Cat is Out of the Bag

the cat was never quite in the bag to begin with.

Although I am a strong and staunch supported of General Musharraf and Shaukat Aziz, I believe this is one decision which will not augur well for this nation. General Musharraf is about to commit his second blunder (first being the farcical referendum).

Without any further ado, Musharraf needs to step up and show to all of us that he is different - different from all military rulers and different from all previous stake-holders. It is an opportunity of a life-time for Musharraf to show to the world that he credulous a person and someone who has no personal motives ...

Come on General...YOU CAN DO IT!

``But what about the prospects of “democracy” in Pakistan?``

None! under Musharaf or in near or even in distant future.
The promise to take off the Wardi was, what it was; a promise! He will take it off when he is some day booted out.
Generals have learned a lesson from the downfall of Ayub Khan; you don`t take the uniform off no matter what or the guy you promoted to take your place in the army, the COAS, will skin you and sent you to Rehana and in Mushy`s case probably to Delhi. The MQM in Karachi is so pissed that they wont let him live in Karachi. Gujranwala is now controlled by Hafiz Saeed of the Al Hashish terrorist outfit fame.
So what is best for Mushy: keep the uniform or live in Delhi?

That was for Sunday. Will discuss it later after the hangover from last night is over.

//...Come on General...YOU CAN DO IT! ...//

No he can`t!! Don`t kid yourself.

I was really surprised when Mushy made that promise last year. And there is no chance he is going to keep that promise. That`s just suicide. Without his uniform - mushy is nothing.

The real power in pakistan was always tied to the uniform and will remain so as long as pakis keep looking up to the man on white-horse.

This would please only his lackies whereas his sincere supporters would be extremely disappointed. Let us hope, even against hope, that it might be only a gimmick to reach safely to the expiry date as to allow him time to manouver his safe retreat as he did by bringing in SA, etc.. After all he is a Commando.

As for democracy we cannot import it from Britain or America. The best we could have was Bhutto brand or Nawaz brand. The available on the ground are Jamali, Shujaat, SA brands, all licking the boots of wady or the MMA type holding the sword of LOB on your head.

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#6 by arjun_m on September 19, 2004 5:50pm PT

As per the very personal statistical survey done by his personal staff at the gun point 99.9 percent of the civilians want him around!!

Mush is actually a tin can which has a ``never expires`` label on it!!!

Where is Romair?

Cat may be out of the bag, but billa is still in vardi.:)

I don`t think anybody in the world other than Pakis believed Musharraf had taken over Pakistan to save it from Nawaz Sharif`s corrupt regime. I`m now shocked to see some Pakis condemning Musharraf for seeking to perpetuate his rule. The scenes of jubilation witnessed when Nawaz fell was a sight to watch and would have led anyone to believe that Pakis were rooting for Musharraf to be the life-time ruler of Pakistan, as if he was the manna from heaven, the panacea to all of Pakistan`s ailments. If a country could rejoice at an blatantly unconstitutional takeover then, why should it complain now, when that move has only been made permanent?

Call a spade a spade. Pakistan is under the rule of the Army. That is known as martial law. You can call yourself chief executive or president by decree but you cant give up the source of your power!

The very essence of any democratic system is the ability of a smooth transfer of power in accordance with the wishes of the people determined in a transparent and non coercive manner. In Musharrafs Pakistan this is certainly not the case. When power is concentrated in the hands of one individual who nominates and manouvers his lackeys into so called positions of power whom he can change at the drop of a hat then by no stretch of imagination is that system democratic. Past experience of Pakistan is that when such power has been concentrated in the hands the army, nothing short of major catastrophe for Pakistan is the result. I just hope and pray that we find a way out of this dead end street which leaves Pakistan intact but I fear we are headed for major in thge days ahead. If Musharraf is a patriot he can start by letting go of the uniform and by holding fair and free elections. I for one will support him should he choose to follow a path to normalcy.

Assasin,
I couldnt agree with you more. I too am (sorry fellow chowkees but I have to say it) - a staunch supporter of our General/President.
In many conversations I have had with people of all classes (i try to take every oppurtunity, in a cab, in a shop, at a discussion) to ask people one on one if they do support Musharraf and his policies.
99% of people I have met actually do, but do express grievances on two regards,
1. the foreign policy
2. the relationship with America.
There is a great suspicion and anxiety that Mr. Musharraf is a puppet of the States - most argue that he is - and the reason this worries them is that if he falls from grace with the master, then they will be quick to remove him and the instability will return.
Mr. Musharraf needs to use his time wisely and establish our govt. with the reforms he has introduced in his tenure. He needs to create a system of checks and balances and stop this current monopoly of social engineering.
I think Shaukat Aziz and Musharraf have a lot of good to offer this country, - but I agree with Naeem - this autocratic and fake democracy just lowers public opinion and creates distrust.
What was done in 99 cannot be undone, but Musharraf can create his legacy by establishing a better govt. for us all.
Good luck General Musharraf!

A summit is held on board AirForce One and the plane gets caught in a hurricane. The pilot announces that the only way to survive this hurrican is that some of the load is taken off this plane; some people should have to sacrifice and jump out of the plane to save the lives of others. As the French president hears this he cries ``Viva la Republique`` and jumps out. The pilot announces that plane was still heavy. At this the German Chancelor cries ``Hail Fatherland` and jumps out. Pilot says it was still heavy. President Bush gets up from his seat, cries ``God Bless America`` and throws Mexican president out of the plane. Now there are only two people left in the plane - Bush and Musharaf. Bush shrugs and says ``I ain`t jumping; I have been `selected` by people to stay``. Mushsraf shrugs too and says ``I ain`t jumping either, 96% people on this plane say that I should stay``.

After November 2, 2004, the issue will be settled, whether Musharraf keeps his uniform or not.

Ciao

I can`t understand the extent of hypocrisy and stupidity of seemingly intelligent and educated people here. I can`t believe that some Pakistani people here think of themselves above the constitution of Pakistan. What is the point of the constitution if everybody makes up mind while completely disregarding the constitution. There, in fact, no difference remains between soldiers of god - radical fundamentalists and musharraf supporters, as far as disregarding the contitution of Pakistan.

Now some of them are feeling regret or disappointment about uniform issue. He took the oath of defending the nation according to the constitution and reneged; he was fired from his job according to the costitution and he refused; he overthrew constitutional government, strangulated supreme court of Pakistan, forced lawful president to resign in order to accumulate further power; he manipulated political process and rigged elections after farcical referendum. This is his resume. Didn`t these Musharraf supporters and MMA know of his track record before jumping on his bandwagon and making deal with him on uniform respectively? The fact is that MMA enjoys much more power in the form of large number of seats in the National Assembly, Senate, two provincial governments and several mayoral positions including that of the largest metropolitan area - Karachi. So what is new about uniform issue knowing Musharraf?

I believe that MMA still prefers military rule over BB or NS because they will defintely lose most of the clout if elections are held fairly and a civilian government is lawfully installed.

According to the constitution, Musharraf is neither COAS, nor president but a criminal; the constitutional amendments and supreme court decisions are postscripts. A crime comitted in 1999 is to be judged according to the existing law; a criminal can not amend the law in 2004 to exonerate himself of all crimes.

How can a Musharraf supporter justify punishing any criminal in Pakistan??? How can a Musharraf supporter criticize any interpretation of hadees or quran, done by any person, any sect, non-muslim or anti-muslim, after believing and dancing over the arbitrary interpretation of constitution and unlawfully making amendments? What principle guides these unprincipled when they call USA invasion of Iraq unlawful? Shame on them for being such a hypocrite!

The question is not about popularity even if one believes that 96 percent people actually like him; the question is not whether a taxi driver in Lalukhet is happy with the way Musharraf speaks or acts; the question is: will Pakistan uphold the supremacy of the most sacred law of the land and will Pakistanis have principles to call a spade a spade even if forex reserves are above 10 billion dollars? But then, 96 percent of Pakistanis like Musharraf and 65 percent of Pakistanis sympathize with Osama Bin Laden clearly suggesting that either half the people like both of them or these numbers are nothing but a farce. Go figure!

urstruly # 16 - good one!

When Musharraf completed 5 years of his rule over Pakistan, he wanted a special postage stamp issued, with his picture on it of course. He so instructed the Postmaster General, stressing that it should be of international quality. The stamps were duly released. But then he began hearing complaints that the stamp was not sticking properly, and become furious. He called the chief of the ISI and ordered him to investigate the matter. The chief checked the matter out at several post offices, and then reported on the problem to Musharraf. He said:``Sir, the stamp is really of international quality. The problem is, our citizens are spitting on the wrong side!``

#18 by sameerJB
“What is the point of the constitution if everybody makes up mind while completely disregarding the constitution.”

So Pakistan does have a constitution? That’s news for me. You can have only one thing: the army rule or the constitution. Since 96% of Pakistanis have allegedly asked Mushy babe to stay on, the constitution has effectively been sent to the recycle bin. Either this Bin is going to be emptied out or some day somebody would restore it. What are the odds of restoration of the constitution: 4%, as 96% support mushy babe.
I think Sameer, invoking constitution appears to be the most legal thing to do but the reality is that we don’t have a constitution. What we have now is a piece of paper that is being amended by the army as and when it pleases.
Even if there was a constitution, the mechanism to enforce its clauses that deal with treason does not exist.

So here is my plan to bring democracy in Pakistan.

We know that the Pak Army believes that what is good for India- is NOT good for Pakistan.
Now India has democracy and Pakistan does not and based on the army logic above democracy is not good for Pakistan because it is good for India.
I suggest that we ask the Indian army to takeover in India and end the democracy there. If that happens and the Indian army is ready to oblige Pakistanis, it may go ahead and open the door for democracy in Pakistan.
Once the Pak army finds out that India has abandoned democracy, they may think that democracy is GOOD for Pakistan and may be ENFORCE it in Pakistan with a Martial Law regulation.
In that case, mushy would run for elections for a seat in Parliament. His natural constituency is in Karachi and that too probably Lalokhet.
The problem is that MQM won’t give up that seat and support some Natho khan Pelibhait wala to run against Mushy. We know what the result would be. 96% of people from Lalokhet would vote for Natho Khan Pelibhait wala and 4% would vote for mushy as Altaf bhai said to vote for Natho Khan Pelibhait wala. (He sells cooking oil in Lalokhet.)

So our first step is to write a petition to the Indian Army to takeover in India. After that restoration of democracy in India would be an India problem and Modi probably would find several thousand Muslims to sacrifice their lives for democracy and secularism in India. But in Pakistani will have democracy.
I am setting up a petition to the Indian Army at the petition.com and you will have a link to that petition soon.
Mohar and Arjun.! Any thoughts?

sameerjb #18: That was a concise and to the point post regarding the fundamentals of pakistani politics.

In my humble opinion, citizens of Pakistan should simply turn over the country to Fouji Foundation, sit back, relax and enjoy the show.
As for the constitution - we lived without one for a fairly long time and perhaps can live even more comfortably without the one that rarely leaves the Frankenstein`s repair shop.

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HP # 22

May I make a `serious` point?` :)

One of the greatest hindrances to democracy finding roots in Pakistan HAS BEEN India`s attempts to develop as a democracy. Would you agree?

HP

Sure - give it a shot - send in your petition to Indian Army Chief. I don`t even know who Army Chief is right now. I think they were going create a new super chief called CDS (Chief of Defence Staff) or something - who was supposed to supercede Army Chief. I don`t know what happned to that plan.

Anyway - Paki Army has tasted blood and power and pelf for too long. So no matter what you do - they are not going to let go. So you are out of luck there.

#24 by Ralph

Ralph-
What makes you think I am not serious? You see that is the problem. People don’t take any idea for democracy in Pakistan seriously!

“One of the greatest hindrances to democracy finding roots in Pakistan HAS BEEN India`s attempts to develop as a democracy”

Why do you think I am soliciting the Indian Army help? Think and look deep. Deep thoughts…

Excellent article Mr. Naeem. I can`t agree with you more. It`s actually quite sad that those who claim to be saviors of our land, who vow to revolutionize the state structure all for ``national interest``, go right out and shatter all hope, for how can you possibly trust your leader if he doesn`t believe in keeping his word. It is nauseating to see Shaukat Aziz encouraging his mentor and speaking his language. Let the nation decide what they want for once. Stop making decisions for us... but hey! Who cares right? Definitely not our ``honorable men``!

Mohar11

Pakistan will have a democracy within five years of India giving up on it..... :(

#22 by HP
You say:
``Now India has democracy and Pakistan does not and based on the army logic above democracy is not good for Pakistan because it is good for India....``

I think your very assumption is wrong. India definitely thinks Kashmir is good for her. If what u say were true, Pak Army should think Kashmir is not good for Pak and should stop salivating at Kashmir.
Anyway, democrazy will never come to Pak as long as they have this nonsensical idea of trying to achieve parity.
Sridhar

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Can anybody explain this!

India`s railway minister says the Hindu god of machines is responsible for lowering the railroad accident rate in India

Laloo Prasad Yadav said the number of train accidents had declined since he installed a ``bright new photo`` of the god Vishwakarma in his New Delhi office.

Is India back in the dark ages!

let`s see -- what Qazi of Adaalat-e Munafeqeen -- does about the about-face of his NWFP benefactor........

nu paye maNdan nu jaye ruftun........

Question: why Musharaf is afraid of losing the uniform? -- and what he is afraid of? -- of another `Constitutional` Coup d`etat by another ASS of a COAS....?

as claimed by the General himself -- every time a coup occurs the country benefits -- so why shouldn`t there be another coup d`etat -- by another General -- may be the things will improve further... ......and further....and further

so much so -- that one day Pakistan could become even more developed than Burma/Myanmar.....

HP # 22

There is this amusing anecdote about Indira Gandhi`s constant fear of a military takeover. I think it was right after the `71 war. The then Army Chief (Field Marshal?) Sam Maneckshaw was at IG`s residence, when she told him that she had heard rumors that the Army was planning a coup, and if it was indeed so. The no-nonsense Army chief replied, ``You keep your nose out of the Army, and I`ll keep my nose out of politics``.

Goes to show the scrupulousness of the Indian Army that has consistently resisted the temptation to fish in the murky waters of Indian politics.

#32 by Soulat on September 20, 2004 11:13pm PT
Can anybody explain this!

Come on let us not stoop to this level!!

It is a manner of speaking like the land of pure was given by the almighty...................(although the dirty work was done by ordinary mortals).

#32 by Soulat
//...Is India back in the dark ages! ...//

Not yet. But it`s getting there. All it needs is a few more Laloos. With commies tightening the noose around investment and Laloos becoming ``managers`` of the ``Modern India`` - the day is not far. We already have newspapers and opinion-makers cooing in ecstasy at the possibility of Laloo becoming prime minister of the La-La land, otherwise known as India.

In the mean time - South China is running out of people to work in their factories. Chenese are hosting the next olympics which is billed as the biggest ``coming out`` party the world has ever seen.

Dark ages??? It`s going to be worse than that, economically speaking.

Sridhar #22

IMHO, parity isn`t the main issue here. It`s one of reasoning and shaped perceptions.

Indian democracy is flawed, and will continue to be so for many years to come. It can only be justified in India if we give it its proper due -- that is, along with its failures, also recognize its successes.

In Pakistani context, it`s much easier to highlight and magnify India`s (and by implication - Indian democracy`s) social failures than to recognize its social successes. That isn`t the case so much with capitalism or `economic reform` since economic measures are harder to dismiss.

So, the argument goes: Indian democracy has failed (assumption). So democracy couldn`t be all that it is cracked up to be by its supporters (conclusion). Therefore, stop talking about `democracy.` (Instruction)

To make it more interesting, throw in words like `western`, `indigenous,` `Islamic` `bootlicker,` `Quran,` `imperialism`, and you complete popular innoculation against anything except at best, possibly ``Islamic democracy`` (whatever the hell that means!).

#35 by harish_hyd
Harish,

``You keep your nose out of the Army, and I`ll keep my nose out of politics``. -Sam Maneckshaw

First this exchange actually happened right before the emergency as Sam Maneckshaw was not the CnC right after 71.

I think this is just a cruel anecdote- cruel on Sam Maneckshaw, unless you are just paraphrasing.
Why do I say so? I don’t think he was an idiot to respond to the PM of India in such a way and if he did then Mrs. Gandhi should have fired him for being out of line and for insubordination. An Army General cannot tell the PM of India to keep her butt/nose out of the army. The Indian PM has to keep her/his butt and nose both into the army all the time or the army would lose the funding that they desperately need all the time. Especially in the mid 70s when the politicians in India were not under pressure to maintain military funding in view of the reduced Pakistani threat and no issues in Kashmir.
Now Generals don’t become general because they are idiots. They become generals because they are the few smartest in the whole army and they know how to answer question smartly and diplomatically. In other words, they have learnt to be master brown nose and butt kissers.

He may be a general but Mrs. Gandhi was a politician and as I recall reading the whole episode correctly, she was probing to find out what army was going to do after the rumors of army takeover were ripe in the wake of the court decision against Mrs. Gandhi.

Immediately after this alleged-anecdotal- conversation Mrs. Gandhi declared emergency in India.
So actually Sam Maneckshaw was an idiot to respond in such a way, if he did, to help Mrs. Gandhi make a decision that she knew the army would not oppose.
Do you believe that he was an idiot to say such an outrageous thing OR he may have said something else and later on to save his skin this story was made up by whosoever?

I hope we can talk about it, w/o bringing India-pak relations into it.


Rsridhar,

“India definitely thinks Kashmir is good for her.”

You got it all wrong it is not WHAT India thinks, it is what the Pak army thinks and the Pak army thinks that Kashmir is wrong for India. So it is…

Saulat #32

It seems Lallo is trying to turn the country into a theocracy! Now, everyone may be required to install the picture of whatever god that is, and pray to him/her :(

#39 by HP

Well - from what I know - Sam Maneckshaw was very popular at that time and Indira was very apprehensive. I won`t be surprised if the general said what he said - because he knew he could get away with it. What would Indira do - fire the most decorated general??? She wasn`t that stupid.

HP #39,
``First this exchange actually happened right before the emergency as Sam Maneckshaw was not the CnC right after 71. ``
Sam Maneckshaw was never CnC. In India, President is CnC. Sam Maneckshaw was COAS and later chairman, chief of staff committee.
Sam Manecksaw was COAS from 07 June 1969 till 15 Jan 1973. Emergency got declared on June 26, 1975.

An excerpt from Sam Bahadur`s biography is posted at http://www.thehindu.com/thehindu/2003/04/04/stories/2003040403741300.htm

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#41 by friend #40 by mohar11

http://www.thehindu.com/thehindu/2003/04/04/stories/2003040403741300.htm
“Though refusing to elaborate to newsmen here this evening, the Field Marshal in the film said that when Indira Gandhi asked him he had replied ``Madam Prime Minister, don`t you think I would not prove to be a worthy replacement,`` as he asserted that there was no move by the Army to stage a coup.”

Now that is an entirely different quote than what Harish reproduced.

“Madam Prime Minister, don`t you think I would not prove to be a worthy replacement,``

This is more in line with what a General would say to the PM.

Now I think Gen. Maneckshaw was commander Eastern sector from 1969 to 1973 and that’s why he was the hero of the 71 war. I don’t think he was the COAS as friend has pointed out at that time.
I think we need to research it a little bit more. He became COAS after his assignment at the eastern command was over.
Clearly, I was under the wrong impression that conversation between him and Mrs. Gandhi took place right before the emergency.

#42

How does it matter what you THINK?

The FACT remains that Field Marshal S.H.F.J. Manekshaw, Padma Vibhushan, Padma Bushan, MC was COAS, between 07 June 1969 - 15 Jan 1973.

For those blundering on and on and on and on about Field Marshal Manekshaw:

A capsule sketch of his military career (giving an overall chronology, omitting the controversial bits) and some more material.

Now we have rats coming out of their holes to show how good they are at roaming in the sewer pipes of the web. I knew it will be a matter of time before rodents would raise their ugly heads from the septic tanks to show their cheap prowess in searching the web after filling the cooler at the gas station.

#39 by HP

Here is the conversation. I have pasted the excerpt I was talking about, but you can read the entire conversation for yourself.

Indira feared Manekshaw would stage a coup

The former army chief said he related a ``little jingle`` to the prime minister, ``you mind your own business and I`ll mind mine. You kiss your own sweetheart and I`ll kiss mine. I don`t interfere politically as long as nobody interferes with me in the army``.

#32 by Soulat

[Is India back in the dark ages!]

It isn`t! But Pakiland sure is, what with some scientists having calculated the distance between earth and hell (or was it heaven?) and some having postulated theories about how energy extracted from djinns can be used to save Pakistan from energy crises in the future.

#39 by HP

[An Army General cannot tell the PM of India to keep her butt/nose out of the army.]

Sam Manekshaw was a larger than life figure those days, after the resounding success he had with the Bangladesh war. IG was apprehensive that the Army, flush with its success might want to dabble in politics, which is why she asked him that question. Throughout his career, Manekshaw was regarded as a blunt, no-nonsense, and in-your-face sort of a guy who held his integrity and principles above everything else, so even if we go purely by his personality, it is entirely possible that he could have replied to IG`s question that way. That he did is proof enough. I read that anecdote in a print magazine, but I`m sure I`ll find it somewhere on the web and try to reproduce it here.

[The Indian PM has to keep her/his butt and nose both into the army all the time or the army would lose the funding that they desperately need all the time.]

I don`t think nobody, not even Manekshaw will dispute that, but I think he was referring more to her attempts to interfere in the appointments and promotions in the Army, for which she was notorious then.

#36 by mohar11

You had asked me on the Jinnah board if Jinnah had indeed admitted during his last days that Pakistan was his biggest mistake. Yes, he did. For now, I have this:

http://www.angelfire.com/pa2/humPakistan/focus4.html

Excerpt:

``It was never proven that Jinnah`s intentions of a United India ever changed since there is conflicting evidence about his personal opinions on this matter. His Personal Secretary has made this statement earlier that ``On his death bed, Jinnah confessed that Pakistan was his biggest mistake in life``.``

Harish,

It appear from this article that the conversation happened in sometime in 1970.
http://www.indianexpress.com/ie/daily/19990802/ige02088.html
“In 1970, then Prime Minister Indira Gandhi`s worst fear was that Field Marshal Sam Manekshaw would stage a coup and take over the reins of the country from her. This startling revelation was made by the 85-year-old former Army chief on Karan Thapar`s programme Face-to-Face on BBC Television”

Now this is different in the Hindu and I quote here.(from friend)
http://www.thehindu.com/thehindu/2003/04/04/stories/2003040403741300.htm
“Though refusing to elaborate to newsmen here this evening, the Field Marshal in the film said that when Indira Gandhi asked him he had replied ``Madam Prime Minister, don`t you think I would not prove to be a worthy replacement,`` as he asserted that there was no move by the Army to stage a coup.”

They both appear to be direct quotes from him. One quotes about 1971 and the other puts the timeframe on 1970 before the 71 war.

I think that Indian Express dates are mixed up as Manekshaw was not larger than life in 1970 but after 1971, he certainly was.
Thanks for your input and I think there is no doubt that he is a great Indian Army General who kept his head in place after such a masterful victory. He must be praised especially when we look at the pigmies in Islamabad who should be whipped publicly for their misadventures.

#50 by HP

[Thanks for your input and I think there is no doubt that he is a great Indian Army General who kept his head in place after such a masterful victory. He must be praised especially when we look at the pigmies in Islamabad who should be whipped publicly for their misadventures.]

Very true! Sam Manekshaw is well and truly one of the greatest sons India has produced. Thanks to you too for the enlightening discussion!

Hmmm,

Must have hit a nerve. You see, the fun is in the bang for the buck ratio. Two sentences from me sent the gasbag into a stream of invectives...

#53
It is good that you saw the mirror in post #46. But it was meant for another A-hole who has learnt to use the search Engines on the web and considers that one of his major achievements in life barring the ultimate pleasure he gets from filling the coolers at the gas station as his permanent livelihood.

#54

Based on the depth of knowledge exhibited by him/her on many subjects and based on the depth of your `Knowledge` -- if you can call it that -- it is safe to say he/she has probably forgotten more than you will ever learn in your entire lifetime....

Now go buy yourself a clue.....

This article remind me about “Tom and Jerry” cartoons movie. Tom was very naughty and evil character but he could not die, and Jerry was to be his victim. I just imagine what will happen if Tom and Jerry understand about demo’crazy’ ..ops I mean democracy? Probably they would like to sit together in a cheese’s party and talk about democracy as an aristocracy of blackguards….wow its seem very dangerous, that why Tom don’t want to do it. He fears a new experience more than anything because a new experience displaces so many old experiences included to be powerful in authority. Mr. Musharraf, is it right?

guys democracy can be fun, you should try it (tell mushy).
recently, the police in mumbai got pushed by the politicians to bring the danda to ``dance bars``. the politicians thought this would be a nice move in face of upcoming erections.

thanks to democracy, mumbai style, there was a 10000 women march to the vidhan sabha (funded by the bar owners association) protesting police actions, and a litigation in courts. bar-owners won the court case, and dancing girls apparently won public opinion making a case for their livelihood. (many of them apparently claim to work for call centers).

now is this not fun?

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An aristocracy of blackguards!...
wow! White Orchid, u have got it nailed

What is the constitution of Pakistan? The only thing sacred and permanent in it is the `Fatwa` against Ahmadies which even Musharraf could not suspend.