The Doll’s House

can one really be called a journalist if one has no other job due to the poor quality of one`s writing, other than publishing `articles` on chowk to ingratiate fellow ummah members?

Dost mittar which policy institute was this?

rsridhar#326
Where is the inconsistency? Did you think that she sipped tea in the Taj Hotel wearing burqa?

arjun_m:
Nope. I`m not that either...been even called a snake on this website for my opinions.

hindvi:
Thanks for refreshing some old memories. I had read Shirer`s book when it first came out (this damn Internet is taking my books away from me:-)) and your post to Stuka reminded me of some old forgotten passages. I like some of Ashis Nandi`s views, he has come a long way since he and I started our careers as colleagues in a policy institute in Delhi, so have I but only in terms of distance :-). And Seminar was my favourite magazine when I was in India. Founded by Romesh Thapar, I think that it is the best magazine of its type on the subcontinent.

#317 by vertex

[Or long past atrocities are recited and focused on in temples with inciteful speeches towards Muslims.]

Now this is news to me..I`ve been a regular temple-goer for the last 20-odd years. Can you please let me know in which part of India, do temples have recitals about past atrocities, and where Hindus are incited against Muslims?

On the other hand, I`m a regular visitor to the southern Indian shrine of Sabarimala, and legend has it that the deity of Sabarimala, Lord Ayyappa has explicitly stated that anyone who wishes to come to seek his blessings has to first pay his respects to his friend Vavar (a Muslim bandit-turned friend) at a mosque.

#316 by Faruk:

Have responded about Gudiya in several of my posts already. And the other query too, but since someone is trying to transpose it mischeiveously with something I have written elsewhere...let me repost your bit..

[“There is a Star Hunt being conducted on television. One of the finalists is a Muslim girl, who was wearing the most revealing clothes – expanse of bared midriff, backless, cleavage showing and hands and legs visible.”
Now seriously woman how can you have a problem with that!]

This is how I responded in post #108 to another interactor who posed a similar query .
``Read my full quote. My main grouse was that he was being hypocritical because he thought it would sound good. I clearly mention that his wife was sitting right there beside him wearing a sleeveless kameez, so what was this nonsense about not showing nails? I am amazed to read one sensible interactor say that I want to put Muslim women in a straitjacket…please…this young woman or anyone can wear what they want, just as I can, but her father should have seen the stupidity of how he came across…this is what people do to become part of the mainstream.``

Regards...

- - -

Where have I said I love the azaan?? In the article there is mention of going to a convent school and singing catholic hymns, but it sounds nice to brand me with a madrassa education...and then when I am told to seek help, it is with the ray of hope that ISKCON might be able to give me...these are the people who were accusing me of being an Islamist and for proselytising! As I said, crying wolf about ``twisted lies`` in an article that is about perceptions and questions reveals just what I have put across. Ditto for #275 going on and on trying to get people not to react to `such incendiary stuff`, after being among the first to react. Have never heard him complain about any comments made by Hindus on any board that reek of worse stuff. Again proves my point.

I rest my case...

Ref Mullah32 #240

[hindvi #215 It is refreshing to see the direct and honest manner in which you relate the appalling manner in which these poor people were butchered in India. ]

Isn`t it even more refreshing when Mullah Khuda Bux al-Hindvi completely ignores the root cause of the Gujarat riots, viz., the burning to death of Hindu pilgrims? Within a day after Godhra, persons ashamed to have been born Hindus, ``secularists``, Congresswallahs, the Leftists and of course the Muslim Ummah has been completely ignoring the root cause and blaming the Hindus of Gujarat for not sending another 60 or 600 Hindus to be burnt by Islamic thugs.

The world should be most interested in learning how the Indian Railways proposes to tackle the problem that caused Godhra: in the suburban trains serving Mumbai, the singing of Hindu bhajans has been banned according to newspaper reports.

Would anybody ban a single mosque from using loudspeakers for its call to prayer on the basis that it might inflame non-Muslims? If in fact such a ruling were enacted in India, what would be the reaction of Urstruly, _digit, Ali_1, Mullah32 and other admirers of Maulana Khuda Bux al-Hindvi?

I am willing to wait until Hell freezes over for an answer. I probably will have to.

Ref ali_1 #310

[Do you know that in my native Pothowari language, sridhar translates to ``loose stools`` (sri -- stool, dhar -- loose). In the neighboring Hindko region, ``sri`` means ``ass`` and ``dhar`` means ``hole``. Languages can be interesting, no?]

Even in elementary psychology courses, one learns that children outgrow their oral and anal fixations well before the age of 4.

Does your continuing anal fixation mean that your developmental age is under 4 or does it have a connection to your frquenting the gay bars of the Bay Area?

re: a letter in ``The Milli Gazette``
http://www.milligazette.com/Archives/2004/01-15Jul04-Print-Edition/011507200495.htm
The following is a letter in The Milligazette written by an IM. One wishes there were more such people around.
(Hindus are not against Muslims

Today in the aftermath of the recent elections in India where the 80% Hindu electorate rejected the Hindu fundamentalist BJP, that did so much in the last 6 years in power, and before that for 20 years in politics, to convert India into a Hindu nation, the Indian Muslims should acknowledge the farsighted and minority-sympathetic attitude of the Indian Hindus.

Overall the BJP rule was not a total failure. They did succeed in improving the economy of India a lot, albeit it was skewed in favour of the upper middle-class Indians and multinational corporations. Their foreign policy was also not a failure. They did achieve detente with Pakistan and significantly improved relations with Western powers, albeit a bit too much favouritism for US.

So to a large extent the electorate’s (80% Hindus) rejection of BJP is based on the electorate`s dislike of BJP`s efforts to change India from a composite multi-religious society with equal status for all, to a Hindu dominated society. The other major factor was the BJP`s indifference to the poor people of India (35% of the Indian population).

Today, Indian Muslims should acknowledge the above facts, and redouble their efforts to become a part of the mainstream in India. Indian Muslims should acknowledge today`s proven fact that in India, most Hindus are not against Muslims. If they were, they would have brought back BJP with enough majority to complete the task of Hinduisation of India, that BJP was trying to accomplish.

Today, Indian Muslims have to accept that they are terribly backward in education and in being constructive members of society. Their backwardness in education leads to much backwardness of attitudes. It causes unemployment, social ills in society, negative attitudes towards Muslim women, and suspicion of everything modern. Muslims have another opportunity to break out of the state of siege in which they have lived for years now.

At this time it will be to the benefit of the Muslim community that the volume of complaints from them about their being discriminated against in India, subside for a few years. Muslims should make use of the turnabout in the change of the government attitude, to carry out much needed reforms in their own society, and to make real efforts to recover from their backwardness in various arenas. Once they overcome these awful weaknesses they will not have to depend on any political party for their well-being, as has been the case in the past.

Kaleem Kawaja, Washington DC
kawaja@worldnet.att.net).
Sridhar

re: #316 by Faruk
Compare what FV wrote in this article:

(There is a Star Hunt being conducted on television. One of the finalists is a Muslim girl, who was wearing the most revealing clothes – expanse of bared midriff, backless, cleavage showing and hands and legs visible.)

TO

What she wrote in The Friday Times (current issue):

(What bothers me, however, is that in all this dismissal through pigeonholing (in which Muslims themselves are clearly complicit), there is a silenced Muslim voice. And it’s mine. Picture this: a woman without dupatta to cover her bosom, the contours of her legs clear through tight-fitting slacks, walking into a spiffy restaurant with her shades pushed back to tame those tresses. There is the slight whiff of musk as she passes by to take her seat by the window from where she can watch the sea. Between small bites forked into a glossy-lipped mouth, she talks to her companion about the communal riots. No problem? None whatsoever. Unless that woman happens to be me.)

You will realize she is not only inconsistent, even hypocritical.
Sridhar

Ref Grand Ayatullah Khuda Bux al-Hindvi #229

[....In Gujarat the riots continued for weeks and months, the army itself requested to be deployed, but was deffered, thanks to the double whammy of a state and centre controlled by the BJP]

The Army does NOT like to be involved in what would be termed as police actions to control civilians, be it in Kashmir, the Northeast or in Gujarat. It detracts from its effectiveness as a fighting force.

As to your claim that the Army itself requested to be deployed, I would like to remind you that the Indian political leadership does NOT take advice from its Army on even military matters let alone civilian ones. The Indian Army keeps its mouth shut unless asked for its opinion. You seem to be confusing the Indian Army from its offshoot, the Pakistan Army. However, I am sure the Pakistan Army has made enough efforts to distinguish itself from its parent including violating its sacred oath to abide by the rule of law.

So, unless you have credible reports that you can cite, stop spreading lies like this, though it may win you cheap popularity from credulous Pakistanis such as Ali_1, Urstruly and Tahmed32.

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hindvi: hatred for jews in europe is more than just a nazi phenomenon - it was practiced for hundreds of years in europe, and as far back as the 15th century (as reported by historian barbara tuchman in ``the 15th century: a distant mirror``) jews were required in parts of france to wear the infamous yellow star (the one nazis also forced them to wear), and pogroms (burning of jewish settlements) were carried out even back then. jews were also subject to false rumors, like the ``blood libel`` (where jews were supposed to ritualistically drink the blood of christian babies). at the turn of the 20th century someone in russia wrote the ``protocols of the elders of zion`` which was written as a jewish consipracy to take over the world - and it was later proven to be a pure hoax. thus, nazism simply represented an extreme case of a general trend.

The sad thing is that muslims in their time of power were in fact very tolerant of jews, and jews often attained high office (as in case of maimonides in spain and later in egypt). in the 17th century, sabbatai zevi declared himself to be a jewish messiah who would lead all jews out of their misery in europe and take them to muslim lands (kind of like moses took the jews out of egypt). didnt quite work out that way (mainly because the ottomans werent about to allow such large scale migration), but in any case at least 50,000 jews migrated from spain to escape the inquisition before that.

thus, the current hatred for jews in the middle east is i think not as deep-rooted in history as was nazism in europe - and that gives hope that one day arabs and jews will start living in peace. similarly, hindu-muslim hatreds are no doubt rooted in history. but again, i dont think the hatreds are as vicious as the christian-jewish hatreds have been in europe and gujerat was more of an aberration (hopefully, for the sake of the indians).

while on the subject of insecure religious minorities, i dont think it is any coincidence that there are only two countries in the world created on the basis of religion - pakistan and israel. these reflect concerns of a religious minority that have a kernel of truth in them. and of course pakistan refuses to acknowledge israel - even though these are the only two countries that share the same basis for existence (a point israeli diplomats have been trying to make over the decades to pakistanis - as far back as the 1960s i remember a friend of my father recalling how an israeli made exactly this argument to him when they chatted informally at an international meeting in paris, an argument that he of course promptly rejected.).

Dost mittar

the girl was a just a secretary of his! dost mittar no body knew about the final soluition, because it hadnt been worked out yet but just read the rise and fall of the third reich by william shirer, you are misinformed, i have posted a small extract from a web site below. every body knew what hitler was doing, he never made a secret of it infact einstein didnot even wait until things got really hot, he bolted in 1933 itself, because hitler had been publishing and giving speeches all along. through out the thirties jews in america were putting pressure on roosevelt, the oppresion was getting worse by the day, they . Nehru was disgusted, he refused to meet even Mussolini when on the way back from europe, (i think he was coming back after dropping kamala at the sanitarium in Switzerland) he stopped at rome airport and mussolini wanted to do so, nehru knew he would utilise the photograph for propoganda purposes. gandhi also expressed his dislike. Luftuwaffe`s condor wing was supporting general franco that is where the stuka dive bomber was perfected and the bombing of the town of Guernica, in 1937 inspired Picasso`s most famous painting by the same name. anyway even if bose knew of nothing until the krystalnacht in 1938 that too gave him enough time he didnt join hitler untill 1941. He must have known about the rape of nanjing too, the numbers were not known but the atrocity was.

Stuka

as a prospective american you would be surprised, recent research by Michael beslosch reveals that Allies had some idea about the final solution by 1944/early 45 and Morgenthau asked roosevelt to bomb the railway tracks, roosevelt replied that he couldnt redirect the war effort, and after all catholics and jews were in america at the suffarance of protestants!
i am just a buff.





``In 1920, Hitler announced to the very small Nazi Party the Five Points of national Socialism. One of these stated:

``None but members of the nation may be citizens of the State. None but those of German blood may be members of the nation. No Jew, therefore, may be a member of the nation.``

Once in power, Hitler used his position to launch a campaign against the Jews that culminated in the Holocaust.

Hitler blamed the Jews for all the misfortunes that had befallen Germany

the loss of the First World War was the result of a Jewish conspiracy

the Treaty of Versailles was also a Jewish conspiracy designed to bring Germany to her knees

the hyperinflation of 1923 was the result of an international Jewish attempt to destroy Germany

During the time when Weimar Germany was seemingly recovering under Stresseman, what Hitler said about the Jews remained nonsense listened to by only the few - hence his poor showing at elections prior to the 1929 Depression. During the impact of the Great Depression, though, when people became unemployed and all looked helpless, Hitler`s search for a scapegoat proved a lot more fruitful.

After January 1933, the Jews became the ``Untermenschen`` - the sub-humans. Nazi thugs stopped Germans from shopping in Jewish shops. By 1934, all Jewish shops were marked with the yellow Star of David or had the word ``Juden`` written on the window. SA men stood outside the shops to deter anyone form entering. This was not necessarily a violent approach to the Jews - that was to come later - but it was an attempt to economically bankrupt them and destroy what they had spent years building up.

On buses, trains and park benches, Jews had to sit on seats marked for them. Children at schools were taught specifically anti-Semitic ideas. Jewish school children were openly ridiculed by teachers and the bullying of Jews in the playground by other pupils went unpunished. If the Jewish children responded by not wanting to go to school, then that served a purpose in itself and it also gave the Nazi propagandists a reason to peddle the lie that Jewish children were inherently lazy and could not be bothered to go to school.

In 1935, the Nuremberg Laws were passed. The Jews lost their right to be German citizens and marriage between Jews and non-Jews was forbidden. It was after this law that the violence against the Jew really openly started. Those that could pay a fine were allowed to leave the country. Many could not and many shops refused to sell food to those who remained. Medicines were also difficult to get hold of as chemists would not sell to Jews.

The campaign against the Jews stopped for a short duration during the Berlin Olympics - but once the overseas press had gone, it started up again. It reached a pre-war peak in 1938 with Krystalnacht - The Night of the Broken Glass.

In November 1938, a Nazi `diplomat` was shot dead by a Jew in Paris. Hitler ordered a seven day campaign of terror against the Jews in Germany to be organised by Himmler and the SS. On the 10th November, the campaign started. 10,000 shops owned by Jews were destroyed and their contents stolen. Homes and synagogues were set on fire and left to burn. The fire brigades showed their loyalty to Hitler by assuming that the buildings would burn down anyway, so why try to prevent it? A huge amount of damage was done to Jewish property but the Jewish community was ordered to pay a one billion mark fine to pay for the eventual clear-up. Jews were forced to scrub the streets clean.``

Arjun m

Dost mittar is right on this, check this statement by India’s foremost social-psychologist Ashish Nandy :

the rest of the article is available here:
http://www.india-seminar.com/semframe%20gujarat.htm

``Almost nothing reveals the decline and degeneration of Gujarati middle class culture more than its present Chief Minister, Narendra Modi. Not only has he shamelessly presided over the riots and acted as the chief patron of rioting gangs, the vulgarities of his utterances have been a slur on civilised public life. His justifications of the riots, too, sound uncannily like that of Slobodan Milosevic, the Serbian president and mass murderer who is now facing trial for his crimes against humanity. I often wonder these days why those active in human rights groups in India and abroad have not yet tried to get international summons issued against Modi for colluding with the murder of hundreds and for attempted ethnic cleansing. If Modi’s behaviour till now is not a crime against humanity, what is?

More than a decade ago, when Narendra Modi was a nobody, a small-time RSS pracharak trying to make it as a small-time BJP functionary, I had the privilege of interviewing him along with Achyut Yagnik, whom Modi could not fortunately recognise. (Fortunately because he knew Yagnik by name and was to later make some snide comments about his activities and columns.) It was a long, rambling interview, but it left me in no doubt that here was a classic, clinical case of a fascist. I never use the term ‘fascist’ as a term of abuse; to me it is a diagnostic category comprising not only one’s ideological posture but also the personality traits and motivational patterns contextualising the ideology.





Modi, it gives me no pleasure to tell the readers, met virtually all the criteria that psychiatrists, psycho-analysts and psychologists had set up after years of empirical work on the authoritarian personality. He had the same mix of puritanical rigidity, narrowing of emotional life, massive use of the ego defence of projection, denial and fear of his own passions combined with fantasies of violence – all set within the matrix of clear paranoid and obsessive personality traits. I still remember the cool, measured tone in which he elaborated a theory of cosmic conspiracy against India that painted every Muslim as a suspected traitor and a potential terrorist. I came out of the interview shaken and told Yagnik that, for the first time, I had met a textbook case of a fascist and a prospective killer, perhaps even a future mass murderer.

The very fact that he has wormed his way to the post of the chief minister of Gujarat tells you something about our political process and the trajectory our democracy has traversed in the last fifty years. I am afraid I cannot look at the future of the country with anything but great foreboding.``

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Dost mittar

the girl was a just a secretary of his! dost mittar no body knew about the final soluition, because it hadnt been worked out yet but just read the rise and fall of the third reich by william shirer, you are misinformed, i have posted a small extract from a web site below. every body knew what hitler was doing, he never made a secret of it infact einstein didnot even wait until things got really hot, he bolted in 1933 itself, because hitler had been publishing and giving speeches all along. through out the thirties jews in america were putting pressure on roosevelt, the oppresion was getting worse by the day, they . Nehru was disgusted, he refused to meet even Mussolini when on the way back from europe, (i think he was coming back after dropping kamala at the sanitarium in Switzerland) he stopped at rome airport and mussolini wanted to do so, nehru knew he would utilise the photograph for propoganda purposes. gandhi also expressed his dislike. Luftuwaffe`s condor wing was supporting general franco that is where the stuka dive bomber was perfected and the bombing of the town of Guernica, in 1937 inspired Picasso`s most famous painting by the same name. anyway even if bose knew of nothing until the krystalnacht in 1938 that too gave him enough time he didnt join hitler untill 1941. He must have known about the rape of nanjing too, the numbers were not known but the atrocity was.

Stuka

as a prospective american you would be surprised, recent research by Michael beslosch reveals that Allies had some idea about the final solution by 1944/early 45 and Morgenthau asked roosevelt to bomb the railway tracks, roosevelt replied that he couldnt redirect the war effort, and after all catholics and jews were in america at the suffarance of protestants!
i am just a buff.





``In 1920, Hitler announced to the very small Nazi Party the Five Points of national Socialism. One of these stated:

``None but members of the nation may be citizens of the State. None but those of German blood may be members of the nation. No Jew, therefore, may be a member of the nation.``

Once in power, Hitler used his position to launch a campaign against the Jews that culminated in the Holocaust.

Hitler blamed the Jews for all the misfortunes that had befallen Germany

the loss of the First World War was the result of a Jewish conspiracy

the Treaty of Versailles was also a Jewish conspiracy designed to bring Germany to her knees

the hyperinflation of 1923 was the result of an international Jewish attempt to destroy Germany

During the time when Weimar Germany was seemingly recovering under Stresseman, what Hitler said about the Jews remained nonsense listened to by only the few - hence his poor showing at elections prior to the 1929 Depression. During the impact of the Great Depression, though, when people became unemployed and all looked helpless, Hitler`s search for a scapegoat proved a lot more fruitful.

After January 1933, the Jews became the ``Untermenschen`` - the sub-humans. Nazi thugs stopped Germans from shopping in Jewish shops. By 1934, all Jewish shops were marked with the yellow Star of David or had the word ``Juden`` written on the window. SA men stood outside the shops to deter anyone form entering. This was not necessarily a violent approach to the Jews - that was to come later - but it was an attempt to economically bankrupt them and destroy what they had spent years building up.

On buses, trains and park benches, Jews had to sit on seats marked for them. Children at schools were taught specifically anti-Semitic ideas. Jewish school children were openly ridiculed by teachers and the bullying of Jews in the playground by other pupils went unpunished. If the Jewish children responded by not wanting to go to school, then that served a purpose in itself and it also gave the Nazi propagandists a reason to peddle the lie that Jewish children were inherently lazy and could not be bothered to go to school.

In 1935, the Nuremberg Laws were passed. The Jews lost their right to be German citizens and marriage between Jews and non-Jews was forbidden. It was after this law that the violence against the Jew really openly started. Those that could pay a fine were allowed to leave the country. Many could not and many shops refused to sell food to those who remained. Medicines were also difficult to get hold of as chemists would not sell to Jews.

The campaign against the Jews stopped for a short duration during the Berlin Olympics - but once the overseas press had gone, it started up again. It reached a pre-war peak in 1938 with Krystalnacht - The Night of the Broken Glass.

In November 1938, a Nazi `diplomat` was shot dead by a Jew in Paris. Hitler ordered a seven day campaign of terror against the Jews in Germany to be organised by Himmler and the SS. On the 10th November, the campaign started. 10,000 shops owned by Jews were destroyed and their contents stolen. Homes and synagogues were set on fire and left to burn. The fire brigades showed their loyalty to Hitler by assuming that the buildings would burn down anyway, so why try to prevent it? A huge amount of damage was done to Jewish property but the Jewish community was ordered to pay a one billion mark fine to pay for the eventual clear-up. Jews were forced to scrub the streets clean.``