Three Tales Of Sufi Wisdom

interesting article, however couple of questions:

1. in sufi thot a mursheed is expected to follow his peer. however if the peer`s teachings raise doubt or appear to be contrary to the teachings of islam then shouldn`t mursheed reject the peer`s teaching?

2. islam is a individual based faith in the sense that one is responsible for one`s action. isnt it possible that the sufi way of peer-mursheed runs contrary to the individual responsibilty inherent in islam (what i am trying to say is - on the day of judgement one cannot say well someone advised me so i did that)?

Now, this is something everyone needs to check out. It makes the walking on water story look like a childrens` book. Following is by the largest support group of the current govt. in the USA:

http://www.nytimes.com/2004/05/01/arts/01DINO.html?ex=1398830400&en=d6d0a71f95c6901a&ei=5007&partner=USERLAND

``Mr. Hovind, a former public school science teacher with his own ministry, Creation Science Evangelism, and a hectic lecture schedule, said he had opened Dinosaur Adventure Land to counter all the science centers and natural history museums that explain the evolution of life with Darwinian theory. There are dinosaur bone replicas, with accompanying explanations that God made dinosaurs on Day 6 of the creation as described in Genesis, 6,000 years ago. Among the products the park gift shop peddles are T-shirts with a small fish labeled ``Darwin`` getting gobbled by a bigger fish labeled ``Truth.``....

Creationist groups are also promoting creationist vacations, including dinosaur digs in South Dakota, fossil-collecting trips in Australia and New Zealand, and tours of the Grand Canyon (``raft the canyon and learn how Noah`s flood contributed to the formation``)......

A Kentucky creationist group called Answers in Genesis says it is building a 100,000-square-foot complex outside Cincinnati with a museum, classrooms, a planetarium and a special-effects theater where moviegoers can experience the flood and other events described in Genesis.

Ken Ham, the group`s chief executive, said marketing surveys suggested that the complex would draw not just home-schooling families and other creationists, but mainstream church groups and curiosity seekers......

At Dinosaur Adventure Land, visitors can make their own Grand Canyon replica with sand and read a sign deriding textbooks for teaching that the Colorado River formed the canyon over millions of years: ``This is clearly not possible. The top of the Grand Canyon is 4,000 feet higher than where the river enters the canyon! Rivers do not flow up hill!``

There is a movie depicting the creation, the flood and the fall of man, which fast-forwards from a lush Garden of Eden to a New York City traffic jam.``

hamidm #63: ``..... mrs hamidm says that she has often seen a halo over my butt when i sleep on my stomach ..... does that make me a saint?.... ``

Perphaps that halo, over the butt, maybe the gaseous digestive remains of the large turkey you had over Thanksgiving.......

ana #64: ``jesus walked on water. regardless of whether one can or not. he did. a matter of faith. and i believe it. :)``

Did Jesus really walk on water, or is that just a phrase and figure of speech? I thought Jesus brought the dead back to life.

Now, prophets walking on water, or going on outer space journeys and returning in two seconds, is where I draw the line. They were prophets, after all. If Jodie Foster, in the movie Contact, can go travel the whole galaxy, and return, within a second of Earth, using Einstein`s equations, then why not a prophet?

However, after prophets having done it, walking on water should be banned. If every third person starts walking on water, then it ceases to remain a big deal. The whole phrase, ``walking on water`` is based on the fact that hardly anyone has been able to do it.

Maybe the Sufis were just using the phrase metaphorically. One Sufi said, in Arabic, ``Hey, you know Mr. Junaid Baghdadi can walk on water,`` i.e. he is very good at what he does. Another disciple standing by heard it, and not being familiar with the metaphor, took the literal interpretation. And wrote a story.

For the record......Only Superman can walk (fly) on water. And Flash, because he runs so fast. But if he stops, he falls in. And Green Lantern, but only if the lantern is available. Spiderman can walk on water, but only if it is a small lake with trees on the side to swing off.

Jerry Fallwel can walk on water also. As can George Bush......

#58 dullabhatti

Two separate issues here.

Why did the four friends drown while their prayers were pure?
Allah is all knowing. It was Allah’s will the four would die while you would survive.
Allah’s will is ultimate

Few days ago in a plane crash few people survived while the rest perish. It was Allah’s will that few will survive while the rest would perish. If Allah wants He could have saved all or kill all. We cannot question His wisdom.

How come other human beings saved you?
Again. It was Allah’s will that you will be saved. And the people who saved you became wasila at that time. They were able to save you because of Allah’s grace and not because of their abilities or resources. Otherwise they could not have saved you. There is no harm in thanking them but first thank Allah. We all say Shukar Alhamdulillah all the time. Meaning “Thanks All Praise to Allah only.”

Asfand Siddiqui
Sacramento CA

..... ten dollars for an audience with god ........

..... mrs hamidm says that she has often seen a halo over my butt when i sleep on my stomach ..... does that make me a saint?.... and if so, where do i go to file my petition for beatification ?

........... trust me, i have been to more mazars and dargahs than most of these learned folks pontificating so earnestly about crap that they obviously know nothing about ......... in the us, and other civilized societies, these places are called bars where the bar-tenders are the pirs and the murshids .......... i just came back from having a spiritual conversation with jeff, the bartender at mcormick`s, and he assures me that all my wishes will be granted as long as i leave him a ten dollar tip ............... i love the man - miraculously, he makes cigars appear even though the place does not sell cigars !

jesus walked on water. regardless of whether one can or not. he did. a matter of faith. and i believe it. :)

The first two stories are utter nonsense. And I hope no one believes them. No one can walk on water, nor can they pull out dry books from a pond. Even Batman, Robin, Wonder Woman, and Spiderman cannot walk on water. Only Superman can. And he has to fly to be able to walk on water. And even he cannot pull out dry books from a wet pond. Though, he does have heat vision, which could be helpful in this area.

After reading all these obviously untrue stories, I am truly tempted to come up with the Islamic world`s first superhero: Able to jump tall buildings in a single bounce. Walk on water, etc.

The third story is correct in spirit. However, Islam does not recognize any hierarchy of religious order. There are no imams, nor is there a spiritual hierarchy. Everyone is equal in the eyes of God and has equal access to him. Anyone can be an imam and lead the prayers. One need not go to sufis and shrines and poles and what not.

Religious beaurecracy, something forbidden in Islam, has always been big business. A large group of people tend to benefit from it. Which is why they are bent upon instituting it inside a a religion, that by definition, got rid of it. This is the unnecessary beaurecracy that has been created by people who can benefit from it. Anyone who believes in Islam, has to by definition, accept his equality with all other human beings. And reject this beaurecratic order of self-appeasement.

People would be well-advised to refer to the Quran and to the lives of Muhammad and his colleagues as examples of what Islam should be and to understand its philosophy. Unfortunately too many have started considering Imams and Sufis and what not to be legitimate, ``go-betweens.``

Exactly opposite to the first story, the above is the essence of what is known in Islam as, ``Shirk.`` The Prophet himself, the Khalifas etc. never portrayed themselves as anything but ordinary humans. And none of the them practiced religion as their profession.

P.S. question for Naqshbandi: What sect did Rumi, Junaid Baghdadi and Abdul Qadir Jilani belong to? And is their a sectarian hierarchy, within the spiritual hierarchy that you described.

(sorry hit the wrong key)

interesting exchanges…here’s a jaahil’s take:)

Khuda aur maiN

the ultimate union
is the union of twos

self effacing love leads, attains
that unity of one with Him

in this search self is aided
by passion and compassion

a lifelong journey and pursuit
bringing the seeker and the sought
to the ultimate nirvana

***

compassion above refers to what my learned friends here call tawassul…(intermediaries)…and if they are content with it…good for them…to each according to……but in my mind there are two inherent flaws:

1: this thinking skirts dangerously close to an exclusivist and elitist approach that alienates and shuts out other seekers...and as a result…

2: excludes the possibilities of non-muslims from attaining this nirvana

the pursuit of Truth, driven by individual passion and compassion of the elements is the catalyst that leads to the ultimate manifestation of Love -- unity of twos—if and when achieved…

rgds,

t

#54

talha the ``earnestness`` is a given....thought there was no need to mention it per se

#56 afsand:

If I understand it correctly I have heard your explaination before from other people also. Ask help from Allah and he will send that help through a wasila - a person, miracle, animal, incident or whatever.

Suppose while boating in the Russian river, I am stranded in the middle of the river with another 4 friends, our boat fell apart and we are standing in water...about to be swept away by water and praying for Allah`s help for survival. Water is flowing faster and faster taking away more dirt from under our feet...we keep praying for help from Allah but in the last 30 mins all 4 of my friends who were praying along side me have been swept away by water and disappeared...I am the last one standing...then I see a boat going by few hundred meters away but they don`t see me....I start shouting loudly towards them and wave my hands so that they can see me and help me...after few minutes they saw me and turned their boat towards me and rescued me.

According to your explaination, the men in the boat are wasila..the real help came from Allah through them. Should I be thankful to these men? Should I show my gratitide to them for saving my live?

What about the 4 friends who drowned and disappeared while praying for help from Allah..believe me all of us were totally scared shit and our prayers were the most honest they can be....we couldn`t afford any ounce of dishonesty in the prayer for help because our freaking life was on line. Why Allah did not help them?

If we truly think every help in life is truly from Allah and fellow humans are only a wasila, will we be truly thankful to fellow humans for their help and love ever? after all they are only a means not real help.

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Instead of saying all paths lead to Truth, the seeker must be earnest! . I think it is more like, The seeker must be earnest, and his/her devotion to Truth will lead him/her to the path of Truth. :) Allah Knows Best!

Naqshbandi, a question for you, where did you read or hear this ``If my murid is not good, let him not worry--for I am good!`` ?

# 48, 49

One of the two - temporal and urstruly, is not a Muslim. Either that, or temporal`s Islam has severe identity problems. If your Islam faces such deep identity challenges, you should be very worried about inadvertently committing the unpardonable Arabic crime of shirk.

What good is Islam if it does not force you to believe that God had nothing left to say to mankind once he had done speaking to dear Muhammad?

It`s amazing how Islam is portrayed on Chowk as an arabic form of Buddhism or even Hinduism.

Salaam Talha,

Quran Surah 1 Verse 5
Iyaka Nabudu wa iyaka nastain

Translation of the above verse from Quran from three eminent scholars.

001.005
YUSUFALI: Thee do we worship, and Thine aid we seek.
PICKTHAL: Thee (alone) we worship; Thee (alone) we ask for help.
SHAKIR: Thee do we serve and Thee do we beseech for help.

In your previous post you did not explain the meaning of the above-mentioned verse. In the light of the above-mentioned verse please explain how a person can call any bode except Allah for help.

Once we call for help from Allah, then Allah can send help in any manner. It could be Shaikh Junaid or a fish helping to cross the river.

Also all the tafseers (commentaries on Quran) I have seen so far, Surah Fatihah (Chapter or Surah 1) from Quran is a supplication for a believer and the rest of the Quran is the answer from Allah to the believer in response to Surah Fatihah. In fact this Surah is made compulsory to be recited in all the Salah (Namaz, Prayers) that are Farz (compulsory) in Islam. It is hard for me to understand that some one reciting this Surah many times in Salah every day and yet end up calling someone else other then Allah for help?

Allah can make anybody or anything the “wasila” to help out the one asking for help. Asking help from the “wasila” directly constitute Shirk.

Asfand
Sacramento CA

#41

Malik99,

Very correct. Malik99 you just hit the nail on the head. Asif Just go to any tomb of any saint in Pakistan and try to figure out what’s going on over there. Dhammal, Qawalli, Asking supplications from the grave etc. By the way I have not seen people offering Namaz on any of the tombs.

Asif Just checkout what is going on at the tombs of saints. Here is an example seen .

The following verses are inscribed on the main door of the tomb of Khawaja Ajmeeri.

“Khawaja ke dar pe sijda rawa hai
Agar tum samjho to khawaja khuda hai”

Is this the sufiism you are referring to?

Asfand Siddiqui
Sacramento CA

Naqshbandi

The debate that we are having now has been done ad infinitum by the leaders of two schools of thought. It did not lead them anywhere and it will not lead us anywhere. So let us focus our discussion on those issues upon which we agree. These issues can be divided into two catagories.

1. Polemic issues, which have their basis in different interpretation of dogma, like that of Prophet (pbuh) being noor or khaaki. Since these issues have their basis in dogma therefore there is no end to this discussion and we will always disagree.

2. The second point is that we do agree on somethings and one of these things is the issue of Shirk. In your post you have said that it all depends upon Niyat (intention). I agree that it depends upon Niyat but it is also a fact that only God knows about someone`s Niyat. So when I see a person who is prostrating before a grave like that of Ali Hajveri (re) I have no clue with what Niyat that person is prostrating before that grave. Among the witnesses there are non-Muslims and then there are illiterate or semi-literate people who do not have knowledge or means to understand the fine difference between shirk and aqeedah like I and you have. What should they do. Over the time wouldn`t their practice turn into shirk as in actual life it has? Trust me, during my student years I have travelled through all sindh and went to almost every dargah and mizar of saints and I have seen illiterate sea of humanity indulging themselves into the kind of practices that could clench the heart of any God fearing Muslim. And that was all happening under the watchful eye of the Pirs who were running those joints. I am sorry to say that but I did not see one single dargah where such practices were not happening. It is a fact that many issueless people in Punjab when get their first child after long wait, name their child as PiraaN Ditta. A dead pir cannot have powers of God and the parents do not have knowledge of fine details of ``Tuwassul``. In their ignorance they indulge themsleves into shirk. We cannot close our eyes and let that happen to our brothers thinking that it is his Niyat. We have to tell him the difference between right and wrong otherwise it is our neck that will be in the vice on the Day of Judgment. It is also a fact that in this day and age Pir Sahib`s Pagri goes to people`s houses across sindh and Punjab. The phrase `Pagri aana` means that Pir Sahib has chosen a girl from that particular family for his harem or in some cases every girl must have ``blessing`` from Pir sahib on the night before her marriage. As painful as it is, but is is the truth. With our blind faith and attributing our blind trust where it shouldn`t we are causing the circumstances where people get hurt and their faith becomes corrupt. Why can`t we have teachers instead of dead and living Pirs who could impart us the knowledge about deen, fiqah, and ibadah. We must end the ambiguities that are fogged by our blind faith and make our faith transparent for the people inside and outside.