The Trouble With Irshad Manji

In an interview, Irshad Manji had this to say about her religious affliations

``Irshad Manji: I don’t really need to be religious but I think I’am spiritual. There are certain rituals associated with Islam that I do practice because they speak to my integrity. For example I fast during the month of Ramadam because It helps me build character, discipline and empathy with the poor. These are values I believe in. I give ‘Zakat’, the system of charity under Islam. Those who have wealth give it away to those who do not. This rotation of wealth is a way to balance social inequality. I give more that is expected from me actually. But, at the same time, I do not pray in the conventional Muslim way. I did that until my mid-twenties but I realised that this was nothing more than an insignificant ritual. And I care enough about my relationship with God to inject it with more meaning which is why I have still spontaneous conversations with my creator. And finally, I refuse to do the pilgrimage to Mecca as long as Mecca excludes Jews and Christians for being on it soil. I don’t need to be religious in order to feel very comfortable to be a Muslim.``

One would be naive to believe Muslims would heed to her call, much in the same vein one would be naive--and blind--to believe Muslims would accept Gunter Luling`s Uber Der Koran lock, stock and barrel.

--Ibn

hamidm# 74

your arrival at this thread reminded me of the potohari proverb ``aggay dhunn pleet hayee, uttooN khotay aan mootrya eh``

[Rough translation: The pond was already scummy and to add insult to the injury a donkey peed in it as well]

English equivalent: adding insult to the injury

It is people like Amit who perpetuate ignorance and hatred, by not telling the truth...

``I get disgusted when I see scenes of temples where people are worshipping live rats. That does not mean that I want my religion to be dead. I want it to be better, more egalitarian and more relevant to my life. ``

Are people ``worshipping`` (find out what that word means ). Also what is wrong
in having a temple for rats ? why not ? Of course,because of your prim victorian
thought process, you are disgusted.
I am disgusted of superficial people like you.

Also what has ``egalitarian`` go to do with dharma ? Those who study and understand
adhyatma vidya will get moksha - others will die and be born again. It is not as if
you can just say ``I believe`` and you will be ``saved`` (whatever that means ?)


Amit also states:
``Currently some people have hijacked the religion and are misinterpreting it to create the specter of global terrorism ``

Dude, so now you want to teach mullahs what Islam is about eh ?
Do you know how to read arabic ? What in the world do you know about the koran.
Dont display your pathetic ignorance. Spend some time atleast reading the translations
and what experts say on the matter. Dont bore us with your useless drivel.

People like you are dangerous - because of the lies you speak and the manipulations
that you indulge in. You dont have the courage to be truthful.

re. Bruce_Lee:
re. ``This scrutiny in the modern democratic secular and non secular world is the inevitable response to the screeds and slander that Islam has propagated throughout history across the world and against most other religions in order to spread and prosletyse itself.``

Bruce, buddy, Shanolin Temple is obviously not the best place to learn history!

re amit: #15
``It does not take rocket science to realize that the Islamic world needs some serious introspection, given that the rest of the world is virtually at war with them across the globe.``

True, Islamia has its problems to solve, but the fact that ``the whole world`` -- which one could argue is the more correctly the whole US-led part of the world really-- ``...has its problems with them`` is not, in itself a proof of wrong-doing. Two problems here: One, the lumping of various problems in which Muslims are involved into a cosnolidated ``Islamic`` issue may not be fair. Secondly, insofar as it is true that Muslims feel a sense of solidarity with ``Muslims causes``, once can hardly expect those under siege to be involved in ``serious inrospection`` from all quarters.

In any case, a cursory glance through the newspapers` opinion columns in Pakistan (probably the best microcosm for Islamia at large) suggest that there is in fact ample introspection going on.

re. Bruce_Lee:
re. ``This scrutiny in the modern democratic secular and non secular world is the inevitable response to the screeds and slander that Islam has propagated throughout history across the world and against most other religions in order to spread and prosletyse itself.``

Bruce, buddy, Shanolin Temple is obviously not the best place to learn history!

re amit: #15
``It does not take rocket science to realize that the Islamic world needs some serious introspection, given that the rest of the world is virtually at war with them across the globe.``

True, Islamia has its problems to solve, but the fact that ``the whole world`` -- which one could argue is the more correctly the whole US-led part of the world really-- ``...has its problems with them`` is not, in itself a proof of wrong-doing. Two problems here: One, the lumping of various problems in which Muslims are involved into a cosnolidated ``Islamic`` issue may not be fair. Secondly, insofar as it is true that Muslims feel a sense of solidarity with ``Muslims causes``, once can hardly expect those under siege to be involved in ``serious inrospection`` from all quarters.

In any case, a cursory glance through the newspapers` opinion columns in Pakistan (probably the best microcosm for Islamia at large) suggest that there is in fact ample introspection going on.

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This is another side track. neither Irshad manji or Al Qauida deserve so much attention...they are two ends of the extreme. Personally I don`t know may people who subscribe to either viewpoint but it makes good copy. If Manji wants to be a vocal muslim lesbian then why not let her get on with it? How does it affect us directly anyhow?

``Mordant_Muslim, Urstruly, Hamidm,Amit, Mohar, ballukhan etc

talk is cheap why dont you do something to help improve the lot of the poor, like anil has done, rather than look for religous or secular messiahs ``

Those who preach others should themselves practice first- do cut down the size of your posts !!!

...... ijtihad is nonsense !

``Nothing will be solved by searching for ``true Islam`` or quoting the Quran. The Quran is a vast, vague book, filled with poetry and contradictions (much like the Bible).

You can find in it condemnations of war and incitements to struggle, beautiful expressions of tolerance and stern strictures against unbelievers. Quotations from it usually tell us more about the person who selected the passages than about Islam. `` ........... fareed zakaria

........... therfore the conclusion :hamidm is good and urstruly is bad

Hypocrties are those persons who seek to justify their vile criminal and murderous actions in the name of the religion of peace and mouth religious slogans in order to justify their fascistic intents!! These criminal two penny jahils think that they can destroy Islam by demonstrating their vileness to the world and attributing it to Islam-

Rascals!!!

Ibn
//...I live in one of those `western` countries. ..//

I thought so. So why are you a ``skeptic of secularism`` ?

Mordant_Muslim:
Can I have your autograph, pleeez? :)

Amit

In all honesty, I fail to see the religious component in the various political struggles that Muslims are undertaking around the globe. Not just rhetorically, but in fact what does it mean when a statement is made such as ``Islam has been hijacked by some people.....who are using it to.......``? Does it mean that we have to ``reform`` the ``abductee`` to prevent its abduction? Or do we have to separate the political issues from the religious ones which are lumped together by the people who do not want a solution to the problems? Does suicide bombings in Palestine have a political component as well? Does beheadings in Iraq have a political aspect as well? Should we demand from `people who have hijacked the religion` that unless they reform their religion, their political demands cannot be met.

``.............. uh?....... for those of you who might be having a hard time understanding this gobbeldygook let me explain it in simple words ............. here is what he is trying to say: `` in order to save their souls from eternal damnation caused by exposure to the immorality and decadence of the west, muslims have to reject common horse sense, aristotle and einstein and hang on to their faith in winged creatures, hobgoblins and jinns`` ................ it is that simple!``

Firstly, my call for Islam to trascend itself has nothing to do with rejection of Aristotle, Popper, Ayer, Rand, Kant, James, Plato, or Marx. My call was to ask for Muslims to see Islam as a faith, not an ideology. Morever, anyone who simply reads ``Aristotle`` without reflection is no better than a fundamentalist.

``and pray who might they be, and how come nobody has heard of them (yet)? ......... when are they going to reveal themself to poor abdul who is still upending himself five times a day and shopping for explosive belts?``

Sugary nonsense draped noxious wording.

--Ibn

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sridhar

I cant help it if you cant read a post straight.

I said islam cannot be reformed by an individual`s effort. why dont you give it a shot try changing the quran and see how many follow you, take hamidm along if you like but I think he is too smart to go on this errand.

islamic societies can only be changed through education and socio economic development. The way Kerala has with little money, and the way the west has over the past few centuries. the so called reformation of martin luther created an even more antisemitic christianity and led to a return to a literal interpretation of the testaments, that is what is meant by a return to fundamentals and it is from there that we get the term Fundamentalist.

HDI might be an unreliable index for you but it isnt so for economists. Lastly I never claimed industrial unrest doesnt take place in Kerala, just as it does in other socialist countries.

The problem is its easy to write books and drink wine and its difficult to go out and spread literacy, education and health care in third world societies. as long as that doesnt happen ignorance, bigotry and fundamentalism will reign as they did in the west and india for millenia.