Altaf Hussain Visits India: His Keynote Speech

Romair,

you are swinging all over the place. What you wanna hit at? My analysis of MQM and Altaf may be brutal but it does provide the basis of his current political plank. MQM and Altaf have shifted political gears many times during the last two decades. I am not going to hold that against them as I believe politics changes everyday and politicians have to adjust to emerging realities.
MQM and Altaf started out against Sindhi and not Punjabis. In fact, the forerunner of MQM was something called Punjabi, Pathan, Mohajir Itehad and its leader was Nawab Muzzafar of Aligarh from Hyderabad. Altaf was one of his followers in Hyderabad. Altaf started his political career in student politics from Hyderabad and not from Karachi. Knowing a little history sometimes helps to understand the political stand much better than taamak tweeian maarna!
MQM opposition to Punjab came in very late, actually in the late 90s when Rangers cracked down on MQM twice. To counter that Altaf sought support from the Sindhi nationalists, the former bogeymen for the MQM. And to gain that support he started making noises about Punjabis. You have not probably paid attention to the MQM rhetoric. they currently claim that Panjabis are exploiting Sindh. MQM never mentions Punjabi exploitation of Mohajirs because he knows it is not going to fly very far.
Mohajirs, even the ones on the lowest strata in Karachi and somewhat in Hyderabad are better off than most of the rural population in Pakistan. Per capita income in Karachi is probably four times more than any other city in Pakistan and Mohajirs are not the only beneficiaries of that wealth. Pathan, Punjabi, and even new immigrant Bengalis share that too. But the reality remains that originally Mohajir created opportunities in Karachi and lots of people benefit from that now.
The MQM struggle that started out against Sindhi quota and language issues morphed into many things like many other political struggles.

I am in fact a fan of Altaf Hussian- not of his politics but- the way he does politics in Pakistan. He has truly created a militant organization out of nowhere and initially without any financial support other than his own musclemen out-muscling every street thug in Karachi. If the Sharifs and the Bhuttos were as smart as Altaf, Pakistan army would have been history in Pakistan by now.
Indians talk of Dawood Ibrahim- In street smarts, Dawood is nowhere near Altaf and his organization.
Altaf has out hustled every political and military government in Pakistan and matched them not only body for body but by playing games and counter games. One has to admire the man for his guts alone. Despite all the strong arms tactics, his party is not a fascist organization but a very liberal political entity leading a group of people that are in Pakistan because of their funky sense of depravation based on religion.
Your assessment of Mushy and Mohajir General is way of the mark too. Altaf controls that too and the people that support his party would never favor Mush over Altaf.

labyrinth1
You are wrong in thinking that I take Urdu speaking as aliens or anything like that. What I oppose is their politics. They have been doing this minority politics since the dawn of the 20th century from India. We are now looking at almost the seventh generation of people from the minority provinces then in India and now in Pakistan, that are still carrying the cross of victimization by the majority. First Hindus, now Sindhi and Punjabi majority that they feel are victimizing them. That is not the case at all. This is politics of exclusion and not inclusion. Upper class and middle class Urdu speaking show a much better judgment when they stay away from the MQM but there are huge numbers of under class mohajir that still buy the exploitation by the majority baloney. Altaf, I must say sells it well.

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My dear ``friend``

Just because you didn`t see it doesn`t mean that Veeresh did not start the personal insults. Right in the first post he put up he was back with his favorite played out addressed to me... In any event, the way you `goofed` up, posting as Harish-Hyd and then posting by mistake under this handle... should say a word or two about your desperate situation.

Your last post was just lame, and once again proves the point I made earlier.

-YLH

Nakhok...

You`ve brought up the issue of `Biharis`... please also research which party opposes the repatriation of Biharis in Pakistan...

hint: its not the Punjabi dominated Muslim League... or Sindhi dominated PPP

The whole interact has, to a large extent, moved from whether what Altaf said was worthwhile to whether he should be allowed to say something.

Personally, I think there is more ``momentum`` to what Altaf said than what many years of past track records can show.

Dost-mittar/HP: I think everyone sees others` actions, based on biases/loyalties, they, themselves, have.

HP, I believe, is Sindhi. Sindhis tend to hate Muhajirs and vice-versa. Sindhis think Muhajirs have taken over their province and are already running it commercially, and will soon be running it politically. Muhajirs think Sindhis are lazy and have used all types of political tricks to keep Muhajirs out of jobs, like quota systems.

In addition, Sindhis dislike the Army, because there is hardly any Sindhi representation in the military. Muhajirs have been taught to dislike the military, and it has been portrayed to them, as a Punjabi Army by people like Altaf Hussain. Not realizing that Muhajirs are proportionately very well represented in the military`s officer class and that Karachi gets ten or more times the military budget, as any other city.

Hence, HP would see the Army (and Muhajirs) as the center of problems. Assuming he is Sindhi. I would see other things, based on my own biases, etc.

The only group interested in creating Pakistan were the Bengalis and ancestors of Pakistan`s Muhajir community. The rest of Pakistan, including Punjabis, had a Muslim majority, hence they felt quite secure in their areas. The Muhajirs were a minority in their areas in India, and were quite afraid of living there. This is why there is no nostalgia amongst Muhajirs, of going back to India. I have no idea why there is nostalgia amongst Indians of moving back (if that is what you are implying). If I were a Hindu, I would not want to move back to Pakistan, from India. Just like, being a Muslim, I would not want to move back to India.

The other factor is how prosperous Muhajirs are in Pakistan. Very few of them, themselves, realize this, since most Muhajirs do not really have exposure to Pakistan, outside Karachi. They have at most been to Lahore and Islamabad, and fail to see how poor the remaining areas are, including rural Punjab.

Altaf Hussain was able to sell this idea of, ``being exploited and suppressed`` by the Punjabi majority, to the Muhajirs. Along with the quota system put in place by Sindhis. I can buy the idea of rural Sindhis, Baluchis etc. being suppressed by Punjab. But certainly not Muhajirs. Its kind of hard to claim you are suppressed by someone, when you are twice as literate with three to four times the per-capita income as the, ``suppressor.`` Not to mention ten times the access to infrastructure and opportunities abroad.

This idea was bought to some extent by Muhajir voters. In addition, he sold the idea of a Punjabi military (Army). Not pointing out the fact, that Karachi has produced manifold times more Chiefs of Staff than any other city. The whole Pakistan Navy`s budget goes into Karachi. As does a major portion of the PAF budget.

On the whole, there really wasn`t much discrimination of Muhajirs, amongst Punjabis etc., barring the odd racist comment. Altaf Hussain turned a molehill into a mountain. However, once the MQM was established as a purely Muhajir-only ethnic party and violence started in Karachi, the discrimination started. Thus MQM actually created the discrimination.

One event has however, taken the wind out of Altaf`s sails. And that was the coup led by a Muhajir General, with the support of fellow Muhajir Generals. And that too against a purely Punjabi govt. All of a sudden, Muhajirs realized that there were Muhajir Generals in the Army (unlike what Altaf Bhai had told them). And that if they took out a corrupt and inefficient Punjabi govt., no one in Punjab would complain (unlike what Altaf Bhai had told them).

In addition, the Muhajir leadership center-stage was taken over by Musharraf. He is now Chief Muhajir in Pakistan. And not Altaf Bhai. He was sensible enough, however, to not portray himself as a Muhajir. He, infact, calls himself a Sindhi, since Karachi is in Sind. And encourages Muhajirs to integrate with Sind. This is the sensible way to go, in my opinion. And most sensible Muhajirs see Musharraf as a better option than Altaf Hussain.

Altaf Hussian is currently fighting the political battle of his life. He ruled Karachi unopposed, like a king for a decade or more. Now he is only one of the kings. His support has gone down from 95% to maybe 60% or so, amongst Muhajirs. And going down. Due to his immature and impatient ways, MQM has picked a fight with every group in Pakistan. The Army hates it. PPP hates it. PML hates it. MMA hates it. Sindhis hate it. Punjabis are indifferent to it, or dislike it. And most of all many fellow Muhajirs hate it.

The above is different from these other communities hating Muhajirs. They don`t hate Muhajirs. Infact, there is a lot of respect amongst other communities of the progressive, hardoworking and literate nature of the Muhajir community. These communities just don`t like MQM.

However, Altaf has created such a massive fear of other communities dominating Muhajirs, that if push were come to shove, even those Muhajirs who don`t like him, would side with the MQM.

In such a scenario, it makes sense for Altaf to make noises in India. He needs the press. In addition, the current govt. may have approved part of his speech, to move along the peace process, with India. The remaining part, he probably made to get a captive audience in India. I think he is playing his cards incorrectly, because now with Musharraf in the limelight also, many Muhajirs will side with Musharraf`s ideas ove Altaf`s. Realizing that all the criticism people have of Musharraf running Pakistan, is because he is in the Army. No one in Punjab or anywhere else has criticized him for being a Muhajir.

The Golden Rule: Any group or party or institution with lifetime Presidents will eventually decline......Altaf Bhai has greatly overstayed his usefulness to the Muhajir community.......The would be much better off, without him, if you ask me.......They have so many other capable individuals in their community to chose from; a community which is, hands down, the most progressive and enlightened in Pakistan.....

Manto #92
Yaar tum to naraaz ho gaye.. Multiple posting is not yours prerogative only. Once in a while you should suffer multiple posting from others too.
As spirit of Ramazan does not apply to me... (I drink them all.... hehe) here is a small story for you..

Firaq Goraphpuri once went to famous bazaar of Allahabad.. and saw that femme fatale named... (censored.. DM asked me not to mention that). moving with a chowkra named yaseer. And than said Firaq ..

NaaSamajh, naa samajh ki firaq teri firaq mein hai
Firaq tau uski firaq mein hai jo teri firaq mein hai ...

95
//...the staunchest protagonists of the Pakistan demand, ... chose to stay in India. Some left for Pakistan later but others who had gone to Pakistan returned to India. Why?...//

Good question. I have always wondered about that. I remember reading somewhere that almost 95% of muslims supported partition ... and yet when the time came - much less than that actually left for the new country created for them. Many jsut stayed back....... Even Jinnah, it seems, wanted to spent his last days in Bombay ...... [May be that`s why Nehru and others thought pakistan would not stay out and would eventually fall back into the ``mother`` country.]

This paradox is probably because of the opposing pulls from various aspects of their identity. The muslim in them urges them to be part of a ``pure`` country where they don`t have to live with kufrs and kowtow to kufr systems and beliefs .... while at the same time - the cultural/linguistic ties with the native land pulls them in the other direction.

THis is probably the same reason why some Indian muslims burst crackers when pakistan wins a cricket match and otherwise have soft corners for pakistan, yet these same folks will never dream to take off and go live there.

This dilemma is also visible in muslims living in other pluralistic countries - UK, for instance. I think - the built-in exclusivism in Islam basically makes many muslims unable to accept to a multi-pronged identity. The inherent intolerance towards other ideas and faiths makes them totally confused in pluralistic societal setup.

That`s the only explanation that makes sense.

Friend....

I think the way you have exposed yourself is enough ... I need not say more. Multiple posting will not add to your credibility. I too can speculate about your willingness to come to Veeresh`s defence... but I`ll let it go.. in the spirit of Ramzan.

-YLH

HP,

Thanks for the post .... will take that last bit very seriously :)


D-M...

;) Wouldn`t be pushing it ... if Veeresh was really that unfortunate... I am just giving him a taste of his own medicine ... ``misrepresentation``.. which he is infinitely better at ... I admit that much.

Don`t tell Veeresh

-YLH

DM,
Thanks. I appreciate your advise.. I didn`t see Veeresh insulting this monkey either. Anyway, I will take your advise and rein myself in (for few days only.. actually ..)

Ralph
Sorry I posted my notes before I read yours.. Never wanted to offend you.. BTW, did you see this monkey insulting existing girl chowkies? (and boys chowkies too... shameless pervert...) I will take your advise too and keep Manto`s phamily out of this...

Daily Times, Pakistan
Tuesday, November 04, 2003

Pakistan and South Asian Muslims
By Ishtiaq Ahmed

[The author is an associate professor of Political Science at
Stockholm University. He is the author of two books. His email address
is Ishtiaq.Ahmed@statsvet.su.se]

..... Apart from East Punjab where ethnic cleansing was almost complete, several of the staunchest protagonists of the Pakistan demand, among them Raja Sahib Mahmudabad, Hasrat Mohani, Begum Aizaz Rasul, Nawab Mohammad Ismail Khan, Raja of Pirpur (author of the Pirpur Report of 1937) and Mohammad Asadullah of Assam, chose to stay in India. Some left for Pakistan later but others who had gone to Pakistan returned to India. Why? I don`t know, but it is something on which more research needs to be done. On the whole it was primarily the upper middle-class and the salariat that immigrated to Pakistan. .....

Daily Times, Pakistan
Tuesday, November 04, 2003

Pakistan and South Asian Muslims
By Ishtiaq Ahmed
Ishtiaq.Ahmed@statsvet.su.se

[The author is an associate professor of Political Science at Stockholm University]

Among the various tragedies attendant upon the break-up of Pakistan in 1971, when East Pakistan became Bangladesh, is the unresolved status of some 250,000 Biharis stranded in Bangladeshi refugee camps. The Biharis, an Urdu-speaking people originally from the north-eastern Indian state of Bihar, migrated to East Pakistan when the subcontinent was prtitioned in 1947 between Hindu-majority India and Muslim-majority Pakistan.

Most of the Biharis sided with Pakistan during the 1971 Bengali uprising. That made them a pariah group in Bangladesh. Most of them want to immigrate to Pakistan and have refused to acquire Bangladeshi citizenship, claiming that they are Pakistanis and therefore entitled to set up hearth and home in Pakistan. Under international law, if the Biharis wish to remain Pakistanis there is no reason to refuse them permission to settle in Pakistan. Some Bihari families have been allowed to join their kin in Pakistan but the bulk has been denied this birthright.

Does this make sense? No. We have brought Pakistan almost to the point of veritable economic ruination by our uncompromising support for the Kashmiris` right of self-determination but we do not give most of our bona fide citizens their basic right to clean water, education and a meal because our priority is ‘defence spending` for an inevitable war with arch-enemy India.

But letting Biharis relocate in Pakistan would surely not cost dearly. They are only 250,000 altogether. Thanks to lack of education about family planning we are adding 250,000 babies every week if not every day to our burgeoning population, so why not let the Biharis who fought alongside our glorious army to save Pakistan, become Pakistanis in the proper sense? There is no reasonable answer. There cannot be one.

From what I have gathered listening to well-informed Pakistanis the implicit understanding is that since Bangladesh is a Muslim country the Biharis should seek Bangladeshi citizenship and try becoming a part of that nation –which would mean learning Bengali and assimilatinginto that culture. This is perfectly reasonable advice and the Biharis must consider it seriously.

But we don`t give a similar advice to the Kashmiri Muslims to seek a future within the Indian union. The reason ostensibly is that India is not a Muslim state and therefore the situation of Biharis is not comparable. Granted that is true, but what about Indian Muslims wanting to come to Pakistan? Well, they did not do that in 1947 and now it is too late. Moreover, they are 140 million and that is too many!

The only conclusion we can draw from such evasive gibberish is that the Muslims of South Asia do not have any automatic right to enter Pakistan as the Jews have to enter Israel under the so-called Law of Return. Is this consistent with the founding ideology of Pakistan, the two-nation theory? .....

..... Apart from East Punjab where ethnic cleansing was almost omplete, several of the staunchest protagonists of the Pakistan emand, among them Raja Sahib Mahmudabad, Hasrat Mohani, Begum Aizaz asul, Nawab Mohammad Ismail Khan, Raja of Pirpur (author of the Mirpur Report of 1937) and Mohammad Asadullah of Assam, chose to stay n India. Some left for Pakistan later but others who had gone to akistan returned to India. Why? I don`t know, but it is something on hich more research needs to be done. On the whole it was primarily he upper middle-class and the salariat that immigrated to Pakistan.

Pakistan came into being in those areas where Muslims were in a ajority. Such areas did not need as much protection from Hindu Raj as hose in which Muslims were in a minority. Most of them were converts rom Dalit and other depressed sections of society. They needed more elp than anyone else in coming to Pakistan, but they were advised to ecome good and loyal Indians. I am sure the Biharis stranded in angladesh also come from the poorest sections of society and herefore they too have no takers in Pakistan.

If Pakistan`s ruling elite can let a quarter million stranded ``Biharis`` (who consider themselves Pakistanis) to rot in refugee camps for decades, it cannot possibly care for Kashmiris who don`t even call themselves Pakistanis.

The ``Biharis`` will not come with any real estate - naturally Pakistan`s ruling elite doesn`t want to touch them even with a 10 ft pole.

Funds were set up in Pakistan, and even in Saudi Arabia, to finance the repatriation of these hapless ``Biharis``. The Rabita trust was one such fund. And General Pervez Musharraf was himself on its board. I don`t know how much fund was collected by the Rabita trust for the purpose over the years. But I was not very surprised to be told ruefully by a Mohajir-Pakistani acquaintance that in the post 9/11 era, the funds of that trust have been frozen on orders from the American government because they were being misused to promote terrorism.

And that, in a nutshell, spells out the real tragedy. Pakistan`s ruling elite has never lacked in funds to promote jihad in Afghanistan or Kashmir. But they had not a penny to spare for the repatriation of the hapless ``Biharis`` !!

HP Bhai ,
Let me clear some of the point you raised
you said ` Urdu Speakings in Pakistan have never supported a political party that derives support all over Pakistan.
They abandoned Muslim League right after the partition. `
Why should we support Muslim League a bunch of Feudrals ! again if you
go and ask anyone in KU even the Jamatis in KU Political Science Dept that
includes likes of Dr. Manzoor Ahmed , Dr. Moonis Ahmer they would say Pakistan
was made for the intrests of Feudrals - and for that reason there had never been real
land reforms and will never be if you ` son of soil ` parties stay in power - by reading your
words I smell that Punjabi Class who thinks Urdu Speakings are a bunch of RAW agents
and that Punjab is real Pakistan . You ( HP ) said , ` they ( Urdu Speakings ) don`t trust
any other party ` - yes why should we trust any other party everyone has a right to vote
and we vote for our intrests so that our ( Urdu Speaking ) intrests are protected -
HP , you seems to think MQM is a alien party - and urdu speaking people are aliens just
coz they dont trust PML or PPP ( both representatives of Chaudries and Waderas)
you said , ` His message is for the under class of Urdu speaking and they outnumber any other
group in some cities in Sindh.` - -- MQM`s real strong point is lower middle class which is
lower middle class - and middle class of Karachi and Hyderabad - that includes from
Grade 2 civil chaprasi to a grade 22 officer in Islamabad - a fact that is universally accepted you
said before that Urdu Speaking don`t vote for sons of soils PML or PPP well they vote for MQM -
You said the upper class is happy with Mushraff , well whatever class either
middle / lower / lower middle whatever class of atleast Karachi is happy with Mush coz MQM
is happy with Mush - Mush is Karachi`s son - and share our vision of liberal Pakistan .
About Balochi Card - Punjabis need to understand one thing that they dont own Pakistan
from the police wala to a damn sweeper is from Punjab specially in Karachi and Quetta
which is unacceptable and is leading towards a great conflict in Baluchistan specially. Sind and
Baluchistan has always worked togather and will do so because our real aim is to get the fair share
of money which we really earns ( on the basis of what we earn and not of population ) while Punjab is oppose
to it - fair distribution of water - End to Quota System in CSS - etc..
if going against PUNJAB`s intrests is against nation intrest we in Sind and
Baluchistan are against National Intrest - if giving jobs to the local people is
against National Intrest - we ( Sindis and Balochis ) are against National Intrest -
Punjabis need to understand one thing and let there be not doubt what so ever
Punjab is just a part of Pakistan and not Pakistan -
Mantolives - you should go on a major reality test -

Here`s another definition of Pakiness -Pakis are people who talk out of their rear ends and then keep shouting blame at other people for the strange noises that resulted -whether Altaf or his compatriots on chowk. Nehru was a wise wise man.

Yesterday Altaf Hussain was being interviewed on Paki TV from India. Imagine, a person, who is called a murderer here was having to urge the compere to understand that the antics of jihadis have put their country in a precarious and vulnerable position vis-a-vis the US and its war on terror - and the compere rejected the point totally and retorted by asking Altaf Hussain, do you deny Hindu fundamentalism is a problem in India, did you raise that issue or not? Huh? Jihadis put their country in danger with their anti-US agenda and the excuse is that Hindus have extremists too? Nehru was a wise wise man.

As far as talking to any Paki leader is concerned, if India talked to the butcher of Kargil, Musharraf, Fazlur Rehman the grandfather of Taliban(those people who whipped women and pulled people out of their homes and shot them dead for being of the wrong sect), or defaulter of billions BBhutto, or heavy mandate full Sharia Nawaz Sharif, then India can talk to anyone.

A government doesnot take strong positions on individuals or organisations of other countries unless there is some tangible benefit to the nation in taking a strong position. Civilised countries do have this habit of having mechanisms for a broad spectrum of people from other civilised countries to interact with each other, if murderers and criminals are the ones who ended up talking in this case, that`s life and what other choices are there?