Is Islam Anti-Semitic?

Arjun: The best thing someone of a lesser mind should do is never address me with their paki vs india and Hindu vs Muslim crap. The vast majority of the people on his site are of a lesser mind so they blindly end up supporting the nation they were born into or the religion they were born into. This requires no thinking. You guys are blind robots.

And no im not a jihadi apologist. In fact I bet i can argue both yours and his points better then you guys can. Your just baised robots. If you were born in pakistan you would be supporting islam.

And who says india is poorer then pakistan? Thats nonsense. Why do these mullahs have such a strong hold on poor pakistani`s? THINK ABOUT IT. The current government does nothing for pakistani children. The mullahs give them an education (be it a very biased and ignorant one).

Terrorists are and have always been born as a DIRECT result of POVERTY (be it percieved or actual). You are correct that suadis are well off. Ill also add that most suicide bombers in the occupied territories are well off. That does NOT negate the fact that they believe they are fighting for a people who are oppressed.

``THE BATTLE OF THE POOR IS TERRORISM, The Battle of the rich is war``

By the way: How do you arrive at the figures for terrorist per capita? Are the americans not terrorists? Are the bristish not terrorists? Or are all terrorists actions limited to Muslims?

drum
//...Spain was not the only advanced muslim nation. Baghdad, Mali, Sufi India etc were ripe with scientific study and Islamic pluralism.But all that sh1t is discarded because it doesnt support your view point that islam is intolerant//

Take it easy man - I didn`t intend to discard anything. You have a good point. Baghdad, Mali(???), Sufism were/are shining examples of tolerant islam. Another example in present times is Islam/muslims in Indonesia, even though things are changing rapidly there , for the worst. Arabized Islam creeping into that country.

So instead of discarding these examples - I am actually encouraged by it. Because, it gives a frame of reference .... it may also give a platform to those would be reformers to reform islam and bring it back to the days of Spain, Baghdad, Mali, Sufism.

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//...This poverty creates the ATMOSPHERE for bin ladens etc to exist....//

Really? I thought bin laden is from billionaire family .... and from a country(saudi Arabia) whose per capita income at one point was higher than US. Come on - this theory of ``Poverty breeds islamic terrorism`` has been proved to be cr@p long time ago. In fact it is the opposite - islamic terrorism has been bred, fed, produced by the riches of Arab world, Saudis in particular.

And anycase - this is exactly what I am talking about. Excuses and more excuses. Instead of railing against ``ivory tower scholars`` for speaking the truth - you should be out there doing something else.

I mean, instead of laying this Baghda/Mali/Sufism sugar-candy on me - why don`t you spread it out in front of muslims at large??? Forget the silly ``ivory tower scholars`` - If you think Islam was tolerant/pluralistic at one point of time then why don`t spread that message loud and clear among muslim communities?? ........ Why don`t you call a town-hall meeting in Saudi Arabia and tell them - ``Folks, this is what we had at one point of time -remember Spain?? Now, Let`s go back to that, Let`s go back pluralism and modernity ... Kafirs are Allah`s children too ... Let women drive ... Let others pray their gods while they are in Saudi land ... Let`s go back to Sufism``.

And then come back and tell me how that meeting went. If you can come back at all, in one piece.

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Mohar: Ur selectively picking and choosing from history those incidences which support your preconcieved notions (this iz not scientific).

READ about Islamic history. You are conveniently refering to ur views on modern day islam an extrapolating them upon Islam as a whole. Spain was not the only advanced muslim nation. Baghdad, Mali, Sufi India etc were ripe with scientific study and Islamic pluralism. But all that sh1t is discarded because it doesnt support your view point that islam is intolerant.

Now Let me ask you WHY did the islamic world change. Why did baghdad of 500 years ago be baghdad of today? Which one represents Islam? Why? Ill Give u a hint. This sh1t has less to do with religion and more to do with politics and the economy.

It disgusts me to see all these ivory tower ``scholars`` chastise those who literally have nothing. Is the ``islamic world`` not spiritually refined enuff for you? Perhaps that because mufukkas are living largely in poverty. WHen ur azz doesnt have food to eat, you arent really concerned with theology. Put on the thinking caps, This poverty creates the ATMOSPHERE for bin ladens etc to exist.

WHere are Extremists most prevelent? ALWAYS ALWAYS ALWAYS in areas where jobs are minimal and hope is lost. Perhaps if you took off your blinders youd se what is glaringly obvious.

Oh by the way. I almost threw up when i read your last post. Do you actually believe what you wrote or are u someones nickname? Christiajnity is one of the most peaceloving nations? And how did the mighty christians get all the funds to be able to waste their time on silly issues such as spirituality?

MERCANTILSIM, IMPERIALISM and COLONIALISM.

``Divide, conqure, pillage and rape / and a lil bit of slavery is what made America great``

drum
//....Christianity is infact theologically more exclusive then islam and has been responsible for far more destruction/death etc....//

Exactly my point. And yet, as matters stand today - christianity is one of the most peace-loving religions ... progressive, accommodating, charitable. Christian-majority nations are advanced, developed, secular, minority-friendly where freedom rules and basic human rights are well-protected.

Why? Because the way majority of christians behave - the way they understand the basics of religion and spirituality - they way they conduct their societies - the way they have built some of the most advanced nations and civilizations in the history of the mankind - their enormous contributions towards science, arts, culture - their contributions towards progress of humanity in general - both in terms of men and material.

So how did this happen? How did christians who are ``theologically more exclusive and responsible for far more destruction/death`` reach where they are today? How did they transform themselves from the dark ages to being the beacon of light?

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As for the rest of your post - it wasn`t clear at all .... something about difficulty in arguing against fundamentalist Islam.

Mohar: Im trying hard to suppress my arrogance here but Im shocked that these dudes havent destroyed your arguments yet.

Christianity is infact theologically more exclusive then islam and has been responsible for far more destruction/death etc...

I am quite shocked at how DIFFICULT it is for a lot of you to argue against fundamentalist Islam. This should be a very quick very easy debate but fools cant stop muddying up the topic.

#44
//...Would they be diametrically opposed to your current posts? ..//

Sure. From what I have read in Chowk - Islam in Spain was moderate and progressive. If that is true and if we consider Spain in isolation ( because during the same period of time, islam as practiced elsewhere probably was not that progressive) then of course, Islam will come out in a different light.

I mean - this is a no-brainer. This is true for other religions too. There were periods when christianity was full of sh!t - inquistions, pogroms, violent campaigns to convert people and what not. ..... But today it`s vastly different. The difference is entirely because of the way the christians practiced their beliefs then and they way they practice it now.

43
//....That`s a broad assumption to make...//

May be. But at this point, I willing to take that risk. May be that`s what it needs to force people like you to move your collective lazy-a$$es and do some reform from inside and do some critical thinking ...... instead of crying foul everytime someone gave you a whiff of the mess that`s festering under the carpet for so long. This is something you folks should have done by yourselves anyaway .... years ago.

Painted with the broad brush - you would have then no place to hide - no more excuses to give .... may be that will give you guys a kickstart to get going to clean up the mess.

So the over-generalization may not be a bad thing after all, at least in this case.

Lets face it, the Quran and the Torah are not the deepest books ever written. Take the good, leave the bad and move on... It is useless to warp ur logic to make the quran and the hadis out to be some sort of magnificent examples of free thinking righteousness and wisdom. They may have been righteous and wise for the simple people they were revealed to but the WISER muslims need to stop defending every ``questionable`` thing contained in them.

GROW UP, be a man or a woman and admit to urself that these are just books, letters on pages and they are NOT perfect. Stop wasting ur time defending these books like u wrote them. And stop letting ur fear of hell cloud the truth within.

That being said I know too many educated muslims who believe that whenever they sneeze its because of the jews. And I also know too many similarities between Israel and hitlers germany. The problem here is not religion or polytricks, Its that people love to blindly follow the religion or political ideas of their mommies and daddies.

Of course most of you will need probably 14,000 more lifetimes before you actually abondon these silly azz systems and start thinking for yourselves.

Mohar: The problem with your idea that Islam is defined by what its practitioners believe is that your opinion of Islam is relative to the time ur analyzing it. If you were looking at spain 500 years ago what inferences would u make on Islam? Would they be diametrically opposed to your current posts?

``Majority of muslims in arab and wannabe-arab countries(like pakistan) believe Islam is the only way. They hate kafirs. They have been yearning for the day when the mythical past glory will come back and islam will lord over everybody else in the world. Their fascist fantasies are no secret at all.``

That`s a broad assumption to make, mohar. It would take a whole article to respond to adequately. Though I can say this. The problem with that assumption is that it generalizes over a 1400 year span. A large emphasis that no sociologist nor ethnographer would sift through. Furthermore, your description would infer that all Muslims adhere to a homogeneous form of Islam. Not only is that false but it completely misses the point and jejunely believes that every divergent sect in Islam carries out the same teleological aspiration. I find that hard to swallow.

--Ibn

#41
//...jews are less than 15 million in world population in 3000 yr history. why ?
why they don`t grow ? It is beyond my understanding...//

Well - may be because jews don`t breed like rabbits ...... May be because they don`t go around ``harvesting`` souls ..... May be they don`t have delusions about taking over the world and making everybody else a dhimmi.

May be they choose quality over quantity.

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Hmmmmm...Mordant Muslim wasting his time with a bunch of pakistan-obsessed lunatics. ha! ha!

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