The Doll’s House

gujju1:
``Pop quiz. Name the creature that displays the following characteristics``
..Easy, creatures in gujju`s fantasyland!

Dear farzana

I sympathise with your predicament for i have been in the same. The things you say are largely true. thankfully i livid in delhi and not in bombay, i did visit it once under thakeray`s raj and i was saddened by how this great and cosmopolitan city had become so communally vicious.

but your tone is not right, this tone cannot lead to a dialogue but only to sensationalism. the same things could have been said in a more conciliatory way, after all these things are common to the subcontinent and indeed to humanity as a whole and not just to hindus. you will offend hindus, many of whom are liberal, also you will make those who are on the border line more defensive no human likes to be reminded of the weaknesses of the group he/she identifies with, it has to be done gently. we have to engage in a dialogue not recrimination. those who are in the right camp will completely disregard this.

human beings when they are in a majority dont even realise what the other has to suffer this is universal human nature. awareness has to be created not hostility.

good article farzana, nice flow.

- my camel in jaisselmeer was also named michael jackson. other was named kaloo to contrast with michael who offcourse is white.
- you represent anguish of a well-off muslim background person in india.
- you are mainstream since most of your gripes about ganapti etc are shared by the mainstream

What a pathetic display of arrogance and hatred!
I am sure Frazana had her share of Madrassa venom backed by some saudi sheikh.

First Gudia epsiode: Let me tell you that I dislike Zee TV as much as you hate, due to of course my own share of reasons (biased coverage, pathetic standard of sit-coms), but that`s another matter.

``Arif who was called an absconder by the Indian Army was hailed as a hero on his return, not for what he did on the front, but merely for returning as a PoW.`` The sarcastic tone in the above statement, definitely raises question about loyalty to India.

Any soldier, irrespective of his religion, who has suffered on enemy territory and comes back home, deserves the respect, praise and glory. Again since you`re not ready to consider him a hero, there is again a question if you really consider Pakistan ``an enemy`` in case of war. It also looks like that you want to discourage any Indian muslim joining Indian army.

About the star-hunt on TV: ``What he was doing was playing to the gallery, showing that his family had ‘progressed’ from hiding even their nails to expose much more``
Well, this shows your idea about modernity. If you think that showing your nail to public doesn`t suit you, you`re free to cover it and roam around like veiled ghost, but why you are so pissef off when someone just because she is muslim wins the star-hunt show? May be you`re jealous that you are more beautiful than her but never got a chance to show off. You need to rethink where you are, and where you are headed.

``Sir Vidia says Arabs are “not fine people”:`` Can you list a few qualities of fine people?
Here`s my take: Honesty, courage, character, respecting every form of life, art.
Now you tell me, have you seen any of these in any of the conspicuous arabs?
I haven`t. What I have seen is, arabs sitting on oil, not doing any work for food, hiring indian, pakistani and bdeshi servants and maids, aged 65+, lurking in Hyderabad and Orissa to marry 9 year olds, until some Nari Utkarsh Sanstha gets hold of their collar.

``I wake up not to the sound of the azaan but the dhin-chik, dhin-chik from some Hindu pandal or the other.`` Where do you live Farzana, beacuse the India I have seen have mosques with microphones and they start 5 oc`clock in morning. I was lucky enough not to stay near one of those.

I heard, music is anti-islamic as per some mullahs, I am not sure if it`s really true. But you are really annoyed by the sound you should seriously consider relocating to some other area, city or probably country.

``Dr. Zakaria’s problem is that he comes up with the same old clichés and his solutions sound more like homilies than workable answers. On the Muslim youth, he says, “They have become rudderless; they have lost hope about any prospect in this country.” Why does he not count them as a part of a potential brain-drain? Why are they held up as examples of wasted youth when they probably suffer from the same problems as anyone else? What does he mean by lost hope of any prospect in India when there are many more Hindus moving overseas to better their lot? If some Muslim youth go to the Gulf countries, then they are doing so for the same reasons. ``
Beacuse I have seen muslim youth sitting idly on the street, not attending schools, but never misssing mosque prayer. I feel sorry for them that their priorities are messed up. They need science more than religion. You also seem jealous of NRIs, majority of them being Hindus, naturally of course since Hindus are in majority and higher overall literacy rate. It`s simple enough to understand, I don`t know how else I can help you.

About Zakaria you wrote, ``And would he have the courage to talk to Dr. Murli Manohar Joshi who has been crying aloud for adding astrology and Vedic studies to the curriculum?``
Now the poor guy was poiniting at some problem to find some solution, and you related that with completely irrelavent subject. Astrology and vedic studies are considered as science, and whats your argument against it? Are you for kowledge or against it? Isn`t it good to have one more optional field to stydy on? You would praise USA for having 20000 universities most of which offering 300+ courses. I don`t see anyone forcing astrology down anyone`s throat. This reveals your dislike about anything Hindu, even though valuable.

``However, this madrassa education is such a gross exaggeration that it is not funny``
Can you tell me what is the standard of science and math is in the best of the madrassa? Schools are designed to build citizens who are strong, knowledgable, self-reliant and law-abiding, who can compete with the best in the world. Other than what salahuddin did back in 1300s, I don`t see anything that madrassa teaches.

``The whole ‘belong to the mainstream’ idea is dangerous``. Whats wrong with it? There are countless types of people in India living and worshipping the god they respect. Why muslims can`t fit in? Attitude of intolerance and ungratefulness towards the land you live on, is the minimum any country can ask from you. Seems that you have another definition notion of country. Why don`t come forward and say that I don`t believe in Indian constitution?

On Islamic terrorism vs. Hindu fundamentalism :
``Now may I ask on what basis do a number of Hindus have any business to suspect this? If I am supposed to feel ashamed for what someone does in another part of the world, whose language I cannot understand, whose food habits and clothes are different from mine, who even looks different, then I have every right to find terrorists in my backyard from the majority community.`` Isn`t targeted killing of Hindus in Kashmir, forget bdesh and pakistan, enough to convince you about Islamic terrorism? Name me one Hindu terrorist gang that have taken up AK47s on the name of religion. Youre amazing!

``Why can Indian Muslims not be suspicious of the acts of Hindus because of the doings of L.K. Advani, Uma Bharti, Praveen Togadia, Narendra Modi, Bal Thackeray? Why can we not suspect that the majority are aligned with these people who I consider terrorists? ``
So what`s your point? You want to be suspicious, so be it. What you`re gonna do? Raise terrorist on your backyard? Go ahead, someone will come out with another POTA and you will have your share.

Why do you also pull CIA in the mix? CIA has nothing in its heart for India, believe me. All it cares is about american interest.

Now for the quiz:
``* Why can they not have good leaders to guide them? ``
I agree with you on this, India needs good leaders.

``* Why has their population growth slowed down by 2.9 per cent while the Muslims’ has gone down by 3.5 per cent? ``
Come on, you know the trick behind this, don`t you? The plain simple fact is Hindu growth rate is under 20% whereas muslim`s is 28%. Now you come out with second and thrid derivative or even try Bernoulli`s equation to dazzle some, but it wouldn`t change the fact.

``* Why do they have panel discussions discussing ‘Hindu bashing’ and why do they fear being overtaken by the Muslims and yet accuse the Mussalmans of whining and suffering from an inferiority complex?``
Beacuse discussing real problems is a sign of mature democracy. I encourage muslims to discuss their problems, or even better, be part of national discussion forum if they like, and find solutions to that.

``* Why do they grumble when it comes to reservations for Muslims when there are whole sections of tribal and backward castes that get it and indeed deserve it due to the flaws of history? ``
Because the whole idea of reservation is wrong, mind you, I am not Brahman; in that it looks for correcting historical wrong. Extending a wrond idea to muslims, who by being muslims, haven`t suffered in 2000 years is not only wrong but unjust and illegal. Andhra HC has a verdict on this.

``* How can they dare to point fingers at Muslim regressiveness when they have not been able to improve the lot of their own people that has given rise to the Dalit movement? ``
Because bad is bad, wrong is wrong and a spade is a spade. Dalit movement is purely political driven by Mayawati`s and Lallus, there is no social extension to it.
And what do you think, just because someone else is sick you want to stay sick?

``* How can they make a noise about the sad plight of Muslim girls when statistically there are more instances of female infanticide, child marriages among Hindus than cases of Hyderabad girls being forced to marry Arabs? ``
Can you pls. quote the source of statistics? Again sickness is sickness, wherever you call it? But it all depends on the reliability of the source.

``* Why do they harp on Muslim men marrying four times when bigamy is more common among Hindus? ``
Bigamy is illegal, frowned upon, discouraged and conisdered an evil.
In Islam, polygamy is enocuraged, worshipped and sanctioned by mullahs.
Your take?

``* How can they talk disparagingly about Muslim ghettos when India is divided along regional, culinary, caste, status lines?`` Ghettos are symbol of separatism that`s why. If you think you are separate from this country you pack your bags and go to Pakistan.

``* Why are there no discussions on the problem with Hinduism? ``
Why are you interested with knowing problems of Hinduism? Unless of course you either want to cure it or cut it. I think you wish the later.

``* Why is a Hindu saying that the Gujarat genocide was bad considered a liberal and a Muslim saying so a communalist?`` Anyone saying Gujarat genocide ``bad`` is not enough, it`s in the context of Godhra that triggered it. How do you want to take the death of 58 childerns and women otherwise? I don`t justify the violence. But when you can accept Godhra as an accident why can`t you accept the folloing episode as an ``accident``? How can someone murder 58 children and women in an ``accident``? If you have a theory of Modi being a perpetrator, there is also a theory that Godhra mosque incited local muslims to stop the help for the victims and delayed the fire-fighters, how do you feel about it?
Looks like double standards to me.

``I am amazed that today we have educated people talking about the dangers of ‘secular fundamentalists’. ``
If you know what secularism means and history of it, you wouldn`t have said this. Can by any stretch of imagination think of teaching saudis or lets come close, pakistanis ``secularism``. Can you think of a pakistani journalist rediculing some maulana and bashing muslim history in pakistan? Then what`s wrong with calling psecs, psecs?
So if you`re in Pakistan or Saudi, secularism is bad for you and if you`re in India its the most prized jewel?

Back to Gudiya, ``Gudiya has to go through mental torture and be made a tamasha of.``
I pity Gudia, but then there are 100 billion Indians with their own problems. Its the responsibility of Gudiya`s parents, friends, social aquaitances and local social/religious leaders to make sure she was guided right. If she can`t wait unmarried for 8 months for her husband, then how can you think of blaming government and army for that? Sue her parents and people around her.

Overall, I think Farzana, you`re better of outside India. You seem terribly incensed with the realities around you. There is sharp contrast between the image of India that you like, and what it actually is. Also there is anti-india undercurrent with the hint of ill-will.
Farzana, whatever bad you wish for India, India is on the rise and will be, and I am not sorry for you.

On a lighter note-

Last time it was about ``real`` Jinnah, this time it is the ``false`` Rafiq Zakaria- there is a common thread here and I am aware where it comes from!!!!!
Guess!!!

Farzana,
I cannot make out if this was a criticism of Rafiq Zakaria & Naipaul or an indictment of the society at large. There is much to criticize about the society but there`s no use doing it along the lines of hindus versus muslims. There is hyper-religiosity in the air as a whole, with hindu and muslim festivals becoming brasher and more in-the-face and provocative. Singling out muslims for criticism while ignoring what everyone else is doing is a sure sign of bigotry. However self examination and self criticism are important and necessary. This may be what sets Zakaria and Naipaul apart from each other.
As for the Zee TV episode, I have noticed that you have a tendency to pick out an isolated incident and generalize from it. What the TV show did is pathetic and soul-less. What the Panchayat did by denying the woman a say in the matter is worse still because it has real consequences to the woman. Religion enters into it only to the extent that a hindu widow in a village would not have remarried. Draw your own conclusions.

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Farazana,
What is objectionable about your article is you advocate restricting individual choice. A young muslim women likes to dress to look good, and you see that as pandering to the majority? How warped can you get? This is the essential tragedy of muslims in india. A women who wears the burka is derided by the progressives (I am guilty of this), and one who chooses to be normal is betraying (or worse) her religious identity. And the tragedy is that people with all the priveleges of upper class indian society like you , want to keep muslim women in a straight jacket. Shame!

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>> Zee TV virtually dragged these people to the studios and conducted an on-camera panchayat where these decisions were taken. Gudiya remained a mute doll, forced to accept words of the Shariat being mouthed by those present.

The world was made to see how easy it is to make a spectacle of the Indian Muslim. Put them on TV, discuss their strange laws <<

Yes, it is better to sweep such issues under the rug. No tamasha, no discussions, no pointing fingers at anyone... especially by Hindus.

Author is also right about the media bias when it comes to discussing ``Hindu`` problems. If I wasn`t psychic, I would have never come to know about dowry, female infanticide, caste-wars, atrocities on dalits, etc. There are hardly ever any news items on tv/magazines about these issues. Outside India, no one is aware of these strifes in Hindu soceity. Right?

Also, since no one discusses, there haven`t been any protests and no measures have been taken to tackle dowry problems or female infanticide. Instead, Hindus like to pass time by highlighting ``strange laws`` of islamic world.

Author has highlighted the best way to serve justice in case of any religion related problem is, to keep quiet. Or silently protest. Or let the same-religion media discuss the issues such that no one hears about it, protest when no one can see them and pray for a change.

I agree with the rest of the article as well... after ``silently`` discussing the main problem, we should vociferously point fingers back at others... especially those who dared discuss ``our`` problems... because we are an entity in ourselves. Oh, and don`t waste time in trying to be logical or correct or.... even have a focus. We need all that time to ramble at leisure.

I am providing the link to the outlook article that I was referring to in my earlier post.

http://www.outlookindia.com/full.asp?fodname=20041004&fname=Cover+Story+%28F%29&sid=1

Another thing that I want to comment on is that Mohammad Arif and Jagsir Singh were captured by a Pakistani patrol just after the Kargil war. There was no communication about this by the Pakistan Govt. to the Indian Govt. Both soldiers were last spotted in a town before their capture. In such a case the Army has an automatic procedure to declare a soldier as a deserter, when his whereabout is not known. It could be argued as to whether this rule is correct but in the Army rules and procedures are followed. Farzana article without saying explicitly tries to give a communal angle to Arif being named a deserter by the army which is baseless.

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as i said a nice article articulating frustrations of a well-educated modern person of muslim community who is kind of ashamed of her background (as is exemplified by her attack on zakaria) and feels overwhelming guilt about enjoying ``mainstream`` things like all the festivals that mumbai enjoys with zest.

one dilli girl transferred from miranda house in dilli to st. xaviers college. at the end of one acedimic year she was totally overwhelmed. The year started with Govindas doing their pyramids, followed by the 10 day Ganesh Celebrations. Interspersed were all the local hikes by taking the local train to Kasara into some old shivaji fortress. Then it was the Navratri (number of underage abortions skyrocket after about 2 months) Dandiya Ras. Diwali was a relatively lame affair (comparatively). Then there were all the local fests like the Bandra Fair and Mahim Urs, Chrismas and New year, a month of Ramdan side-walk eating on Md. Ali (jinnah) road. Whos got time for Holi (which she found very civilized as compared to dilli) since there were all the college festivals like malhar and mood-i etc.

she actually enjoyed all the fun, its the exams she had to tolerate.

but for some of us, we yearn for minimalistic bairagi simplicity which is not mumbai city. may be some sandy place (jaissalmeer ?) nothing wrong with it. i myself went deaf from the dhols in ganesh immersion celebrations, though i put-up with it because i was completely spellbound by a group of young ladies doing a kind of techo-bhai dance in the procession.

the religious nonsense one has to put-up with to reach simpler truths.

.............personally i cannot get too excited about the plight of indian muslims and the bushmen of kalahari - i wish them well, but we have enough troubles of our own ........ however, they do seem to whine a lot ......... they had their chance to pick up their boria-bister and lota and move to god`s side of the border in 1947, but they chose to stay and take their chances with the horrible hindoos - serves them right! ............ their friends and neighbours who moved to karachi are living in the lap of luxury and eat cake-russ three times a day............

``female infanticide, child marriages among Hindus than cases ``

actually it turns out that sikhs have highest skew in female-male birth ratio, followed by hindus, muslims, christiand and jains have the most females being born. surprisingly, jains pay hefty dowries.

i got this info from a very secret hush-hush ``hindu`` newspaper and a some news channel called ndtv which the mainstream has supressed by shouting loudly at it and throwing gende-ke-phool. come to think of it, the investigative reporter, who took a camera to several abortion clinics in delhi was muslim (based on her alleged name, but it may be a ploy, how dare a real muslim report on a hindu issue like female fetus abortions)

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