Employment Equity in India’s Private Sector

I think this article goes to the heart of the matter:

http://www.ashanet.org/library/newsletters/patrika-2004-09-16.html#caste

Any such goverment mandated scheme only makes the lines between people more rigid. Successive generations far from forgetting their caste orgins, find caste related distinctions and sterotypes reinforced by such schemes.

anything but a straight answer

#41 by dost-mittar on October 26, 2004 7:11am PT
``....Isn`t it also not a part of the social responsibility of the govt. to ensure that the private sector also acts in a socially responsible way? Don`t we have worker safety laws, child labour laws, minimum wage laws, working condition laws? Should we scrap these too? Should we start this scrapping process in India or the United States, that mecca of capitalism..............``

I started with the premise that there is a clear demarcation of efforts to be made by the Private Sector and the State. The State clearly has a vast infrastructure and a Bureaucracy that gets funded the huge contribution of monies provided by the private sector in the form of direct and indirect taxes.
So the moot question is - if the state is unable to utilize all these resources properly to deliver the social goods to the poor and the deprived should she force the private sector to assign its resources (apart from taxes) in order to compensate for its mis-appropriation of the resources??
and, Should the Private Sector be penalized for the failure of the State??

If this Cabinet decision gets the consent of the President, it would become the long whip with which the Reds would flog the Indian Capitalism. This decision disguises itself in the form of ``affirmative action`` only tries to penalize the Private Sector for all the mistakes of the politicians and their bureaucracy!!
the State has a clear responsibility in acting as an arbitrator of the disputes between the citizens and the lega entities and acting as a protector of the rights of the under-priviledged through affirmative legislation and its enforcement.
Laws such as Labour and Wage Acts ensure that the nobody can infringe the citizen rights of the under-priviledged by providing for detereence in the form of punishments and penalties through these Acts.
However, now you are talking about the State forcing the Private Sector to provide for Socal Goods and Services which it is traditionally supposed to provide to the citizens (e.g Infrastucture, Policing, Judiciary, Municipal etc). I am not talking about a voluntary contribution to Social Goods and Services but a forced and a mandatory one which would be accompanied by severe penalties in case of non-compliance!!!
I know that his brain wave is from these frustrated Stalinists like Yechuri and Surjeet who have always wanted a totalitarian State which can control Indian Capitalism.
This is just the begining of manifestation of their repressed Stalinism and it is soon going to manifest when the State acts as a totalitarian entity and would force:
1. Private Construction Companies to lay Roads mandatorily for the community free of cost.
2. Private Transporters to provide Public transport mandatorily.
3. Private Security Companies to do mandatory Policing of the community in place of Police (which gets increasingly assigned to VIP duties).
4. Private Health facilities to provide its facilities to the government .
5. Private Waste Management Companies to provide its vehicles and resources free of cost for municipal purposes.(So that municipal babus can pass their fake bills and channelize the cuts up stream)

and so on.

If the State wants to force the Private Companies to tie their hands at recruitment and how they should run their business then I would close my shop and leave this country forever than live with this nonsense of having SC/ST and OBC Commissions calling every day at the office and asking for my reply on any frivolous complaints that would get made by these `(un)priviledged` staff.

#41 by dost-mittar on October 26, 2004 7:11am PT
``....Isn`t it also not a part of the social responsibility of the govt. to ensure that the private sector also acts in a socially responsible way? Don`t we have worker safety laws, child labour laws, minimum wage laws, working condition laws? Should we scrap these too? Should we start this scrapping process in India or the United States, that mecca of capitalism..............``

I started with the premise that there is a clear demarcation of efforts to be made by the Private Sector and the State. The State clearly has a vast infrastructure and a Bureaucracy that gets funded the huge contribution of monies provided by the private sector in the form of direct and indirect taxes.
So the moot question is - if the state is unable to utilize all these resources properly to deliver the social goods to the poor and the deprived should she force the private sector to assign its resources (apart from taxes) in order to compensate for its mis-appropriation of the resources??
and, Should the Private Sector be penalized for the failure of the State??

If this Cabinet decision gets the consent of the President, it would become the long whip with which the Reds would flog the Indian Capitalism. This decision disguises itself in the form of ``affirmative action`` only tries to penalize the Private Sector for all the mistakes of the politicians and their bureaucracy!!
the State has a clear responsibility in acting as an arbitrator of the disputes between the citizens and the lega entities and acting as a protector of the rights of the under-priviledged through affirmative legislation and its enforcement.
Laws such as Labour and Wage Acts ensure that the nobody can infringe the citizen rights of the under-priviledged by providing for detereence in the form of punishments and penalties through these Acts.
However, now you are talking about the State forcing the Private Sector to provide for Socal Goods and Services which it is traditionally supposed to provide to the citizens (e.g Infrastucture, Policing, Judiciary, Municipal etc). I am not talking about a voluntary contribution to Social Goods and Services but a forced and a mandatory one which would be accompanied by severe penalties in case of non-compliance!!!
I know that his brain wave is from these frustrated Stalinists like Yechuri and Surjeet who have always wanted a totalitarian State which can control Indian Capitalism.
This is just the begining of manifestation of their repressed Stalinism and it is soon going to manifest when the State acts as a totalitarian entity and would force:
1. Private Construction Companies to lay Roads mandatorily for the community free of cost.
2. Private Transporters to provide Public transport mandatorily.
3. Private Security Companies to do mandatory Policing of the community in place of Police (which gets increasingly assigned to VIP duties).
4. Private Health facilities to provide its facilities to the government .
5. Private Waste Management Companies to provide its vehicles and resources free of cost for municipal purposes.(So that municipal babus can pass their fake bills and channelize the cuts up stream)

and so on.

If the State wants to force the Private Companies to tie their hands at recruitment and how they should run their business then I would close my shop and leave this country forever than live with this nonsense of having SC/ST and OBC Commissions calling every day at the office and asking for my reply on any frivolous complaints that would get made by these `(un)priviledged` staff.

DostMitter,

I am not at all surprised that you would write this article. Unfortunately you did not
answer if you have tried to read the authors that I had mentioned in the previous posting.

Also, you claim that this is not a govt ministry - but - all Govt expansion happens with
such feel good legislation. We have seen the unions in India - they are merely
arms of the political parties. What kind of enforcement methods will be there ? otherwise
who will care. A business exists only because its shareholders think that the returns
they are getting on their investment in the business is better than another one.

One other thing - as usual you have come up with an arbitrary limit of 1000 employees
for th size of the company. Do you know how many private sector businesses in India
have more than 1000 employees ? - I would be very surprised if there are more than
2000 or 2500. So that is a maximum of 2.5 million people.
Do you know what the labor force of India is ? 650 million !!!

Precisely because of thinking like yours - the Indian Govt has reserved a large number
of areas for the ``small scale sector`` and see what happened ? China kicked our butt.

Competition, free movement of goods within states, lowering taxes and tariffs are
what will make the poor wealthy.
My other suggestion to you is that you should read the book by Hernando DeSoto
(a Peruvian) called the Myth Of Capita.

Btw, you are an economist - right ?

Dear Brother,
Your question - why are hindus always pissed and angry?

Its blood pressure plus diabetes

Progression of diabetes is driven by the brain`s rising demand for glucose, which may be inferred from WOB behavior. Initially patient is unaware of its elevated blood sugar. Since WOB is silent patient is healthy. As demand for glucose rises, blood glucose rises too (hyperglycemia), reaching a threshold above which glucose is spilled into the urine (glucosuria). Despite the waste of glucose, glucosuria is the most optimal (cheapest) way to maintain equilibrium, otherwise patient might faint. Glucosuria leads to loss of fluid (polyuria), and WOB sends its first signals, like thirst, meaning:`` I am losing control of water resources, get me some water``. Mind obliges, yet soon it is required to wake up several times during the night in order to pee and drink. Patient becomes tired and worn out and really pissed.

So you see there is a medical reason behind all this irrational behaviour. I hope you can find it in your heart to forgive us.

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#99 by Urstruly

Do you have ANY sharam or haya? A momeen like you is reduced to grovelling in front of these teli-kanjar-banias, during the most holy month of ramd/zan? Dont you know that god is kind to its believers and will bring death and distruction to others? Why do you think that you have to beg like a naked sadhu in front of be-sharam hindians considering that god almighty is on your side? You should simply let them know that what they do is wrong (assuming that you have got the ulema verdict regarding the halality of reservation reform according to islamic jurisprudence) and inform them that they should be ready for the consequences god-willing. have some khudi man.

Dear Urstruly,

I think that you have missed the point of this entire debate, it is about backward classes, and not about religion. Tommorow someone might stake a claim that the number of boxers or hockey players, or lawyers, or pilots or anyone else however classified are poorly represented in the government. We are talking about backward classes for a reason.

Backward classes have been badly discriminated by the Indian society for over 30-45 centuries. As far as my knowlege of Indian history goes, Muslims have mostly had a very favoured position in Indian society for most of the period since the Slave Kings came to Delhi.

So please stick to the topic, and why dont you write a seperate article about the poor plight of the Indian Muslim, since you seem to be an authority on the subject.

#99 by Urstruly
//Dear Hindus...I cannot help but ask this question why are you always pissed and so angry?...//

Well - because, hindoos are sick of your whining, man!! ..... Day in and day out - you faithfuls whine and fret and foam at the mouth. Not only the hindus - entire world is sick of it - everybody is pissed at you good-for-nothing cry-babies.

No hindoo cares what you have to say about Indian Muslims. Just like no paki muslim cares about what any hindu says about pakistani hindus. That`s the way it is, my friend.

dost mittar #100 Dr Yunus is of course highly respected and certainly deserves the Nobel Prize. I think he has single-handedly done more than any Nobel peace prize winner I can recall - something like 7-8 million women (meaning 25-30 million people, counting family members of each woman) in bangladesh alone have seen the light of hope and the dignity of being gainfully self-employed.

Your point about involving employers in any scheme is a good one. In fact the ILO has a scheme whereby employers in developing countries are convinced that they should set aside some hours each day of their child laborers for education financed by the employer. My nephew did this as an ILO volunteer (this was in lieu of military service in Germany) in Pakistan for 5-6 months a couple of years ago, and was quite pleased with the large number of small industry owners who signed up for this child labor education scheme.

Trouble with government interventions is that government bureaucrats in developing countries particularly have a great incentive to intervene in the economy anyway, since it opens new channels of corruption for them. Thus, if there is to be any interventions in the labor markets, I would rather trust international agencies like ILO to institute global standards, and undertake activities similar to the one I mention above to promote labor welfare (using peace corp type volunteers who are not subject to the same power grabs that third world bureaucrats seek to do). But such interventions of course meet with fierce resistance from local politicians and bureaucrats since it removes them from power and who hide their self-interest under the guise of nationalism. I am not sure if computerization per se would make much of a difference in this case. Perhaps I am missing something here.

CALL CENTER MAKES IT TO CONAN SHOW

this is a clip of that show. its totally hillarious.

http://chintan.net/conan.wmv

tahmed32#94:
Grameen Bank is indeed a success story and one wonders why Dr. Mohammad Yunus has not received a Nobel yet. Both the US and Canada have programmes where federal contractors commit themselves to achieving employmen equity in the workplace.
Re. bureaucracy, I am not in favour of big bureaucracies. This is only a notional piece. If it is to be developed into a program, a lot of work would have to go into it. With the widespread use of computers and Internet, I believe a program can now be designed without too much use of paper work (e.g, standardised formats, online filing, etc.). I would also prefer to have an employer organization, such as FICCI/CII to be involved in the program, to ensure employer cooperation and to take their genuine concerns into consideration.

Dear Hindus;

I cannot help but ask this question why are you always pissed and so angry? Why is it almost impossible to strike a decent conversation with you people? A perfectly legitimate question on a perfectly related forum was inquired as to why a certain segment of your society is under-represented. It was an open forum and I did not see a warning sign that says ``Dogs and Pakistanis need not interact``. So why are you so indignant. Did you feel that you got caught while hiding something nefarious? Did you feel that my question may have strum the very prejudices that are inherent in you but you do not like to show? Why can`t I get a decent and straight reply? You must be hiding something, otherwise why on earth would you drag my religion and my citizenship as an issue. What is wrong with you people? What can I do to make you feel secure from your inferiority complexes?

There is reservation for muslims backward castes under OBC quota as far as employment is concerned.

Regards

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