The Doll’s House

rajsinghi1:
``if you are interested, will give link of a speech given by SP Mukherjee in the Parliament, in 1952, where he is gunning after Pt Nehru. Even if one discounts 99% of the speech, it still tells us the prevailing environment of that time``
...and how many seats did Mukherjee`s party win in 1952? Remember, that at the time of Gandhi`s death there were at least three major hindu political parties - Hindu Mahasabha, Ram Rajya Parishad and Praja Parishad (Jammu & Kashmir), with the RSS waiting in the wings. By 1952 all these political parties had been practically wiped out and the Jan Sangh spawned by the RSS had to wear a secular mask. Of course, there were still hindu communalists out there but they were politically beaten.
BTW kafir is an islamic term and only muslims can decide who is a kafir, others can only use manmukh, nastik, agnostic, atheist, infidel or some such term.
[this is my last post on this topic!]

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re:Ref hindvi #363
[I have for long preached the same thing in india, that it should unilaterally ease its visa policy with pakistan issuing visas at the border, with a cavity check.....]
Ali is going to like your idea. In fact, if Ali is what i think he is (refer to my previous post to him with Tamil translation of his name), he is going to enjoy cavity checks at the border for free!
Sridhar

harimau: #372 I see that, when presented with a mirror to your face and the true picture of your heroes Modi and Advani, you are reduced to namecalling and writing meaningless cliches. These being the last refuge of the Modiite scoundrel. ha! ha!

Dost Mittar

Post#372

(In the following, You does not mean, you personally.
``Quote:

``You can take my remarks about Bose`s fascination with Hitler as one of educated speculation.``

Sir, you will appreciate that no matter how good or educated a speculation is, it still is a speculation. It is not a fact. Given that you yourself are now admitting that it is a speculation, why then this continued defense of its usage and insistence on using it? Is it that there is so much fascination with the term `fascinate` that it has to be used even when it has been fully shown that it is not applicable in the given context?

Perhaps, easy way out would have been had it been admitted or said that it was used mistakenly and the matter would have ended there itself. But, there is continued defense and insistence on your/writer`s part to use that term. You may or may not realise that you are trying to create another myth. And a myth which has no foundation of truth.

It is good to know that you are Netaji`s fan but that is not a defense or a licence to say things which are not applicable. Suppose, a person is bleeding profusely (cause could be accident or whatever else) on the road or somewhere else. Another person, who is at the same spot and dearly loves the bleeding person, instead of calling for medical attention, which is available close by, just keep on blabbering his/her love for the bleeding person and continue to hold in his/her arms. When asked by the authorities that why the hell that person did not seek medical help/services when these were so readily available? Person replied, ``he could not bear the thought of leaving the bleeding person alone even for a second because he loved the bleeding person.`` Now that is no defense, let me assure you. For, issue is not whether that person loved the bleeding person or not but it is why he did not go for medical services even when these were available and told of its availability.

Btw personally I may not be a huge fan of Netaji Subhas Chandra Bose but that does not mean I do not question, questionable terms attributed to him or about him.

Quote:

`` for example I do not have any problem with muslims calling me a kafir because this is what I am by definition. ``

With respect Sir, you are happy or comfortable with the term Kafir used for yourself, that is fine. You believe, by definition that is what you are, it is fine. But, you cannot impose that belief of yours on others. By saying, ``because this is what I am by definition`` that is what you are doing.

Definition? By whose definition? The definition that you refer to is limited to a particular school of thought (muslims?). There are many other schools of thoughts who do not believe or go by that definition. And they are in huge majority (guess, muslim population in the world is around 1 billion and world population is around 6 billion). Given that that definition is not acceptable and applicable to huge majority of this world, how can you claim that by definition, a person is Kafir ?

Quote:

`` I happen to believe that the Nehru-Congress alliance with muslim obscurantists during the 50s and 60s sowed the seeds for the rise of the hindu communalists who had been practically finished after the assasination of Mahatma Gandhi.``

May I very humbly suggest, read more on the subject.

Very briefly..Hindu communalists were around that time also (if you are interested, will give link of a speech given by SP Mukherjee in the Parliament, in 1952, where he is gunning after Pt Nehru. Even if one discounts 99% of the speech, it still tells us the prevailing environment of that time). Sure they were put down but the thing that you have to keep in mind is that partition was a bloody affair and there was no way people, be it hindus and non hindus could have forgotten the scars so easily and quickly. Generation which had gone thru the horrible experience was very much around and trying to find their feet on the ground in India. Muslims` (in India) situation was more of a defensive so they could not have been ``lulled into``. I already have quoted a letter of Pt Nehru to Shankar Dayal Sharma on small riots in Bhopal, in 1956. Keep in mind the riots of 1969 in Gujrat also. So where and how this lulling come into the play, is very difficult to understand. Specially when reality and evidence tells us otherwise.

If you are looking for real rise in communalism after independence, look more closely at 80s.

Faruk

Post# 374

Quote:

`` I strongly defend the right of this gentleman to make an ass of himself. ``

Assuming above means, gentleman made an ass of himself, I would love to know, how did he do that? What did he say or act in way which was not normal or cannot be explained in a rational way?

#349 by harimau:

Gosh, the arrogance of being able to say that you write the posts with a smile on your face and can see the one at the receiving end ``squirming``! (Would I be able to say this?) I feel like whining real loud now....besides, your post is so literal. For someone who claims to be smiling so much, why did you not see that the whole para was tongue-in-cheek? And, oh no, not the whole world drinks the milk of gau-mata...there is buffalo milk for the desi ghee types, goat`s milk for the Gandhians, camel`s milk for the baby camels (Arabs, according to prevalent belief, drink only slime water that has been rolled in the muck so they can be called slimeballs), and soya milk for those with brittle bones and flexi spines.

Yes, of course, by making beef available, my rights are not being violated. Wasn`t this all I was asking for in this whole article? The right to have a juicy steak? And everytime I enter McDonald`s I create quite a scene by flooding the floor with my tears and ruing the fact that the beef burger has been co-opted by the mainstream. I completely ignore the oink-oink sounds in the background...sure, I am squirming all the time. Anything to make you smile...(so where it the Haj subsidy??)

re: Dost-Mittar

First of all, hope is all well with you sir. Please convey my respects and greetings to I. Ghalib was too optimistic, but even he had a wry sense of politics. :)

re: hamidm2

It seems that way, does it not? lol

re: harimau

It was pure speculation, so please take it as a form of humor and do not anlyze it! :)

Ciao

Re: Farzana # 330

“this young woman or anyone can wear what they want, just as I can, but her father should have seen the stupidity of how he came across…this is what people do to become part of the mainstream.``


I strongly defend the right of this gentleman to make an ass of himself. On second thought he might just be acting out the stereotype to help his daughter.

Regards,

Faruk

re: hindvi #362, 363

You are confusing befriending the Pakistani people with befriending the Pakistani nation…..


Regards,

Faruk

rajsinghi:
You can take my remarks about Bose`s fascination with Hitler as one of educated speculation. They were not meant as a disrespect to Bose whom I do admire greatly, for his courage and audacity; who else could take on the British empire and Gandhi at the same time? To be honest, I do not even know the definition of fascism and whether racist supremacy is an integral part of it. Sometimes, terms assume an aura of hate or love regardless of their original meaning; for example I do not have any problem with muslims calling me a kafir because this is what I am by definition.

Re. the subject of communalism, I did try to expand on my ideas in a chowk article (Two Phases of Indian Secularism). I happen to believe that the Nehru-Congress alliance with muslim obscurantists during the 50s and 60s sowed the seeds for the rise of the hindu communalists who had been practically finished after the assasination of Mahatma Gandhi.

hamidm uncle, worry about shias and christians in pakistan...and why ahmedis need separate passports and why a non-koran worshipper cannot be elected..or wait, why anybody cannot be elected...let the indians worry about their future, which with even all the problems is one with 8% growth (without handouts)...farzana versey is negligible

hindvi,

........... sorry, can`t do that utill we solve the ``core`` issue of kashmir .............. as much as i love western/hindoo bhaigarati, i just don`t see how you can ignore the elephant sitting at the end of the bar ...............

.......... re-writing the koran is an easier option .........

avkrishna #361 yes indeed. :-)

rsaxena,

.......... i would love to defend farzana, who, judging from her ilogs and other musings, is a cool gal, but i just don`t know anything about muslims in india ........... all i know is that the indian muslims i have met in america are quite obnoxious - they tend to be a lot more religious than the average pakistani and have weird gastronomical habits - most pakis are epicures compared to a hyderabadi or malyali .......

........ i don`t have the energy to put on my armor and ride out to defend the lady farzana, but i do wish her well in her battle agianst the horrible hindoos .........................

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