Can Pakistan Work?

All of you guys waiting for part 2, it was supposed to be up here, but its not. So you can check it out at my ILog journal in chowk, at http://www.chowk.com/show_interactor_page.cgi?membername=umairn

Siddiqua # 4


Dear Mr. Siddiqui?

Are you new to Chowk? Your postings have consistently revealed a very clear vision. Kindly accept my personal welcome. We will surely disagree at times, but you have earned my respect.

`` As to the Pakistani middle class, another argument to consider is that a lot of money is re-flowing into Pakistan and a majority of investments being made in Pakistan is by Pakistanis themselves``.

ha ha ha

I agree with urstruly....
Mr hoodbhoy....has a persistent theme.....especially regarding Dr Abdul Qadeer...
May be its a tinge of Jealousey.... Dr Qadeer succeeded ...where Mr Hoodbhoy ended a Lecturer in Quaid-e-Azam University...

The Other day in a Seminar ... we heard another Gem from Mr Hoodbhoy....
....`` Muslims have No notable invention to their credit..... Like electricity.....``

what a pearl......and orignal thought.......

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I agree with ijaz_gul`s views. Stephen Cohen is just looking at Pakistan from one (pessimistic) angle. There are dozens of other angles (some overly pessimistic, others overly optimistic, and some simply realistic). All angles are correct but cannot describe the entire picture.

Pakistan has always been a tough country to govern. From Jinnah to Musharraf, every Pakistani leader has had to grapple with these problems. Religious fanaticism, ethnic tensions, military dominance, corruption and economic problems are nothing new. But despite these problems, Pakistan is economically and militarily stronger than it was in 1947. Literacy rates and health indicators are also stronger today than in 1947. Among political parties, people can choose from PPP, MQM, MMA and dozens of other alternatives to the Muslim League. This was not the case 50 years ago.

What appears to be a chaotic country, is indeed a very normal country... albiet at a different stage of its development. With an sustained GDP growth rate of 6% or more, and a stable government... Pakistan will serve as a model of growth for other underdeveloped nations. Economic investment drives employment, which in turn increases incomes and reduces poverty, which in turn weakens fundamentalism and ethnic divisions. There is a positive correlation between income, education and democracy. Spain is a perfect example.

re: tahmed32 # 5

I agree with your comments.

The increasing buying power of the Pakistani middle class is often over looked and there is a lack of awareness as to how much economic empowerment there has been in Pakistan in the last 3-5 years. As to the Pakistani middle class, another argument to consider is that a lot of money is re-flowing into Pakistan and a majority of investments being made in Pakistan is by Pakistanis themselves. It is interesting, because this is the same money, which left Pakistan for Dubai when the process of nationalization under Z. A. Bhutto started and now, it is re-entering the Pakistani market as the process of liberalization and de-nationalization continues.

The mullah and army might be potent politically, but in the end they are no match for Adam Smith`s ideas and historically speaking, democracy follows economic prosperity and it does not work the other way. I agree; time is on the side of Pakistani people and that is why, it is imperative that the economic policies of this government be allowed to reach their logical end point. It is for this reason that Musharraf is not being judged for his politics, but for his economic policies and on this score, the public is supportive of his political policies, which are pro-economic growth.

Ciao

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This is indeed a sobering analysis of the twin dangers that confront Pakistan: the military, and the mullahs. Both consist of individuals who were considered losers in Pakistan`s society. As early as the 1960`s, the military had become a convenient place of employment for students who failed to gain admission in any professional college, and the the mullah was always a good way to give employment to someone not fit enough to even join the military (I say this based on first hand knowledge, since this is exactly what I heard the military recruiter friends of my father joke about).

But all is not lost by any means.

Pakistan has a large middle class that is growing in numbers and in economic clout. The cream of this middle class is exactly the same people who were the ``smarter brothers and sisters`` of those who joined the military or became mullahs. This middle class is growing every day in numbers and in economic clout. This Pakistani middle class is in Pakistan and around the world. It is the natural antidote to the mullahs and the military that are trying to carve out power for themselves on the strength of the guns and the abuse of religion.

This is an aspect not explored by Cohen, and also overlooked by Hoodbhoy in his review, and therefore I think his analysis is too pessimistic. Time is on the side of the Pakistani people.

Well, this is one view. One must also read writers on military sociology like Morris Jannowitz,David Ordlingar etc to know the other side of the story. Just like his Book on Pakistan Army, Cohen has carried his biases through and through. When he was in Pakistan in connection with writing this book, people like Pervez were always at his side. We must also remeber that Cohen`s perception on Pakistan has been consistently biased, though his insight applaudable.

Dear friends living abroad, its no doomsday.

Cheerios

It is surprising that Dr. Pervez Hoodbhoy, usually an informed and erudite commentator, did not comment upon or question the basic concept of Stephen Philip Cohen`s book, The Idea of Pakistan. The title is a misnomer.

States, as we know them, are dynamic entities, and as such, there is hardly ever an idee` fixe` underpinning them. It is always a combination of geo-political and socio-economic realties that provide the intellectual dynamic for a state at any given moment in history, and such dynamics are subject to change. One does not envisage coming across, for instance, The Idea of The United Kingdom or The Idea of Switzerland.

Had it been The Idea Behind Pakistan, I would not have had any quarrel with it.

Pakistan came into being as the culmination of a movement waged by the broad masses of Insian Mussalmans, inspired by the dregs of the Mussalman aristcracy created by the British and the Mughals. There is no doubt that the actual movement was spearheded by the lower and middle class urban Mussalman youth.

The dominion of Pakistan was born as the consequence of a the partition of British India.
Its growth and maturation into a republic also saw its mutation from a progressive, egalitarian, secular state as envisaged by Jinnah into a vulgar, quasi theocratic state in the early fifties. And just about there it is, till today, despite becoming a declared nuclear power.

urstruly: Hoodbhoy is not a hypocrite - he is a brave man who lives in Pakistan and who openly takes Musharaff to task. You are the hypocrite - after having migrated to the US (and no doubt stood humbly in line with your visa application form), declare the US to be ``our enemy`` (and dont deny it, your post is quite clear on this point without - like the hypocrite that you are - naming the US). So go to hell, you maududi-worshipper.

Mr. Hoodbhoy

Sometimes the degree of hypocricy that you exhibit really boggles one`s mind. Putting these shannigans aside that you frequently write, I do not see any ideological difference between you and Musharaf. Both of you are hell bent determine to gnaw the ideological foundation of our nation down. If you are a thinker then he is the doer. You want us to disarm ourselves so that we become sitting ducks to the aggresion of your new masters, the neo-imperialist thugs, and Musharaf goes a step further and actually dismantels our defence programs. Our enemies want to divide us and rule over us, you give the direction as to how to divide us, and Musharaf actually does the grunt work by killing our own citizens. You write thesis after thesis on how dictators like saddam have killed his own people while you incite Musharaf and direct him on how to kill his own people and also how to get away with it. Democracy shamocracy what the fukk. You all look the same to me. Please stop making further chutiya out of us and get a decent job that doesn`t involve inciting the murder of innocent human beings ok?