Thanksgiving III

It is a real good. This is melanchalous, full of sorrows in the words. What is the matter? Can you share them with me. I am also little sorrowful.

you can mail your comments thru kasi_saro@yahoo.com or kasi_vis@hotmail.com

I have also some articles under unplugged fiction under name kasi and sarovis

Take care, best of luck kasi

plats8 #73
``Could you please explain to me where I have legitimized abuse here ?``

By your (as I see it) disproportionate response to just one post of mine written about dozens and dozens of abusive dishonest posts. Because, yes I have failed to understand your point.

``By the way, I don`t think such labels are all that calculated - they`re just not that sophisticated, abuse-wise. For a certain set of people, labelling is a natural reaction when they fail to debate on substantive issues. If one has enough energy or time, it is also rather easy to demolish them.``

That is purely your prerogative. Thanks for the discussion `nyways.

Sadna #71,

I think I am failing to make my point. Could you please explain to me where
I have legitimized abuse here ? I very well may have, but a pointer would help.

By the way, I don`t think such labels are all that calculated - they`re just not that
sophisticated, abuse-wise. For a certain set of people, labelling is a natural reaction
when they fail to debate on substantive issues. If one has enough energy or time, it
is also rather easy to demolish them.

plats8 #70
``the anti-Muslim label is sort of a knee-jerk reaction,and not really cultivated abuse. Would you agree ?``

Not at all. The label is used in a deliberate and calculated way to de-legitimize the other guy`s POV with no effort.

btw, if you see how Hindutva-vadis argue, one of their first arguments is to call someone disagreeing with them `anti-Hindu`. I doubt you would as happy to explain that away. It is a empty and meaningless argument, which is why such an accusation comes along with a supporting chorus.

``I am not legitimizing abuse in any form.``

You could have fooled me. The citizens of the 6th largest country had better grow up soon - stop shielding them in your skirts.

tahmed shown up

---

runs out the door...shameless creature

Sadna #69,

Arre, aap naaraaz kyun ho gaye ? I am not trying to defend anyone or anything; quite
content with letting people fight their own battles. These were just random observations
that I wanted to share. I have been accused of being a mullah and rabidly anti-Muslim
in the same thread at chowk - people often see what they want to see.

My understanding is that the anti-Muslim label is sort of a knee-jerk reaction,
and not really cultivated abuse. Would you agree ? Mind you, I am not legitimizing
abuse in any form.

plats8 #68
If you want to defend abusers and be an accessory in their essential dishonesty, that is your choice, not mine.

And if they did not resort to tantrums and nautankis and blanket accusations of being anti-Muslim on encountering disagreement, they would have fewer existential problems.

And IMO people from a country which now has the 6th largest population in the world have no business whining about existential problems and victimhood, that too so many years after independence. They have just overtaken Russia, so whats next Russians whining about how victimised they are.

ana #64
``(didn`t know you read `em)``

Indeed I do, occasionally and when the subj. is general (not personal). You write well :).

Sadna #65,

Of course. I was merely pointing out the qualitatively different targets for gaaliya-s
in the two cases. About generally labeling Indians as anti-Muslim (which many Indians
are) and thanking god, Jinnah and everyone else for Pakistan, there are real existential
issues there; not that I agree with them, but they do exist.

ana #64 As I said in #63 (where I have also summarized what I have to say on this), I am have wasted enough time setting the record straight with saxena and so will not be responding to any more of his posts.

I am glad you confirmed that you you did not call me a liar in your post, and this exposes yet another misrepresentation made by saxena (in #62), and one where he obviously would have failed to meet the challenge I made for him to back his claims or to stand exposed as a liar (just as he has failed to meet my previous challenges regarding his earlier misrepresentations).

I will accept that I have not come out as strong with Salim as I have with some Indian posters for similar language, and perhaps being of the same nationality has contributed to this bias. But at least, as you note, I have at least brought this to Salim`s attention - albeit in a less harsh manner - which is still more than can be said for ANY indian poster on chowk, I am sorry to say (other than Stuka, who used to try to confront his abusive countrymen, and then seems to have given up): thus, gb routinely writes lewd posts directed to Pakistani female posters and to female members of Pakistani male posters, and NOT ONE indian male has had the moral courage - not even the decent ones among them of whom I have always spoken highly - to take him to task, even in the gentle manner I have in case of Salim. Indeed, I appreciate that you are saying what you feel, rather than trying to take sides as a ``fellow pakistani``. Also note, that I have in the past been as strongly worded with pakistani posters when they have ridiculed hindus (ask urstruly, to take a prime example). So, while I dont claim to be free from biases, I do try to be fair. But your point is a good one in any case, since it is not good to be biased against any group of people.

i think you both need to stop this and move on. . . you`re both sounding rather juvenile.

tahmed sahib,

just as you feel that rsaxena implied all pakistanis are vermin (i know that rsax does not consider me to be vermin) i did imply in my post to you that you are being biased. calling rsaxena an abusive freak, and tapping salim ever so gently wherever when he is being ``abusive`` to women on unplugged clearly shows bias on your part. and that intrigues me. so while i have not called you a liar, i have questioned your bias. rsax is not too far off the mark here.

sadna,
thanks for responding to my ilog. (didn`t know you read `em) point taken. :)

plats#59
``Pakistanis are sensitive about being Muslim``

Yes, but that is no reason to term anyone who disagrees with them `anti-Muslim`. They aren`t the only Muslims in the world.

rsaxena #62: You are lying yet again!! If you wish to prove otherwise, I challenge you (yet again!!) to cut and paste where this poster (ana) called me a ``biased liar`` or even indicated anything to this affect. Like the coward that you are, you now hide behind a Pakistani poster (in other words, a ``Pakistani vermin`` to use your own words about Pakistanis, whom you have been routinely insulting and putting down for years on chowk even though). Your post (and the ones before) are proof that to cover up one lie, a liar ultimately tangles himself up in a web of a hundred lies.

When I apply some adjective to you (e.g. two-faced, foul-mouthed, lying, cowardly abuser, freak), I base it on what you have written and can easily back it up. (see above, e.g., or #55 and #56 e.g., which you have carefully ignored and where I discussed at length why your behavior is part of the typical profile of an abusive individual).

You on the other hand have been merely tossing back the same empty claim that I am a liar over and over again, but without being able to back this claim even once, even after I have explicitly challenged you to back your words by cutting and pasting what I have written. .

I have wasted enough time with a pathetic specimen like you. I will not respond to any more posts you may write (retaining, as always, by right to change my mind).

tauheed, a pakistani is showing you up for the biased liar you are....not me...directing your anger at me is not going to help here

saxena: you can keep lying and i`ll keep setting you straight, you damned freak. Having been proven a liar in my post #55 and your abusive personality exposed in my post #56. Now go to hell.

as for feeling sorry - you are the one with depressions, not me. damned lying, abusive freak!!

ana

you`re right to let it go...let tauheed drown in his own web of bias, lies, and hypocrisy (and now filth - check out his friend salim on unplugged)....at his age, i actually feel sorry for the guy...

Sadna #58,

I agree with the general theme of your post here, but the issue here is often one
of identity rather than Indians or Pakistanis out-insulting each other. It seems to me
that Indians are generally sensitive about being Indian, and Pakistanis are sensitive
about being Muslim. As a result, most Pakistani invectives are directed towards
Hindus/Hinduism.

Remarks about religion seem more prejudiced than remarks about countries - has
little to do with Paki`ness.

ana #your ilog
From my pov - abusers are both Indian and Pakistani. But there is a group of people here which goes regularly goes postal when someone disagrees with them. For them that person is at best `uppity` at worst a hatemongerer, Muslim-basher, Paki-basher, product of bad upbringing (warranting abusing of parents and family members and claiming such abuse is a self-righteous act), bi_got, RSS/VHP extremist, and all the rest. As a bonus measure, they routinely issue blanket accusations about posters they dislike, of insulting their Prophet. This group of dishonest people has nothing to say on any article or subject and their sole contribution is going from thread to thread personally insulting those whose arguments they disagree with.

They also put up a big act when people give them back as good as they give. So for instance when abc puts up pictures of poor Indians that is hailed by them as a heroic act. However, if xyz puts up pictures of poor Pakistanis, hai ri daiyya how typically bigotted castist Hindu, thank god we have Pakistan, and etc. Or on a thread discussing Hinduism or some Indian issue, they sidle up and begin to talk of Gujarat/Dalits etc out of the blue and if someone gives them info on Taliban or LeT in return, they start immediately start whining about Paki-bashing Muslim-bashing etc.

Basically on each thread a tragedy queen/tragedy king act commences with nautanki baaz Tola members in close attendence to fudge any subject under the sun with nasty personal remarks. It is hard not to name this phenomenon `Paki-ness` here, though it doubtless happens elsewhere too.

If that is the type of discourse chowk.com wants, that is what it is going to get. Frankly, mainu ki?

hamidm should be thankful that the comupter crashed and the url for chowk in its memory is lost, lest his daughter be exposed to chowk.

i think thanksgiving is quintissential american festival, about eating, football (ok lions is not much of football), and to hell with history. what is there not to like? the only thing i hate about thanksgiving is the scene at our local grocer. i live in this sedate town with a laid-back gocer, where there is never any line at the checkout, and they bring your cart to the car. on normal days there is a flurry of activitiy around 6 pm from soccer moms and dads picking up ``home-made`` food from the hot food counter. most other isles are empty except for the indians trying to figure out if rajma is same as red kidney beans or dark red.

a week before thanksgiving the town suddenly discovers the gocer. the parking lot gets full, SUVs are parked even behind the blockbuster which does not need its loading dock. there are cart accidents and there is a traffic cop at the door (may be its the salvation army guy). women are frantically asking the grocer for the green-bean cassarole ingredients isle.

so i am thankful that the town goes back to relying on the ``homemade meals`` counter after the flurry of cooking on t`giving.

and mr T, is not the kanadian t`giving a month earlier?

saxena #53 ``Oh what a tangled web we weave, when we practice to deceive``!! Ha! ha! You now stand exposed as the shameless liar that I said you were.

Having failed to back your lies that I have been calling people`s mothers names, you come up with the additional lie that chowk staff took away that post. However, you are not as clever as you think you are, and I will now expose your second lie as well:

I have written THOUSANDS of posts on chowk over a period of 6 years, some of them quite hostile ones (typically to hindu or muslim chauvinist posters). You are unable to come up with even one example of something you can post that matches the filth and snide remarks that you and your ``17 year old`` routinely write. Indeed, I challenge you to find even one post that contains the kind of nationalistic slurs and insults to other people`s religions that you and your kind routinely post on chowk.

I dont even write a hostile post unless there is a good reason for it - you and your kind on the other hand pop your ugly heads into perfectly friendly discussions in order to derail them with your abusive remarks and putdowns. See your own first post on this very board, post #33, as an example of this.

The plain and simple fact is that you were blatantly lying when you started accusing me over the weekend that I called someone`s mother a ``w....`` As I told you then, if I wanted to insult someone, I would write something more interesting than just some street abuse. I of course reserve the right to use any word I consider appropriate, but refuse to accept your lie that I wrote something that I did not. If ever I think I have gone over the line, I simply apologize and move on. I dont try to pile one lie over another. That is the practice of a shameless, two-faced lying freak like you.

ana #54 you write ``, rsax apologized. some of us were hopeful that he would change. and he was a kinder gentler person.`` you are too kind with this abusive man. While I have great respect and appreciation for your intervention, for reasons explained below I believe this man needs to be exposed for his blatant lies (see the latest post from him and my response).

Please be fair and look at how it all started with saxena`s post #33 below - the man came out of the blue to put down a perfectly inoffensive, lighthearted post I had written and to start calling me a ``hypocrite`` without any basis. Granted he was mad at me because I had similarly exposed his lies on unplugged - but that is no excuse for his attempts to steamroll his lies and negative remarks about me. This is exactly what I mean when I say this man demonstrates the profile of an abusive man. Also, the other attributes of an abusive man that I listed and which I said saxena has displayed over the past 6 years on chowk in my previous post are not my creation - I have seen those listed quite authortatively as being the well-recognized signs of an abusive man. I have also read that in dealing with an abusive man one does not wait for a ``softer, kinder`` persona will emerge - that doesnt happen. The only way to deal with such individuals is to show them they cant get away with it.

In real life of course, I doubt if this man (or any of the other paper tigers on chowk who abuse posters who dont agree with their views, or who routinely put down the nationality or religion of other posters) would have the guts to say this to any other man`s face, since an abuser is also a coward. But unfortunately there is no shortage of such individuals in this world (as women from poor familiies the world over can attest, for example) . However, one does not have to put up with them, even on chowk, where these cowards think they are protected and so can abuse other people like they would abuse people in real life who are in a weaker position than them.

You are a decent and gentle person, and I am sorry that this interaction was upsetting to you. I may not agree with you on everything you write, but I certainly very much appreciate where you are coming from, and have full respect for you as a decent, intelligent and well-meaning person. I hope you will change your mind about this board, and change the topic to what it should have been all along - something in the spirit of thanksgiving and in the spirit of gentle poetry that t so admirably writes.

the truth is bitter isn`t it tauheed?

....you got showed up and exposed for the liar and hypocrite you are....and the words are not even mine or that of another indian....they are from someone from your own country....

you have no shame to suggest that even she is misrepresenting the truth which only you are a privileged holder of....shameful, pitiful, 54-year-old man you are....

now go back to unplugged and pat your buddy salim on the back while pointing fingers at indians...

tauheed

{I challenge you to cut and paste what I have written.}

chowk staff deleted the contents of the thread, which you well know...else you wouldn`t be asking this...but khamkhwa argued with you on that very thread over precisely that point and you are LYING about it.....he will even verify it.....

tahmed,

no, i don`t ignore the fact that he apologized (and not just to pakistanis). i ignore nothing about anyone here, in spite of what some think.

as for my contradicting myself. . . if i showed up after a while being away, and someone asked me how i was and i was honest in my answer, like, ``not too good.`` am i necessarily asking for sympathy, or am i just being honest? that of course is up to us to decide. you suggest that rsax ``asked`` like he wanted our sympathy. if i responded to rsax as i did, it`s because perhaps i can relate to not feeling good. so you think i contradicted myself. i don`t think i did. it`s all a matter of interpretation.

yes, rsax apologized. some of us were hopeful that he would change. and he was a kinder gentler person. but i`m not going to put all the blame on him for him changing his tune. and i wasn`t really asking for your sympathy. nor do i have total sympathies for rsax in terms of his behavior.

and one more thing, i am aware of the profile of an abusive man. i grew up around one. and whether that fits saxena or not, is really not for me to judge in the cyberworld. i could name quite a few who fit the profile in one way or another, if not completely. i`ve never condoned his behavior. but i`m not going to pat some fellow pakistanis on the back either for the things they say, as i`ve seen you do. i don`t ignore racist comments, and i will take sides when i see those being bandied around as if they were just empty words. and the funny thing is, i don`t see rsax as the main offender when it comes to that. or lying. or being two-faced. i just don`t. so why are we focusing on him alone?

you have a wonderful and undoubtedly dignified life outside of chowk. and i recall having a great deal of respect for you once upon a time. chowk does change people i suppose, if we allow it to. it has certainly changed me, it`s been quite the eye-opener. i will not be returning to this board. thank you for having responded to me.

back to the poem. the poem i haven`t read.

saxena: As i have said, you are a shameless liar. If you wish to prove otherwise, I challenge you to cut and paste what I have written. It is freaks like you (who abuses other posters with words like ``mofo``) and this ``17 year old`` who have polluted chowk with filth and lewd statements to women, not me. This ``17 year old`` has been kicked out once from chowk by chowk staff, along with all his ilogs and other rubbish, and he has come back with another nick to pollute chowk.

ana:

you write ``rsaxena never came to unplugged and discussed the nature of his depression or whatever he was going through at the time....and said he was going through a rough time``

You are contradicting yourself here. Clearly he made it clear that he was looking for sympathy - otherwise why would you and others (including myself) have offered him these sympathies?

Also, you ignore the fact that a few months ago he apologized to Pakistanis on unplugged for his past behavior and promised to indulge in it again, thus eliciting the sympathy to begin with. Then he changed his tune and was back to indulging in his old behavior. This is the typical profile of an abusive man (abuse, seek sympathy, promise to reform, abuse some more). So, I am sorry but I fail to share your sympathy with him.

you write ``those who did commiserate with him are not the same folk he has addressed as vermin. ``

I am sorry I cannot accept this reasoning. If he meant some specific individuals, he should have said so. He clearly was referring to all Pakistanis when he said ``Pakistani vermin``. This is the typical defense of an abusive man - that he didnt mean what he said at the time.

you write ``we, at chowk have consistently been guilty of drawing that fine line between generalizing about an entire group of people, and lumping them into categories rather than addressing specific persons.``

There are indeed a large number of individuals on chowk who do this. I am not one of them - and I have written thousands of posts on chowk. Most of the time I am addressing specific posters, and cutting and pasting what they have written in order not to incorrectly attribute things to them. So, please dont use the word ``we``. All posters do not stereotype people. A few Indian posters in fact explicitly have claimed in fact that they have come to chowk for ``paki bashing`` (arjun and jay, as I recall).

I agree with you on the lewd language some posters use towards female chowkies. I think chowk staff should take a very hard line here.

I wish you happy holidays as well.

look who is talking.....tauheed, the 54-year-old who does ma - behen gaaliyan with some 17-year-old interactor on unplugged...and i`m the loser ... hahahaha ... i don`t see dost-mittar or hamidm or other men your age doing the same - you`re the sole out of control retard...how do you feel about yourself?....

waisay, you`ve taken strong offense to the term paki vermin....are you one of them? - you must be, why else would you still be crying about it....

tuaheed

{A dog is a friendly animal who does not wag his tail and bite at the same time. }

indeed...unless the dog has rabies like you do ....

tahmed: #46

since we have gone way off the topic of this poem, which few people actually responded to, let me just say a few words here.

rsaxena never came to unplugged and discussed the nature of his depression or whatever he was going through at the time. he just left for a bit. when he did come back, he still did not talk about it, he came back and said he was going through a rough time, and there were some pakistanis there who commiserated with him. i was one of them, so i remember. those who did commiserate with him are not the same folk he has addressed as vermin.

it is difficult not to develop a negative mindset towards those who are consistently bashing a group as a whole, or justifying murderous attacks on a group of people, as one pakistani has recently reminded me. i don`t care at all for the fashion in which rsax makes his comments, but one of the reasons i have not derided him, and determined him to be a ``paki hater`` as many pakistanis have is because his problems with a few pakistanis here at chowk does not warrant him being labelled as such. and if such is the case then we need to clean our lens, and look at how many pakistanis are ``indian haters`` or more precisely ``hindu haters``. . . those who cheer on when a pakistani makes a rude and insulting remark about an indian, and it`s not just because of if they can do it, so can we.

we, at chowk have consistently been guilty of drawing that fine line between generalizing about an entire group of people, and lumping them into categories rather than addressing specific persons. there are those who have labelled anyone who is anti-pakistan or those who question pakistan government`s policies as being hindutva. that is such a joke.

and tahmed sahib, when was the last time where rsaxena referred to a woman, be they indian or pakistani as a w h o r e, a s l u t, or a filthy b i t c h? it`s been a while and i`m fortunate to have missed that. and yet you have some of your unplugged pakistani buddies, who have called me filthy, and a b i t c h not too long ago. when have you most recently called upon someone who has referred to saminasha as semen asha, and is acting just as much a 15 year old to not be ``abusive``? is he being any less abusive than you think rsax is. your happier and fuller life and your robust health are not the issue here, though i am glad you are in excellent health. it is your consistency as a mature participant on chowk that is the issue. if everyone is going to pounce and be strongly critical of the things that rsaxena says and does, and give him the power to affect you the way he does, why pray tell do you relinquish the same responsibility when it comes to other supposedly mature chowkies who happen to be pakistani?

i marvel at some of you more mature pakistani men and women. i truly do. one of you talks about how it is best to ignore people like gujju who with their gaaliyaan sound like mere empty vessels, and indeed you yourselves sound just as empty when you trash the behavior of one, and yet encourage the other. let`s just say that rsax and i are NOT the only two-faced people on this particular board or at chowk.

happy holidays!

rsaxena #44 I am not insulted by being referred to as a dog. A dog is a friendly animal who does not wag his tail and bite at the same time. Nor am I insulted by references to my age - I am very proud to be 54 - I am blessed with a far happier and fuller life than you have obviously had to date (given the negative mindset you have consistently demonstrated on chowk), and even today am probably in more robust health than you are at 15 (or whatever age you claim to be on chowk).

On the other hand, I would be insulted if I was compared to you - you are the two-faced man who seeks sympathy from Pakistanis on unplugged for his depressions, then comes to the front page and refers to them as ``Pakistani vermin``; a man who has spent over 5 years on chowk contributing nothing but fights with female chowkies and snide and abusive remarks to other posters.

ana

{ah, it is so good to know that there are some mature souls on chowk. the question remains: where the heck are they?! }

you are right, tauheed has been acting really poorly and immaturely for a dog his age

=== Interact Filtered ===
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T Bhai

I have never really understood the concept of thankgiving, I mean its like the Pak Army giving free guided tours of the future hawkesbay Subarbs to the original baluch inhabitants who inhabited the villages in and around the now Pak Army occupied area, but than thats me. Also when the original pilgrims halaled those turkey`s in front of the indians, did the indians recognise any of their pet turkey at the time and uttered its name. I guess these little details have been forgotten and the world is suppose to accept thanksgiving as a universally accepted celebration, explain that to the fallujans.

Anyways, love the urdu bits, a lot of potential in your Urdu poetry i think, need to see some more of it.

rgds

Syed Ali

ah, it is so good to know that there are some mature souls on chowk. the question remains: where the heck are they?!

i shall return when they reappear, am afraid i will have to switch off the bajillion corporate sponsors in the meantime.

hamidm: It is not you who triggered this, so no need to apologize. I made the mistake of wasting time responding to this escapee from unplugged. Like many other turkeys this thanksgiving, he was burnt to a crisp by the mirror that I put to his foul-mouthed two-faced freak. I have of course already apologized to t for responding to this creep.

Anyway, good to see Huma Mir make a cameo appearance in #35. Something good comes out of everything.

and here we are
with flooded memories
of secretions and excretions
footnotes in the continuing travail
between rsaxena and tahmed

sorry, temporal - i promise never to mess with your poetry again

smoke smoke - someone open the fire hydrant and let tauheed bend over in front of it

anyone notice tauheed the naali ka keera do the ma behen routine on unplugged?

these are tahmed`s classy friends from across the border

``EAT HORSE S_IT YOU JACK ASS! take some cow dung too in that shit shake your gonna have in a while, throw in a couple of dung cupcakes and dung patties as well.

Whore.``

saxena: dont flatter yourself, scumbag. you are a pathetic characterless man who apologizes to pakistanis on unplugged for his slimy behavior and seeks their sympathy for his depression. Then you come to the front page to appease two taka hindu thugs by referring to pakistanis as vermin. A pathetic specimen indeed, from a country that seems to have more than its share of pathetic specimen.

your abusive language doesnt bother me since i have seen enough of your kind on chowk by now. i dont mind giving you a piece of my mind once in a while on unplugged though, just for the heck of it. not that i could care less one way or another about scum like you.

Temporal: my apologies to temporal for messing up this fine board dealing with this slimeball (he escapes from unplugged once in a while). No doubt he will twist and turn and try to wiggle out of this board, but never fear - we have strong anti-pollutants to deal with his kind :-)

i smell smoke coming from 1818 H Street, N.W. - someone save the peon

On #33: Oh yes. Over thanksgiving I took an Indian CREIP named saxena and burnt him to a crisp on unplugged, simply by holding the mirror to his lying, foul-mouthed face. I see the CREIP turkey is still squaking 24 hours later in #33 trying to take revenge. ha! ha!

More seriously: Go to hell, you abusive, foul mouthed two-faced confused little man from India.

rsaxena # 33 writes to tahmed ``stop trying to be funny...``

now coming from rsaxena, thats pretty funny :)

thamed #32

stop trying to be funny...you aren`t....just makes you look like an even bigger simpleton....leave the humor to hamidm...you can specialize in hypocrisy and lies

hamidm: Glad to learn of the aftermath.

I too held a funeral ceremony for the deceased turkey this morning - put it inside a coffin consisting of two bags of plastic bags, then (after saying a short muslim prayer), put his bones to rest by gently tossing the coffin 15 feet to the garbage can at the other end of the garage. The turkey landed on the edge of the can where it was dangled on the edge for a split second while the world watched with bated breath, and then gently slid into the garbage can. Gone. But not forgotten.

.... the aftermath ...

....... whan i walked into the kitchen this morning it looked sad and forlorn with the carcass of the turkey sitting on the counter as if picked by vultures and buzzards ............ upon further examination i discovered that there really isn`t enough meat on it to save for sandwiches so i unceremoniously dumped it out in the trash - no taps, no bugles ..........so inspite of protestations from some of the guests who have been for hajj and now think it is haram to celebrate this quintessential and beloved american holiday, everybody attacked the poor bird with the ferocity of a true believer beheading an infidel ..............

................mrs hamidm`s fine china was put away last night, handwashed by the bosnian slave girl, but i could see some backbreaking scrubbing of the pots and shining of the counters ahead while the girls go shopping when they get up around noon ......... maybe i can say i have to go in to work for a couple of hours and stop by fred`s to have some hair of the dog - but after nineteen years of marriage mrs hamidm has this uncanny ability to see through my feeble attempts at lying and cheating .......... i used to walk in a couple of hours late and say something like, `` i have this important client meeting in the morning``, and she would retort, ``put out the coat in the garage, it smells of cigar smoke``........ or i would say, ``i will be right back, have to run to the post office``, and she would say, `` don`t stay at mcormick`s too long and say hi to anil`` - the woman is clairvoyant! ........ scary! ................

........... anyway, the dinner was wonderful inspite of the one or two party poopers who insisted on saying their isha prayers and then had the audacity to ask me which way was kibla ........ how am i supposed to know!....... so i pointed them in any odd direction and let them have at it - serves them right if they get thrown in hell for praying to the water heater !......... somone else had brought another bird to feed the hungry horde ...... this bird was a disgrace - it looked rather pale and peaked sitting on the table next to my shiny brilliant brown and red gobbler lying legantly on a bed of romain lettuce surrounded by royal blue grapes ............ i almost cried when i had to stab it in the breast .............

.......... but before i commited the dastardly act, my daughter clinked her glass of non-alcaholic bubbly and set the stage for my little speech ............ so i talked about how we should be thankful for the bounty that we had received from this great land of the free and home of the brave ......... i reminded the crowd that they had done really nothing to deserve the meal that they were about to eat - they did not have to live in log cabins and drive across the continent in covered wagons and build the railroads and live without indoor plumbing .......... all of them had arrived in wide bodied jets, received federal or state funding for their graduate studies in engineering and medicine and had been catapulted into the top ten percent of the tax paying public even as their parents received ssi and medicare ................of course my daughter rolled her eyes when i mentioned dinesh d`souza and bobby jindal ......... groping for a good role model from the ummah, i mentioned fareed zakaria the great muslim wine connoisseur who one day might be the secretary of state ............. i get a lttle reckless after a few glasses of merlot, and so i went ahead and told my guests to think about the brave young men dying in iraq to bring freedom and democracy to the less fortunate ........... i got a standing ovation from the inebriated hindoo and my good republican friends, another roll of the eyes from my daughter (she is cute!), that look from mrs hamidm that i have grown to love over the years, and a pitiful painful look from the righteous who silently prayed for forgiveness and asked their lord to protect their children from the shaitaan ............

.............. now i have to go and clean up the mess - call it divine retribution

Urstruly:

You are absolutely correct if you add the qualification, ``according to my religion``.

Dost

The only correct and best ritual sacrifice of animals is that of four legged ones in the name of Allah.

Urstruly:
Dont believe hamidm. There is no ritual killing of turkeys during Thanksgiving. The only ritualistic killings I am aware of are of halal and kosher meats, and the now almost abandoned practice of sacrifices to the Kali goddess in Bengal.

Turkey is a traditional item at Thanksgiving both in Canada and the US but it is due to its convenience for cooking a meal for large family get togethers. For this reason, it is also a traditional item at X-Mas and the Easter. While Thanksgiving is certainly associated with big dinners, more and more people are now trying alternatives. Newspapers are full of vegetarian alternative recipes and the horrible hindoos feel free to substitute turkey with daal makhnis, shahi paneers and halwa poories.

Good to get a blow by blow account from Hamidm of ``How I ruined thanksgiving from my kids by talking about war, and how I almost made it worse by thinking of experimenting with the turkey``. But...how do you get those good desi guests of yours to actually say ``Thank you, God``?? (When a muslim tries to say ``Thank you, God``, out comes ``Ya Allah, forget about all my sins, OK?``)

Also glad to read Mr. ts account of the jailbird Zardari singing after being let loose. Do we have to listen to this man again!!! Isnt life hard enough as it is!!

Sorry to see the lions loose. Saw the beginning of the game in the men`s locker in the gym, and then went on to sweat it out assuming I would see more of it there. But, all they had was news and stuff and a dog show on the TV in the gym and - honest, am not making this up - two women on the treadmill in front of me who actually cooed with delight when seeing this stupid poodle with hair all puffed up and rear end shaven. Wanted to switch to the lions game but didnt know the channel. Anyway, enough about my problems.

Turkey is ready (not done by self though). House is clean as a whistle (as our st. mary`s english book of common english phrases would have put it). Wife`s car has been vacuumed. (Drumbeat) Am ready to go in 35 minutes to pick up wifey from airport. Happy happy joy joy!!

temporal - beautiful poem. read I and II too. But I wonder why, with a title of `thanksgiving`, they leave a sense of sadness.

So I drove last night to parents home. Had hard time getting out of bed this morning. After few stern warnings, got ready for so and so`s place where we were invited for dinner. Weather was gloomy all day with thick clouds all over.

As much of a tradition as it is on thanksgiving, I simply hate turkey. I mean really, I hear all this talk of making it `just right`. But I have never had the luck of seeing it `just right`. It is always bland, and stiff and a bit chewy.

In any case, the get together turned out to be ok. I wasn`t bored. Kids kept me busy and entertained while uncles talked and aunties gossiped.

I saw on TV the two turkeys that were pardoned by Bush. Coming from this former Texas governor who had the most inmates put to death than another in US history, those turkeys were really lucky. Not sure what this `pardon` gesture is supposed to mean. Is it supposed to show the `merciful` side of the US President? I wonder if President Musharraf would follow US presidents and start pardoning a cow, or a sheep or a goat? Wouldn`t that be fun!

Ok, so back to the dinner. Thankfully there were some items other than turkey. So I had a little bit of salad, and soup with garlic bread. NO KHAMI I DID NOT GORGE ON FOOD. Desert was ok - rice pudding. I think I could have made it better. Actually let me take it back. I could have made it FAR better. Thats better.

quite enjoyable, interesting...kept my attention 100% allthrough....keep it coming.

BTW this comment is about Hamid sahib`s live commentary.;)

but ritual sacrifice publically of animals is ok. :)

unless some secret dispatch from almighty above says birds are innocent and animals are not.

...no...you are an asshole...you could have been considered a prick albeit a small one if you had shown similar remorse at each year`s qurbani of a dumba, sheep, goat or cow...

Urstruly,
``The ritual sacrifice of innocent birds is wrong and shameful``

So what do you think of the sacrifice of innocent bakras on Bakrid?

Khamkha

I am not an asshole, I am a prick. I want my pound of flesh.

Dost

The ritual sacrifice of innocent birds is wrong and shameful

t:

Sounds nice, but there are some tough urdu nuts to crack here!

Urstruly:

So, were you a vegetarian this eid?

hamidm:

I envy how your daughters treat you as their friend and share their little school secrets!

``because people like you voted for that idiot bush because you want your tax money - blood money !``...........

Hey, I like your daughter. Glad she`s picking only the one kind of right stuff from you while rejecting the other ``right`` stuff.

...and a tip. Use the two-pronged fork instead of your thumb to carve the turkey. Happy Thanksgiving!

..... thanksgiving is finally here !

........ at 4:15, about an hour ahead of schedule, i opened up a bottle of merlot, poured a glass, basted the turkey, checked on the neck, gizzard, clerey and onion that are simmering in a soup of swanson chicken broth and after another squirt of the juices took a long sip ......... not bad! - for a cheap california merlot ........ of course the lions got humiliated 41-9 but john cougar mellencamp was simply wonderful in the half-time tribute to america - what a great american !.............. but i miss hockey..... every year i wonder what would happen to the gravy if i threw the liver and heart in with the gizzard and neck but i just don`t have the courage to mock the spirit of thanksgiving .........

......... it is eerily quite - the girls must upstairs quibbling over the shade of nail polish ...... i wonder if the indians wore nail polish when they sat down to eat the turkey .........

disaster strikes!


.....it is 5:20 and the guests should be coming soon ..... as usual. i suspect the thirsty hindoo to come first , that is if he ever made it back home from the bar where i left him last night ........ the last to come will be the good muslims who will offer their maghrib prayers and ask to be forgiven for participating in a heathen festival before showing up to dig into the turkey with fanatical vengence ...

.......but look at what i just did !...... i took the pot of necks and gizzard and celery that had been stewing for the last four hours and dumped it into the sink !........ i forgot to put a pot under the strainer !........ and i only had three glasses of merlot - honest, officer!............now what?......... gravy out of a can or packet !.......... what blasphemy! ....... i wonder if the hadood laws apply to this ... this .. horrible crime!........... oh, this is just sooooo terrible !

hamidm:

(T)

keep the updates coming...here is my take (your readin` snail?;)) on mr. fifteen percent`s first and exclusive interview with Ary`s shahid last night...yes am bored too;)


Last night on Ary saw Zardari act incumbent
Earnest, passionate and waxing eloquent

He talked of eight years of incarceration
And how it contributed to his maturation

Missing his children’s growth due to separation
And denied universal charges of corruption

Alternately he beamed reason and compassion
And spoke of no need for street demonstration

Alternatively he invoked the ghost of Zulfi
And praised his wife and erstwhile leader Pinky

Said unconvincingly about his mortality
A dead Asif would mean party vitality

Spoke of dialogue and reconciliation
And denied with Murteza any altercation

Glossing over differences with Pinky
He drew bedroom and boardroom for a not-twinkie

My take is despite repeated references
And for Zulfi and Pinky show of deference

His ego is as bloated as Mohterma’s
And his respect for her and dad is pro-forma

And since we all live in men’s unforgiving world
Out of Party one of them will be swirled and hurled

The popular party with the people’s mandate
Is not big enough for two egoistic mates


;)

family squabbles while the turkey cooks .........

........it is almost 3:00 pm and i tried to open a bottle of wine ........mrs hamidm objected and reminded me that i had not kept a single fast this ramadhan and the two she-devils chimed in with, ``it`s not right that we had to like go to sunday school when we were little and where the teachers were so like so lame, and didn`t speak english, and kept on telling us that we would not get to go to the six flags in jannah if we like ate at mcdonalds and, now, like our lives are ruined ?``............ uh ?..... seems like it has something to do with an english paper that is due wednesday and chemisty test on monday .............``like it is no fun going to a geeky school where everything is so hard and my friends at u of m have to write a four page paper and i have to write a eight page paper, and my english teacher is so opinionated and so mad that bush won that she is being a real beatch ever since`` ............ oh, and of course i am a real bad father because the hard disk on the old laptop that my little one inherited crashed and like she lost all the songs she had on i-tunes and now, like, her life is ruined too ..............

.... so i made the stupid mistake of reminding the older one that a lot of the kids who were dying in iraq are not much older than her and that having to write a paper was a whole lot easier than getting your leg blown off ...........``and why are they dying?`` she screamed ......... why?... bewildered, i asked .........``because people like you voted for that idiot bush because you want your tax money - blood money !``...........whoa !..........

........ so i look at the unopened bottle of wine and sheepishly openend the oven to squirt the juices on the turkey (it is looking good!)............`` i think you have writer`s block; go study chemistry for now and then write your paper after dinner``...........``don`t tell me what to do - i am joining the army so that you will be happy when i get blown up! ``...........``i love you``...........``i soooo like hate you - you don`t understand how difficult it is to live with that stupid chinese girl and eat cafeteria food every day``.......... i wanted to say something about the mre`s that the kids in iraq are eating - but discretion is the better part of valour ................ and then the other one chimes in, ``i don`t like you anymore because you gave me a bum computer``.........all this time, after firing the opening shot, mrs hamidm is innocently walking around with green vegetable stuff on her face and egg yolk in her hair putting little ribbons around the napkins ........... it is nice to be loved! .........

.......... i think i will open the merlot at 4:15

Is it Osama who hates Thanksgiving? I always thought it was Sitting Bull, Tucumshe, Geronimo and Pocohontos who hated Thanksgiving.........

hamidm:

...do me a favour....spare the poem and continue with the turkey post-mortem:)...the indian dance ritual...did you do it in her kitchen or outdoors?...also...did you stick any feathers in that full head of yours?...unaltered digital photos would speak more than a 1000 words...i read somewhere...

temporal,

...... sorry, i am sure it is a good poem and i promise to read it later ........ but, for now, thanks for providing a platform to vent my thanksgiving exuberance .........

snail:

lead the charge!

hamidm:

continue with the updates...have a feeling they would get more interesting after sunset...or turkey consumption...which ever comes first:)

Khamy:

…you are charged with attempted murder… and assault causing bodily harm against 4 men and 1 language…;)

(my 17 words for your 34)

rgds,

t

Where did kafirs and birds come into this. Can we have a lore intelligent feedback to what looks like damn good poem?

.....the perpetual question ....

........ it is 1:15 pm and the properly mummified bird is in the oven, salted and all wrapped up in cheese cloth soaked in butter like the ancient pharoahs .......... before sticking it in puragotry we did the ritual red man dance around it to emulate the indians who came for dinner with the pilgrims - years ago, when the kids were little, i convinced them that that is what you are supposed to do ........ but over the years they have grown a little sceptical and will only give a half-hearted ``yipee`` at the end before returing to writing papers on ``why osama hates thanksgiving`` or listening to indie rock or doing whatever it is that kids do ..........

......... but the perpetual question remains - at what time is it appropriate to start drinking the wine so that you are still sober enough to carve the turkey without amputating your thumb ? ........ i figure around five should be okay - this way you can get a little feel-good buzz before some of the party-poopers arrive and i am banished to the basement with the hindoos and kafirs ...........

......... i`ll be back in an hour or so to give you an update on the turkey ........ i wonder what urstruly and osama do on thanksgiving ?

...rsaxena and urstruly... difficult to say who is a bigger asshole... hamidm obviously is in a class of his own...

ps: is there a society for protection of languages especially the much molested urdu...?

I feel for so many innocent birds slaughtered every year in the name of Zeus by these kafirs.

pass the gravy and praise steve jobs !

......... and this year we have a lot more to be thankful for other than the simple fact that mrs hamidm will let us use the fine china and stem ware that she keeps locked up all year ......... as the host this year i even get to make a little speech ......... so instead of a silly prayer to allah (swt) for providing us with the big bird and the stuffing, i will be sure to thank the ``supreme being`` and quote my favourite desi, dinesh d`souza, on the joys of being an american ........ of course i will get the usual dirty look from mrs hamidm at the mention of the supreme being which she thinks is subversive code word designed to brain wash the kids ........... so what are we thankful for ?

............to start with, i am thankful for my hair - i still have it and unlike most desi men my age i have more hair on my head than in my ears and that is a lot to be thankful for because mrs hamidm is at the age when she is beginning to panic about wrinkles and such ......... so, of course, we have to thank the great spirit in the sky for botox - i don`t know what she would have done without it ............. and even though my daughter didn`t get into the college of her choice and is not too happy being stuck in a ``geek`` school where nobody speaks english and thinks indie rock is something you dig up in tamilland, she is happy because her roommate stopped playing the cello in her room at two in the morning ........... and she is very very thankful that her parents are not chinese and that next year she can get to room with this cool girl from boston who has a convertible ............ my little one who is twelve going on thirty is thankful because erica moved to kentucy and so now, by default, monique is her best friend and she moves up in the mysterious pecking order of cheer leading .......... and we all thnk steve jobs for inventing the i-pod - what a neat little macine!......... i think we are the first three ipod family on the block even though the technologically challenged mrs hamidm is still struggling with her cell phone and hates digital cameras ..............

........ so pass the gravy and thnk steve jobs !

Some thing to ponder...

Ciao

why don`t you write a poem articulating your defense of the murder of van gogh? you`ll get more responses

``yaadouN ki raakh
ek shikanja-e-zeest``

Wahhhhhhhhhhh ankill t, almagnificanto...the urdu-english combo is really awesome, with some beautiful metaphors that have been implied. Very nicely done, thumbs up!

hmmmm!nice what else i can say just nice simply the best