Indian Troop Reduction in Kashmir: Merely Symbolic?

one thing i strongly feel to be completely bogus is that there is large level of kinship betweek the POK mirpuris and kashmir valley folks. i mean, they dont even speak the same language or eat the fancy food. OTOH hindus of the valley have more cutural kinship, roti commerce (but not the beti). i can understand if jammu folks feel kinship, but there is hardly much demand for unification of jammu (lower pir-panjal etc) with mujaffarnagar. the only reason valley is sought after is because JKLF was able to cause strife there.. panjabi speaking mirpuris wont be able to converse with the kngri-wallahs. ergo nothing wrong with the LOC.

my bet: srinagar-m`farpur bus will have less than 2% traffic of lahore-wagah if things are opened up completely.

LOC plus something!!!

LOC or nothing!!!

So what do you want? decide.

Mush needs the solution badly because Jehadis are now bleeding Pakistan rathar than India!
Now is the time for India to bargain from the position of strength !!

Vareesh, just like Nazar Hayat Khan commented, ``you have the knack to liven Chowk``, but I will not be drawn.
Cheerios

And before urstruly/tahmed32/salim/ijaz specifically respond, let me advise you that my interact/23 to Ijaz is like the last or second-last check before a possible checkmate . . . maybe I am seeking the obvious responses so think carefully and respond?

Hi Ijaz/21 - what flak, what fun, and at whose expense?

The truth is the truth, and some immature comments are par for the course. Goes with the turf.

Your country is also my country, Ijaz. Sure, I am more than glad/lucky/ever grateful that my parents took a considered decision to move on to India from Pakistan for a fresh start with nothing but the clothes on their backs.

But that doesn`t mean I can not have an opinion based on observations?

After all, what did some, few, Pakistani people find objectionable? I think they just felt their egos were hurt because somebody ``like them`` from across the border gave them the hard facts.

More importantly, do you find Indians jumping up and down and getting upset when somebody, anybody, points out the equally damning warts in India?

Thank you.

Ralph,
I thought we agree more than we disagree. My contention is that Kashir is an issue from the social spectrum and can only be resolved on the social spectrum. Violence, Conflict as instrument of policy and political rheoteric to meet ends of populism cannot do it.You appeared to miss a point, just like I missed a line.

Secondly, I abhor rahter than support the politics of violence as has prevailed in the past 12 years in IHK. It has and will continue to damage Pakistan`s long term political objectives. I dont think we disagree here.

Now coming to the divides. Just a few months ago both India and Pakistan lived on the extremes of political divide coloured by feels of mutual hate, suspicion and betrayels. These feeling have not changed much except that there has been thawing through some initiatives on part of the governments but more through the peoples to peoples contact. Now this feel good syndrome is not a solution to the issues itself, but rather a way to it. As far as perception on KASHMIR ON BOTH SIDES OF THE DIVIDE IS CONCERNED, I feel that they have not changed much. What people on both sides have come to realise is the lost economic opportunities. If there was no conflict within South Asia, both India nad Pakistan would have been on higher economic pedestals. It is this cost benefit equation that has now started driving people closer and that is why I unlike you, choose to use the word SOCIO ECONOMIC and not SOCIO POLITICAL.

I also feel that your two assumptions are not dinstinct but common to both India and Pakistan.

Your last paragraph is totally off course.

Vareesh, welcome back. you indeed are a brave man after all the flak at you and the fun at you cost on chowk.
I liked your series of articles and the candour you displayed in them. As an indian, you are entiltled to your own views and sentiments which no worthy individual of name can avoid. Let me admit that within the travelougue, I did find lots of admiration for my country, perhaps much more than the pun. We would love you to keep writing.

Cheerios

From the article:

[Indian Prime Minister Manmohan Singh on Nov. 11 called for a reduction in Indian forces in Jammu and Kashmir this winter as the first troop reduction since the 1999 Kargil attack. ... There are approximately 200,000 Indian troops currently operating in the region, much to Pakistan`s and the Kashmiri separatists` disapproval.]

Sorry India doesn`t meet with the approval of Pakistan or the Kashmiri separatists. Cho chorreee.

What the media often neglects to report about J&K . . .

# tourism is up and up and UP. Srinagar has seen daily flights go up by 300% in terms of seat capacity this winter as compared to summer ``season``, and charters are on, too. If there is further need for validation, then do check out how Israeli tourists are flocking to Srinagar and beyond, in safety.

# fruit production and movement is reaching levels unheard of anytime in the past. As of now the canning and preservation industries are still in the plains, but read next . . .

# a milk co-operative movement has evolved in J&K on the Gujarat/Anand/Amul lines (yes, the same Gujarat which is used to beat us on the head with) and assisted by Gujaratis. This year, 2004, J&K has not just beaten the National Average in milk production but is also likely to come first on an all-India basis. Years of neglect has ensured that milk from J&K is premium chemical free, as organic as it gets. This has moved on to value added products, like butter, ice-creams, ghee . . . and they plan to take on fruit products next.

# the automobile companies are reporting enhanced sales in J&K again, especially for commercial vehicles.

Yes, the armed forces numbers are being reduced in J&K. Why not?

Sure its symbolic (one hopes). Another kargill is unlikely in near future with Lahore being developed by Lokhandwala and Raheja and the war on terror in full swing.

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Expecting rational constructive behaviour from the Pakistani Army is like expecting a rabid dog to sit and stay. Hopefully the troop withdrawal idea is not based on assumptions about such rational behaviour. If it is based on such assumptions, then expect an Indo-Pak war in the near future.

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# 12

``No Negotiation whatsover, with anybody``

About internally or externally inspired separatism. There is always some flexibility about internal arrangements, within the bounds of reason. This has happened with the establishment of linguistic states, and in the case of North Eastern states.

I am intrigued by the opposite conclusions Ijaz_gul and I reach, reading the same historical data. There seem to be two key sources of our differences.

One, we view the dominant parties implicated in the dispute on both sides differently.

Ijaz_gul sees the main Indian and the Pakistani disputants on Kashmir as being fairly similar in nature and behavior. I think that whatever may have been the case in 1947, the two sides have evolved into very different ideological entities. The confrontation over Kashmir has become focused between an ideologically unified Pakistani military and an ideologically unified Indian populace.

I make two assumptions. (1) Pakistani people and the Indian military are secondary influenes in ultimately settling the dispute. (2) Mulayam Singh Yadav, Sonia Gandhi, Karunanidhi, and Vajpayee speaking much the same language on Kashmir indicates a discernible unity of opinion across India.

Two, we differ in our views of the right course of action, or what `should` be done now. Ijaz regrets departures from the past because he sees for his country an identity of vested interests between Pakistan`s primary (the military) and secondary (the people) disputants to the Kashmir conflict. Naturally, I disagree. I think that except in rare cases, militaries represent their own interests, not the general interests of the people they are professionally sworn to defend.

this is a first: a common interact for the following three boards
Women, Conflict and Conflict Prevention by Naveen Qayyum
Madrassahs and Schools by Xoheb Sheikh
Indian Troop Reduction in Kashmir: Merely Symbolic? by Abdul Naeem

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…the common strand that runs through these three articles on the main page is the inability of the occupying army to deal with the looming crisis in Pakistan…ok let’s dispense with the white-wash…democracy and all that blah blah…and about how the power is transferred to the people..more blah blah…

…(came across these figures about four years ago from the then sec. education…a laeeq khan...am relying on memory and am searching for more current numbers)

…every year more than three million young Pakistanis are added to the school going age…between the stretched educational resources of the GoP (digression: the defense related expenses eat up between 48- 66+ % of the budget –depending on how you add up)…here is the low down:

number of new school age children......…….3,000,000
based on an average of 30 children
per class—number of additionalclass
rooms required.......................................…..100,000
new class rooms provided by govt............….10,000
new class rooms provided by madrasah...…....6,000
new class rooms provided by pvt groups.....….3,000

yearly class rooms shortfall.......................….81,000

...that is 2,430,000 plus children that are added every year to the numbers of uneducated…and this folly is compounded every year…millions of hopeless soul scurrying for petty existence and fodder for physical and mental slavery…is there any wonder the literacy rate is going down…(so much for Madrassahs and Schools …not to mention law and order…infra structure development…women issues, gender inequality, honor killing…heck, just about everything except nuclear aresenal and land grab by the faujis?

… am sure there are saner minds in the fauj that have figured this out have come to realize that the pie is shrinking and the occupying army’s share cannot be increased beyond a certain point…remember ..no Pakistan, no pakistan army…perhaps that is the driving force behind the fauji’s push for a solution to the Kashmir crisis (Indian Troop Reduction in Kashmir: Merely Symbolic? )…so that the meager budgetary resources can be allocated to developmental fields…a bare minimum level of economic prosperity is introduced to help the pie expand…and with a bigger pie the percentage yield for them will become bigger too…

rgds,

t