Ras Siddiqui October 10, 2004
#30 Posted by tahmed32 on October 12, 2004 6:48:36 am
Hamidm says Pakistanis are a nation of sheep. So, here is a message for all Pakistanis:
#29 Posted by fuzair on October 12, 2004 6:48:36 am
Romair et al,
Tsk, tsk, tsk. Don`t forget that St. Bill Clinton the Good told us that the solution for a bad democracy is more democracy. ;-) So the ``cure`` for Nawaz Sharif`s travesty of a Parliamentary democracy was the Sharia bill. Al HamduLillah, ab to hum sacchay musalmaan bunnaen gay!
That is like saying that the cure for alcoholism is more alcohol!
Now Hamidm would argue that for Pakistan, if democracy is alcoholism, then the Army is crack/PCP. Maybe so if you want to compare Junejo to Zia. But who would seriously argue that the Musharraf government, pathetic though it is in some (many?) ways is the best government we have had for at least the past two decades plus? This is not to sing the virtues of Musharraf but to point out that in the land of the blind, the one eyed man is king.
I agree that Musharraf has been disappointing in quite a few ways but give me a three way race between him, NS and BB, there is no contest.
Tsk, tsk, tsk. Don`t forget that St. Bill Clinton the Good told us that the solution for a bad democracy is more democracy. ;-) So the ``cure`` for Nawaz Sharif`s travesty of a Parliamentary democracy was the Sharia bill. Al HamduLillah, ab to hum sacchay musalmaan bunnaen gay!
That is like saying that the cure for alcoholism is more alcohol!
Now Hamidm would argue that for Pakistan, if democracy is alcoholism, then the Army is crack/PCP. Maybe so if you want to compare Junejo to Zia. But who would seriously argue that the Musharraf government, pathetic though it is in some (many?) ways is the best government we have had for at least the past two decades plus? This is not to sing the virtues of Musharraf but to point out that in the land of the blind, the one eyed man is king.
I agree that Musharraf has been disappointing in quite a few ways but give me a three way race between him, NS and BB, there is no contest.
#27 Posted by Romair on October 12, 2004 5:28:06 am
Just had a discussion with the guy who runs one of the IT sections for NAB. The stuff he told me about Zardari and Benazir makes one sad to be a Pakistani. Thirteen proven off-shore companies. 20,000 pages of documents marking corruption. A conviction in the session and high courts of Switzerland, and pending in the Supreme Court. A conviction on Surrey Estate in all courts of England, after which Surrey estate has been sold.
This guy sat in a court hearing of Zardari, as a witness. He said Zardari`s men openly came and threatened to destroy the familie of one of the other witnesses, right in front of him.
There is a book titled, ``The Sink,`` which highlights all the money laundering that takes place in the world, specifically through Carribean companies and Canada. I asked the author of that book about Benazir. He came out with a charge sheet, which, once again makes one sad to be a Pakistani. He had her name up there with all the lumanaries of African banana republics. He basically validated everything the NAB guy had later said.
He pointed out that Benazir is under a lot of pressure now, because if she is convicted by the final level of courts in Switzerland, she will be wanted in all of the EU. At that point, no one will be inviting her to speak in the Bay area. I am surprised they invite her now.
Anyways, she is, ``democratic,`` ``secular,`` and, ``liberal`` (not to mention the lifetime head of the largest feudal party in Pakistan). So we must all bow down to her and welcome her as a saviour.
If there is a contest between Benazir and Qazi Hussain, I am not voting. But if a gun is held to my head, my vote goes to Qazi Sahib...........
This guy sat in a court hearing of Zardari, as a witness. He said Zardari`s men openly came and threatened to destroy the familie of one of the other witnesses, right in front of him.
There is a book titled, ``The Sink,`` which highlights all the money laundering that takes place in the world, specifically through Carribean companies and Canada. I asked the author of that book about Benazir. He came out with a charge sheet, which, once again makes one sad to be a Pakistani. He had her name up there with all the lumanaries of African banana republics. He basically validated everything the NAB guy had later said.
He pointed out that Benazir is under a lot of pressure now, because if she is convicted by the final level of courts in Switzerland, she will be wanted in all of the EU. At that point, no one will be inviting her to speak in the Bay area. I am surprised they invite her now.
Anyways, she is, ``democratic,`` ``secular,`` and, ``liberal`` (not to mention the lifetime head of the largest feudal party in Pakistan). So we must all bow down to her and welcome her as a saviour.
If there is a contest between Benazir and Qazi Hussain, I am not voting. But if a gun is held to my head, my vote goes to Qazi Sahib...........
#26 Posted by Urstruly on October 11, 2004 9:15:08 am
I think Benazir is not only incompetent as a politician but also as a leader and an administrator. She has no vision and offers no hope for the future Pakistan except a chance for herself to be camplacent. I think she has finally convinced herself that she is not the `next best thing`. A person who has no hope for herself cannot have hope for the people who follow her. zardari was the biggest mistake of her life - probably zardari now thinks the same way about her. Anyway, Benazir is just a lost cause now. If she ever becomes a prime minister again she would only make our lives further miserable. There is no hope.
#25 Posted by kaurasach on October 11, 2004 7:44:07 am
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#24 Posted by Nadia_Zehra on October 11, 2004 7:01:13 am
aur sab bhuul gaye harf-e-sadaaqat likhanaa
rah gayaa kaam hamaaraa hii baGaavat likhanaa
laakh kahate rahe.n zulmat ko na zulmat likhanaa
ham ne siikhaa hii nahii.n pyaare baa_ijaazat likhanaa
na sile kii na sitaa_ish kii tamannaa ham ko
haq me.n logo.n ke hamaarii to hai aadat likhanaa
-Habib Jalib
rah gayaa kaam hamaaraa hii baGaavat likhanaa
laakh kahate rahe.n zulmat ko na zulmat likhanaa
ham ne siikhaa hii nahii.n pyaare baa_ijaazat likhanaa
na sile kii na sitaa_ish kii tamannaa ham ko
haq me.n logo.n ke hamaarii to hai aadat likhanaa
-Habib Jalib
#23 Posted by aquaris on October 11, 2004 7:01:13 am
Just an off the Cuff inquiry...
Any New about Zulfiqar Ali Bhutto Jr.....
Heard they are preparing him for the Next round of PPP era in Pakistan.....
which May start in 2010 or so.....
#22 Posted by Nadia_Zehra on October 11, 2004 7:01:13 am
Typo :19 by Nadia_Zehra on October 10, 2004 11:39pm PT
...96 Elections.
.........................................................................
Plus If anyone have any account of Amalysis of Elections of 96 by Late Razia Bhatti founder of Magazine ``NewsLine``. She had many shocks and surprises in it. Anybody know then please come out.
...96 Elections.
.........................................................................
Plus If anyone have any account of Amalysis of Elections of 96 by Late Razia Bhatti founder of Magazine ``NewsLine``. She had many shocks and surprises in it. Anybody know then please come out.
#21 Posted by M.B.Z.Isphahani on October 11, 2004 7:01:12 am
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#20 Posted by cipram on October 11, 2004 12:58:02 am
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#19 Posted by hassansiddiqi on October 10, 2004 11:39:39 pm
Hamidm2 #14 -
Its true that the military has indirectly been involved in most democratic institutions for a long time. However, it is also true that politicians like Benazir are not exactly saints.
You accuse Musharraf of creating radicals in the country. I believe radicals came about from the time of Zia`s rule and they have been allowed to flourish during the tenures of Benazir and Sharif. These two politicians could have done something about these radicals but they didnt do anything about it.
You also accuse Musharraf of bankrupting the country. I don`t know where you got that from. Musharraf is responsible for all the economic benefits Pakistan has been getting since we ditched the Taliban (right decision in my opinion).
We need someone who has the guts to confront radicals for who they are. The majority of people in Pakistan support Musharraf because he is not creating Swiss bank accounts like Benazir. He is fighting radicals who call themselves Muslims....something that Benazir could have done when she was the PM.
I agree with the idea that military rulers should not control political institutions in Pakistan. However, at this point, we dont really have anyone better than Musharraf to lead the country. If we have competent leaders who are not tainted with corruption scandals, maybe we can then think about removing Musharraf. For now, he is the best hope for us.
#18 Posted by Nadia_Zehra on October 10, 2004 11:39:39 pm
Well, The article is not that strongly written or the circumstances are nowadaysa taken such turns that voices are looking feeble. However the interacts are more interesting to read.
As a Female who herself is a in a profession is urging Ms. Bhutto :
#15 by cipram on October 10, 2004 7:22pm PT
banazir,you missed the bus.
so be silent ,and take care of your children.
.
.
I can only say Democracy is a slow process as it takes the children to grow up.
And another female made such a personal comment:
#9 by xeneb on October 10, 2004 2:36pm PT
...numbers and ratios dont make you a political leader. popularity means nothing, a point which has been proved time and time again through beauty pageants, the new fad of reality television and even political misgivings, such as the mockery of the demcratic system that the US is accused off.
benazir bhutto, NOR the pp is the voice of majority of the people of the country. oru masses do not have voice. they have temporary political bandwagons that they jump on and off, because of personal loyalties, money or circumstances....
Well I think its numbers and ratios which make up the democracy otherwise it is dictatorship which have we suffering since long. So you are also outlandishing the rights of poulation. Democracy cannot be achieved in a few years with few faces. Let the people make decisions and then have the consequences. You cannot deny the truth that PPP upn defeat in 93` as well had the biggest number of total votes of Pakistan. And this Party has a history of burning struggle against army. And very brutually its memebrs have suffered institutional resistance of Army. By blaming BB you cannot sideline the efforts of this party and its struggle towards Democracy. And if time is hard nowadays then we cannot quote that ``Army can give birth to stable democracy.`` What we lack is the People in participation of Rules, Policies and their opinions are trashed by enforcment of Army. Well what economy is getting? I am seeing they are taking debts after debts.
As a Female who herself is a in a profession is urging Ms. Bhutto :
#15 by cipram on October 10, 2004 7:22pm PT
banazir,you missed the bus.
so be silent ,and take care of your children.
.
.
I can only say Democracy is a slow process as it takes the children to grow up.
And another female made such a personal comment:
#9 by xeneb on October 10, 2004 2:36pm PT
...numbers and ratios dont make you a political leader. popularity means nothing, a point which has been proved time and time again through beauty pageants, the new fad of reality television and even political misgivings, such as the mockery of the demcratic system that the US is accused off.
benazir bhutto, NOR the pp is the voice of majority of the people of the country. oru masses do not have voice. they have temporary political bandwagons that they jump on and off, because of personal loyalties, money or circumstances....
Well I think its numbers and ratios which make up the democracy otherwise it is dictatorship which have we suffering since long. So you are also outlandishing the rights of poulation. Democracy cannot be achieved in a few years with few faces. Let the people make decisions and then have the consequences. You cannot deny the truth that PPP upn defeat in 93` as well had the biggest number of total votes of Pakistan. And this Party has a history of burning struggle against army. And very brutually its memebrs have suffered institutional resistance of Army. By blaming BB you cannot sideline the efforts of this party and its struggle towards Democracy. And if time is hard nowadays then we cannot quote that ``Army can give birth to stable democracy.`` What we lack is the People in participation of Rules, Policies and their opinions are trashed by enforcment of Army. Well what economy is getting? I am seeing they are taking debts after debts.
#17 Posted by Siddiqua on October 10, 2004 11:39:38 pm
Whether anybody likes it or not, the PPP is the only party that has managed to keep its vote bank intact. This is a ground reality one has to face and take into account.
There certainly must be reasons for this. I have neither the time nor the inclination to go into them. Socio-political pundits abound, and they do, and will keep on ``researching`` this.
The most important point to consider, in my opinion, and I am open to correction, is why do people vote for the PPP and the MQM(Altaf)?
Apparently it seems to be due to a total, absolute, and abject failure on the part of those upon whom the responsibility of building a collective social conscience devolves; i. e., the mass media, and those other political parties who claim to be ``honest``, ``patriotic``, ``genuinely committed to serve the people``, etc.
In the context of Pakistan, two institutions more than any other, are responsible for the rotten mess the country is in. The press and the judiciary . . .
There certainly must be reasons for this. I have neither the time nor the inclination to go into them. Socio-political pundits abound, and they do, and will keep on ``researching`` this.
The most important point to consider, in my opinion, and I am open to correction, is why do people vote for the PPP and the MQM(Altaf)?
Apparently it seems to be due to a total, absolute, and abject failure on the part of those upon whom the responsibility of building a collective social conscience devolves; i. e., the mass media, and those other political parties who claim to be ``honest``, ``patriotic``, ``genuinely committed to serve the people``, etc.
In the context of Pakistan, two institutions more than any other, are responsible for the rotten mess the country is in. The press and the judiciary . . .
#16 Posted by malik99 on October 10, 2004 9:01:49 pm
hamidm writes ``....... i think the pakis should seriously consider moving to afghanistan .......... a muslim country that has just held fair and free elections ......... maybe we should get the UN to do the same in pakistan ? no?``
hamid sahib, now that Afghanistan has emerged as the bastion of democracy with fair and free elections, I suppose americans should be moving there too, no?
Or perhaps we can have afghan election officials monitor and administer Nov 2 elections in US to make sure that the fraud of 2000 does not happen, no?
hamid sahib, now that Afghanistan has emerged as the bastion of democracy with fair and free elections, I suppose americans should be moving there too, no?
Or perhaps we can have afghan election officials monitor and administer Nov 2 elections in US to make sure that the fraud of 2000 does not happen, no?
#15 Posted by hamidm2 on October 10, 2004 7:22:47 pm
``Pakistan needs people who are responsible enough to get the economy in a better shape and eliminate armed radicals in this country. Musharraf is the best man for this job. ``
.........who has bankrupted the country and who has created the armed radicals that mr hassan now wants to eliminate ?!............... it is truly frigtening how the feeble-minded sheep that pass for pakistanis actually believe in the crap that the army has dished out to them for years and years ....... they forget that the army has directly or indirectly run the country - everything from wapda to the railways to the cricket control board - for almost thirty years ..........
.......... maybe the people of pakistan don`t deserve any better ...... pathetic fools!
.........who has bankrupted the country and who has created the armed radicals that mr hassan now wants to eliminate ?!............... it is truly frigtening how the feeble-minded sheep that pass for pakistanis actually believe in the crap that the army has dished out to them for years and years ....... they forget that the army has directly or indirectly run the country - everything from wapda to the railways to the cricket control board - for almost thirty years ..........
.......... maybe the people of pakistan don`t deserve any better ...... pathetic fools!
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