The Doll’s House

rajsinghi:
``One sees quite a few sweeping statements in the above, and highly questionable too, but one does not see what is the basis of those statements.``

....nothing more than being a newsjunkie for several decades, reading several books, watching credible tv current affairs program, living in India in a middle class hindu-sikh neighbourhood, visiting India regularly and talking to several old friends and colleagues, and interacting with several hindu-sikh NRIs at parties and some muslims, too.

``How the above shows, leave alone prove, that Netaji Subhas Chandra Bose was fascinated by Hitler? And that was the question I had asked earlier.``

Sure your enemy`s enemy is your friend, but I have not read any statements from Bose critical of Hitler even after he left Germany. And I believe he also married a girl from Nazi Germany.

arjun-m:
Since when have I become a spokesman for Congress?

ali_1:
Before we accept you as an honorary pothowari, you will have to pass a language test administerd by urstruly and me and marked by hamidm. No, your pal stuka doesn`t count!

hindvi:
I have never felt motivated to read Mein Kempf. Krystallnacht happened in August 1938. Until then, Hitler`s real agenda was not a common knowledge. (good post, btw!)

Farzana,
Just read the article …..

So you have a problem with Gudia being on TV. You’ve got to be kidding, the woman has two husbands……. and they are fighting over her. If that does not make good television what does. As far as making a spectacle of her because she is a muslim is concerned, we Indians have never shied away from having fun at the expense of others. I think this is part of the truly secular character of this nation, it even survived the BJP.

According to you Arif is not a hero. He survived 5 years in a Pakistani prison, most Pakistani’s would agree that would make him a hero. I believe that the other guy did not get a hero’s welcome, sorry dude you are one in a million Sikhs who fought for this country and you came back to a happy family. If you want to be on TV that just doesn’t cut it these days.

“There is a Star Hunt being conducted on television. One of the finalists is a Muslim girl, who was wearing the most revealing clothes – expanse of bared midriff, backless, cleavage showing and hands and legs visible.”

Now seriously woman how can you have a problem with that!

Regards,

Faruk

`` If you knew iota of Hindu ideology, you wouldn`t say that Hindus need Muslims to acknowledge their superiority. Accomodation is the central doctrine of Hindu phioloshpy.``

Yarr...one is distinguishing between chauvanists and others. How the average person interprets ``Hindu philosphy`` varies, however the chauvanists have made their opinion quite clear. If you have a differeing view, then please take it up with them...

Indian Muslims do not need to be encorporated into another whole, nor ``Hinduize`` for the sake of validating anothers accomodating urge. Rather they need to show the same respect to others the would expect for themselves. To this, I would agree. Yar...you may be a non believer but that does not mean it is incumbant upon Muslims to be hostile to you, especially when we are being accomodated to our liking by the vast majority...in spite of the wishes of a lunatic fringe, which seems to have a disporportionate number of sympathizers here on Chowk.

``Problem starts when:
* Muslim are taught in the Madrassaa not to trust kafirs``

Or Hindus are taught that this is what Muslims are taught, and so are inherently untrustworty...

``* Past glory is recited in Mosques with hateful speeches towards kafirs``

Or long past atrocities are recited and focused on in temples with inciteful speeches towards Muslims.

``* Bashing someone`s belief, be it in an idol or a living entity, is considered duty``

Agreed...as if this is not done the other way...

``* Someone who does all of the above and beyond is considered closer to the role model prophet. ``

...or someone who does all of the above is labeled as a paka Muslim who is in fact what all Muslims aspire to as their secret agenda.

``Take Farzana for example, she likes azan but hates the temple music. Isn`t that hypocracy?``

Where does she say she hates temple music?

``As far as elimination of diffrenece is concerned, your comments make me laugh. You wouldn`t find as many diffrences as in India in any other part of the world. ``

EXACTLY...the differences don`t bother me...they seem to bother you and they sure as hell bother the heck out of the hard-line Hindu nationalists. Why is an attack on the subversive elements of India taken as an attack on India itself? That implies an agreement with the agenda of these subversives.

311

Excellent and historically accurate post.

Did you major in history or is it just a passion?

concerned
i dont know who this dude is, i have read the miiligazete only twice or so, the other paper i didnt know existed.

Jarnail Dost mittar

That was an outstanding strategem for deflecting the discussion, I am impressed. ;)

vertex,

Your quote:
``Of course, no doubt you would hold any belief that does not acknowledge the superiority of Hinduism in India as such a beleif. Hindus do not need to accomodate because they are what Muslims are expected to assimlate to...the implication being that they are somehow foreign or not entirely Indian.
The problem is not a faith community being different, but of a chauvanisitc lot demanding that that difference be eliminated. ``

My take: If you knew iota of Hindu ideology, you wouldn`t say that Hindus need Muslims to acknowledge their superiority. Accomodation is the central doctrine of Hindu phioloshpy.

Problem starts when:
* Muslim are taught in the Madrassaa not to trust kafirs
* Past glory is recited in Mosques with hateful speeches towards kafirs
* Bashing someone`s belief, be it in an idol or a living entity, is considered duty
* Someone who does all of the above and beyond is considered closer to the role model prophet.

Take Farzana for example, she likes azan but hates the temple music. Isn`t that hypocracy? When you want others to stay put with azan, what can be wrong with other music?

As far as elimination of diffrenece is concerned, your comments make me laugh. You wouldn`t find as many diffrences as in India in any other part of the world.

BTW which differences you were pointing to?
If it has to do with civil society and its laws, then nobody is above the law.

#283
i apologize for the typo of u in place of i (they are very close on my keyboard) in spelling the dhanushya. gandiv was the favorite weapon (bow) of parth (arjun, not to be confused with arjun_m) of mahabharat if i know my indian scriptures well and is well resptected as the most accurate.

so farts sents from gandiv are on the mark (damn the keyboard again, i meant darts), but miss the point that FV is making. she is whining about her opressed feelings, the (twisted) facts in the article need not be countered point-by-point but its better to address the general whine.

Dost Mittar

Post #298

Quote:

`` The Muslim elite was lulled into thinking that there was no more issue and that everyone had accepted the Marxist-Muslim version of the hindu-muslim interaction (basically a more civilised version of the one taught in Pakistan except for the history of the creation of Pakistan itself); the only ones who knew this was not the case were the the poor, uneducated muslims who not only bore the brunt of the barely-reported riots but also had to interact with ordinary hindus on a day-to-day basis and face their prejudices and discriminations. The Ramayan-Mahabharat serials, though third rate productions from the few that I saw, gave hindus the pride in themselves and the Shah Bano case gave them the opportunity to remove the mask of political correctness from their speeches, further emboldened by the de-pariah-isation of the BJP from the political mainstream. ``

One sees quite a few sweeping statements in the above, and highly questionable too, but one does not see what is the basis of those statements.

Dost-Mittar

Hitler and Bose saw each other as allies against a common enemy but did they share a common ideology beyond socialism?

Let me stick my neck out and say this:

What Hitler did turned out to be beneficial for India and rest of the colonised world. Yes it did. He screwed France and Britain and made them weaker. This not only created a strong case againt imperialism inside the populace of those imperial powers, it also made it very difficult for them to hold on to areas so far removed.

Now I am not saying he did the right thing by killing so many people and by taking the whole world in the war, but definitely it turned out to be a blessing for us.

Subhash Chandra Bose tried to take help of Hitler and Japan to free India and there is nothing wrong in that. Not at all. After all the allied powers were brandishing their war as a war for freedom; but that bas@#@ Churchill was not willing to concede that India and others would also get freedom. In other words, freedom for the Europeans and ghulami for the rest. screw that.

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Dost Mittar

Post#299

`` There were many admirers of Hitler during the thirties, including those in Britain (P.G.Wodehous) and in the U.S. Bose was a socialist and in case one forgets, Hitler`s party was called the National Socialist (hence Nazis) which appealed to many socialists. I wonder if someone like Bongdong could throw some light on the ideology of Forward Bloc founded by Bose and whether it had any similarity with National Socialism. I doubt if the official manifesto called for the extermination of jews and therefore an admiration for Hitler at that time did not necessarily mean approval of his evil acts. ``

How the above shows, leave alone prove, that Netaji Subhas Chandra Bose was fascinated by Hitler? And that was the question I had asked earlier.

In the above, it is requested that someone else should throw/shed some light on some aspect. And this, when CONCLUSION already had been arrived at and expressed by the writer. So on what basis that conclusion was arrived at, which I am questioning or is questionable?

rsridhar #254
[``Hey Ali (also known as Eunuch in Tamil),``]

Ha Ha. Thats a good one, rsridhar. Do you know that in my native Pothowari language, sridhar translates to ``loose stools`` (sri -- stool, dhar -- loose). In the neighboring Hindko region, ``sri`` means ``ass`` and ``dhar`` means ``hole``. Languages can be interesting, no?

[``when the perpetrators of all crimes against honor killings and rapes are punished, we can talk.
Until then, keep your head between your thighs or rock in front of your stupid holy book.``]

Iyengar Babu, we are not talking about punishing rapists, all we are asking the beghairat Hindu qaum to do is to NOT elect the rapists to the highest offices in India, like the rapists of Gujarat are ministers in Gujurat and rapists of Sikh women are ministers in the center.

[``Where does Sai baba figure in here.``]

I was just paying respect to your favorite deity. May you and other disciples have his shadow over your head and his ling where ever you prefer.

[``BTW, Chinese are raking in the moolah by printing Saibaba`s picture on T-shirts.
``Tum chootiyon ko kab akal ayegee``]

We are not talking about T-shirts, rather the Indian proclivity to reward murderers and rapists. ``Tum kanjron ko sharam kab ayegee?``

Dost mittar
Socialists never admired the Nazis they knew very well, what National Socialist stood for. that is why thousands of socialists from all over the world voluntered, fought and died in Spain against franco`s troops who were supported by the Nazis. Mulk Raj Anand voluntered, as did George Orwell and even nehru contemplated doing so. hemingway reported on that conflict.

Nobody knew jews were being exterminated because that didnt start until after the war was well underway, even the german populace knew it only later. But every one and his uncle knew what the Nazis were doing to the jews otherwise. I cant imagine Bose didnt. every single prominent jew from freud to Einstein escaped, Kystal Nacht had happened and jews were being marked out, rounded up and transported, they were being removed from business and industry, Academia and public service.

The communists in germany had been crushed, imprisoned and transported. but communist parties had the peculiar habit of following Russia`s lead and Stalin, who had earlier been paranoid about Hitler (justifiably if you read the mein kampf`s emphasis on eastward lebensraum and the inferior nature of the slav races) had signed the Ribbentrop-Molotov nonaggression pact in 1939 which divided poland between them, gave russia access to german military technology in exchange for natural resources and bought of hitler`s eastern front worries while he dealt with britain and france. stalin was so sure of Hitler`s preoccupation and the nature of the pact that the Russians didnt even detect 120 divisions being ammassed on their border, initially he even refused to believe reports of the attacjk from the front. no doubt the left in india, of which the forward bloc was a part, folowed that lead.

Bose`s primary aim was to get rid of the british, help coming from wherever, that is why he joined hands with the Japanese, though every one knew of their slaughters in China, the rape of nanjing alone which had killed 300,000 and gang raped another 20,000 had stunned the world when it happened in 1937 i think.

It is amusing to hear the repeated claim that the RSS was fascinated by Hitler and Mussolini in the 30s which is taken as proof that they must be completely perverted. Anyone with any knowledge would know that most centre and right-of-centre politicians everywhere in the world were impressed by these clowns. It is only after the mid-30s (Kristallnacht killings) that more people started to understand that these leaders were going to lead to major tragedies.

Isn`t it also interesting that you never hear statements like: ``the communist party of india, which supported the soviet dictator Stalin and justified his genocide of russians and many minorities, is a perverted etc. etc``. There is no better proof of the intellectual lack of integrity of the ``left intellectuals`` in India.