The Trouble With Irshad Manji

A very well written comments. I have placed these comments at my website too and I encourage your readers to read my website also which is available at www.goonjmedia.com thanks

Professor Dr Khalid Rashid Sager
drsager@hotmail.com
Sydney, Australia
www.goonjmedia.com

I agree with the observations of Mst Bina Shah. Irshad Manji has acted poorly in the hands of the disinformers. Perhaps she is already under some misconception/impression which she has reiterated innher work also. We are confused infront of the overwhelming dominance of the western media and the values of the west. We tend to forget the best of the vlaues of west are infact an inspiration from Islam.

As Manji is professedly a lesbian why should she be concerned with Islam which does not deal with gays or lesbians who have complete cults of their own. No doubt sex is an important subject of Islam which does provide `Ghilman` to cater to the homosexuals perhaps in `Jannat` but in the life of this world it allows only wives and loundies for heterosexuals only. No place for homosexuals or the sexless (Khusras and Phandars) in Islam.

Re: # 218

I think you are mistaken regarding provision of Ghilman to cater the needs of homosexuals because as far as I know there would not be the same sort of sex in paradise as we have in this world because there would be no more child births. It may be possible that the pleasure which people would get would be of different kind. Thanks
For more elaboration you can read my website at www.goonjmedia.com
Prof Dr Khalid Rashid Sager
drsager@hotmail.com
Sydney, Australia

My trouble with Manji is that she should be open about what her real motives are. It`s simple for any observer to notice. She`s all about business. These days there is good money in making anti-Islamic remarks. Plus the added sensationalization of her being a lesbian...who can resist attention. I don`t think decent sincere muslims should waste their energies pondering her words. She`s just trying to make a living and carve a niche for herself. It has nothing to do with her ideals or Islam or anything, she`s just using it for personal gain. Ignore her and she`ll go away.

interesting read.

my problem with her:

I`d be more convinced by Manji`s call for a Muslim reformation if she didn`t spend most of her time climbing on right wing podiums in order to make the call to non-Muslim audiences just as I`d be more convinced by her criticism of the left if she wasn`t making it from the perch of the right wing media. It seems to be more a matter of reaffirming the attitudes of right wingers and non-Muslims (and saying you can like me because I`m not like them) than actually engaging Muslims and leftists in dialogue.


Telling Muslims ``we need to change`` is not the same thing as telling non-Muslims ``those Muslims need to change``.

PM,

You asked me if I had more information on the mysterious writer of Christoph Luxemburg. I have plenty. As to date there will appear a refusing review of his work in the Journal Jerusalem Studies of Arabic and Islam (2004), and another review in the Journal of Higher Criticism by the Semiticist Thomas Bauer.

--Ibn

Romair,

Regarding your inquiry about definition of a non/Muslim, I think teshah (#210) has summed it up well.

I remember reading a hadith along the same lines ... where the dear Prophet (pbuh) reportedly stated that ... one who declares another a non-Muslim, himself goes out of the circle of Islam.

I think this declaration of non-Muslim issue is rooted in fanaticism ... where Islam is treated as a political ideology ... and not faith. As we continue to see (in the case of Shia community, as well as Ahmadis), such declarations have only led to more fanaticism and division. It is for this reason, as I have understood, that Quran as well as the dear Prophet (pbuh) refrained from allowing one to declare others as non-Muslims.

... hope this helps.

Re: # 214
If we dont draw a line then everybody would claim to be a Muslim while breaking the laws of religion. The classic example is Irshad Manji who clearly does not believe in the five pillars of Islam and somehow still feels that she is a Muslim. Coming to the point of Qadiyanis, Ahmedis, Lahoris off course they are not Muslims because they deny that our Holy Prophet Hazrat Mohammed(SAW) was the final Prophet of Allah. Therefore they were finally declared non-Muslims after much blood shed. I can safely say that the shias in sahaba kerams time may not deserve to be called non Muslims but todays Shias are certainly out of fold of Islam as they openly abuse Sahaba Kiram and Hazrat Ayesha(RAA). For some political reasons or others they are not being openly declared Kafirs but they have nothing to do with main stream Islam. For further references please read my articles at my website www.goonjmedia.com

I am also open for decent discussion with any Qadiyani, Ahemdi, Lahori or Shia to explain him or her my views.
Professor Dr Khalid Rashid Sager
Sydney, Australia
www.goonjmedia.com
drsager@hotmail.com

PM,
hamidmji is not against jihad. He just wants a different type of jihad. Instead of propagating a certain brand of theology by the ``sword`` he wants to propagate capitalism by the sword. He wants the US to reform the bedouins but not the lahoris. He`s as much of a fundamentalist only his belief system is different.

re. hamidm:

`` the us was not wrong in trying to fight communism in vietnam, it was wrong in not doing everything to win ............. it was wrong to allow the people of vietnam to suffer under communism for the next three decades .......... ``

Gee, haven`t heard the Commie bogeyman threat for some years now. Didn`t think I`d hear it again, either...

So, hamidm miaN, lets take your contention to it`s logical conclusion then... you would, even given 20/20 vision of hindsight, support the US- invasion of China and, say, Cuba in the 60s, and have them do the job properly this(that) time, rather than merely kill off 3 mil. natives and lose 60,000 U.S fodder in the deal.

Jolly good!! I can see someone`s done a number on you real good. Waisey, I didn`t know Joe McCarthys still preached and were listened to where you are.

And I suppose you`re also going to tell me that dropping the A-bomb on Nagasaki (not Hiroshima) was also of absolute necessity to stop Japanese expansionist designs, eh?

``..... individual case of cruelty, torture and barbarism must be punished under any military`s law -``

Bombing a wedding in middle of nowhere is not an individual act of cruelty. In fact, cruelty implies an intent that is absent here. What we`re talking about is the willfull categorization of fellow human beings as something much less...as inanimate objects no less.

``something that terrorist organizations lack .......... but individual bad behavior does not nullify the just cause ..........``

It doesn`t matter if you`re talking about Abu Gharib or a General deciding to use air power instead of ground troops even though the former will cause orders of magnitude more casualties (and save some on your side as well). It is not a bad apple that we have to worry about. It`s the whole damn ``instituion``.

``the us was not wrong in trying to fight communism in vietnam, it was wrong in not doing everything to win``

Yet, the Americans killed, and I`ll use the term again, orders of magnitude more Vietnamese than the Commies could ever aspire too. With hindsight, we can only see that the Americans were doing to others exactly what they (in a most paranoid manner) thought the commies were out to do to them.

``............. it was wrong to allow the people of vietnam to suffer under communism for the next three decades ..........``

Ahh yes, better dead than free...not so noble when it`s them dying for your paranoid discomfort.

Freak.

Romair

``What I am asking for is whether there are clear cut instructions in Islam, regarding how to declare someone a non-Muslim. And who has the authority to declare someone a non-Muslim. Is it to be done by majority vote? Is it to be done by a group of ulema? etc. etc.``

According to the Quran it is only Allah Who can decide who is a `Momin` and who is a just `Muslim`- vide my post at 182 . Momin is one who believes in Islam and muslim means one who submits to the power that be to save themselves. There is another category called `Munafiqeen` who call them muslims only to exploit Islam`s name as the most politicians and the mullah are in Pakiland.

In Pakistan,however, it is the Parliament which has userped the powers of Allah and has declared a section of the citizens of Pakistan, a minority community claiming themselves to be true muslims, as non-muslims. So in Pakistan only the majority decides who is a non-muslim. It is, however , yet not been decided as to who is muslim as agitation is going on
to get the Shia community also declared as non-muslim. In fact, according to the SH one who does not cosider Shias as `Kafir` is also kafir. So Paki Parliament of Bhutto brand has created a new sect of muslims `Halfi Muslims`, i.e., the citizens who submit a Hallafnama condemning one Mirza Ghulam Ahmad exclusively as an imposter prophet. Is it not theocracy going berzerk!

PM,

..... individual case of cruelty, torture and barbarism must be punished under any military`s law - something that terrorist organizations lack .......... but individual bad behavior does not nullify the just cause .......... the us was not wrong in trying to fight communism in vietnam, it was wrong in not doing everything to win ............. it was wrong to allow the people of vietnam to suffer under communism for the next three decades ..........

Malik (#170): ... you said ...

...However, qadiyanis have to be tolerant and sensitive towards muslim majority too...

Agreed ... but pray, tell me ... how have Ahmadis been insensitive towards ``Muslim majority``?

When a ``Muslim`` is offended by an Ahmadi considering himself a Muslim ... and he wants to imprison an Ahmadi for ``posing as a Muslim`` ... tell me ... who is being insensitive here??

Sahib ... no one can rightfully legislate persecution of others over religious differences. Ahmadis convey the message of Quran as they understand it ... and so should you. Let Allah decide this matter. He is All Powerful ... and will certainly help those on the right track ... (that is, if you believe in the message of Quran).

++++++++++++++++

The issue comes back to the violent and fanatic tendencies of your mullah. Before the west, the jews, and the CIA are blamed ... the ummah needs to figure out where they went wrong. My personal opinion is that the ummah is being humiliated ... because they became too arrogant and corrupt. This theme is repeated over and over again in Quran ... but if only you reflect ...

Hamidm contends there is no such thing as state-sponsored terrorism. Would this cause him to reconsider his position or will he insist that the US went into Vietnam for humanitarian reasons, or even if they honestly beleived they did, if that was good enough reason:

LEST WE FORGET

War Crimes Hearings by Veterans - Sgt. Scott Camil of the 1st Marine Division, in Vietnam from March 1966 until November 1967, explained that the main thing was that if an operation was covered by the press there were certain things we weren`t supposed to do, but if there was no press there, it was okay. I saw one case where a woman was shot by a sniper, one of our snipers. When we got up to her she was asking for water. And the lieutenant said to kill her. So he ripped off her clothes, they stabbed her in both breasts, they spread her eagle and shoved an E tool up her vagina, an entrenching tool, and she was still asking for water. And then they took that out and they used a tree limb and then she was shot.

* Lest We Forget and Repeat the Past

http://www.pnews.org/PhpWiki/index.php/NamWarCrimesHearings