No Compromise on Murder

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Speaking for the murder victim ( who knows it could be you tomorrow)!!

This is abominable. This is just another way to reinforce theocracy and the patriarchical social order and thwarting the formation of a liberal Islamic society which respects the human life in itself!!

This is something which no modern state should be tolerating- Compounding murder in this fashion- This makes the feudals more powerful and lecherous!

Rubbish!!

beena:

...no law can bring about changes unless it is implemented, and unless society changes to accept the status of women as equal human beings.

well said!

Could be this is part of a ``Compromise Package`` for a razinama with the Misogynist Maulvi Alliance on the ``vardee`` issue?



Saeen aabaad rakhay

Judicially, the application of Qisas & Diyat in case of honor killing is a very interesting case study. Personally, I am against the death penalty in Pakistan in any case, even if it is given to the perpatrator of murder and gang rape of a five year old. But inspite of that I would like to keep the death penalty on the books until Pakistan has a sovereign judicial system. Therefore, I think Qisas and Diyat are the best options to save the human lives. Those who are murdered are gone forever; the judicial killing of the perpetrator cannot bring him/her back, however, a monetary compensation can not only save another human life but may also help the relatives of the victim financially. If finance is not the issue then given the tribal nature of society in Paksitan where revenge killings are all too common a pardon may help control the further tit for tat killing. In my personal opinion the issue that Beena has raised, has been overhyped. Let us take an example. lets say a brother kills his sister for her indiscretion, then the relatives of this girl are other siblings and parents, in case she is not married. Now Beena is saying that if the murderer goes to police and voluntarily confesses that he has murdered his sister, then his siblings and parents will come to the court and say that they forgive the perpatrator. In my opinion in such a situation the problem is not a judicial issue but a procedural issue. For example, the police investigation in the case might reveal that the family members also conspired with perpetrator to commit this murder then the whole lot can be charged with conspiracy to commit murder and case cannot go to the level of Qisas setlement and matter becomes state vs. perpetrator(s) automatically. In this case, a punishment, under Tazir can be imposed which can be life imprisonment and fine but cannot be excution & flogging. The precedence exists.

I would like to retract from the statement made in the last sentence of my previous post where I wrote that ``In this case, a punishment, under Tazir can be imposed which can be life imprisonment and fine but cannot be excution & flogging. The precedence exists.``

As a matter of fact in case of murder state WILL impose the death penalty to the murderer if the Qisas agreement does not go thru. The confusion arises when usually the word Qisas is used in conjunction with the word Diyat. Qisas applies in case of murder whereas Diyat is the monetary compensation or pardon in case of bodily injury short of death. Both Qisas and Diyat where ordained by Almighty to replace the then existing Mosaic Law of `an eye for an eye - a life for a life` etc. Islam has differentiated murder from the bodily injury into the categories of Qisas and Diyat. As I said, in case of murder if Qisas agreement fails then state will impose the death penalty. But in case of bodily harm if a Diyat agreement fails then state cannot impose the `an eye for an eye` punishment. If Diyat agreement fails then state imposes a Tazir punishment (anything that society deems fit for the particular offence) short of an eye for an eye. I regret the error.

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hum bolay ga to bolo gay kay bolta hai,
hum kuch nahin bolay ga!

Until such time as we as a people accept the zulm of the zalim in all forums of society, we cannot evove into a society where the rights of poor helpless women are respected. I see collective madness in all spheres our society especially the socalled PMLQ and its Mazari/Legari etc members

urstruly,

...... this is a serious question.......... do you want to impose qisas and diyat in your new home - the united states, or do you think the existing laws are better ?........ just curious

Ms. Sarwar,

Sad Indeed.

`` no law can bring about changes unless it is implemented, and unless society changes to accept the status of women as equal human beings``

the trouble here is the fact that the society needs to change as a whole. There are laws, bills; solutions to problems and answers to questions, trouble is the implementation of them.
In fact most of those who preach (No i do not mean you Ms. Sarwar- this is for the petty pretentious and the pseudo intellects) would resort to a similarly pathetic and degraded path when confronted by such a situation on a personal level (God Forbid).
and for the society to take a complete U-Turn, it takes more than one can think. Much much mor

hamidm

Every society in the world establishes laws on crimes and punishment based on two principles:

1. To establish order in the society by codifying the values of the society
2. To prevent an individual from transgressing a codified value.

Islam as a religion and as a social ideology goes a step further than the two stated objectives of `establishing order` and that of `prevention`; it has a third objective as well when it codifies the societal values that it promotes. Islam demands us to establish a society that is based on the principles of mutual compassion and fear of (indignation) of God. Fear of God means that as individual and as society we are not only accountable to each other but also to a higher authority who is omni-present, who cannot be cheated, and who cannot be swayed away from the justice. The compassion breeds the necessary cohesiveness that binds the social fabric together even if a breach has occurred. In Islam the premium is on human life, whether it is that of victim or it is that of perpetrator. Both lives are valuable. Yet order in society is also valuable. So by promoting a strict code of justice coupled with necessary compassion Islam tries to strike the fine balance. In every culture of the world forgiveness is considered a virtue of the highest order. In case of murder, grievance on part of victim`s family is the greatest. The loss of a family member not only causes acute degree of emotional trauma but sometimes it also causes irreparable damage of financial nature which may further ruin the lives of many more people. As far as financial damage is concerned, it can be compensated either by perpetrator or by the society, but what to do about the emotional trauma? The only elixir that can cure this trauma is an act of kindness or compassion to the person whom you hate the most. Such an acts transcends your spirits to a higher level. From aggrieved party`s point of view, by forgiving, they hand their grief over to Allah who patches up and rewards them in this life and hereafter and on part of aggressor this act puts him right into the vice of Allah`s justice. There is a greater chance that by repenting and by doing the acts of kindness the aggressor in turn becomes a useful member of the society. Islam offers those second chances. One should ask himself, after all what really is the punishment for a person on death row? Is it the pain that he suffers while his neck snaps on the gallows? Is it the gas that chokes the out life out of him? Or is it the electricity that fries him into his own juices. None. The real punishment of a murderer, if you ask them, is the time between his apprehension and to the time when he steps on the gallows. If a man has all the wealth in the world, he would gladly exchange this wealth to avoid this excruciating punishment of waiting. By offering an opportunity to exercise compassion, Islam bestows upon the aggrieved this tremendous, God like, prowess to save a human life. There is nothing nobler than that.

In United States, where the society is most violent in the world, even more violent than the war torn genocidal nations of Africa or elsewhere, these laws are needed more. It is the richest society in the world but the divide between rich and poor is so sharp and mind boggling. The way they treat the most vulnerable members of the society, the unwed single mothers, the children of them, the colored minorities, the dispossessed, the homeless, the down trodden, makes one think what is the use of this looting, plundering and aggression on helpless nations is for, when they cannot have compassion for their own people. One does not have to be a Muslim to be compassionate. Look at the similar culture countries in Europe and even in Canada where public policy is that of compassion. Call it a social democracy or label it, whatever you like but the facts are so obvious. Even after two world wars, centuries of ruthless colonial aggression on other nations and a holocaust the European societies inherently are compassionate societies (internally) because they put premium on human life. Whereas in United States, the cheapest commodity is that of human life and this despite the fact that it is probably the only country in Western world that has death penalty on its laws. Tens of murderers are executed every year and yet hundreds if not thousands sit on death row, sometimes for decades, waiting the excruciating wait hoping that their fate might change and yet every year a new crop of murderers grows up. This is because there is no compassion for a fellow human being and no fear of God.

… it seems mullah Urstruly has once again dazzled us with his in-depth knowledge of Islamic jurisprudence … and made compelling arguments on why the electoral system should be replaced with one based on shariah …

… super bowl will be replaced with suicide bombings carried out in Shia mosques … zimmis will be forced to choose between the smelly ummah and sporadic attacks on their homes … dr phil will be replaced with beheadings of those who blasphemed against the prophet, his cousins, their descendants, or anyone named abdul, omar, or qasim for that matter … tying an adulteress woman to the designated pole in the compound of the neighborhood mosque and stoning here to death after traveeh will be the highlight of the evening for muttaqee … (which is obviously preferred over frequenting the neighborhood bar for a martini … go figure!) … hindus will be chased in efforts to settle the gujrat score … burgeoning virgins will be routinely rounded up and sent to fire up the loins of the grand mufti of the qurtoba mosque … and pia will have no choice but to furnish each seat with a copy of Quran … and a detachable lotta (on the left side of the seat, for obvious reasons) …

… my only hope is that … after all this nonsense … the weekend muttah will finally pass for a valid form of marriage … of course, one that does not involve meher or having to feed 200+ fat imbeciles at the expense of my yearly options grant …

… as for the possibility of being seated on left side of urstruly on my flight to Karachi … I guess I’ll have to forgo pia in favor of cathay pacific … and fly via Hong Kong instead …

++++++++++++++

Urstruly MiaN … hamidm is merely pulling your chain … don’t take him seriously … otherwise you will continue to sound like another brain-dead member of the psychotic ummah. The naïve sincerity with which you are explaining the shariah system … is laughable …

urstruly,

..........since sattar mian has stolen my thunder i would simply like to thank you for your scholarly islamist opinion on the american justice system ...... it is obvious that you have nothing but contempt, hatred and loathing for the society and culture that you live in and would like nothing better than to overthrow the system that chaffs your islamic nerve .......... i assume that you belong to the brotherhood that seeks to convert all americans to islam and establish the khilafat in washington !........ for years daniel pipes has been warning us about the nefarious brotherhood, but nobody takes him seriously because most of the time he comes off as a flaming bigot himself ..............

....... personally, i am against the death penalty whether it is sanctioned by a vindictive god, a mad monk or a an idiotic judge simply because it is barbaric and inhuman .........

......... i think that tahmed and others have asked you many times why people of your ilk continue to live in the decadent west if they hate it so much .......... do you guys actually feel you are on a mission from god to save the infidels from hell fire, or are you simply little hypocrites?

hamidm

In a pathologically mad frenzy to berate Islam people miss the obvious. They are denying no one but themselves the truth. Isn`t it a fact the the Law of Diyat is already established in the United States, though it is grossly misused and doing more harm than good. The reason is that it wasn`t established with the best of intentions. Isn`t it true that there exists a whole discipline of Injury Law that is in practice; isn`t it true that a whole cadre of attorneys, which are lovingly called `ambulance chasers` who make their living by contesting injury claims and work towards getting a financial settlement for their clients. But the difference between this Injury Law and Islamic Law of Diyat is that the US injury law lacks the component of compassion. Isn`t it true that if not all, but most of the settlements made under Injury Law are made by pure greed on victims part and pure contempt on transgressor`s part? So what has society become as a result? It is a society that is driven by greed and contempt. Islam on the other hand takes into account the human nature and thus blocks all the ways that lead to its corruption. In Islamic Law the monetary amount of a financial settlement under Diyat is pre-established by the state and it is made known to the public. So when a victim receives the settlement money he does not do it out of pure greed and when offender pays this money he doesn`t feel the contempt for the victim. Both parties know that the transaction that they have made was just and that God likes those who are just. The injury laws in United States need to be changed. They do not have to become Muslims to do that. As a matter of fact there are several voices, that are raised from many quarters, by concerned citizens that these Injury Laws must be ammended to end this culture of greed and contempt - but unfortunately this corruption has seeped to very core of the society so that now there are ``pressure groups`` and ``interest groups`` who have vested interests in keeping this corruption in the society. While the society suffers and degenerates.

Sattar

I am not that nieve as you think, I have been around for a while. But it is my duty and my obligation to lead people to the truth. That is my purpose of being. Whether one yanks my chain or throws stones at me, I have to do it.

Urstruly miaN

``truth`` ... from one who is blind as a bat leaves a lot to be desired ... And I would rather deal with ambulance chasing lawyers ... than a mullah-led mob chasing me for praying like a Muslim ...

... and what compassion are you talking about anyway? Do you mean ... letting go of the child after the mother is stoned to death for adultery? If so ... then the rest of the world is waaay ahead of you ...

... and since you`re so miserable in the land of big satan ... you should head back and join the ummah in chasing Ahmadis and stoning adulteress women ... and free suicide bombing lessons by goat-screwing arabs in the local mosque is always an added plus ... of course, there wouldn`t be any contributions to your 401k ... but then, you wouldn`t need it anyway ...