Indian Troop Reduction in Kashmir: Merely Symbolic?

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Jang

I don`t think an oil pipeline to India thru Pakistan is in strategic and business interest of Pakistan. It will be like feeding your baby`s milk to a snake. It makes more business and strategic sense to Pakistan to lay down a gas pipeline from Iran to China on the west bank of river sindh. I honestly belive that India`s economy is just a house of cards. If you want to understand Indian economics of today you must understand the economy of Pakistan of 80s first. India is today at where Pakistan was 20 years ago. China on the other hand is going to be an economic powerhouse no matter what since it has dug itself into world economics at grass root level. The only country that is most likely to survive the global economic recession of coming two decades will be China and China alone. The aftermath of this recession will be an emergence of an economic block at least in this region which will be spearheaded by China. It is in best interest of Pakistan to estanblish an open border, levy free trade relations with China. As the global situation is emerging lets admit that Arabs are absolutely totally fucked for good. In next 10 to 15 years their cities are going to look like American downtowns with crack houses, flop houses, and boarded up abandoned shopping malls. Pakistan will be more and more dependent on Iran`s energy resources then and logistically it makes absolute sense to buy Iranian oil for itself. It will be cheaper than from any other country in the world because of the logistics and the Iranian infrastructure. For India, they would be compelled to buy oil from sea route. That is surely going to give a comparative advantage to pakistani products over Indian ones.

Manto
//..Do you know who Maqbool Butt was ?..//

Nope - who was this guy?

Manto

OK - a quick google search gives this on Mr Maqbool Butt:

He was ``the first authentic martyr of the Kashmiri independence movement``. He died in Tihar Jail. He wanted a unified independent kashmir, a founder of JKLF. From the first glance - he doesn`t seem to a Jihadi. It isn`t clear how many he killed (if at all) during his stint as a ``freedom-fighter``.

SO what`s your point?

#35

Dear Paki`s

Do you know who Maulana Masood Azhar is?

Do you think he is a freedom fighter?

#30 by Urstruly

this is why i like urs. he is crystal clear.. he speicifies kashmiri MUSLIMS (including the shias of kargill) for self-determination.

overall the indians are becoming more and more thick-skinned about the sepratist movements, and being banias that they are, calculate costs of separatism in bussiness deals.

e.g. tour operators may have a 10% markup built-in for delays due to a bum on the highway etc.

Veeresh,

Are you still trying to convince people of your sincerity. Even before you stepped into Pakistan you had your lens set on what you want to see and what you will want to ignore..

Now don`t give us emotional drivel and nonsense.... you know how truthful you really were... and as for the second part of your post relating to Indians... much more so than Pakistanis. Please do visit Farzana Versey`s ilog for today.

Dear Indians...

Do you know who Maqbool Butt was ?

Do you think he was a jehadi?

rahulmal #29
Plenty of reasons:

1. Because the Pakistani ruling class does not need peace with India to do very well for itself. Demanding payoffs from India to stop fighting is like asking for a bonus over and above that - why will they give it up when they are not the ones doing the fighting.

2. Cultural/ideological conditioning that sees compromise as defeat. Refer #33.

3. Because the control over all of J&K and its rivers has been long touted as the key minimum requirement for viability of the Pakistani state and the ruling class has been willing to do any amount of harm to their state(including becoming beholden to the highest Arab bidder) to make it viable. Participating in the devastation of a fellow Muslim country Afghanistan is still touted as justifiable for this purpose. What is so different now that they will think and act differently wrt J&K ?

4. The Pakistani Army has deposed civilian Prime Ministers on more than one occasion to protect their external strategic/foreign policies wrt India and Afghanistan. In this honeymoon period of receiving arms, aid and political support from the US and with an Army guy firmly in power, why would the Army finally compromise on its longstanding objectives?

5. and so on.

#30 by Urstruly
//...Any proposal that does not guarantee the right of life to Kashmiri Muslims and their families ...//

As soon as you pakis stop jihad, hinuds will guarantee ``the right of life`` to your Kashmiri ``brethren``. So it`s upto you pakis, really. You don`t want to build your house on kashmiri corpses? Very good .... Neither do the hinuds. So all you pakis have to do is stop the jihad against hinuds. it`s that simple.

As far as ``right of self-determination`` is concerned - sorry, you are out of luck there. And anycase - we don`t think you pakis should even be talking about such stuff. Because, you know, you guys are being ruled by Mushy, the tinpot dictator. So first thing first - get that ``right of self-determination`` for yourselves first and then you talk. May be somebody will listen then.

I am sure that`s unacceptable to you. Well.... frankly, we don`t give a damn!! :))

//...Now tell me why is this so difficult?...//

One Word - Jihad. As long as pakis indulge in jihad, no peace is possible.

Rahulmal,
In your plan there is nothing in Pakistan`s baskter in ``will try/guarantee/accept/extend/not object to`` column. Doesn`t it look like a very one sided plan. It is doomed from the start.

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Rahulmal

Any proposal that does not guarantee the right of life to Kashmiri Muslims and their families and does not give them their basic human right of self-determination is unacceptable to us. It is an insult. Sorry, but we cannot build our house on the corpses of our brethren.

Guys,

I have a plan for tension reduction between our two countries, please read on:

1) India will accept the proposal of gas pipeline from Iran through Pakistan and pay relevant compensation (500 million $ is the last I heard).
2) India will also try to get all other energy routes to come via Pakistan so that they get the benefits.
3) India will guarantee territorial integrity of Pakistan.
4) India will not object to Pakistan`s possession of Nukes.
5) India will extend all possible help in developing institutes of higher learning like IIT, IIM etc. in Pakistan
6) Both countries will facilitate cultural exchanges and relax VISA regimes.
7) A joint task force will be established to fight the assortment of terrorists in both countries - Maoists, Jihadis, AnandMargis etc.
8) International border will be redrawn in J & K with minor adjustments on both sides. The adjustments would be made in a way that makes security of one’s territory more viable (no chicken neck please).

Advantage to both countries - have been discussed N number of times.

Now tell me why is this so difficult?