Mohammad Gill November 1, 2004
#37 Posted by manu on July 2, 2005 5:42:33 am
a quote from somewhere in my childhood
``truly man is the king of all beasts, for his brutality exceeds theirs.``
mr gill, from somebody who`s family came to india from lahore in 47,.... did an eye for an eye make our world blind?
``truly man is the king of all beasts, for his brutality exceeds theirs.``
mr gill, from somebody who`s family came to india from lahore in 47,.... did an eye for an eye make our world blind?
#36 Posted by ZahraJ on November 6, 2004 9:06:22 am
Dost Mittar:
Thank you for pointing out the invisible and sometimes visible bar. I had not paid much attention to it.
As a gesture of civility, the governments can submit an apology to their masses. But I am not sure the governments represent civility in any form and shape. Just like, I am not sure if the culture puts any emphasis on ``civility``. There is a lot of emphasis on unrelated and petty matters but expecting basic civility from both India and Pakistan is asking for too much.
To your point, if an apology is extended and everyone hears it loud and clear on both ends, then the masses may feel acknowledged for the turmoil they went through - be it emotional, mental, monetary, spiritual, physical, personal or whatever ......... the breakdown goes on and on. And, there may be finally a ``closure`` to this emotional episode.
Hope all is well on your end and you are enjoying the changing colors in your part of the world. It`s a beautiful time of the year. Rest is fine.
Bye Bye.
Thank you for pointing out the invisible and sometimes visible bar. I had not paid much attention to it.
As a gesture of civility, the governments can submit an apology to their masses. But I am not sure the governments represent civility in any form and shape. Just like, I am not sure if the culture puts any emphasis on ``civility``. There is a lot of emphasis on unrelated and petty matters but expecting basic civility from both India and Pakistan is asking for too much.
To your point, if an apology is extended and everyone hears it loud and clear on both ends, then the masses may feel acknowledged for the turmoil they went through - be it emotional, mental, monetary, spiritual, physical, personal or whatever ......... the breakdown goes on and on. And, there may be finally a ``closure`` to this emotional episode.
Hope all is well on your end and you are enjoying the changing colors in your part of the world. It`s a beautiful time of the year. Rest is fine.
Bye Bye.
#35 Posted by teshah on November 5, 2004 5:56:34 pm
32 by tehmed
I fully agree with the suggestion for raising a virtual Partition Tragedies Wall in the Chowk. I would however suggest that it may better be named as Deeware Giria as this barbaric carnage in the name of religion which reached its peak on the eve of partition is still going on though in a low key. I would have suggested a Commission of Truth and Reconciliation on the pattern of the one held in South Africa but I am afraid we have not yet reached that stage. The Partition did not resolve any problem of Hindostan, much less that of religious hatred. In fact so far as Muslims are concerned the very name is becoming a synonym to terrorism which has become an international problem.
The real tragedy on the international scale is the fact that the Muslims failed to adopt themselves to the imperatives of the world turned into a global village. The very fundamentals of their religion needed changes (One may call it Ijtihad) which only a new prophet could bring about to avoid its clash with the global civilization, but the Mulla in his effort to safeguard his monopoly of Islam made this impossible by closing the door to any communication with Allah. Allama Iqbal had foreseen this much earlier when in a couplet he had stated:
Jaanta he jis pih roushan baatane ayyaam he
Mazdikiyat fitna-e-farda naheeN , Islam he
Gen. Musharraf is doing his best to introduce his enlightened moderation especially in the Madrissas but what is actually happening is that even the most modern English Medium schools are being converted into madrissas. I am ignorant about the position in India but the recent events in Gujerat, etc., do not board well. As it is we have yet to wait for the end of this carnage in the name of religion to justify raising of a monument in its memory.
I fully agree with the suggestion for raising a virtual Partition Tragedies Wall in the Chowk. I would however suggest that it may better be named as Deeware Giria as this barbaric carnage in the name of religion which reached its peak on the eve of partition is still going on though in a low key. I would have suggested a Commission of Truth and Reconciliation on the pattern of the one held in South Africa but I am afraid we have not yet reached that stage. The Partition did not resolve any problem of Hindostan, much less that of religious hatred. In fact so far as Muslims are concerned the very name is becoming a synonym to terrorism which has become an international problem.
The real tragedy on the international scale is the fact that the Muslims failed to adopt themselves to the imperatives of the world turned into a global village. The very fundamentals of their religion needed changes (One may call it Ijtihad) which only a new prophet could bring about to avoid its clash with the global civilization, but the Mulla in his effort to safeguard his monopoly of Islam made this impossible by closing the door to any communication with Allah. Allama Iqbal had foreseen this much earlier when in a couplet he had stated:
Jaanta he jis pih roushan baatane ayyaam he
Mazdikiyat fitna-e-farda naheeN , Islam he
Gen. Musharraf is doing his best to introduce his enlightened moderation especially in the Madrissas but what is actually happening is that even the most modern English Medium schools are being converted into madrissas. I am ignorant about the position in India but the recent events in Gujerat, etc., do not board well. As it is we have yet to wait for the end of this carnage in the name of religion to justify raising of a monument in its memory.
#34 Posted by salim on November 5, 2004 1:43:05 pm
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#33 Posted by amit on November 4, 2004 3:34:28 pm
Re:teshah#29
That was really a blood curdling description. We desis are capable of viciousness that can put the rest of the world to shame. And we lecture others about culture, civilization, spirituality and other such BS.
That was really a blood curdling description. We desis are capable of viciousness that can put the rest of the world to shame. And we lecture others about culture, civilization, spirituality and other such BS.
#32 Posted by tahmed32 on November 4, 2004 7:34:15 am
teshah #29 Thanks for sharing your eye-witness account on what was done to hindus and sikhs by thugs on our side of the border in 1947.
CHOWK STAFF: I have a suggestion. While the idea of a memorial with a wall (as Zehra J suggests) with names of the victims is a good one, you may wish to add a ``Partition Tragedies Wall`` on Chowk where eyewitnesses like Gill and Teshah can relate what they say, and where children of eyewitnesses (like self) may also add what they heard from their parents if the latter are no longer alive. A Chowk Committee could be formed, and tasked with whetting the input (and cross-checking where possible). We would thus have a ``Virtual Wall`` with accounts that are substantiated (i.e. where cross-checking was possible) identified as well as accounts that seem accurate even though substantiation was not possible). The reader could then draw his/her own conclusions. This will then become a permanent record that I am sure will become increasingly appreciated as time passes by and those who witnessed it or heard eyewitness accounts become old and become history themselves. A virtual wall would also be obviously read by far more people than any physical wall. This virtual memorial would thus supplement, not replace, the physical memorial.
I for one would be glad to volunteer some time for this effort to put up a ``Virtual Memorial`` on chowk.
CHOWK STAFF: I have a suggestion. While the idea of a memorial with a wall (as Zehra J suggests) with names of the victims is a good one, you may wish to add a ``Partition Tragedies Wall`` on Chowk where eyewitnesses like Gill and Teshah can relate what they say, and where children of eyewitnesses (like self) may also add what they heard from their parents if the latter are no longer alive. A Chowk Committee could be formed, and tasked with whetting the input (and cross-checking where possible). We would thus have a ``Virtual Wall`` with accounts that are substantiated (i.e. where cross-checking was possible) identified as well as accounts that seem accurate even though substantiation was not possible). The reader could then draw his/her own conclusions. This will then become a permanent record that I am sure will become increasingly appreciated as time passes by and those who witnessed it or heard eyewitness accounts become old and become history themselves. A virtual wall would also be obviously read by far more people than any physical wall. This virtual memorial would thus supplement, not replace, the physical memorial.
I for one would be glad to volunteer some time for this effort to put up a ``Virtual Memorial`` on chowk.
#31 Posted by dost_mittar on November 4, 2004 5:51:28 am
ZahraJ:
Good to see you here after a long time.
If you look at the top of the chowk home page, you will find that some people are trying to do exactly that, namely, to erect a memorial at the wagah border.
I also think that the governments of both India and Pakistan should offer an apology to all their citizens whom they could/did not protect and who were forced to leave their homes and hearths where they had lived for centuries. These measures should go some distance in healing those deep wounds.
Good to see you here after a long time.
If you look at the top of the chowk home page, you will find that some people are trying to do exactly that, namely, to erect a memorial at the wagah border.
I also think that the governments of both India and Pakistan should offer an apology to all their citizens whom they could/did not protect and who were forced to leave their homes and hearths where they had lived for centuries. These measures should go some distance in healing those deep wounds.
#30 Posted by ZahraJ on November 3, 2004 9:09:39 pm
Freethinker:
Hello. This is an intense and poignant memoir.
In my opinion, both India and Pakistan need to build a wall on both sides of Wahgah Border where memoirs from muslims, hindus, sikhs and other faiths and other denominations are posted right and left. That way both sides will be able to read about the good and bad experiences faced during the partition. This step will be ten million times better than having the daily flag ceremony on the borders with overweight men who are overdressed to perform a simple ceremony. It`s a waste of time, useless show of uniform, and waste of manpower.
Hope you are doing well.
Regards.
Hello. This is an intense and poignant memoir.
In my opinion, both India and Pakistan need to build a wall on both sides of Wahgah Border where memoirs from muslims, hindus, sikhs and other faiths and other denominations are posted right and left. That way both sides will be able to read about the good and bad experiences faced during the partition. This step will be ten million times better than having the daily flag ceremony on the borders with overweight men who are overdressed to perform a simple ceremony. It`s a waste of time, useless show of uniform, and waste of manpower.
Hope you are doing well.
Regards.
#29 Posted by teshah on November 3, 2004 7:20:26 pm
The story on the other side
The partition of India, which was envisaged by the political leaders of India as a measure of resolving the communal problem of India, proved actually like lifting of lid off a pressure cooker. It gave rise to horrible massacres on both sides of the dividing line and instead of resolving the problem rather made it worse. We are however presently concerned only with the human and moral aspect of the communal riots relevant to this process of division.
I was a young boy at the time of partition and being a Muslim was on the safer side of the divide in the city of Campbellpur in West Punjab. One day I learnt that a caravan of Hindu and Sikh refugees which was being taken to India was attacked by the goondas (Sorry, I cant call them Muslims) on its way at some distance from the city and it had been brought back to the Civil Hospital with all the dead and the wounded. I went to the hospital to see what has happened just out of curiosity.
As I reached the hospital I saw a horrible scene. Hundreds of wounded including women and children were lying on the ground, some crying for water but no body attending to them. I saw a truck full of dead bodies. I puled myself up to see it closely. What I saw made me so shocked and sick that I ever felt in my life as though my liver was coming to my mouth. I saw the truck full of dead bodies mostly of the women. These were so fresh that some of them, of beautiful young women, I saw resting by the side of the truck seemed to be quite alive. Quickly I got away and as my legs were trembling I came to rest along a rehra standing near by. There I heard a voice calling me by my name. Lo! When I looked towards it I saw a class fellow of mine lying on the ground wounded along with his mother and a young brother. At the same time I saw uncle Birbal, the best friend of my father, running among the wounded and helping them. I saw no body else on the scene to help these helpless, terrified people. I myself, a young boy, got overwhelmed and terrified by the scene retreated to my home as quickly as possible trying to comprehend what I had just seen as a nightmare. My heart weeps whenever I remember this tragic episode and I feel ashamed and guilty why I could not help those who needed my help so badly.
The partition of India, which was envisaged by the political leaders of India as a measure of resolving the communal problem of India, proved actually like lifting of lid off a pressure cooker. It gave rise to horrible massacres on both sides of the dividing line and instead of resolving the problem rather made it worse. We are however presently concerned only with the human and moral aspect of the communal riots relevant to this process of division.
I was a young boy at the time of partition and being a Muslim was on the safer side of the divide in the city of Campbellpur in West Punjab. One day I learnt that a caravan of Hindu and Sikh refugees which was being taken to India was attacked by the goondas (Sorry, I cant call them Muslims) on its way at some distance from the city and it had been brought back to the Civil Hospital with all the dead and the wounded. I went to the hospital to see what has happened just out of curiosity.
As I reached the hospital I saw a horrible scene. Hundreds of wounded including women and children were lying on the ground, some crying for water but no body attending to them. I saw a truck full of dead bodies. I puled myself up to see it closely. What I saw made me so shocked and sick that I ever felt in my life as though my liver was coming to my mouth. I saw the truck full of dead bodies mostly of the women. These were so fresh that some of them, of beautiful young women, I saw resting by the side of the truck seemed to be quite alive. Quickly I got away and as my legs were trembling I came to rest along a rehra standing near by. There I heard a voice calling me by my name. Lo! When I looked towards it I saw a class fellow of mine lying on the ground wounded along with his mother and a young brother. At the same time I saw uncle Birbal, the best friend of my father, running among the wounded and helping them. I saw no body else on the scene to help these helpless, terrified people. I myself, a young boy, got overwhelmed and terrified by the scene retreated to my home as quickly as possible trying to comprehend what I had just seen as a nightmare. My heart weeps whenever I remember this tragic episode and I feel ashamed and guilty why I could not help those who needed my help so badly.
#28 Posted by temporal on November 3, 2004 4:12:50 pm
Mohammed
thanks for sharing this it must be a cathartic experience
rehan hasan ansari used to work for a delhi based institute that collected and preserved first person accounts of the partition holocaust for future also there is The Legacy Project you may want to send a copy to them
there is also an English rendition of a faiz poem in the link
rgds
t
thanks for sharing this it must be a cathartic experience
rehan hasan ansari used to work for a delhi based institute that collected and preserved first person accounts of the partition holocaust for future also there is The Legacy Project you may want to send a copy to them
there is also an English rendition of a faiz poem in the link
rgds
t
#27 Posted by jang on November 3, 2004 2:35:41 pm
kaurasach
i understand the none leaves happily ... however, i dont understand how we can blame jinnah congress and nehru for mayhem done by specific hands.
is there not a possible systemic issue here? as the true jihadi says, just blaming jinnah and congress will only allow repetition of history, there is always some other jinnah-like politician waiting in the wings. that is the reason i query, not so much for putting blame. for example, it is said that sikhs always got tricked into doing the muscle-work for hindus. is it true? do sikhs think its true? do hindus think its true? urstruely thinks its true.
i understand the none leaves happily ... however, i dont understand how we can blame jinnah congress and nehru for mayhem done by specific hands.
is there not a possible systemic issue here? as the true jihadi says, just blaming jinnah and congress will only allow repetition of history, there is always some other jinnah-like politician waiting in the wings. that is the reason i query, not so much for putting blame. for example, it is said that sikhs always got tricked into doing the muscle-work for hindus. is it true? do sikhs think its true? do hindus think its true? urstruely thinks its true.
#26 Posted by kaurasach on November 3, 2004 9:53:35 am
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#25 Posted by drlokraj on November 3, 2004 7:48:02 am
Rightly said,this is story of thousands of people who fell victim to the partition in 1947.Lot of people still feel,partition was not required whereas there are many(mainly from Pakistan) who consider it was mandatory but I believe,majority of them belong to the post-partition era and hence,have not witnessed the holocast personally.Apart from the books and stories you mentioned,there is a little known novel by Ramanand Sagar-``Aur Insaan Mar Gaya`` in urdu and``Tamas``by Bhisham Sahni.Manto`s ``Tobha Tek Singh`` is by far the best satire written till date.
I have another view to share in the context of 1947.Punjab was an independent country before the English merged it with India after death of Ranjit Singh.In 1947,it was Punjab(and Bengal)which got divided in the process of giving birth to independent India and the new country Pakistan.Punjabis on both sides are still Punjabis(they may call themselves to be Indian or Pakistani,but in essence,they are only PUNJABIS).I have always found it easier to relate to someone from Lahore or Faislabad rather than someone from Chinnai or Thiruvanantapuram.I wonder if other Punjabis feel the same way.
I have another view to share in the context of 1947.Punjab was an independent country before the English merged it with India after death of Ranjit Singh.In 1947,it was Punjab(and Bengal)which got divided in the process of giving birth to independent India and the new country Pakistan.Punjabis on both sides are still Punjabis(they may call themselves to be Indian or Pakistani,but in essence,they are only PUNJABIS).I have always found it easier to relate to someone from Lahore or Faislabad rather than someone from Chinnai or Thiruvanantapuram.I wonder if other Punjabis feel the same way.
#24 Posted by irfanhamid on November 3, 2004 7:48:02 am
Gill sahab,
A very intense episode described simply and dispassionately, nice article. My grandfather was in Calcutta at the time of the partition, and had to take a train back to Pakistan. At one time he hid under a pile of dead bodies on the train to save himself from being killed by the marauders, it was an experience that shaped the rest of his life.
On a side note, being from Peshawar I have an interesting anectode. There is a small but substantial Sikh community in Peshawar, and all through the sectarian violence that erupts from time to time in Peshawar, never have I once heard of any violence directed toward the Sikh segment of the population. They, for their part, are also a very peaceful and calm community that lives in total religious and personal freedom in the heartland of the ``Islamic fundamentalist`` region of Pakistan.
Irfan.
A very intense episode described simply and dispassionately, nice article. My grandfather was in Calcutta at the time of the partition, and had to take a train back to Pakistan. At one time he hid under a pile of dead bodies on the train to save himself from being killed by the marauders, it was an experience that shaped the rest of his life.
On a side note, being from Peshawar I have an interesting anectode. There is a small but substantial Sikh community in Peshawar, and all through the sectarian violence that erupts from time to time in Peshawar, never have I once heard of any violence directed toward the Sikh segment of the population. They, for their part, are also a very peaceful and calm community that lives in total religious and personal freedom in the heartland of the ``Islamic fundamentalist`` region of Pakistan.
Irfan.
#23 Posted by Urstruly on November 3, 2004 6:58:48 am
Mr. Gill
Thanks for writing this poignant account of your ordeal. I hope it will give encoragment to other members of your generation to document their ordeal as well. People like you are our history and you are our future. The nations who do not remember their past are condemn to repeat it. I am a great proponent of a monument at Wagah border - our Holocaust Meuseum - that will not only document the struggle of our ancestors and the holocaust they suffered at the hands of their Hindu and Sikh who were once their neigbors and co-countrymen for eons, but it will also commemorate the sacrifices made by our mothers, fathers, uncles, sisters and friends in the course of making a dream come true. Nawaz Sharif must be commended to initiate such a project, which unfortunately was sacked by the current renegade military despot probably at the nod of his foreign masters. Shame on this a/hole. But if people like you will keep on writing, our history will become people`s history; it will be engraved on our hearts and minds and then no despot, no foreign agent, and no renegade will be able to erase it ever.
#22 Posted by Mrinal on November 3, 2004 5:46:26 am
So heartrending but narrated in such simple words without any ill-feeling.
Thank you Mr Gill.
Thank you Mr Gill.
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