Train from Pakistan, 2004: The Return
Veeresh Malik October 20, 2004
#219 Posted by sadna on October 24, 2004 12:50:11 pm
harimau #198
Actually Chennai is not a fair comparison as it is a port city. Neither is Bangalore(IMO) because Bangalore was strong in government r&d long before the IT boom- it might be the same with Lahore or it might not because Lahore has always been within striking distance of the enemy.
Actually Chennai is not a fair comparison as it is a port city. Neither is Bangalore(IMO) because Bangalore was strong in government r&d long before the IT boom- it might be the same with Lahore or it might not because Lahore has always been within striking distance of the enemy.
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#218 Posted by mohar11 on October 24, 2004 12:50:11 pm
salim
//..The Government in Pakistan is responsible for the safety of ALL of its citizens and has failed dismally in this duty. ...//
That`s an understatement. The ``gov`t of pakistan`` has created/supported/trained/moralized hundreds of terrorists that have massacred thousands of hindus, muslims in Kashmir ( as they have elsewhere in the world ). Your gov`t of pakistan is a criminal enterprise and evil-incarnate.
And despite that - thousands of the travellers, hindus and muslims, have travelled to pakiland.
If you are apprehensive about Modi - then don`t go to Gujrat. Go somewhere else - go to Bangalore, or Chennai, or Delhi - India is very big ...... Don`t just sit there and whine about being part of ``persecuted minority`` or whatever. Jeez. [ Is whining comes as part of paki territory .. or what ?]
//..The Government in Pakistan is responsible for the safety of ALL of its citizens and has failed dismally in this duty. ...//
That`s an understatement. The ``gov`t of pakistan`` has created/supported/trained/moralized hundreds of terrorists that have massacred thousands of hindus, muslims in Kashmir ( as they have elsewhere in the world ). Your gov`t of pakistan is a criminal enterprise and evil-incarnate.
And despite that - thousands of the travellers, hindus and muslims, have travelled to pakiland.
If you are apprehensive about Modi - then don`t go to Gujrat. Go somewhere else - go to Bangalore, or Chennai, or Delhi - India is very big ...... Don`t just sit there and whine about being part of ``persecuted minority`` or whatever. Jeez. [ Is whining comes as part of paki territory .. or what ?]
#217 Posted by tahmed32 on October 24, 2004 12:50:11 pm
veeresh #199 I am glad you finally took note of the hindu terrorists of Gujerat - that is one small step for a normal man, one giant step for a ``holier than thou`` Indian.
As for people having certain rights in India which I would not understand (of course, how could I? ha! ha!), those rights clearly include in practice the right to send mobs to destroy mosques (as in case of advani) and then be rewarded for this courageous deed in the name of hinduism by becoming the number two man in the country. These rights also the right to burn families in their homes in the name of hindu nationalism (as in case of Modi) as a career move and get re-elected as chief minister. You are right sir, I fail to understand the workings of the Indian Democracy.
btw, hope you enjoyed that picture I submitted in #197 to back your claim that the Indian army liberated Lahore from the evil Pakistanis in 1971. You could at least thank me for supporting your revision of history.
You keep writing on chowk, and I have no doubt that you will be first in line to be the next Information Minister of India. You could then continue your noble task of revising history, and also tell us about how the Indian Army liberated Paris in 1944. I will, as I did in #197, supply the pictures to back your claims. ha! ha!
As for people having certain rights in India which I would not understand (of course, how could I? ha! ha!), those rights clearly include in practice the right to send mobs to destroy mosques (as in case of advani) and then be rewarded for this courageous deed in the name of hinduism by becoming the number two man in the country. These rights also the right to burn families in their homes in the name of hindu nationalism (as in case of Modi) as a career move and get re-elected as chief minister. You are right sir, I fail to understand the workings of the Indian Democracy.
btw, hope you enjoyed that picture I submitted in #197 to back your claim that the Indian army liberated Lahore from the evil Pakistanis in 1971. You could at least thank me for supporting your revision of history.
You keep writing on chowk, and I have no doubt that you will be first in line to be the next Information Minister of India. You could then continue your noble task of revising history, and also tell us about how the Indian Army liberated Paris in 1944. I will, as I did in #197, supply the pictures to back your claims. ha! ha!
#216 Posted by hamidm2 on October 24, 2004 12:50:11 pm
vereesh, stop making a fool out of yourself !
...........so you didn`t see any pharmacies/chemists in `Pindi`` ??...........i am not that familiar with chemists in lahore, but i can take you street by street, mohalla by mohalla, bazaar by bazaar in pindi and show you that we probably have too many chemists !..........every little bazaar with forty-fifty stores has at least two or three chemists - sure they are small stores compared to watson and wilson, but they carry every thing from antibiotics to viagra .............. and this is in addition to the general stores that also sell medicines and the concentration of chemists that crowd ``specialty`` bazaars like bohr bazaar, the areas across from the hospitals, haathi chowk, college road, etc etc .......
........... i guarantee you that abdul does not have to walk more than a mile or two to get to a chemist ............. the big question is whether the medicines they sell are ``number one`` and whether abdul can afford a full dose of antibiotics or malaria medication .............. that is another story
.......... so if you didn`t see any chemists in pindi it must be because of the cataracts caused by extreme prejudice
...........so you didn`t see any pharmacies/chemists in `Pindi`` ??...........i am not that familiar with chemists in lahore, but i can take you street by street, mohalla by mohalla, bazaar by bazaar in pindi and show you that we probably have too many chemists !..........every little bazaar with forty-fifty stores has at least two or three chemists - sure they are small stores compared to watson and wilson, but they carry every thing from antibiotics to viagra .............. and this is in addition to the general stores that also sell medicines and the concentration of chemists that crowd ``specialty`` bazaars like bohr bazaar, the areas across from the hospitals, haathi chowk, college road, etc etc .......
........... i guarantee you that abdul does not have to walk more than a mile or two to get to a chemist ............. the big question is whether the medicines they sell are ``number one`` and whether abdul can afford a full dose of antibiotics or malaria medication .............. that is another story
.......... so if you didn`t see any chemists in pindi it must be because of the cataracts caused by extreme prejudice
#215 Posted by rsridhar on October 24, 2004 12:48:45 pm
re:#193 by Mantolives
Why bring in someone`s personal life here? IF u have problems with what Veeresh wrote, contradict it logically with facts. I did not know u could stoop to this level.
Sridhar
Why bring in someone`s personal life here? IF u have problems with what Veeresh wrote, contradict it logically with facts. I did not know u could stoop to this level.
Sridhar
#214 Posted by rajsinghi1 on October 24, 2004 12:48:45 pm
Veeresh
Post#199
Quote:
`` I actually took the trouble to analyse this low-circulation low-ad revenue stream newspaper cost thing in Pakistan, by looking for paralels within the vernacular media in India. (where also 20-page broadsheets go for 2-3 rupees and 100+ page full colour magazines sell for 10 max 15 rupees, and that`s using reasonably decent quality paper as well as quality machinery.) ``
Few things here...
It is possible that newsprint in Pakistan is more expensive than India. Perhaps, you may know more on this or Omar can shed some light on this (I myself can find out without much problem but I would have spend some time on it. :) ) Second, given that overall salaries in Pakistan are higher (at least that used to be the case) than India so their production cost would be high. Buying technology in or for Pakistan would be more expensive. These are some of the factors that come to mind, from the top of head. :) Since India has or at least used to have quota for newsprint (on subsidised rates?)so am not sure how comparing with Indian papers will shed some light on the subject (a side question here to you...how come Asian Age has been surviving for so long, without much advertisements?). As I recall, even without any restrictions like newsprint or higher production costs, owners (grand parents of current owners)papers like Washington Post had consistently lost money for over 10 years.
Quote:
`` My take is that the baba-log/baby-log Gul-burger lot, would rather keep their people in the dark, so what better way than to keep the media expensive?``
That could be one of the factors undeniably but cannot be a major factor. It is not as if there is a conspiracy among Pakistani elite to deliberately bleed Pakistanis all the way and make them poorest of the poor. It is more on the lines of having and believing different priorties.
Look at their economic growth figures since the creation of Pakistan. Most of the figures have been deceptive. They talk about 5/6% growth but that growth also has been on the lines of today. Just as today US pumping in money and economy growing. In the past also, US has been providing aid in one form or another (I need to check figures on all this). Even in literacy side, figures have not been that promising. And that goes for the poverty level too. So saying that Pakistani elite is playing deliberate role in keeping the prices high of papers and magazines, if not simplifiying things, would be incomplete picture. For, there are many other factors too, which can, and do affect these things.
Quote:
`` A lot is made here about my being ``anti-??``.``
Those who say you are anti Pakistan, I would say, they have pretty limited experience of internet and/or understanding of the issue. :) They should visit some other forums at the net too and see how Pakistan gets bashed 365/24/7, by some Indians. I don`t think they will be able to stand/participate there for even 20 minutes. Because those guys will come down on a Pakistani like ton of bricks, once it is known that a participant is Pakistani, and trying to put across a pov, which relates to Pakistan/India.
Since we are on this topic so let me add here that at times (at times) you appear to come out more as bleeding heart than an anti Pakistan. Next/following sententce/quote from your post should make this more clear...:)
Quote:
`` Let me place one more thing on the monitor then - if patriotism implies a love for the lands of your father, where does that put me? ``
Quote:
`` A bit difficult to understand, but look at it from the point of view that a large percentage of Pakistanis tend to agree with what I say/write.``
If you are sure of your facts, perceptions, and nothing has been presented in response, to alter those facts and perceptions and impressions, how does it matter whether Pakistanis agree or not agree with what you have written or writing? It is good that they agree and that confirms to you your own perceptions/impresions but that alone should not be the barometer. You saw, what you saw .....:)
Post#199
Quote:
`` I actually took the trouble to analyse this low-circulation low-ad revenue stream newspaper cost thing in Pakistan, by looking for paralels within the vernacular media in India. (where also 20-page broadsheets go for 2-3 rupees and 100+ page full colour magazines sell for 10 max 15 rupees, and that`s using reasonably decent quality paper as well as quality machinery.) ``
Few things here...
It is possible that newsprint in Pakistan is more expensive than India. Perhaps, you may know more on this or Omar can shed some light on this (I myself can find out without much problem but I would have spend some time on it. :) ) Second, given that overall salaries in Pakistan are higher (at least that used to be the case) than India so their production cost would be high. Buying technology in or for Pakistan would be more expensive. These are some of the factors that come to mind, from the top of head. :) Since India has or at least used to have quota for newsprint (on subsidised rates?)so am not sure how comparing with Indian papers will shed some light on the subject (a side question here to you...how come Asian Age has been surviving for so long, without much advertisements?). As I recall, even without any restrictions like newsprint or higher production costs, owners (grand parents of current owners)papers like Washington Post had consistently lost money for over 10 years.
Quote:
`` My take is that the baba-log/baby-log Gul-burger lot, would rather keep their people in the dark, so what better way than to keep the media expensive?``
That could be one of the factors undeniably but cannot be a major factor. It is not as if there is a conspiracy among Pakistani elite to deliberately bleed Pakistanis all the way and make them poorest of the poor. It is more on the lines of having and believing different priorties.
Look at their economic growth figures since the creation of Pakistan. Most of the figures have been deceptive. They talk about 5/6% growth but that growth also has been on the lines of today. Just as today US pumping in money and economy growing. In the past also, US has been providing aid in one form or another (I need to check figures on all this). Even in literacy side, figures have not been that promising. And that goes for the poverty level too. So saying that Pakistani elite is playing deliberate role in keeping the prices high of papers and magazines, if not simplifiying things, would be incomplete picture. For, there are many other factors too, which can, and do affect these things.
Quote:
`` A lot is made here about my being ``anti-??``.``
Those who say you are anti Pakistan, I would say, they have pretty limited experience of internet and/or understanding of the issue. :) They should visit some other forums at the net too and see how Pakistan gets bashed 365/24/7, by some Indians. I don`t think they will be able to stand/participate there for even 20 minutes. Because those guys will come down on a Pakistani like ton of bricks, once it is known that a participant is Pakistani, and trying to put across a pov, which relates to Pakistan/India.
Since we are on this topic so let me add here that at times (at times) you appear to come out more as bleeding heart than an anti Pakistan. Next/following sententce/quote from your post should make this more clear...:)
Quote:
`` Let me place one more thing on the monitor then - if patriotism implies a love for the lands of your father, where does that put me? ``
Quote:
`` A bit difficult to understand, but look at it from the point of view that a large percentage of Pakistanis tend to agree with what I say/write.``
If you are sure of your facts, perceptions, and nothing has been presented in response, to alter those facts and perceptions and impressions, how does it matter whether Pakistanis agree or not agree with what you have written or writing? It is good that they agree and that confirms to you your own perceptions/impresions but that alone should not be the barometer. You saw, what you saw .....:)
#213 Posted by MantoLives on October 24, 2004 12:48:45 pm
Rajsinghi/Veeresh/Scounderels...
I am not interested in debating with those so blinded with hate and their own bigotry.. I do have a life.... so good night...
I am not interested in debating with those so blinded with hate and their own bigotry.. I do have a life.... so good night...
#212 Posted by MantoLives on October 24, 2004 12:48:45 pm
Veeresh,
You have chosen one word from my post and you are busy deconstructing it...
Pakistan is not perfect... and while some of what you say about the status of minorities and the lack of a proper educational system might be true... but most of your comments are exaggeration and nothing else....
Your observations are neither reasonable nor are your observations realistic... your posts and articles are lies coupled with facts.... nuggets of facts covered with heavy sauce of fiction... faction if you must.
You have chosen one word from my post and you are busy deconstructing it...
Pakistan is not perfect... and while some of what you say about the status of minorities and the lack of a proper educational system might be true... but most of your comments are exaggeration and nothing else....
Your observations are neither reasonable nor are your observations realistic... your posts and articles are lies coupled with facts.... nuggets of facts covered with heavy sauce of fiction... faction if you must.
#211 Posted by MantoLives on October 24, 2004 12:48:45 pm
No its not Cambridge Oxford or Princeton... its Government College Lahore...
#210 Posted by MantoLives on October 24, 2004 12:48:45 pm
An ordinary flyover smack in the middle of Lahore...
#209 Posted by MantoLives on October 24, 2004 12:48:45 pm
Sporting activities/entertainment for the Youth ... in Lahore...
#205 Posted by MantoLives on October 24, 2004 12:48:45 pm
What no Burqahs? Oh are they Gul-Burgers too?
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