Employment Equity in India’s Private Sector

``#69 by rahul_capri on October 27, 2004 5:17am PT

Anil, the cooperative movement has been going on. Clearly it does not affect everyone.Only the skilled labourers.``

Rahul: This is not entirely correct. ``Lijjat Papad`` is an example how private initiatives work. I read somewhere, ``Lijjat Papad`` now has the largest share of the world`s Papad market, for whatever it is worth. This private initiative was organized in Bombay by some women to employ housewives to come and work.

Regarding education I have previously given here an example of a student from Bhopal`s Medical College, who along with a muslim lab. demonstrator went into the heart of muslim slums of the cities, and under the threatening eyes of Mullahs and goons found the way to convince old ladies to let young girls be empowered with education. Now there is community service program to graduate from this medical college according this lady doctor who now practices in the U.S.

Reservations and government initiatives cannot correct the mistakes, in diverse and pluralistic society like India. Private community based initiative do work, if anything the policies should be to encourage such intitiatives, is my mind. Otherwise, someone will self immolate again in India to make the counter point.

Anil

Anil

Anil

The affirmative action program in the US does require private employers to hire women, Blacks, American-Indians, etc., into the workplace. However, it does NOT require that these disadvantaged groups be hired into the management ranks. So, a hotel chain like Hilton could hire Black women as maids and Black men as janotors and meet the requirements of the law. It does not force Hilton to hire a Black as their CEO.

If a person like Dick Parsons becomes the CEO of AOL, that is clearly based on merit, not because Dick Parsons is black. After all, the board of AOL -- all of them probably white -- voted to make him CEO when Steve Case resigned.

On the other hand, what Mr. Dost-Mittar wants is representation for the ``underprivileged`` in India in the management ranks of private companies. This concept is imported from Malaysia where you need a native Malay (bumiputra) to be the chairman/MD of a company. All that happened is that a whole generation of parasites grew up. Fortunately for Malaysia, they are sitting on rubber, tin, natural gas and oil -- all in large quantities. They also have an enterpreneurial group in the Chinese community which was willing to hand off 10% of their profits to a figurehead ``bumi`` so long as the idiot did not interfere in daily business activities. Despite this and the prosperity of Malaysia, even today you can see that the bottom-dwellers in Malaysia are the Malays and the Indian coolies who haven`t migrated off the rubber plantations.

India is already exporting iron ore to China and Japan, importing scrap steel to make new steel (meaning: Indians can`t make steel from scratch or can`t manage the Commie unions so that they could actually make steel from iron ore; and don`t quote me the four or five steel plants set up by the government in the 60s). All Indians are trying to get a government job so they can become babus or want a white collar job so that they don`t have to earn their bread by the sweat of their brows. To this bunch of slackers, Dost-Mittar wants to add another group of no-good mufukkas whose only claim is the constant whine that their great-grandfather wasn`t given a glass of water by some uppercasteman. Get over it, I say. Dig your own well. Anf if it spouts oil, keep it to yourself and don`t share it with the brahmins.

You can clearly see this crap in government organizations. The ads say: Wanted, Research Officers for the AEC, Total of 3 positions, 1 position reserved for SC/ST. Please tell me exactly what being an SC/ST brings to the research officer`s job. If the man`s life experience is that he went to school and college on scholarship based not on ability, that he got selected for this job with 40% of the marks whereas all the others had to graduate in the First Division (60% or more), that he is getting a salary whether he does any work or not, why should he work? But then, the same Human Rights Organizations who wanted this worthless man hired in the first place are screaming bloody murder that there is way too much radiation leakage around the nuclear power plants. What do you expect, responsible behavior from irresponsible people?

Insanity has been defined as doing the same thing over and over again and expecting a different result. This article then is a perfect recipe for national insanity.

Ref Urstruly #74

[Dost Mitter

I do not know about other 59 countries but Pakistan is an Islamic polity thru its constitution (or whatever is left of it). It is not a secular country. In Islamic polity the Ameer cannot be a non-Muslim, if it does n`t fit your moral standards then so be it, we are not answerable to you, we are accountable to our God. However, if you take this as a licence to discriminate against your own Muslim population then you must also stop pontifying others as well. That was my point.]

Well, Malaysia has 45% ethnic Malays and not much more Muslims population-wise since most Indians are Hindus, most Chinese worship whatever is handy and the aborigines are still hiding out in the forests. Malaysia claims to be multi-ethnic unlike your defense of Pakistan which you claim is an Islamic country and so has been told by Allah to have a Muslim (Sunni, not Shia, not Ahmadiyya, not Ismaili) as its Amir. So can you tell me why the reservation for Muslims in Malaysian universities is 80%?

Let me give you the answer: that is because the Malays threatened to run amok killing the Chinese. That is when Muslims are a 45% minority. Why should we expect rational behavior when they reach 98% as they do in Pakistan or 100% as in Afghanistan, Saudi Arabia, Yemen, Morocco, Tunisia, or any of the other 58 Islamic countries? And do we really want to add ANOTHER nation of morons called Palestine to this mix?

Breeding Muslims out of existence -- much like done with the small-pox virus -- is the only way out.

DM i thunks that your perceptions are based on you belonging to the older dilliwala crowd. during that time, the times of Dilli Cloth Mills (DCM of bharatram-charatram fame), escorts etc, where the larger private companies which were hiring only biradari folks. they could afford it because only they had the ``liecense`` to produce the goods and faced little competition on terms of cost or quality.

in current india, larger companies face a tough internatinal competition, but will not hire on biradari system for staff positions, its too impractical. sure, some personal recommendations work, but so what? nothing wrong there, as far as the company profits.

i like your idea of private orgs quantifying their staffings though.

i recommend that a grant of Rs. 100 lakh should be spread among SAHMAT, SABRANG, and AI-MPLB so they can do a 10 year study of the trends. This will keep them very busy. 6 independent studies should be commenced. we should invite NGOs, preferably led by former pres. Carter to audit the books of these orgs on a quarterly basis.

to keep usrtruely happy, a special grant of 25 lakhs each should be awarded to ulema from deoband, jhang, karachi, hydrabad, ajmer and lucknow to research if affirmative action is halal or haram and research hadith if needed. sangh parivar can audit these funds. separate independent recommendations should be drawn for each of the shia, sunni (barelvi and deobandi), ahmedi, bohra, ismaili etc sects.

this is the cheapest solution and will give us 10 year respite to study the issue. its best spending of money.. i am sure CII will come-up with the money once they see the beauty of this scheme, and fund the project so the exchequer need not be burdened.

now, if the commies and ulemas cannot come to an agreement, we should then extend the study period.

hope you consider my sincere suggestions, thanks.

interesting article. The question of government regulation of labor markets is of course a central issue in US and european economies, and so there are plenty of lessons on what works and what does not. Thus, you should also recognize that the scheme you propose would require additional bureaucracy to administer, and additional government interventions in the private sector. In Germany, where there are also a number of laws designed to promote the welfare of the employee, companies are reluctant to hire additional workers because of the difficulty of firing them e.g. UK was the ``sick man of europe`` in the 1960`s and 70`s until the Thatcher revolution freed labor markets.

Instead of intervening in company hiring and firing, it may be better to introduce something equivalent to minority business licenses in the US (where a certain percentage of federal, state and local contracts are required by law to be given to minorities). This would stimulate the rise to an entrepreneurial class in India from among the poorer classes.

Another option is to provide the financing and technical support needed create entrepreneurial opportunities for the poorer people. This of course is the microcredit model that has proved to be a tremendous success in Bangladesh - indeed, this is one big idea that has spread from the east to the west, with the Bangladesh microcredit model being used in countries like india, pakistan, a number of african and latin american country, and even in places like Chicago and your own My Canada as well. I have seen this work for myself in Bangladesh and the most wonderful thing I ever saw in my life was the new-born confidence of these women (many of whom were among the poorest in that country - including a group of hindu women in Bangladesh whom I had the honor of visiting in their normal meeting place which was a humble one room place that also doubled as their templed. I was never so touched in visiting any place on earth as I was in that place - since that was the place where humble women from one of the poorest countries on earth were seeking the dignity that comes with being their own bosses.

Why do you guys even bother responding to urstruly?

Urstruly,

The truth however, is that, even if we accept that Muslim population is 12% and their representation is less than 3% then I would interpret it as glass is 75% empty. The 75% Muslims are still, unrepresented, under-represented, and disenfranchised.. I want to know what government of India is doing to enfranchise these 75% unfortunate souls.

The problem with Muslims is their ideology which is outmoded, impractical, stiff and regressive. Muslims are the worst victims of Islam Release yourself from the clutches of fundamentalism and you can restore what you had before hitting the bottom.

As a Pakistani, you should be worried more about illiteracy, population density, religious fanaticism in your own country instead of resting your eyes on neighbour`s door.
But may be your god teaches you to snatch from your neighbour and pat on your back, unfortunately both you and your god are wrong about this. Its not gonna work.

Why don`ts you ask yourself that
* Why paki army killed 300000 bangladeshis
* Why paki army raped bangla womens
* Why did they burnt bangla universities
* Why do they tolerate madrassas
* Why you spend 20% of your GDP on your army
* Why you think that you are comparable to India
* Why is your land the only place that reveres the invaders
* Why a man is allowed 4 women to marry with and women are not
* Why you ask your women to cover up instead of turning your head away
* Why do you dance in the street when 3000 people are killed
* Why you allow muslim man to marry non-muslim but not vice versa
* Why do you think you are superior than all other faiths
* Why do you see everything in terms of religion

Unless you come up with an answer that lifts you out from the bottomless hole that you`re in, you`re doomed!

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Stuka

The Indian census board routinely manipulates the census data to show that Muslims are fewer in number so that the government do not have to provide them representation, jobs, and education on relative parity. I would rather beleive a Hindu religious nut who whines non stop that Muslims are multiplying like rabits and according to them Muslims have far exceeded the 25% mark. It is a double edged sword that is only smoting the necks of Muslims. Hindu benefits either way. But I want to see the truth.

The truth however, is that, even if we accept that Muslim population is 12% and their representation is less than 3% then I would interpret it as glass is 75% empty. The 75% Muslims are still, unrepresented, under-represented, and disenfranchised. Imagine a country where 75% population is unemployed or does not have right to vote? Even during great depression the unemplyment rate in civilized world did not go beyond 30%. I want to know what government of India is doing to enfranchise these 75% unfortunate souls. I want to know what you are doing to change that other than providing cooked up statistics to justify this inhuman status quo. Arjunm says that google is owned by Indians now. How can I expect fairness from google? I need to know it through an independent source.

one thing is for sure, Advani is asking for ``mannat`` at every temple in the land for this to become law :-)

Urstruly:

Urstrulyisms and Facts:

``Had the participation of Muslims, who constitute from 20% to 25% of population of India, been close to 10% or 12 % then we could blame the disparity on education and other apolitical factors in the society but a figure of less than 3% indicates the criminal and anti-human nature of discrimination in your society. ``


The population of Muslims is 12% including the state of Jammu and Kashmir. The representation of Muslims is 3% on average. Highest in Jammu and Kkashmir, lowest in Bihar and UP which have the highest populations of Muslims. Reason was the comprehensive migration of the upper class and significant migration of the middle class. Not to say discrimination does not exist, but it is not the primary factor let alone the only factor. Amongst educated Muslims, the discrpancy is statistically insignificant.



`` Now I know for a fact that IK Gujral or probably VP Singh, in mid 80`s after Indra, tried to give 0.5% extra quota to lower caste hindus,``


Wrong. The affirmative action / reservation in India is 18.5 percent for scheduled castes and tribes. VP Singh, in 1991, IMPLEMENTED the Mandal Commission extending reservations to OBC (Other Backward Castes) to 49.5%. The 49.5% was decided after supreme court of India said federal reservation cannot extend beyond 50%. States like Tamil Nadu have more than 60% reservations.


``The government was eventually forced to take this reform back.``

Untrue. The upper caste agitation had no traction amongst political parties. The Supreme Court upheld the Mandal Commission implementation as well.

You can verify all this from Google. You can also check the article I had written on Chowk about this by doing a search on Parag Vohra.

DUDE #70

Maybe having seen this kind of discrimination you may want to bring some of them into the chsoen land of the pure like the Isrealis did with the Falashas. While at that maybe provide the Biharis of Banglaland with some space in the backyards of the feudal ogres of Panjab and Sind.

Whichever way you may want to look at it , you will provide cheap labour for the feudals or benefit from outstanding scientists.

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Urstruly:

[Had the participation of Muslims, who constitute from 20% to 25% of population of India, been close to 10% or 12 % then we could blame the disparity on education and other apolitical factors in the society but a figure of less than 3% indicates the criminal and anti-human nature of discrimination in your society]

Stop lying dude. The population of Muslims in India is about 12-14%.

Some points that have come up -
``Creamy layer`` so long as it`s only a layer and not the whole thing, throwing the baby out with the bath water, etc. Saying that we want absolutely homogenous results is similar to wanting socialism, not something that opponents of the quota system or affirmative action would ever wish for.
Granted that private sector enterprise may wish to hire on the basis of merit only but given two similarly qualified candidates for the same position I`d rather hire my friend`s nephew than a total stranger. The historically disadvantaged communities lack this networking and something ought to be done to correct it.
I am not sure I`d want a quota system for muslims as such. In my view it is a corrective for historical discrimination. Muslims have not been historically discriminated against.