The Doll’s House

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[macgupta write
My point is simply that you`re fighting the wrong battles.]

Oh so NYT is the ``word`` and its all about the women? This I am told by Mr. Gupta who comes form a nation that has refined the fine art of female genocide and faulty kitchen stoves. Please teach us how to treat women.

What you fail to understand is that ``A battle imposed cannot but be fought.``.

To all my fellow Indians :

Dear friends,

Please! Please!! refrain from reacting to this horribly communal piece of trash by making any remarks against any religion. The intent of this article is abundantely clear- it seeks to incite Indians by looking for ways to poke fun at communities and its religious practices!!!
It is a pure rabble rouser speech delivered in support of the inalienable right of a communalist person to indulge in Competitive Communalism.
By reacting to it in an abusive manner you would only help this person achieve what she wants.....................

(Quoted from the latest issue of Outlook) . . . `` I believe that we are fortunate in India where all varieties of Islam are allowed. Look at Muslim majority countries. In Saudi Arabia, you can only practice one type of Islam. In Pakistan there are attacks on Shiasand Ahmediyyas. And citizens in these countries are frustrated with the failure of democracy.`` (Najmi Waziri)

The bottomline is that the Muslims of India are free to choose their way of life.

+++

#69 Vertex:
``I don`t know much about pakiland, but I know that those Muslims who prosper in modern India do so (in/dis)spite of Hinduism. ``
Dude, you seem really childish, grow up and stop whinning.

You said:
``If Hindu bigots don`t feel that way, then they can do the world a favor and die so they can take it up with the founding fathers in their next lives. ``
My take: There you go, that`s the wish you, Farzana-bano and the wah-wah crowd is dying for. Sorry to disappoint you, Hindus and non-muslim are gonna stay in India for a million more years. Dreams are apart from reality, wake up!!!!

You said:
``But it raises a point...why is it that no Hindu is ever asked to confirm their Indianness, whereas Muslims are almost always asked if they are Muslim or Indian first? ``
My take: Because most of the terrorists & traitors have close connections with religious bigots in madrassas, that`s why.

You said:
``LOL, does your blood boil when hundreads of thousands of karsevaks literally raped and pillaged the Muslim populace, and tore down the Babri masjid?``
My take:
Why do you lie? Where do you get such news of Muslim populace being raped?
Or lying is legal under islam if done to non-muslim?

#66 Khamkha
You`re funny. Get some work that keeps you busy.

#61 Simran
I am hell sure you`re not sikh. Drop your facade and come out as rukhsana rawalpindi. Your tricks are kown as kids` tactics.

#53 fahadist
Go ahead and revive and recruit the taleban! If that inspires you. When a dog goes really made, it starts biting everyone.

#50 malik
Sleep tight on the ``insight`` you`ve been showered on. And donate half your wages to terrorist fund. That`s the only way to regress for pakistan.

#43 fahadist
You said:
``It is really very interesting to see the real ``Indian educated religiously tolerant secular mindset`` when people who claim to be so secular blast you for putting your questions out and volunteer to open paypal account to throw you across the border.``
My take:
Have fun, you would never understand the strength of diversity. You only deserve a kick in your butt by the general and a lick out of saudi ***. BT,W you guys can be excellent competitors in that sport!

Alright. Now this goes to Farzana-begum.
I really doubt that you are IM. You`re sure a brainwashed, pro-taleban, ISI-funded fanatic that`s just using a facade of IM to drive a wedge in India.

The wah-wah crowd only knows to wah-wah-excellent-wittty-blah-blah-blah babble and doesn`t come out with any answer to any of the questions. You guys are pathetic. Your source of statistics is a cat out of hat.

Why are you frozen in 642? The world has moved on to higher paths leading to space and scientific breakthroughs.

Logic doesn`t make ANY sense for madrassa students, does it?

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stooks... >> I love the Pakistani Wah Wahs on this thread. The almost orgasmic relief that Indian Muslims are unhappy. :0) <<

hahahah yes, they need that constant validation.

JohnGalt: Thanks yaar! I knew you`d understand. :)

Khamkhwa:

BaRa shor sunte thay pehloo meiN dil ka
jo cheera tou ikk qatra-e-khooN na nikla

... where are the champions of freedom of speech...

excecising their own apparently :)

#49 Ashutosh:

you said ``I havent read the book from Guru Gowalkar. But an average Hindu might expect that like any nation is that if a foreigner comes to a country he adapt himself to it not the other way around. He learn the language being used and obey the laws. Try to assimilate like Parsis have done``

i am just posting below what i had post to Dost mittar in a different context


over 95% of all muslims are local converts, even those who claim foreign ancestory have no more than one foreign ancestor among hundreds, often not even that, they may have just invented one to be included in the ashraf. Tell me is their any difference between a Musharraf and a UP Kayasth, probably if it wasnt for his uniform you would confuse him for a Saxena or mathur. Mir aslam beg maybe proud of his turkish ancestory but does he look any different from a UP Bania. Between Dilip kumar and Prithviraj kapoor going by Dilip`s soft features, Prithviraj`s rugged looks and the stereotypes you would confuse Dilip for the hindu and Prithviraj for the Pathan.

when i saw Yasser latif hamdani`s photograph i swear for a moment i thought it was my friend Bhatia. even those who have come from ``outside`` like my family have come from no further than afghanistan which has as often been part of india as independent or persian. apart from that they have been in the country for atleast 2 or more centuries, they have shed their blood, have eaten of this soil and have their ancestors interred here, they know no other place and their love for the land is no less than that of any hindu (whenever somebody askes them where are you from they always says rampur, never afghanistan no matter whether they are in Dubai, karachi or washington) and yet they are suspected of disloyalty and live in perpetual insecurity, physical and mental.

Bibi Farzana..

Thanks for tolerating the non-Muslim Indians. What would you like for them to do for you? Move to Antarctica ? Bibijee.. Hindus get killed in riots for silly reasons, such as Palestinians losing lives in some far away land or some body publishing some book to which the faithful take umbrage. Why is that ? Where is the Muslim tolerance? Please .. Hindus let others run the export import businesses, let Hajis go on pilgrimage on the majority taxpayers money. On the other hand if you think Muslims are doing all this inspite of Hindus , then may be you can learn to tolerate these Hindus don`t you think.

To my Pakistani friends .. it does not behove of you to pontificate on this topic. You would be able to do that if you let the Punjabi and Sindhi refugees to migrate back to their ancestral lands , restore their properties and let them live their lives. I am not even talking about requesting you to let the unfortunate millions that chose the state religion to survive the partition to revert to their ancestral faiths. Once you let that happen it would be nice to hear from you on how you think Hindus should adapt.

here are some links on temple desecration

http://www.flonnet.com/fl1725/17250620.htm
http://www.flonnet.com/fl1726/17260700.htm
http://www.himalmag.com/2004/february/opinion.htm

Tenali ram

you said ``Babri Masjid was a structure built by a pathetic apology of a human being over the deadbodies of the natives insulting the native culture. Your blood should boil when you think of this beastly rape to Indians. Yet, you don`t care.

You have a structure in Mecca & Masjid and all the lands where infidels have been wiped out. We have our lands/temples in India. We will build the temple at the same spot where bast*rd Babur raped a culture. You can either join us or join the Rapist. Your call !!!

If you don`t know the pain, I wish you`d go to a Mecca and Madina which has been ravaged by some other religion (say Christianity) - with a church standing on their ruins and feel the pain. Not you but the next 100 generations of Muslims. Won`t you feel like building a Masjid there ? Fair question, right ?? ``

It is true some muslim warlords and invaders pulled down deities patronised by the ruling king , but so did hindu kings. when a king wanted to punish a rebel or assert control over conquered territory this was not uncommon in the ancient and medeival world, infact Chenghis and Halaku Khans troops detroyed thousands of mosques. and indian kings too would do that to each other. Much of india was infact budhist in the first millenium after christ, and by the time the first muslims came there was hardly a trace of budhism or of their relgious stupas. Ranjit Singh of punjab converted the Lahore Jama Masjid into a stable for the armies horses.

As a historian said Kings are kings they are not christians muslims or hindus they will do whatever is necesary to perpetuate their rule and control. So a general of Jehangir`s would blind his own rebel son, as another general would put Govind Singh`s son to death, sometimes the generals would take autonomus actions so we dont know whether Jahangir actually gave the order or not, for them these were no religous figures they were rebels colecting lagaan from their lands, in the case of the marathas also looting. Shah jehan and Aurangzeb would not spare their own brothers. and all of them had hindu rajput generals, Man singh Jai Singh etc, just as Shivaji, Rana Pratap and Peshwa had muslim topchis. Infact The mughals trusted their Rajput generals both against muslims such as pathans, muslim subedars etc and Hindus such as Marathas. Infact in the war of succession between dara Shikoh, aurangzeb and murad all had hindu generals. so too with the succesor to Sher shah`s army in which hemu mal controlled the army against akbar at the 2nd battle of panipat.

dont let the sangh parivar mislead you in its quest for a vote bank how did they suddenly discover the ramjanambhoomi in 1989? muslim kings lost power over 200 years ago and india had been independent for over 40. I remember in 89 there were dozens of temples claiming that they were the true Ramjanambhoomi in ayodhya, historians actually believe that ayodhya was not its orignal name at all, the place was called Saket originally.

Babar`s campaigns are well document by himself and his court historian in which he freely admits whatever he did, (just as Ghazni and his chronicler did, often exaggerating his deeds infact , thats how we know of somnath). There is no record of Babar going to ayodhya or Saket, though a muslim general of his did, its possible he pulled down a mandir too, but it can in no way be proved that lord ram was born there since their is no historical account of his life, that is why they are so keen to settle the matter outside courts. and that is why they broke the masjid by force rather than wait for a matter which was subjudice.

It is a rallying cry for them to gather votes, once they come to power they forget about it and as soon as they are out they suddenly rediscover it, i am surprised more hindus dont realise what they are doing and instead become emotionally traped.

for muslims the sangh parivar`s message is clear you must give in if you dont we will teach you your place by force, as they did in gujrat with the tiny 8% muslim community there and in the riots that raged across India in the early 90`s.

As a constitutionalist I cannot ask the muslims to meekly accept their demands for it is a matter of upholding the law of the land, even though it has been violated repeatedly. As a liberal that is anathema to me, keeping the VHP`s demand for another 3000 aside.

even thought the BJP has ridden to power on this one issue alone

#90 citing #49

By this weird logic, should the southies expect the ``outsiders`` to adopt their local, animistic beliefs and give up their hindu beliefs? The average hindu if he is anything like what you say he is, sounds very stupid.

``Beatrice Lamb, the well-known British author, has rightly observed,``

in high-school essay writing class, we always got a 10 extra points for quoting a white guy in the essay. does white chick count as well?

in india, you always hear stuff like ``riots broke in malegaon when news of goat entrails being tossed on religious procession of a certain community spread.`` offcourse, since we watch all the hindi movies, we know that causes of all riots are fabricated.

after reading this article i find such acts as plausible. if ferzana, a cream of society convent educated woman living in (relatively) cosmopolitan mumbai, finds constant in-your-face hinduism of india (govinda, ganesh-chaturthi, and karva-chouth episode in sas-bahu Jee TV serial) suffocating, what choice does a poor weaver in malegaon have but to act out?

i expect 500 riots in brihan-mumbai alone this year, at least 2 of these due to a real entrail-throwing reason.