One Day At a Time

jang and dost-mittar

The substitution of `Khuda` with `Allah` in the elctronic media of Pakistan was not only the handiwork of petrodollars but perhaps also the reaction of the Shia theocratic revolution in Iran. The phenomenon showed how effective is the electronic media in changing the culture of the people. I am afraid, a time would come perhaps when the famous couplet of Akbar Allah Abadi would become litteraly true to the hilt: -

Raqibon ne rappat likhwai ja ja ke thane mein
Kih Akbar naam leta he khuda ka is zamane mein

But how paradoxical it may appear the mullah continues to stick to `Namaz`and `Roza`, both of persian origin which, he asserts, are the local versions of the Quranic `Salat` and `Som`. The mullah did not, however, indigenised `Haj`, `Zakat` and above all `Hajre Aswad`. This selectiveness is perhaps is due to mullah`s professional necessity.

Malik99 and Dost-Mittar

``Our society, the way we interact, our language, our culture is not part of that good >old `geography` that you look so longingly at.``

A fair statement.

Is it? Only in the dreams of Malik99 and other Islamists. Geography has not died, and Islam does not have everyone in its grip.

A fairer statement would be that Mr. Malik99 would PREFER to kill geography in favor of Islam. The absurd and relentless Allahization and Ramadanization of Pakistan are the pet projects he and other mis-educated Islamists are engaged in in an effort to realize their dreams. Whether they will completely succeed or not, is anybody`s guess.

ramdan/ramzan issue it of utmost importance, expecially to non-believers as this change is a symbol of imported zealotary funded by 70`s petrodollars and not of ``organic evolution``, and its vetor looks dangerous to non-believers.

malik99:
``and when did ``khuda hafiz`` become part of our ``geography``? I thought it was persian!``
malik saaab, pundit, jungle, etc. are indian words but are now part of the english language. As you said,
``and `geography` keeps changing dost sahib. It changed once again when Muhammad Bin Qasim came to Sindh. It changed when Moghals came and when urdu language - with a heavy influence of persian and arabic started``
When all this happened, urdu, along with many persian, arabic and turkish words, became part of my heritage (as also of bollywood!). But you were wrong about ``geography changing``, what changed was not the geography but the cultural evolution of that particular geography. I can say salaam ailakum and you can say namaste without either of us changing our religions. You are justified in saying that things have changed in Pakistan with a virtual euthanasia to some aspects of your geography`s culture, but this has happily not happened in India, since it is still the birthplace of urdu and a language with which millions of muslims and many non-muslims readily relate; if you dont believe me, ask ghulam ali or mehdi hassan who buys more of their albums with urdu ghazals - indians or pakistanis? I for one proudly claim that urdu is part of my heritage, regardless of its origins.
``Our society, the way we interact, our language, our culture is not part of that good old `geography` that you look so longingly at.``
A fair statement. But does it mean that you now have to look towards arabia? A lot of people abuse Naipaul for wrongly claiming that muslim convert is too eager to give up his own culture and adapt the one belonging to a distant land. Are you saying that he is right?

dost-mittar sahib - for a non-religious person who endlessly lambasts muslims for paying too much attention to the ``rituals`` instead of the ``spirit`` of religion, aren`t you paying an aweful lot attention to the symantecs of whether praying should be called `pooja` or `salaat`? and when did ``khuda hafiz`` become part of our ``geography``? I thought it was persian!

and `geography` keeps changing dost sahib. It changed once again when Muhammad Bin Qasim came to Sindh. It changed when Moghals came and when urdu language - with a heavy influence of persian and arabic started.

At some point, dost sahib, you will have to come to this understanding that while we may have been one people and one `geography` in a distant past, and muslims may have been former hindus, they are not any more. Our society, the way we interact, our language, our culture is not part of that good old `geography` that you look so longingly at. Time has moved on. Greeks and Turks no longer look at each other as same people, even though they were all part of the Greek and then Byzantium empire. They are two different people, with markedly different culture. And they have accepted that. Indians and Pakistanis should accept that too.

It will surely help in moving on.

malik99:
actually, yes, because pooja is very much a part of the vocabulary of your geography, just as I can use khuda haafiz, rab raakha, `khair mangna` and `taaweez` without losing my religion.

dost mittar # 34 writes ``What I find more amusing is the attempt to turn ramzan into ramadhan, namaz into salat, khuda hafiz into allah hafiz``

What I find more amusing (and a bit ironic) is that it is mostly the non-fasting and non-praying people like yourself and hamidm who get into this debate of ramzaan/ramadan, namaz/salaat !

If the people who actually bother to offer prayers start calling it `pooja` instead of `salaat`, would it be easier on your sensitive ears? Just wondering.

kaurasach:
I have a different pov wrt rituals than yours. You are against them if they have lost their original meaning. For me, the original meaning is less significant than the fact that they have become part of our heritage and add some colour to our drab lives. Do we really care why we have pumpkin pie or turkey for thanksgiving, dress up as goblins and witches during halloween, have easter bunny and egg-hunt for easter or santa clause and x-mas tree during x-mas (remember, there are no evergreens in jerusalem!)? Similarly, do we really care why we have lohri or mehndi or ghorhi, etc.? Rituals and traditions evolve, so rakhri and pug-banani may not have the same meaning today that was their original meaning (more likely, new dimensions have been added to the old meaning). There are instances when rituals take an evil turn, as is the case with daaj/dowry in India, but they should be fought against as such just as we should fight against non-ritualistic evils, such as female infanticide.

My take on sikhs leaving their symbols is different, even though those symbols have become somewhat archaic now. At an individual level you have made a choice and it is quite clear from your posts that this has in no way diluted your religious identity. But if it happens at a large scale, it can have serious consequences. Regardless of all the progress that has been made in the last century in breaking sikhism`s umbilical cord with hinduism, it is still too early to say that the process is irreversible. As you come from a village background, you are perhaps more aware than me that at the village level there is very little to distinguish between panjabi hindus and sikhs on a daily basis - they all go to the same gurudwara, celebrate the same festivals like baisakhi, diwali, lohri, gurpurb, etc. and share many of the same rituals. The turban and the kesh is really what gives the sikhs their distinctive identity. If those symbols go, the sikh identity may suffer over the long run. This is something that should equally worry the hindus and panjabis, if not Indians. If sikhs start giving up these symbols en mass, it is only a matter of time that another Bbindranwale will appear on the scene to take drastic measures to preserve that identity. And that wont be in anyone`s interest.

drumz:
You make some valid points and have obviously read Sai Baba which I haven`t.
No, I didn`t imply that Sai Baba is the prophet descending from the clouds prophesied in islam. As I said, he is truly a charlatan, although, it is possible that when so many people start believing in a person, the person himself might start having delusions about himself (I would suggest you read R.K. Narayan`s `Guide` - the book, not the film!.
And I dont think that any hindu suspected him of heresy because that concept itself is alien to that religion.

Dost: I actually can produce numerous quotations of sai Babas when he claims to be greater then Rama and Krishna. In 1963 he reffered to himself as an incarnation of shiva (and shakti) who as u know are not known to incarnate (vishnu is only). That is what led many traditional hindus to suspect him of heresy. He actually was exposed also in the early 1970`s for foundling young men in an attempt to raise their kundalini during medition (I have their statements as well).

Sai baba is not jesus as he didnt descend from the clouds as per prophecy. Dude also speaks of non attachement yet from what i know rides around in luxuerious cars. Regardless, his writings can be quite deep.

Regarding miracles, Im sure we know of numerous martial artists who can break cement blocks with the edge of their hands or even their foreheads using chi energy. Can this not be claimed as miraculous? A holy person who can holy his breath for 4 mins or who can reduce his heart beat to almost 2 bps can be considered a miracle worker as well. The human being is capable of many feats.

kaurasach: You make very valid points. I will say this though. Hindus undertsand human nature. They have made the vedas for she who sees god philosophically. They have made the gita for she who sees god literally. They have made idols for those who see god physically. They have the rituals of holi for those who will see god ritually.

The mindset which cannot see past the rituals will be there even if rituals are removed. Look at guru nanak or buddhas example. They removed the caste system or organized rituals and look what seeped into their faiths.

Hamidm: I dono if i should be more shocked at Ylh getting married or for him being in competition with me. Anyways as long as they are cynics like you and cannot type a paragraph without using the elipses four times, im sold. I just hope they arent as religious as u.

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drumz:
``Sai baba is a charletan in my opinion.``
...and in my opinion, too, as were most others who claimed to be prophets/avtars, etc.

`` There is no such idea in hindusim that shiva has any incarnations and he most certainly has not brought peace to the world unlike the legends surrounding the christ or kalki avatar.``

Sai Baba does not claim to be an incarnation of shiva but of vishnu and vishnu is supposed to reincarnate. The kalki avtar has not taken place yet (unless you believe that Mohammad was kalki!) so we have yet to find out if he will bring any peace. And legends surrounding jesus were about his miracles of healing, same as legends surrounding sai baba.

``That being said, I believe in message and not messenger. Who he is is irrelevent. He does indeed make some very good points in his writings.``
Agreed! Some of my best friends are sai followers and I say that without any negative connotations. I haven`t read his writings but his followers do seem to imbibe a very high sense of secular community service, which I admire.

kaurasach:
Rituals don`t kill anyone, at least not humans, which is more than one can say of ideologies.
```saas graas simro...`` (against the ritualistic 5 times)``
...but isn`t that part of gurbani, as is ``saas saas japiye gobind``? Fortunately, however, gurbani does not need to be taken literally, especially since most of it is the works of saints and sufis and not of god himself.

drumz,

....... since ylh got married, you are the front-runner ............. the only problem is that my daughters, inspite of mrs hamidm`s best efforts, have turned out to be cynics like me ....... another potential problem: when i asked my older one how she could go through her bank account not even half way into her first semester at college she replied, ``money flies when you are having fun!``............. i love the fact that she has inherited my sense of humor, but i am a little concerned about her picking up my spending habits .........

.... cheers

RITUALS

i am scared of all the pak/khalsas who want to clense religions of rituals. rituals is the ONLY important part in a religion, something you can touch and feel and enjoy. you make the religion pure and that is where you get into all kinds of trouble.

i mean can you imagine replacing diwali (mithai, fireworks, new clothes, decorations) with a meditation about poor of the world? as if thats doing some fat good.

i always get a cristmas tree, and light a lamp and agarbathi in front of it every evening and give presents to kids. i like cristmas.

does anyone know a good xmas tree Aarti?

and ramzan on Md Ali Rd/bhindi bazar in mumbai is the better than that in any other country (as veeresh would put it). and it has little to do with god.

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Dost: I am well and you sir?

Regarding religious masters. My point was that All religious masters (even sai baba) form their own school of thought. They say that there are as many paths as ther are souls. Religious masters through trial and error find their own path.

All religious masters at one time in their lives begin questioning all they know and then tend to start from scratch and build a new philosophy which better suits their internal system. (note: I am not commenting on how correct they are, im just observing what they do).

This can be compared to their followers who at no time in their lives ever question anything. That is the great paradox.

Sai baba is a charletan in my opinion. There is no such idea in hindusim that shiva has any incarnations and he most certainly has not brought peace to the world unlike the legends surrounding the christ or kalki avatar. That being said, I believe in message and not messenger. Who he is is irrelevent. He does indeed make some very good points in his writings.

drumz:
How`re you doing my friend?
``interestingly, ALL Religious leaders have been free thinkers.``
You are too generous. Why not call them for what they were - tricksters and/or hallucinators. Don`t forget that we have a contemporary model in Sai Baba who has convinced more people -highly educated and ``enlightened``- of his divinity than any of the prophets ever did in his lifetime. Would you call him a free thinker?

Hi T:
Ramzaan and zakat are the two aspects of islam which are admired even by kafirs like me. It`s a wonderful concept and was even more wonderful when it was completely voluntary. As for how the dates are to be determined, this is a minor issue and, though not religious, I do believe in traditions and rituals which add a bit of colour to our lives. What I find more amusing is the attempt to turn ramzan into ramadhan, namaz into salat, khuda hafiz into allah hafiz and changing everything into arabic including people`s names.

Ramzaan Mubaarak
(er. sorry!) Ramadhan Marhabba

....... ramadhan (or ramzan, as they used to call it in the good old days) has now been made compulsory for all muslims and non-muslims in saudi arabia .......... that, in itself, wouldn`t be a problem but, under the rules of reciprocity, all hindoos in qatar have to be circumcised and in michigan all muslims have to buy their kids presents and the imams of local masajids have to dress up in a red suit and ride a reindeer on christmas day..........

http://www.arabnews.com/?page=1§ion=0&article=52719&d=11&m=10&y=2004&pix=kingdom.jpg&category=Kingdom

........... there is no end to the idiocy of the ummah !

INTROSPECTION:

PEOPLE: ALL people have a belief system. It is influenced by perhaps their genes, and likely their environment. Nature and Nurture combine to shape ones beliefs.

RELIGION: IS a large system containing a set of agreed upon ideas based upon Revelation or the Path of a particular person(s).

The system of a person is almost NEVER inherently in agreeance with a religion or political ideology. The person here tends to suppress their internal belief system. In areas where it contradicts the beliefs of their adopted faith, the faith will win out.

MODERATE RELIGIOUS FOLK: KNow that they disagree with some of the rules of their religious system but are not courageous enough to embrace and admit this discrepency. They know muhammed didnt fly on a magic horse or that men can beat women etc. But they wont admit it.

FUNDAMENTALISTS: Completely shut down their internal systems (as opposed to moderates who reppress it) and let mommy and daddy think for them.

Free Thinkers: Think for their own selves. (interestingly, ALL Religious leaders have been free thinkers.

Hamidm: Reminds me of rumi: ``for years I knocked on the door, when it opened I realised i was knocking from within.`` There is no need to wait in the cave, you hamidm are the one true god. Anyone who disagrees shall be asked to produce a post similar to yours.

Anyways how are the children? I hope we didnt forget the Arrangement (no pun intended).

Temporal

Good article. Display of religiosity is a disease more common in we Pakistanis than others. People not fasting hesitate or even can tell a lie that they are fasting.

Everyone is welcome to follow his belief. But it is not right to give an impression that you are doing a big favour to the entire mankind. The office working timings are reduced even when in an air-conditioned cozy environment. The workers move about as if they are on a devine mission. The most inefficient worker tends to become the most religious to derive the sympathy/compassion factor. In other societies, people leave their God at home.

Off course, the people eat more and high quality food in Ramzan. They put on weight and prices of commodities go sky high.

Many years back, the restaurants used to be open with shutters down. Now there is no food available in the afternoon for any traveller/visiter.

Farzana. Good Ilog by you on this subject. And Hamidm2 - great with your high quality satire.

Arn`t we carrying this show of religiosity a bit too far?

NHK

…i read Progressive Muslims challenge tradition by LESLIE SCRIVENER-FAITH AND ETHICS REPORTER of the star…this was the main story on page 1 of the weekend edition…am not aware of this group…it would be interesting to find out who finances it…

malik99,

....sorry......... in future i will post my comments only if invited by those who yearn for truth and freedom (to quote w) ............ so please send in your request and i will do my best to comply

hamidm writes ``happy flatulence !``

hamidm sahib, after having read your interacts for the last few months, I can say for sure that your flatulence problems exist regardless of whether you are fasting or not. As soon as i click on an article to read, I can tell from the stink that you had just deposited your post there. It is as if ``hamidm was here`` is written all over it.

Cat Ji #23

I will build on what samankhan, a good Muslim and a good person, wrote: ``we need to be good human beings first and foremost. The reason why we Muslims fare badly is because there is a zameen aasman ka farq in our words and deeds.``

There is a zameen aasman ka farq in the words and deeds of all of us, no matter what religion we may follow. Why then does this problem bedevil Muslims so much more acutely?

Look at the examples:

Muslims claim that their religion is the `religion of peace.` Yet Islam`s history has been and continues to be full of indescriable violence (naturally, Muslims see it as the non Muslims` fault).

Muslims claim that there is no clergy in Islam. But Muslim lives and Muslim societies are the most hopelessly gagged in fatwas and firmans. People are supposed to decide things for themselves, but read the thousands of such cornucopias of questions and answers, and if you are a person of any self respect, you will have tears in your eyes:

http://www.pakistanlink.com/religion.html


I could go on, about the position of women, treatment of minorities, attitude toward knowledge, free inquiry, in fact, almost any of the life`s myrial facets.

Why is this so? I refuse to buy that every child born in a Muslim household is genetically inferior, or genetically wired to grow into a bigger hypocracrite than the children born to the rest of mankind.

The answer lies in the deeper structures and mandates of Islam itself. Don`t get me wrong. No religion is perfect. But other religions have a certain capacity to recognize their problems and reform themselves.

Leave the Mullahs alone for God sakes. Take responsibility for your own moral and religious bankruptcy, negligence, and malaise. If you consider yourself so upright then you don`t need Mullah and if you feel inedequate in yourself then shouldn`t you be reforming your own self first before you try to reform him.

My knowledge is limited, so i cannot be termed any authority on Islam. But i think that the one thing that Islam has emphasized over EVERYTHING else and what really differentiates it from EVERY Other Religion or concept out there is the DIRECT Communion with GOD. There are NO Intermediaries between man & God, and this is only present in Islam. Christianity has their priests without whom you cannot attain Heaven, Hindus have Pundits, Jews their own. Only ISLAM emphasizes that direct communion in that God asks man to pray directly to him and not through anyone else.

There is no concept of CLERGY in Islam. You can ask others of course, when you have problems, but again, not required on their own. Islam is the only religion that expects its followers to understand the religion and the concept fully on their own.

This is something that we all have forgotten. Who says what the Mullahs says is right. I don`t see any `Endorsed by God` stickers on any one of them or or anything they say. Most of them are just normal men like ourselves. Yet, many make them the Supreme Authority on EVERYTHING. Half of our country`s troubles can be resolved if you do what Attaturk did. Take them on a boat and drown them.

Comments Welcomed.

drumz,

...... good to see you are still around ....... you are right - i am the most religious muslim on this site ....... during the month of ramadhan i retire to a cave and wait for the archangel to put in an apearance - unfortunately, my fortieth birthday was rather uneventful and that is when i decided to put in a wireless network in the cave ............. i am giving it another ten years before i quit on my mission to reform islam ...........

...... happy flatulence !

t,
Ramzan Mubarak!
I feel the month of Ramazan was meant as a month in training for God, with his profound wisdom, was aware of our weakness to divert ourselves from the desired path. Hence, He must have made it compulsory each year, year after year! If only we carried forward atleast 1/8th of what we practiced in this one month!
I do agree: we need to be good human beings first and foremost. The reason why we Muslims fare badly is because there is a zameen aasman ka farq in our words and deeds. We simply do not practice what we preach. We just chadao our trousers and pyjamas till the taqnas and grow a beard or cover ourselves up in our burqa. These are the easiest of practices; if only we followed other religious teachings in our daily lives, we would ceratinly be not only good Muslims but good humans too.

As for the Ulema/Mullahs, being the learned few they were meant to enlighten the ignorant many. It no longer seems to be the case; rather, it shouldn`t be so now. With information at our finger tips and educational levels increasing, we should seek religion on our own. we should do our own learning, research and analysis. We could also do well to abide by the basics to begin with. Indepth knowledge will come on its own with conitiued reading and learning.

While on Ulemas, this is a point of digression, but nevertheless, allow me state my opinion.
So far I was under the impression that the Friday Qutbah was delivered in the native language. It came as a surprise to know that most, nay all ulemas continue with the tradition of delivering it in Arabic! No wonder, people are so disillusioned and wary of attending them! Why can`t we understand that the prophet delivered the Friday sermons in Arabic because it was the language spoken then? Wouldn`t it make more sense to deliver it in a language all followers congregating for the said prayers understand?
Wish the ulemas understand these simple facts.

Wish you have a good day too!

Absolutely correct. We need to read the message ourselves rather than waiting for others to explain things to us. How many times do you consult somebody befor commiting a crime a sin an act you know is wrong. So how come to make a correction in your behaviour u need to consult an intermediary and that also after the manual on how to correct yourself ha been provided to you. Picking up the Quran and reading it for oueselves is the most difficult thing for most of us. Why. Because we are sacred to let go of our own fallicies and wrong beliefs and traditional hand me downs, scared to react and to accept that we might have been wrong and even more sacred of standing up and correcting ourselves because we don`t have the guts to face upto the criticism we will attract in doing so. The example we need to take from the Prophet is that he stood up to adverstiy in its highest form for his beliefs. Not how long his beard was how haigh his shalwar was when he prayed and whether he said 20 nafils or 50 nafils during his prayers.

Good posts generally on this thread. particularly sameer and ralph.

I see Hamidm hasnt changed a bit. I would bet my year`s paycheck (not much) that you are probably the most religious muslim on this site.

Salams Temporal Sahib and Ramadan Mubarak

I read this before reading your article, Anas bin Malik(r.a) says, ``The aim of the ulema is to understand and of fools to quote`` :)

I think there are plenty of true ulema around, who have also inherited the spiritual knowledge from the Prophet SAW , its just that these days we take pseudo ulema`s to be ulema and ignore the true ones. Its our ignorance and pride that does not allow us to learn from the true ulema. If we sincerely search for the Truth, it will surely be revealed to us.

Perhaps the fault lies not within the Ulema, but within ourselves


For some reason the majority of Chowkies have limited knowledge of Islam and its spirituality. Everyone here seems to be ranting:) rather than acting. Chowk isnt the intellectual place that it once used to be.

By the way, none of this was directed at you Temporal Sahib. Hope you have a spiritual Ramadan:)

``A hungry inner self is dearer to God than seventy heedless worshippers`` Prophet Muhammad SAW

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..... fasting makes a man gassy, but doesn`t necessarily make him a good insaan.........

............ actually it can make him irritable, bloated, depressed, sexually impotent, schizophrenic and in extreme cases suicidal - that`s when he straps on an explosive belt and goes for a walk after asar ............. but seldom, almost never, does depriving oneself of food, water and sex make anyone more spiritual or, to quote temporal, a good insaan ........

............ now, personally i don`t have anything against getting up for an early breakfast and gorging on parathas and paye, but it is the heartburn and bad breath that sets in around nine in the morning that is a little troublesome .......... and, in my case, since lunch is the most important thing i do all day, it ruins my day .......... so i try to have a light salad instead which, as a good muslim, is bad for my self-esteem because eating meat is what differentiates me from the horrible hindoos and other foul vegetarians ......... if my ancestors had wanted to eat ghass bhoons they would have stayed hindoo ......... talking about my ancestors - their poor spirits must be in terrible agony during the holy month of ramadhan as they watch their progeny starve thmselves because of some alien arab god`s silly injunctions ..............

....... but somehow i can survive lunch, or the absence thereof, but it is nigh impossible to go through thirty plus happy-hours without incurring a major financial loss ......... according to a conservative estimate by the muslim libation society it can cost a moderate muslim about 10 dollars extra, or 300 for the month, to drink after iftaar .......... so i decided to take a page out of my rebel catholic friend`s book - you see, he had a serious falling out with the church over vatican-II and left the seminary to get his mba ......... anyway, he gives up tonic for lent and for ten days drinks gin straight up - mind you, no martinis since that would be cheating!.........

.......... i have a lot more to say, specially about sex during ramadhan, but i am feeling a little gassy ............

#9 by temporal
nobody had ever claimed that Islam is a complete system-HP

“recall Muhammed’s (saw) words from his last sermon on the mount calling on Allah and Muslims to bear witness?”

The prophet said: “religion is complete”. He never said it is a “complete system”.
You can spin it whichever way you want but nobody expected from a simpleton, as you put it, to force some to read more than what he said.

The issue is: you are suggesting beating up on a barely educated mullah who derives livelihood from religion. I doubt that you have any formal religious education still; you know a whole lot more about religion than mullah could ever dream off. You are suggesting competing with mullah, IMO, there is no need for that. For a person or persons, who defiantly had access to better education, mullah is not the competition. The competition is with the groupthink that he has become symbol of.

After reading the same ``teachings and purpose`` for fasting year after year, I am convinced that namaz teaches basic algebra like 2 + 2 = 4 rakats for fajar and 4 + 4+ 2+ 2 + 3 + 2 = 17 rakata for Isha.

They are nothing but pre-Islamic existing rituals practiced by the Bedoin Arabs that were accepted and regimented with some changes.

One does not have to learn the stuff of grade II morals and ethics - to be taught by teacher in a lecture or two - through crude, hard and harsh ways of daily and a month yearly observing rituals at age 40, 50, 60 or even above 70. If a person did not learn insaniyat in first ``formative`` 75 years of his life, is not going to learn it from fasting in the years 75-80.

The pupose of this or any other ritual is - well just plain and simple - rituals, which means keep renewing the belief of submission to a religious ideology or philosophy.

All religions are full of dogma, absurdities, oppressions, and injustices. Islam more than most other religions but not uniquely so.

Islam`s uniqueness, and its greatest evil, lies in darkening the hearts and minds of `moderate` and `dormant` Muslims.

The `moderates` and `dormant` followers of other religions work hard to escape the limits of outdated dogma, economic, social, political injustices and divisions prescribed by their religions. The `moderate` and `dormant` Muslim dedicates his or her life divining justifications of these Islamic evils and absurdities.

Uniformity is a fond hope.

The roza itself. The Qura`an itself is very clear about when the fast should be broken. ``Attimmuss sayaama ill al layl`` ``aur rozay kou tamaam karo raat kou`` yet different brands of Muslims break their fast at different times.

Interestingly, the time of iftar is one of those very few tings regarding which the books is totally unambiguous and states its position in categorical imperative . . . yet, the Musulmaan . . .

tempu :
well thought out article. aik sahib aie aur kissi sey poocha `masjid kidhar hai `? doosrae aadmee ney jewab diya ... aap shia hain k sunni konsi masjid mein jaana pasand karein gaien. jub pehley shakhs ney jawab mein arz kiya koi see bhi, tau phir doosrae ney poocha ` tau yeh baatein, k aap borre hain ya memon ?` by this time asr kii namaz ka waqt jaata raha .

`Sar peetney walla icon`

P.S. I read one of yr interracts, where you were replying [to i forget who] on your ethics of posting ... `aisee k kissi k agae sharminda na hona parey kiya likha `

tempu you have always been Da Man :)

Ramzaan Mubarak..... lamha lamha ;) pul pul

The question why something supposedly good for you is prescribed only one month of the year is an interesting one. I remember endlessly tormenting my poor mom with this question.

But I think it makes sense, if you accept that cetain practises or forms of discipline that might help us be better people (but not being good/virtuous per se) might just be too much to do all year round. Fasting all year `round, for instance, might not be good for your health, to say nothing of the loss to the economy, if carried out the way it is in Pakistan. So, perhaps one month out of twelve might be a good way to recharge our spirits, if we can do what we do for the right reasons.

Ideally, one day of the week might even be better, i think.

You can`t blame the system, its the followers you have to blame. As Malik99 rightly said it is for the training, because before the next ramadan arrives, our good habits may have rusted. Ofcourse you havent seen any `Muslims` changing after Ramadan because, as you`ve precisely put it, some do use it as a tool just to shed the surplus kgs, then there`s the social status issue, iftar parties [again-some do this for the cheap thrills of social status] etc..
Ramadan is there for us to get our training, but if we`re not careful, we might just end up wasting our time. Its about self-analysis rather than scrutinising other`s actios.

…thanks for the responses so far…will pick two for response…

malik99

..am not disagreeing with the training aspect of ramazaan…my beef is only about the gross superficiality of the whole exercise…instead of cleansing of the soul and body this exercise has become a futile ritual…lip service…here now, gone tomorrow…what do we have to show for the training from the last 1425 ramazaans?

I am frankly tired of this daily mullah bashing that occurs
…agree here also…I have not stopped at mullah bashing…I lay the greater blame on us – on us Muslims who have ceded territory by default – it is we, the semi-educated Muslims who have stopped learning about our religion…as we become aware of our religion clergy’s importance would diminish proportionately…

HP

…in an earlier post you wrote: Throughout the Muslim history, nobody had ever claimed that Islam is a complete system…It is a religion like many other religions and there is nothing superior about it.(104 A Dangerous Gift on August 3, 2004)

…this is contrary to the beliefs ingrained with the majority of Muslims…recall Muhammed’s (saw) words from his last sermon on the mount calling on Allah and Muslims to bear witness?

…So, I have to spend time to learn Islam now,…
…briefly, yes…or let them hijack your religion and suffer the consequences by default

rgds

t

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Should Muslims not strive to be good human beings in other months?

This questions bothers in mind of many people. But Fasting is a ritual which cannot be extended in other months as it has been forbidden in Islam that undue fasts must be avoided. But the cause of Ramzan is to develop internal sympathy for the hungry and needy people. If we start thinking in the way that those formal procedures which are essence of ramzan should be applied and carried out in every rest month then we would be killing the theme of Ramzan.
In fast it is confirmed valid if its done fullfilling religious basics and fundamentals. The lesson given in Ramzan should be enhanced in other months like not lying, pray five times a day. Help needy, poor and feel hunger so do productive work which could help in decreasing poverty.
But what we see actual practise is that with start of Ramzan, the prices of edibles (Basic) shoot and uneasiness among poor start rising. Ramzan sometimes is considered a burden then. Secondly you can see shopkeepers selling with good costumes , practising to sell clean goodies but as Ramzan ends they come back to original states.
So the whole matter is that the good things we practise in Ramzan should also be adopted in other months.
This also carries out a valid point towards ``Aiteqaf``. I myself used to see people sitting in total solitude cut off from world so that with least possible contact to world results in max possible probability of Gunah.
But in comparison a man surrounded by thousands of thing in this world but dutifying the things factually and not sinning s/he should be considered more rewarding. So the conclusion is that ceremonies like Ramzan n Shab-e-Qadr provide man/ woman a margin to pray heartedly to God. And this is a silent contact with man n gd, not letting any matter come in between. But thinking that good things should be acted in few times of month is a wrong idea.

So I agree n say:
Have a good Ramzan! No, have a good day! One day at a time for the whole year!
n Ghalib:
Baskih dushwar hai her kaam ka asan hona
Admi ko bhi moyassar nahin insan hona

If theres one thing i dislike more then a fundamentalist muslim its a moderate Muslim. The fundo at least can hide behind the fact that he is an idiot.

But the rest of you. How can u defend limiting ur lives to the letters in some ancient text?


By natural progression we go from sometimes being sunnu or shia, to seeing all of islam as one, to seeing all of humanity as one.

temporal sahib - you write ``These pseudo aalims have turned this religion into a mockery. ``

I am frankly tired of this daily mullah bashing that occurs. We seem to be taking out our personal failures in following Islam on that segment. It helps us vent, makes us feel better about ourselves and off we go next day to report to our managers at work.

Honestly speaking, if the current crops of ulemas bothers us THAT much, why don`t we ever encourage our own children to become one? Wouldn`t that solve this issue to a great degree? But instead, we spend millions of dollars on our children` education so they can become doctors and engineers, and lawyers - so they can buy big houses and bigger cars.
But we never encourage our children to do perhaps a doctorate in Islamic jurisprudence or Fiqh.

So the only people in our society who become an `alim` are the ones who could not become anything else. And then we have the nerve to attack this group as a self serving ``interest group``. It is as if we ourselves are the most selfless and sincere people!

Shame on us hypocrites!

Temporal,

I can understand your concerns. And my answer is that we need a centralized body to articulately and intelligibly mass educate the Muslim (and willing non-Muslim) denizens of a country of the history and nature of Islam. And why Muslims must follow virtues of Islam and avoid its vices. And the most important thing on part of every Muslim is to understand the essence of Islam, the only reason that grants it sanctity to exist, at once, and liberty to a soul to transcend mortally while adhering to it.

The only time I actually remember to have enjoyed a Friday sermon when I went to Pakistan was when the Wa`iz (one who conveys a sermon) talked about Islam and intricately intertwined it with the world of today. He elucidated upon dogma and demonstrated it to be practically applicable. I believe that the test of a true religion is that is must be applicably capacitated with the changing times of the days.

Peace!

`Roza` like `Nimaz` is actually the name of the Zartushti rituals adopted by the mullah of the subcontinent. The zartusht mullahs never objected to the use of the names of their rituals as the Islamic ones do about their use by other sects especially by Ahmadies. The Quranic name of Roza is `Som` and that of Namaz, Salat, but the mullah is wary of these names. God knows why?
Som, unlike Salat, is a purely private and individual ritual as only God knows about it. I had never seen any Christian making a show of observing fast though I had many Christian colleagues. So one day I asked a Christian colleague of mine whether they observe fasting. I was surprised to learn that they do obseve fasting and their fast was for 24 hours but as showing it off is strictly prohiited in their religion no body comes to know of it. They also observe Eid which they call Easter after their fasting. Isn`t the Muslim Eid also the adoption of the Christian Easter?

temporal sahib - you asked ``Should Muslims not strive to be good human beings in other months? Why this overt emphasis in Ramazan only?``

Absolutely, muslims should strive to be good boys all year around.

However, the emphasis on Ramadan is for `training` purpose. It is the same thing when your company sends you on training or a refresher course. I am sure you would not ask your manager ``why must this emphasis on learning / refreshing skills only during this one week training course. Why don`t you send me to training all year around``. Your manager, after getting over his initial shock and rage, will tell you that this week long training should help you improve your performance for the rest of the year.

So off you go to that training. You work really hard during that training course, knowing fully well that your manager lacks the budget and your wife lacks the patience to have you gone for training frequently. So you make the best of that training session. You come back a week later, with new skills, and new ways to improve your performance at work. Your manager is happy with you, your co-workers are happy too that you are not only a better worker yourself, but you are also helping and motivating them to improve their performance.

Of course, if you are a slacker, you might just sleep through the training, have nice company paid dinners, and then come back to job no better than before you took that training.

“The more we study Islam, the more they would lose their hegemony over us.”

So, I have to spend time to learn Islam now, just to beat up on a guy who is trying to make some money with his limited abilities? Is this the right approach? That would just give control to the mullah. I would rather ignore him when he is talking rubbish and I know it. And that’s what people need to do. Learn to ignore the simpletons instead of trying to beat them.

Politically or even ideologically, a mullah in the mosque holds no threats, but when different vested interests try to build political capital out of a religion, the whole religion becomes dynamite.

“How difficult that simple egalitarian message is to grasp for us today?”

How the message was egalitarian when it was meant for simpleton? May be I can’t grasp the point here but in the current world there is nothing egalitarian about Islam and or for that matter any religion. The focus should be to turn a religion into a personal issue rather than the community issue.

“Deep down it is a (simple) code of living that ensures we become better insaans.”

I respect your opinion but becoming insaan has nothing to do with religion. No religion wants one to become a good insaan. Religion would like people to become good followers. Good insaan innovate and create new world for themselves and rest of the folks.