Fahrenheit With a Silent H

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romair,

..... here is an equally honest answer : i think evangelical christians are obnoxious people who, under the right (or wrong) circumstances can be just as dangerous as the islamic suiciders and homiciders ............. the difference is that there are 250 million ``normal`` people to keep these 50 million or so looneys in check whereas in islam the line between the lunatic fringe and the so-called ``mainstream`` is very blurred .......... malik99 is a good example .....

............ geerally speaking, on a sunny day when there is no war going on in your backyard, evangelical christians are horribly self-righteous people with peaked looks who go around shoving their dead god in your face and making a nuisance out of themselves ....... they are almost as bad as the tableegis, except that they use deodrant and don`t smell as bad ........... but other than that, they are insufferable and, i might add, can pose a major threat to your health if armed and bothered ! .........

arjun # 25 says ``all this begs the question: If the bush administration is lying and OBL is abe lincoln in a turban, isn`t that all the more reason to trust bin laden when he says he ordered the 9/11 attacks? ``

AHA! Excellent question!

Now here is the funny thing - as HUGE a `victory` as 9/11 was for bin Laden, he has conspicusouly never uttered the words which said to the effect of ``I take full responsibility of 9/11. I ordered it and here is how I did it``. NEVER! Not ONCE! I challenge you to provide me a sentence which clearly states that. No interpretations. No beating around the bush. No derivations. Simply a statement which clearly indicates that ``I, Osama bin Laden did it.``

Strangely enough, he has used ample words and frequent times to applaud 9/11. But you see Arjun, applauding an action is not the same as taking responsiblity for that action.

And then, just to protect american public from the sights and sounds of bin Laden, the US media selectively releases the parts and passeges of bin laden`s statements - with good measure of stretch of imagination thrown in the translation. Never a full statement text. Wonder why?

Anyways, i think you are beginning to ask the right questions. Pretty soon you will realize that just because US government said so, does not mean that IT IS SO!

Peace!

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One root cause(among others) is that many `Muslims` feel themselves disadvantaged by the global capitalist economies and global influence of advanced countries. What should by moral right be theirs(ie., the whole world) is in the hands of the US and the Western countries.

So deeply is this `injustice` felt that the atrocities of Saddam or the Taliban never registered on the injustice scale, but the headscarf rule in France did. And a country chock full of free Muslims who had full sovereignty over their own affairs, their own taxes, their own land and resources for 57 years like Pakistan is still citing `root cause` for its own bad choices and for the condition of its population. Then what hope for other Muslim countries who never even got a fair chance because the West was playing its post-colonial games with them?

Except for Indian Muslims(and no doubt many others who are not raised that way) the ordinary response from an `Islam in danger`-raised Muslim in ANY disagreement is that he/she will immediately position himself/herself as a victim. If that does not work, he/she will position the disagreement as `Islam in danger`. To bring this sort of `I am your victim, you owe me` type of `aggression` into EVERY Muslim-nonMuslim interaction is fundamentally dishonest and politically self-defeating beyond a point(refer sovereign Muslim country cited above).

Thus for example the Palestine issue has just become a dishonest intellectually-lazy excuse for bad choices of Muslims 1000s of miles away. What is the reason for Bin Laden`s close associates to get support from Pakistanis and their government when these associates have a strongly anti-Shia agenda and have no hesitation in attacking Pakistan`s and Afghanistan`s own Shias ? Same `root cause Palestine`? That cannot be cited as the reason for Bin Laden`s anti-Iran Saudi-funded associates to apostatise and murder Shias because Iran supports the Palestinians too! So who should be urged to look for root cause to spare certified victim Muslims the blame for those attacks - in the official oppressor list only hindoos remain. And that is exactly what Pakistani ministers do after every Shia attack, ie, blame the Indians.

Simply because genuine political causes exist, can mass murderers like Bin Laden be so unthinkingly ceded the right to represent these causes ?

For nonMuslims to address genuine issues hurting `victim mindset` Muslims can be difficult if such Muslims feel justice means dominance over nonMuslims, not equality with nonMuslims. If such victimhood is to become an entrenched tradition, it will continue until Muslims rule the world as a Khilafat, which means it will continue forever.

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hamidm: A question, for which I am hoping you can supply an honest reply.

What is your view of Christian Evangelists?

Their motto is that anyone who does not consider Jesus to be his/her savior is going to hell. Based on this, you and I are going to hell...........

For the interactors who have pounced on Shujaat for this very well written and very logical piece, all i have to say to you is this:

You continue to give benefit of doubt to the proven cheaters, and liars, and stealers. This is PROVEN. Its in front of you - no WMDs, no link to al-qaeda, NOTHING! The rationale for killing 100,000 iraqis and 1200 americans was FALSE! UN says that. Other world agencies say that. For GOD`s SAKE, US ITSELF says that!!! Yet, you continue to parrott the lines of that even these theives and LIARS have disowned. Shame on you, the educated non-thinking slaves who try to pretend to be intellectuals.

If your wives had cheated on you this much or lied this many times, you would have divorced them long time ago. YET, you display a divinely patience and understanding and spirit of forgiveness for these thugs. You pounce at anyone who dares to remind you of the deceit and thuggery of this administration.

Your education has turned you into mechanical robots, with no rationalization and no rational thinking.

ascribe blame to those who publicly accept it.
osama has been on tv repeatedly but most recently openly admitting that he was proud of the WTC attacks and that he wants the american people to realize that their fate lies in thier hands and they sudnt trust bush or kerry.
unfortunately the american people panic easily and will choose to take the shortcut the cowards way out the expected route and do something utterly crazy by re-electing bush? i heard someone on fox say its likely as american people usualyl go with what they already know when theyre panicked.
God help us if hes re-elected...but if kerry does win, ill be pleasantly surprised and partially happy.

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the amazing root cause.

some of us look at the totality of what communities offer to this humanity.

some communities defend themselves vigorously, using whatever method they can while offering humanity developments in the fields of democracy, falafel, particle physics, desert agricuture, anti-balistic missile batteries, medicine, chemistry, security fences, voice over IP and symphony orchestra.

others while haphazardly defending something abstract contribure developments in whining, slavery, demolition, and outdated jurisprudence.

i think the support for root cause will dramatically increase with higher contributions.

I wonder if you can dig up favoribility rating of the Bush administration in the same countries?

You can keep harping on the rhetoric that Israel is not to blame, and it is the Saudis, the Iranians, the Pakistanis, and the rest of the darn Muslim world that is to blame. And somebody will come around and tell you that you`re full of shit and that it is rather the other way around, ad nauseum.

The fact is that Zionist movement does factor into geopolitics, and so does Saudi movement [Wahabism], and so does the United States for supporting both of these countires and others. Another fact is that the world is hurtling toward a major global conflict and it would be prudent to examine all aspect of this conflict. Now Moore, having become such a huge force in the American mainstream, should have highlighted other important aspects, such as the Zionist movement, so that the American people get a balanced view.

Osama IS guilty as charged - he has said so himself. If his behavior is akin to cancer, then you cannot ignore the causes - that is if you`re really intereted in resolving this major conflict facing the world today.

Thank you Pi for understanding my point.

9/11 was not a cause...it`s part of the series of effects. People, at least here in North America, didn`t bother asking why would someone want to do this, who is benefitting from this, etc. Basic questions that anyone would ask after any crime occured. So why not in this case?

To beat the criminal you have to understand him. Basic criminology.

I think everyone has the right to agree or respectfully disagree. But I don`t think we have to be immature and sarcastic.

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//...MY point was that yes, that ``country of 4 million people`` and anyone belonging to that ideology DOES have the primary role in world terrorism ...//

Yes sir - we get your point. It`s the Zionist ideology that`s responsible. It`s their fault - They made Osama do it. Osama should NOT be blamed for what happened on 9/11.

Is this correct - or I am mis-quoting you again?