The Doll’s House

I don`t mean to disrespect Indians, but everytime I read something like this I fall down on my knees and thank God that I was not born in India. What a cesspool. Our Pakistan even though a squalid hellhole in its own right seems to be a fresh gust of wind from paradise, when compared. I thank God for giving us this sweetest haven on His earth. One day we will make our country proud and strong

mouj baRhay ya aandhi aayay, diya jalayay rakhna hay
iski khaatir har dukh jhailaiN, ghar tau aakhir apna hay.


whereas I see no hope for Indian Muslims. After 58 years of independence 20% Muslims have just 2.5% representation in government and beaureaucracy whereas in Pakistan every minority far exceeds in its representation in government. In India, Muslims will be further marginalized as they are losing their citizenship rights at the hands of a shortsighted and meanspirited majority and as I see that everybody is jumping into the bandwagon of anti-Muslim hatered as a global trend. The conflict of civilizations is a concious choice that people are making at this time because they think that at present Muslims are weak and would not resist any assault on themselves and they will collapse like Soviet Empire or something. This political discontent is sure going to effect the geography soon as well. You can only hate and marginalize a group and push them against the wall to a certain extent, after that the reaction begins and that far exceeds action. Yes you can bomb 200 schools in a day and kill 9000 children like flies but then Beslan happens. And yes you can slaughter 100,000 Muslims in Kashmir, burn thousands of them alive and rape them in Gujrat; yes you can destroy their mosques and graves; yes you can destroy their countries after countries and bomb their cities to oblivion but beware if you can`t kill them now you will just make them stronger. Yes it is your time now but tide always turns.

urstruly,

``Yes it is your time now but tide always turns`` ............ can you give some estimate of an approximate time when the tide will turn .............. is it going to be at 10 am tomorrow morning, or, let`s say, next october, or is it going to be in the spring of 2040 ............. any estimate will be appreciated ...........

.... thank you, kindly ..............

hamidm

was it 9/11? just think.

Farzana,

That was well written.
Frustrations of many indians be it on social or political issues cannot always be coloured in communal terms.
I`m sure there was no communal angle when diana was killed being chased by Papprazis. Try not to inject your frustrations which are also a represntative of general muslims in india, always through the same angle. We indians in general are over-expressive about our respective religions, languages etc. Ask a north indian living in southern india or vice versa about adjustments to various things. Ask a desi grocery shop owner in US why he has to diaplay american flag after 9/11. The minority vs. majority issues are common throughout the world. Yes the degree varies certainly. Some adjustment to majority is always required everywhere.
We had the partition of india for the same reason, as some people were not willing to adjust to a changed reality. Your problem is that muslim community which remains backward due to its own reasons alos is unwilling to look at skihs, jains and christians who are growing and developing faster than majority community. Indeed partition, in the minds of indians have created some problem for the muslims in india. I`m against this nonsense of proving one`s loyalty to a nation. But reality anywhere is largely a fleeting emotion caricatured by events fresh in the minds of people. I`m sure sept. 11 has created immense problems for US muslims who are having to prove there loyalty to US in more ways then one.
On a different note though, do you believe that Gudiya would have been allowed to have her own say if Zee were not present?
Adios

congrats in advance FV, you will hit another century of interacts.

This was bound to happen...most Hindus on this board have begun to talk for all of India, even when some may not be living here...

I have posed questions to you in your capacity as Hindus because Indian Muslims are posed questions for being Muslim...IMs are looked on suspiciously not merely for terrorist attacks in Coimbatore and Kashmir (though, WHY should they be???) but also for any acts of Islamic terrorism in the world. IMs are asked why we don`t have good leaders; I ask you who are the Hindu leaders you are proud of, and don`t tell me Mahatma Gandhi...give me contemporary names among `Hindu` not Indian nationalist party leaders. If you constantly keep harping about how IMs should belong to the mainstream as though they are some creatures from outer space, then I wish to know which Hindus do not belong to the mainstream and which do...we are told you cannot brush all Hindus with the same brush, right? (Muslims of course you can...)

And while attributing arrogance to me, no one seems to have noticed that some people do not even believe one should discuss the `problem` with Hinduism, when it is open season for everyone to hold forth on the problem with Islam...

Re. Arif Mohammed and everyone`s sudden love for him as a PoW, how much discussion was held about his time in prison? Shouldn`t there have been more pertinent points raised about this than this personal life? And Arif too got media-savvy.

I am glad someone brought up the name of the other PoW, Jagsir Singh. Isn`t it interesting that no one thought it fit to probe too much into his personal life, get his wife back and hold a televised court on the matter?

If some of you can look beyond the `venom` in this article, you might see some sense in the questions.

PS: The `tolerate` Hindus was clearly a tongue-in-cheek swipe at the constant refrain of Hindus being a tolerant lot...but here who looks at tongue and who looks at cheek??

PPS: This article is not about Pakistan; all Hindus obsessed with it and therefore discussing it here are kindly requested to pack their bags and move there...
- - -

hamidm2:

You are funny and I like you and all that, but what is being discussed here is not whether Indian Muslims should have moved to Pakistan (Mumbai/Delhi can give Karachi a run for its money where the lap of luxury is concerned, and both Dr. Z and I have tasted it)...it is about why one group is expected to be like the rest in order to belong. I agree that the rest of the world have enough problems of their own...but we have some of ours too...so if this is whining, then so be it...of course the fact that people are doing their bit of whining while responding to someone who needs to get a life is very revealing to me...surprises never cease.

farzana,

that is one interesting piece of work. excellent article.

you mention that

``Why are these questions not asked in a loud voice by Muslims who are part of the mainstream? ``

I would suggest that the reason these questions are not asked is that these questions are not even coming to the mind of an average IM. The community is ALWAYS defending itself against all the stigmatic punches that are thrown at it from all over the media/politicians/organisations, hence counter questions are not raised or the questions themselves are not questioned.

as regards the literary publications of zakaria family, the less said the better.

rani, I agree with you completely. You put it the best

#38
Wow! Is that Urstruly in disguise?

Thanks FV,

It is really very interesting to see the real ``Indian educated religiously tolerant secular mindset`` when people who claim to be so secular blast you for putting your questions out and volunteer to open paypal account to throw you across the border. no where you mentioned your alegiance to Pakiland and this can only be attributed to the hindu syche which is still stuck and not ready to accept Muslims as a part of indian nation unless they adopt ``the hindu culture`` I am making gross generalization and there are quit a few indians who I am doing injustice to by puttingthem in same catagory but the mood here in the replies really unveils the hypocrisy of tolerance and secularism the Indians so proudly cliam.

#6 HN

A generally balanced reply despite farzana`s tone, except the last two points

VHP dollar funding is not used merely for proselytising its connections were found to the Gujrat Pogrom.

Secondly Hindus in india do look accusatorily at muslims for acts of international islamic terror and for Kashmir terror. infact that was the refrain of many hindus in gujrat who were interviewed post riots. vajpayee captured this mood on his goa speech when he said some thing to the effect where ever they are they spread terror. farzana is right in saying that Indian muslims have little to do with these acts or with those in Kashmir. though yes after the 92/93 pogroms in Bombay they supported the the bomb blasts secretly for they felt hindus too must feel some repurcussions and interestingly no riot took place after that in Bombay.

And to tell you the inside scoop, most indian muslims did not previously sympathise with each other until the rise of the Mandir/BJP movement in 1989. Often the cosmopolitan bombay muslims would evince little interest in the plight of the muslims of UP who were being subjected to repeated riots by the PAC, trader community and RSS/Congress, those riots were engineered quite often to get rid of muslim competition in business and get votes for the desired party, the common hindu rarely rioted against the common muslim or vice versa. This changed once the pogroms occured in bombay in 92 and 93.

neither did the rest of Indian muslims sympathise with Kashmiris, their grieviences were known only to themselves. even today the kashmiris dont care much about the rest of india`s muslims as evident in their actions.

the relationship of the indian muslims towards kashiris is subtle, they sympathise with the kashmiri`s sufferings and would like them to be given autonomy and some kind of easing in their border with pakistan, i.e. whatever makes the kashmiris happy with out having them secede from the union, confederal arrangement, joint governemnt whatever. No indian muslim wants to see India Partitioned, they love it as much as Hindus but they are not blind to its faults nor do they want the blot of traitors to be smeared on them. they just want the kashmiris to be happy, since they to have felt that sting of indian police forces too.

Also the pakistani establishment doesnt care much about indian muslims (as evident in hamidm`s remark). Infact Kuldip Nayyar once wrote in a column that when he told a Pakistani bureaucrat that pakistan`s actions in Kashmir hurt Indian muslim because it helps the Sangh to whip up anti muslim sentiment and riots, the bureaucrat replied that that is the price indian muslims will have to pay for pakistan`s sovreignity. they have repeatedly shown this atitude since the Lahore resolution of 1940.

But since the rise of the bjp and increasing antimuslim communalism and violence in the 80s muslims have started to develop some sympathy for each other, but this too is limited, in the sense that more than sympathy it is fear, muslims in delhi after the gujrat progroms suddenly started buying hoses in muslim localities and land prices jumped in Okhla, Nizammudin etc.

Farzana,
Your ignorance to answer my questions and comments in my earlier post only shows that you`re not only rhetorical but your article is completelty void of facts and based and shaped by your mal-formed ideas about India and Hindus.

You`re turning this site from the one discussed by ``intelligent and moderate pakistanis`` to a one where fundamentalists reign in with their pre-conceived notions about about India, Hindus and non-muslims in general, with post after post hailing your ``brave, courageous, exemplary and clinical`` performance of putting up 2600+ words of hateful attack.

You said:
``This was bound to happen...most Hindus on this board have begun to talk for all of India, even when some may not be living here... ``
My take:
Whom do you suggest Hindus should talk about, TIMBUKTOO? How does it matter if I stay in India or not? If you have any truthful fact supporting your ``scholarly`` essay, why don`t you post it?

You said:
``IMs are looked on suspiciously not merely for terrorist attacks in Coimbatore and Kashmir (though, WHY should they be???) but also for any acts of Islamic terrorism in the world.``
My take:
This is baseless. Nobody blames IM for terrorism in far lands.
But IMs get hurt when we blame people responsible for terrorism in the outside world, who, as it turns out, are mainly muslims. IMs need to introspect if being a muslim is a better qualification for sympathy than being a terrorist, good enough to condone it.

You said:
``If you constantly keep harping about how IMs should belong to the mainstream as though they are some creatures from outer space, then I wish to know which Hindus do not belong to the mainstream and which do...``
My take:
Where do you come from statements like these, Hindus that belong to or those that don`t, to mainstream? I missing the logic, about how it`s connnected to the question of Muslims and mainstream. Can you be a bit more clear please?
What`s about this brush that you can paint people with? I smell your boast about muslims being able to be painted with some fanatic brush.

You said:
``And while attributing arrogance to me, no one seems to have noticed that some people do not even believe one should discuss the `problem` with Hinduism``
My take:
Posting an article which spreads lies and twisted truths, and ignoring to reply to the questions raised, while still maintaining that you are dead right, is called ARROGANCE in journalistic sense.

You want to discuss the problems? OK Let`s start. Start listing what are they and what`s your problem with that. I am sure it would be another derivative from mullah manual.

You said:
``I am glad someone brought up the name of the other PoW, Jagsir Singh. Isn`t it interesting that no one thought it fit to probe too much into his personal life, get his wife back and hold a televised court on the matter? ``
My take:
Why can`t you see someone in peace? The poor guy doesn`t have any problem in his life. His life didn`t succumb to the pressure of relatives and didn`t believe that ``producing babies is the greatest service to the nation where we are major race in the world now``, like Gudiya did, or may be Gudiya wasn`t even allowed to think about that.

You said:
``If some of you can look beyond the `venom` in this article, you might see some sense in the questions. ``
My take:
Unless you reply to the questions with facts, and reveal the source of statistics that you claim to be true, it remains a piece of senseless jumble of words.
``Sense`` in it? you`re kidding! don`t you?

You said:
``PPS: This article is not about Pakistan; all Hindus obsessed with it and therefore discussing it here are kindly requested to pack their bags and move there... ``
My take:
And hindus kindly decline your request as you should seriously reconsider the relationship between your intellectual and physical position and probably move to some ****stan, as you are more likely to find like-minded fellows there.

Farzana, nothing personal, just you seem to be driven by emotions combined with religious zealousness with contrived ideas of superiority complex. Nobody blames IMs of having inferiority complex, at least, not me, honest.

But I really doubt if you really IM. If you are really in India, you seem to be more ISI(Saudi) funded, mullah managed, winked by some D-gang sympathizers.

You seem to
-have belief in facts that are contrary to evidence,
-being irritated or annoyed by things around you,
-distressed, disoriented, and uncertain about and yourself and your role in society,
in psychology these are called, delusion(psychotic belief), vexation, identity crisis.
I am not a doctor but can see that you really need help.

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Hamidm

I am a great admirer of your wit especially the ``one eyed prophet`` classic of yours but please could you stop using that pet phrase of yours ``horrible Hindu`` it isnt funny.

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Farzana Versey

Quote:

`` it is about why one group is expected to be like the rest in order to belong.``

Like it or not, answer lies in what Mr Jinnah did. For some (who are more vocal), from the majority community in India, what Mr Jinnah did was nothing short of betrayal. Since he betrayed (as per some) in the name of a community so certain things are expected by `some (who are more vocal)` from majority community. Meaning, some from the majority community expect certain things from minority community as betrayal (in the eyes of those some, from majority community) took place in the name of minority community.