Indian Troop Reduction in Kashmir: Merely Symbolic?

#70 by arjun_m on November 17, 2004 1:03pm PT
``maybe a shia Pakistani should have the same chance of becoming the president of Pakistan as a an indian muslims does of being the president of India..``

To improve your general knowledge, shias have held various top level positions in Pakistan, including president, prime minister, chief of armed forces, key ministries and more. Some of the most prominent political families in Pakistan are also shia families. May I suggest that you do a little research before making irresponsible statements?

How many troops are there in Kashmir? I found an amazing article in Jang
http://jang.com.pk/thenews/nov2004-daily/18-11-2004/oped/editorial.htm#1

``There are about a million Indian troops in Occupied Kashmir. According to Pakistani sources there are about seven to eight lakhs Indian forces in Occupied Kashmir, while the Indians put it at three to four lakhs.``
If India says it has 3-4 lakhs and Pakistan says India has 7-8 lakhs troops in J&K, how can the paper claim there are a million Indian troops in Kashmir? Did they add the two 3+7=10 and come up with a million??? Is this an exception or is it typical Puki thinking?

Mantolives: ``Kashmir is for Kashmiris etc``
Would you agree that Sindh is for Sindhis and Balochistan is for Balochis? You should not set foot in Karachi then. Every part of India belongs to all Indians.

re:#61 by Mantolives
This article is no different from standard bull spurned out by Paki (and some hardline Kashmiri) journalists. Nothing new here. Typically, these articles start by narrating (for the umpteeth time) the history of Kashmir (which most of us can narrate in sleep) and devote the last para or two in the so called solution to the problem.
``Most important of these was the U.N. Resolution of 1949 which called for the holding of a plebiscite, under U.N. supervision, to elicit the wishes of the people of Kashmir.``
The resolution also calls for withdrawal of Pakis from the territory they occupired before Plebescite can be implemented.

``India has three options: it may continue to suppress the opposition which would entail endless brutalisation of Kashmir and of the Indian polity. Secondly, it may blame Pakistan and seek redress through war. But war did not resolve the problem before, and is unlikely to do so now. Finally, it may recognise that the problem is political and its solution can only be political which implies an absence of war, an end to repression, and an admission of Kashmiri right to self-determination.``
India has only one option: to kick the Jehadi butt. If that is a Kashmiri butt, so be it. Jehandists, murderers can`t be tolerated by any State. Look at the extent Israeli PM went to quell dissent.
Self-determination is not an option for Kashmiris. As has already been said many times, a 2/3rd majorityis needed in Indian Parliament to allow any territorry to secede, an impossibility even in Nehru`s time.
Kashmiris will slowly learn that India is the lesser of the 2 evils and compared to Pakistan, is in a different league. Kashmiris have their best chance with India. They can`t survive as an independent entity because the moment India steps out, Pak and other forces will step in.

``Over the last two years, a coalition of right-wing groupings have brought their anti-Muslim campaign to fevered pitch; thousands of persons have been killed in Hindu-Muslim riots, villages have been burned, and towns destroyed.``
Yes, all this happened in Gujarat. That is why, BJP has been shown the door and a secular govt elected to office. How is this connected with Kashmir problem. In Pakistan, the Army is killing its own people in Waziristan. Recently, MQM leader has gone on record saying Pakistan`s creation was a fallacy. Let Pakis sort out their mess. India will never part with an inch of Kashmir. That is for sure.
Sridhar

#30 by Urstruly

[Any proposal that does not guarantee the right of life to Kashmiri Muslims and their families and does not give them their basic human right of self-determination is unacceptable to us.]

How noble!! If it is self-determination for Kashmiris that you are clamoring for, can you please tell us cunning banias, why is that every candidate standing for local elections in ``Azad`` Kashmir forced to sign an undertaking promising whole-hearted support for Kashmir`s accession to Pakistan? JKLF chief Amanullah Khan was not allowed to contest because he refused to sign this undertaking.

[It is an insult. Sorry, but we cannot build our house on the corpses of our brethren.]

You seem to be taking Pakistan`s role in the Kashmir dispute too seriously my friend. Except for the low-level insurgency that is being fomented by Pakis across the LoC, there is nothing much to it. With the LoC fence, sophisticated ground sensors, and hand-held thermal imagers (Israeli technology...if that can cause you discomfort) that can spot terrorists from 6 miles away, even that leverage seems to be waning.

And I`m sure you must have read Manmohan Singh`s statement at a press conference in Srinagar. He said any further division of J&K is simply unacceptable. About time for Pakis to bury any dreams of taking over Kashmir.

#64 by Mantolives

[Kashmir is for all Kashmiris... regardless of religion, caste, creed, gender or sect.... and all of them should be part of the plebiscite... and the plebiscite should have the option of Independence... from both Pakistanis like Musharraf... and masters of double speak like you.]

Wow! What noble intentions. Worth considering. But before that, can you please tell us why every candidate standing for local elections in ``Azad`` Kashmir required to sign an undertaking promising full support to Kashmir`s accession to Pakistan? Amanullah Khan, the then JKLF chief was not allowed to contest AJK`s local elections some years ago because he refused to sign this undertaking.

As is your wont, you will hide behind some stale rhetoric and avoid answering this question. Not that I`m expecting you to come up with some informed answers really. But at least this will expose you for what you are.

Bhaaya DalitRam ji,
Apko koi kaam nahin hai jo irrelevant articles cut-n-paste karte ho? Is this article related to troop reduction in Kashmir?

Look Indians are making progress in technology! How could paki compare?
Reader please pay attention. these are important discoveries. Only in India!

Story location: http://www.wired.com/news/culture/0,1284,65717,00.html
02:00 AM Nov. 16, 2004 PT

MUMBAI, India -- In most Indian towns, foreigners are perplexed by the sight of listless cows walking aimlessly in the middle of the road. Passing locals touch the animal`s hind reverently and send a quiet prayer. But the supreme sacred status of the cow has not just given it the license to jaywalk, which every Indian has anyway. The cow may also be the most researched animal in India.
Fundamentalist Hindu organizations like the Rashtriya Swayamsevak Sangh, or RSS, and the Vishva Hindu Parishad, or VHP, which have been accused in Indian courts of inciting riots, murder and destruction of mosques and churches, are probing deep into their beloved cow to claim that it is a very special animal.

Bhanwarlal Kothari, a senior member of the RSS, said, ``Our tests have shown that distemper made out of cow dung and spread over walls and roofs can block nuclear radiation.`` According to Kothari, mainstream physics researchers conducted the tests in the north Indian town of Jaipur and even asked India`s premier nuclear research agency, the Bhabha Atomic Research Centre, to test their claims and endorse the finding. Sailen Ghosh, a senior scientist at BARC, said he was not aware of any such request.
``It`s ridiculous and laughable,`` said M.V. Ramana, a Bangalore-based nuclear scientist, about the RSS claim. ``There are different kinds of nuclear radiation. Alpha and beta radiation can be blocked by very thick walls. It would take considerable thickness for a concrete wall to block gamma radiation. I cannot imagine how a coating of cow dung in whatever form can block nuclear radiation. It does not appear to be a scientific case.``
The RSS and VHP say they are funded by donations from fellow Indians, including many of those settled in America and Britain. Exactly how much the organizations muster every year is not revealed in the public domain.

In Nagpur, a town in the province of Maharashtra, VHP volunteer Sunil Mansinghka runs Go-vigyan Anusandhan Kendra, an outfit ``devoted to R&D on the role of cows.`` At four every morning, VHP workers stand with bottles beside their cows, waiting for them to urinate voluntarily so that the workers can collect the waste for future research.
In the past eight years, Mansinghka, who is well-informed but not a qualified researcher, has supervised donations worth $500,000 for research on the curative properties of cow urine and dung. Doctors from both the mainstream and the ancient Indian science of Ayurveda are working on several projects that study the benefits of cow waste. ``We believe that cows` urine can cure cancer, renal failure, arthritis and a lot of other ailments,`` Mansinghka said. ``We are working hard to test and prove these claims.``
He summoned one of his researchers, an Ayurvedic physician named Bharat Chouragade, to explain the benefits of cow urine. ``I don`t think cows` urine can cure cancer,`` Chouragade said. ``What it can do is enhance the effects of the modern cures for cancer.`` That disappointed Mansinghka, who later said of his Ayurvedic physician, ``some people are misled by too much learning.``
Anil Gupta, an academic and activist who promotes rural innovation, is encouraged by research on cow urine. ``Yes, it is true that not just cows` waste but the excretions of several animals have some benefits for humans,`` he said. ``The difference is, psychologically, Indians are less repulsed by cows` waste.``
Mansinghka bottles and markets distilled cow urine. From many such crude labs across the country come pest repellents, soaps, tablets and shampoos made out of cow urine and dung. ``Some of my friends have (debated) ways to use cow dung to wrap surgically removed human body parts and bury them in the ground,`` he said. ``That will save hospitals the expensive process of incinerating such organs.`` Mansinghka also spoke with great adoration about ``the stunning work of professor Madan Mohan Bajaj, who has clearly proved how important cows are.``

Professor Bajaj is from the Delhi University`s department of physics and astrophysics. He has spent 14 years investigating the effects of animal slaughter on earthquakes, air crashes and other disasters. ``The killing of animals causes natural and manmade disasters,`` Bajaj said. ``But, since the cow is so useful to human beings, its slaughter causes exceptional seismic activity. The cries of the animals go down to the earth through Einsteinian pain waves.``
Sandip Trivedi, a highly regarded string theorist with the Tata Institute of Fundamental Research, said he has never heard of Einsteinian pain waves. ``It doesn`t exist,`` he said with a chuckle.
Even though established science has not endorsed the many claims of cows` fans, they continue unmindful. ``In the cow there is panacea,`` VHP`s Mansinghka said. ``Just overzealousness,`` Trivedi said.

The cows were unavailable for comment.

plebiscite sounds like a fungus or yeast to indians...like parasite. they immediately attempt drastic toxic treatment.