Indian Troop Reduction in Kashmir: Merely Symbolic?

re:#117 by HP
If non-Kashmiris on this forum can pretend they can understand the Kashmir problem, why can`t i talk about Sindh.
Sindh holds a special place for Indians, historically, politically and even mythologically. Sindhis in India are prosperous. I had a Sindhi (hindu) friend in medical school in India. Years later, one of my cousins (an Engineer) married a Sindhi guy and both migrated to Australia.
While i can`t pretend i know the Sindhi situation in Pak well, it is clear that there is a simmering problem and the Paki elite is either unaware or unwilling to confront the problem.
Sridhar

Strong spirit...

Again apples and oranges....

Gujurat is part and parcel of India... Kashmir however was subject to the UN Resolutions... now we can talk about moving beyond the plebiscite solution no doubt.... but the basic premise remains.... Kashmir has not yet legally become part of India... or Pakistan for that matter. Kashmir`s issue has nothing to do with being Pakistani... it is the question of the right of self determination of an entire people...

Sadly some of our friends don`t view the bigger picture.... remember every person lives 2 lifetimes... his/her own.... and his/her children`s.. Poland was divided amongst the great powers of Europe in the late 18th century.... by 1919... it was a state again... 100 years, 200 years... even 500 years are no time at all in the life of a nation....


Arjunm...

Quite the contrary.... my support of Kashmiris and their freedom movement has nothing to do with the official pakistani dogma on the matter.

-YLH

#119 by arjun_m

So that`s what it has boiled down to - Shia Yasser trying hard to fit into the Sunni dominated pakistan`s elite, by raising rhetoric on Kashmir and spewing venom on Indians - the not-so-human Indians who are killing jihadis with impunity without any remorse.

Oh, well.

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To the Pakistanis on this board..esp Urstruly...here`s a question...a couple, actually.

If all you`re interested in is letting the Kashmiris determine their future,(that claim seems to be aired loudly) what gives you the right to do so? Is it that the Kashmiris are your co-religionists? If so, how do we know that it`ll stop there? Say we were to give up Kashmir - would pakistan become our best friend from that moment? Or...would the next mission in your country`s life be the establishment of a separate state for Gujarati muslims...or the restoration of the Nizam`s state...or a second partition of India as some of your brethren are still languishing in India?

That brings me to another thought...if you`re so concerned about the Kashmiris because they`re muslims, why don`t you ever raise your voices against the state of which you were a client before you became one of the US? I mean China, of course. I`m sure you know of the Uygur population in Xinjiang (next to kashmir!), and how the Chinese are flooding the province with Han settlers, so that the Uygurs are rapidly being reduced to a minority, much as the Tibetans already have been. So why are there no jihads to protect your Uygur brethren?

Harish 118

Big words from some one whose lack of reason and logic has been totally exposed. You made a total fool out of yourself earlier and now you are talking of reason? You still haven`t answered any of my posts, except with these petty insults as is your `wont`...

Unless you do plan on coming up with half decent explanation for your utter stupidity... I suggest you refrain from using the word ``reason``... it doesn`t suit you.

As one Indian says so often... some things are just not done...

#108 by Layman

[Mantolives #96:
Please try to be objective in your discussions (this goes for several Indian posters too). The photo posted by Urstruly is that of two militants who fought with the army less than a mile of the place where PM Manmohan Singh was to make his speech. This actually delayed his address by several hours. What is inhuman about it? What would you have wanted the army to do in this situation?]

It is futile to expect Mantolives to come up with a rational answer. Reason is just not his forte.

#109 rsridhar
``re: Sindh`s right to self-determination ``

Please don`t even go there. You don`t understand Sindhi or Baluchi issues at all. You will need to do a whole lot more research to get to the gist of those issues.
Altaf Hussian does not represent Sindhis. He does not even understand Sindhi language correctly.
People who rely on a cab driver`s political knowledge to make judgment about Baluch nationalist movements are basically nutcases.
If you really are interested in learning about Sindhi nationalist movement, do some more research on the net. Net won’t give you all the answers but you may get some idea about what the real issues are.
Altaf Hussian and Advani won’t help you much there.

#109 by rsridhar

Watch Mantolives get high on his rhetoric now.

What will be Kashmir, the Paradise on Earth`s plight if it ever decides to join Pakistan?

Ireland ‘best place to live’, Pakistan worst

Excerpt:

``The top five for The Economist’s pick, following Ireland, are Switzerland, Norway, Luxembourg, Sweden and Australia. Down at the bottom, listed here from worst to not-as-awful among the 111 states, were Zimbabwe, Haiti, Nigeria, Russia and Pakistan.``

The best solution to stopping human rights violations by Indian armed forces is for other armed groups to stop operating there. Until the jihadis and militants put down arms, the Indian armed forces will not leave. As for settlement - India will not be breaking off any more Muslim states as per Manmohan Singh PM. Justice has to be pursued within the Indian state`s framework - with soft borders meaning easy movement/commerce with Kashmiris in Pakistan an option increasingly advocated by India.

However, all this might mitigate the Kashmiris` plight but not Pakistan`s plight for which TNT means worrying about Muslims abroad while shafting Muslims at home, nor the Pakistani Army`s nor jihadis` plight who are both looking for puppet nizam-e-mustafa in Kashmir.

Never understood why a people who claim to prefer secularism or moderation for their own country so vehemently force Jamaat-e-Islami or JUI-controlled Islamic rule on other people whether Afghans or Kashmiris.

Yasser/110, the fact that I have been ignoring all your personal barbs does not mean that I agree with all you say. So, please don`t worry about the mask on my face, OK?

At the same time, I do feel that a civil request from me needs to be countered by something more than jingoism and jumping up and down.

So, for the rest of all of us at chowk, Indians and Pakistanis, please do try to clear up the air on a simple question, without rhetoric and without past present future Jinnah Nehru UN Lahore Delhi divorce hijab cleavages babies etcetc:-

Can you, as a Pakistani civilian, simply get into a bus at Rawalpindi/Islamabad and head into POK/Azad Kashmir, upto any point on the LOC, with as much ease and legitimacy as I as an Indian civilian can from Delhi into J&K and any point on the LOC, from where we can wave at each other?

I am saying that the answer for you is ``NO``.

If you however choose to disagree, then please name the location and the date and I shall be present at the opposite side of the LOC.

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#85

Two more jihad junkies bite the dust....Good Job RR, IA. Thank you Urstruly for that photograph. Keep them coming.....

It gives me almost as much pleasure to hear Manto squeal like a stuck pig when he is trapped in his own net :-)

re:#86 by Mantolives
``Now if in the future people in some region of Pakistan do put up the demand for independence... and they constitute a reasonable majority of that region, I for one would support their democratic right to form a state of their own.``
Ha, ha!
That is never going to happen in a military dictatorship, is it?
One needs to find a practical solution.
Is it practical to think of a self-determination for Kashmiris when India (the main and the bigger player in the dispute) is unwilling? No it is not.
Do Pakistanis have any moral authority to demand such self-determination for the Kashmiris when they themselves live under a military dictatorship and do not enjoy some basic rights enjoyed by Kashmrirs in India? No, they do not.
Chew on this for the time being.
Sridhar

#90 by Mantolives on November 18, 2004 9:47am PT
``PS: The Indians jumping up and down about Sindh Baluchistan NWFP etc....
Please produce the UN Security council resolutions about these disputed territories.... ``

Manto my friend, show me the UN Security Council regulations on East Pakistan...