When Vagina met Viagra

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ballukhan:

Just to set the record straight, just in case you are not aware: Salim`s posts here have not been removed because of what he has said here. He violated no guidelines on this board, neither did I ask the Chowk editors to delete his responses or anyone else`s in the past. I have never felt the need to do so and can deal with people in a manner I deem fit, which may not go well with a certain feministic `ideal`. But that`s another matter...

PS:Do write to me at farzanavee@chowk.com

#47 by salim on December 19, 2004 10:00am PT

No more prizes for guessing what this small peckered tall boy called Salim Chauhan is going to do in his next nick...

Farzana

I finally read this piece of yours. No doubt you’re the best writer at Chowk.

However, as I said before, I cannot relate to any of this. I cannot defend Viagra or put Vagina down. I’m Viagra and know that without Vagina I’m incomplete. Vagina completes me. For me, the question of which is ``better`` or ``superior`` never arises and this debate is as useless and dead as the debate about the existense of God.

As to the Mars/Venus debate, yes, we’re very different. Our modes of thinking, feeling and instinct are planets apart. The nature did that on purpose, otherwise the monotony would’ve killed both of us long ago.

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salim:

Well, thank you for your appreciation and your heartwrenching admission of the possibility of your insecurities coming to the fore. We all have them, and those who deny it suffer from them the most.

If by being from Venus, you are granting that I am in fact a woman (!!), then yes...a small aspect of my feminism is that I would not permit anyone to say, ``She fights like a man``.

This brings me to a small grouse I have with your post.

[Believe me, as a semi gynecologist (I happen to be a professional in almost the same category); all vaginas are not the same. If they were, the adult entertainment industry would be in dire straits. How many people, except some Indians hooked on redundancy and the die-hard Humphrey Bogart fanatics, watch the same movie over and over again? Varieties of shapes, sizes, and protrusions save us from the ultimate insult - ``Seen one, seen `em all.``]

What I was conveying when I said that not all vaginas are not the same was that I object to a stratification based on body parts. You, on the other hand, are seeing it in terms of variety and redundancy. I would most certainly not see vaginas for their ``adult entertainment industry`` potential, which even pathbreaking plays like `VM dialogues` do become.

I do not hold a mandatory position on promiscuity -- male or female -- but I would not dignify it with a ``seen one, seen `em all``. I would like to believe that people are the sum of their parts.

I am glad you found this to be an ``entertaining dialogue``.

Reminds of another one I had quoted a long while ago...

A young lad went to Confession and told the priest about the lustful thoughts that had been assailing his mind of late.

The padre, in a soothing voice, asked, ``But son, did you entertain them?``

``No,`` said the boy, ``they entertained me.``

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Just read this ur ilog-nice jot. I think they were rite about Chennai tho. Let it flow....

thums up on the i-log

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nargileh:

[(By the way, the rating for my i-log just went down overnight after I commented favorably for your article (really I didn`t even post a new journal or anything) :) Now we both have 3 stars! Yes! Equality is good. But it also signals what happens to Chowkies after they start supporting those g-golly fem-uh-nists. Oops.) ]

I may not be bothered at all about such things, but all the same...it is such a pity that this happened, but why am I not surprised? I liked the fem-uh-nists bit for reasons that should seem obvious :)

More some other time.

Farzana said:
``I think people are rating their peers (and since there is a wide chasm between my mental and chronological ages, I have no peers…)``

I know what that`s like--having that ``chasm`` and not really having peers.


(By the way, the rating for my i-log just went down overnight after I commented favorably for your article (really I didn`t even post a new journal or anything) :) Now we both have 3 stars! Yes! Equality is good. But it also signals what happens to Chowkies after they start supporting those g-golly fem-uh-nists. Oops.)

Question: Do you write for any other publication other than Chowk? I`d love to see more of your writings. But if you`d like, you can just email me at barzamuslim@yahoo.com. instead of interacting here.

Aahh, Farzana. No, I`m not ``touchy`` about this. I don`t normally read ilogs `cause I can tell from the name what I`m about to read. So I skip them. But I did catch yours. I was amused by it. Figured, right or wrong, where you werer coming from. I did see it as a cheap shot, though, as someone desparate for attentioin. But then again, what do I know...just a pompous little interactor among the intellectual giants.

ps: I haven`t read this piece. You thinK I should?

Eh.

The ilog piece was somewhat on the money. Farzana, you may be profess to be blase about The Vagina Monologues, but I`m beg. to suspect you are no Third Wave Feminist. Even those who were not over the moon about the Vagina Monologues did give it credit for trying to contribute to a dialogue. The people who insist there is no need for a dialogue tend to be conservative men and well, you, FV.

I had an interesting discussion about Lucille Clifton`s poems ``Poem to My Uterus`` ``Menstruation`` ``Wishes for Sons`` and a couple of others. This group of first year student women moaned and groaned about the visitations of the ``Curse``, werent even interested in what Clifton is trying to achieve in these poems about the female body. It took two students: Filipina-American and Puerto Rican Jewish American women to point out how our learned health care industry has pathologized the natural functions of a woman`s body. So even while Clifton is challenging some very old gender stereotypes of what femininity is after hysterectomies, the paternal gyny, the period as a hassle, there are apparently young women who would rather buy into the silence and suffering than the beauty of their own bodies.

I also asked my class to think about what it means for a respected African American elderly woman poet to write about the female body. And Ms. Clifton is nobody`s fool. Perhaps even ``we`` could learn something from her. Well, those willing to listen, anyway.

godot:

NO, I do not expect you to read this...re. penis and vagina being done to death, though, well...lots of things have been spoken about several times in different ways. This is my choice here, so let`s skip any arguments over this.

The ilog was written in jest and so was the post addressed to you here. I did not imagine for a moment that you of all people would get touchy about it.

Peace...

Farzana

Do I really need to read this piece? Penis and vagina have been beaten to death for my taste. Can you come up with something new?

godot:

mashallah, kucchh tao padh ke jawaab diya ;)

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Farzana

I have not read this piece, but I read the one in TFT. I plan to translate a short story by the bilingual writer Dick Shahadatbadi. Have you heard of his unpublished work, ‘Bosa-bosa, hilly-billy’? You will like it.

NFP:

Thanks. Wish you had gone beyond the bellies, though. I guess the collab in 2007 is on unless purple haze overtakes…

Fahadist:

‘We’ have explained the last part in our post :)

Urstruly:

[please leave us in the dark ages. Thank you very much.]

You’re welcome.

Ballukhan:

Thanks.

Nargileh:

Hmmm…just when I had lost all hope!

PS: Ilogs don’t get stars since those writing them have stars in their eyes anyway. I think people are rating their peers (and since there is a wide chasm between my mental and chronological ages, I have no peers…)

And while on the subject…I will be posting one ilog on those who did not make it here ;)

Regards,
FV

Farzana,
I loved it--very creatively written. And the message about consumption culture that the dialogue provides is also very insightful. Phamaceutical companies feed on human insecurity.


P.S. I think your I-log should have more stars than mine! But I mentioned that already in my I-log. :)


Kaurasach,
Those are stereotypes of feminists as well as feminism, that you`ve listed. I`ve heard them so many times and mostly from people who never actually took a gender-studies class--and rely on other people`s def. of feminism. If you listened to them, you`d think feminism is some sinister sex-change operation--a scheme to convert women to men--not a social movement to get equal pay, or equal rights.


If you look up the dictionary.com defintion, you will find it to be closer to your own beliefs. Ironic huh?

FV

``Who decides on the laws of nature? It ought to be nature and feminists are doing a fine job of being ‘natural’...........``

Excellent stuff. Loved every bit of it.

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#26: It seems that you have been completely taken over by the mystery of whirling. I hope it will save you from developing the horrific descriptions highlighted in the 1st para. Are you done with your freedom of expression or you have more to share? I ask since you forgot ``a period`` at the end of your dervae`sha`na post.

I resent the way, it is being fed to the Western woman, quite persistently, if I might add, that their bodies are nothing but a heap of shame. They are being brainwashed to belive that the natural functions like pregnancy and menstruation have turned into some kind of horrible gentic disease or worst an epidemic from which women have no escape. And worst, man has something to do with it.

ugghh

The other day I watched the TV serial `Sex and the City` for the first and last time, just to see what the fuss was all about. It sank my heart. It was pathetic to see post-menupausal women spending most of their waking hours in search for a Penis of the Day like horney teenagers. As they found one supposedly, they would hang their victory flag on that mast and then next thing they would do is to ravage it. And then they would cry like a promiscuous child who loses her virginity for the first time.

Ughhh

A balanced voice, apart from these extremities like VM or SatCity or probably this latest attrocity by Ensler, is nowhere to be heard. If this is Western ideal of woman`s emancipation and empowerment through her enlightenment then please leave us in the dark ages. Thank you very much

Farzana,
Excellent start. The bellies part. Wished I`d come up with that.

rgds,
NfP

no its the women who confuse me... ALL OF THEM :P

We are still perplexed by the last part of your piece... the untouched. really confuses us :P

#22: Thank you for summarizing for those of us who have not had the opportunity to skim through the entire article. I have not gone past the first paragraph, containing certain horrific details and touching a very sensitive topic. It seems that you have read the article in its entirety. It`s quite generous of you to highlight certain attributes in your enlightening synopsis and then confess where you stand.

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It`s like cheap porn from a pseudo-intellectual to wannabe intellectuals who will feel no titillation and understand less yet oooh and aaah just to show all the other clueless idiots that they are both liberal AND intellectual.

Crap.

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````And how do you like me?``

``Untouched,`` she said. ``


Pretty good dialogue. I wonder why people appreciate the monologues.

Thanks to the ‘silent’ readers and to those here who have their own take on the subject : HP, M.B.Z.Isphahani…

#10 by Nadia_Zehra:

I am glad you saw this ‘erotically’, since I did not try to make it so. However, the last thing I had in mind was to market Viagra. On the contrary I have raised questions about its role.

#12 by jang:

Osama…is it you?

#13 by kaurasach:

[about feminists,
they are miserable wretches who went against the laws of nature -]

What laws of nature? Feminists are women doing what women do best – making men of men and helping them outgrow the boy stage. Who decides on the laws of nature? It ought to be nature and feminists are doing a fine job of being ‘natural’.

[women`s sexuality can be discussed (i`m all for it) without resorting to such crap...frankly, these `dramas` are not funny, on the contrary, kill sex drive.]

I know this is a response to my post, so the discussion is beyond this article. Women will choose to discuss sexuality in the manner they deem fit, and there are different ways. The problem is that those untutored in what feminism has entailed down the years do not quite get it. Only because Greer outgrew a certain realm of feminism, they assume she was a traitor to the cause. It was her choice. So no two feminists are necessarily alike and the ‘dramas’ are not meant to be funny anyway.

Re. killing sex drive…my sympathies are with insecure men. The fact is that feminism and the Pill have given freedom to men as well. The social and economic independence of women has made a huge difference to the lives of women and as a consequence to the lives of men. And women who know about their sexual desires and can voice them are hardly likely to kill anyone’s sex drive.

Anyway, it is obvious that calling feminists wretches and their work crap etc without any supporting arguments speaks for itself. And to think that terms I have used to discuss something are thrown at women’s faces on this forum for no purpose at all.

#15 by Subroto:

Not being defensive, just accepting that I was ahead of my time when I wrote it first and behind times now! I thought people Down Under would like this one:) Btw, saw Branson alighting from a Virgin aircraft in Australia with the butts of two models in the background…

#16 by ZahraJ:

Psychologists have indeed talked about men and their feeling of ‘otherness’ re. pregnant women, so maybe deep down there is this desire…and then there is the theory about little boys spending their childhood years wondering about the mother’s missing penis.

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[Men have beer bellies (hey matey, a pint of lager), laughing bellies (ho, ho, ho, I can give you such a good time with my windbag jokes), Buddha bellies (been sittin’ and meditatin’, hon), born-to-rule bellies (ah, eff it, the Romans had ’em and they could fiddle).]

And that is unpleasant, ughhhhhhh and unacceptable! Next we will read about the complications of pregnancy amongst men. And, finally, men will start delivering babies. Farzana, thanks for providing some food for thought.

Farzana ``I said, I accept responsibility that it may not work for some today``
At least you have the courage to write what you think. So no need to be defensive, keep on writing - whether we like it or not ;-)

hmmm...not much to say about this topic except that al - Nafzawi summed it all up in his The Perfumed Garden of Earthy Delights.

Here are some of the terms for the vagina in there:

Sundry Names Given to the Sexual Organs of Women

Farzana:
I found this article quite enigmatic in the sense it has exposed the marketing feature of a product and you have advertised it like a salesperson of a third world country. A very long and adequate ad just like when we import a new Toyota Corolla number or an IBM PC/Laptop or accessory. But still the erotic piece of fiction captures the targeted audience like the promotion of Condemns and stuff like that.
But Viagra is a drug that has many side effects when taken without preknowledge of existing sexual characteristics of a person. You have not mentioned the age/quantity which are critical for such type of medicines. And could it occur lethal under some circumstances and what could be causes of those. There are many instances where it had been banned for deadly symptoms and soreness it gave to users. Unlike many sex arousing ornaments it needed to have be prescribed because in unnecessary usage it could cause damages to other components of body and a person could be deprived of the pleasure he wanted to buy and live with. As it doesn’t adds to pleasures manually but it runs in the blood and stimulates the functions associate to satisfaction.
However I must admit that I was lost in stronghold of erotic magnetization of a new brand which was written like an intercourse.
Cheers,

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NFP..is that you?

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“Viagra is also a sceptic.”

I guess this is little too much tongue-in-cheek for people.
My attempt. I am not in FV’s league but…

“How do you find out you are fat?”
“while taking shower, you look down and can’t see ..it”

Viagra: ``I don`t know why you wear a bra; you`ve got nothing to put in it.``

Vagina: ``You wear pants, don`t you?``


Just to make this a little easy for the puritans.

My first wife: “you are leaving me for a younger woman!”
Me: “Hmmm.”

My second wife: “you are leaving me for a younger woman!”
Me: “Hmmmmm!”

Excessive drinking and smoking takes its toll. Triple bypass takes away all the fun. A couple of months after the bypass…

My Third wife: “Ha! You can’t leave me!”
They announced Viagra breakthrough on tv right that moment!

…and Viagra is sceptic.

Okay, I accept responsibility that what worked (and it did) 7-8 years ago may not work now. VM has been translated and performed all over the world, Viagra jokes have done the rounds umpteen times. Yet, there are a few questions in here that I maintain are relevant (not necessarily right); this piece was not intended for laughs...there is no attempt at humour. But, as I said, I accept responsibility that it may not work for some today.
- - -
nasahsaab:

Aap se yeh umeed nahin thi...
- - -
fahadist:

Do not generalise. Why shudl all women pay for my sins??
- - -
mubakr:

You will never hear me say that I write only for myself (I may say I write only what I wish to write about, but that is different). I have begun this post with honesty; hope you will appreciate it. And there is no symbolism, it is pretty straightforward.

PS: This didn`t move you...and here another interactor has been crying after even contemplating suicide :)
- - -
kaurasach:

You are entitled to your personal views about me...I do not respond to those.

But I do object to your statement even in a general context: ``the so called feminists have dissected sex and love in a vulgar manner....nothing is comical about such dramas. they want to add porn to their failed revolution to make it attractive. the gimmick may attract fleeting attention at best.``

Why is it that when women/feminists dissect sexual matters, it is deemed to be vulgar? Whatever be my issues with VM, the fact is that after it was staged in Mumbai a big theatre personality like Alyque Padamsee felt the need to write a play as a rejoinder. `The Penis Dialogues` just did not work. Had the revolution failed (btw, it is no more a revolution, but a way of life) men would not have been so insecure that they would need to respond to a harmless part of the body being discussed.

It is strange that feminism, which essentially had the task of getting women to come out of their shells to begin with, would resort to porn to attract those who had for years been subjugated. And today`s woman knows pretty much what she wants, even if she may not always get it. So why would she even fleetingly be attracted to porn?

When one talks about the vagina one mentions the word and all that goes with it. Tent and pole references go well in Hindi film songs, if that is your scene; I do not believe in beating about the bush.

- - -
Someone asked elsewhere about the last two lines and what they meant...I got Vagina to say `untouched` as a dig against the premium placed on female virginity.

one of those articles that didnt move me!

i dont think a writer of calibre of FV couldnt do a better job. disappointing symbolism and broken flow made it a boring reading. i am expecting a reaction that ``i do it for myself`` :) and it`s become quite famous these days. musical bands say that we do our music for our own self. right. then why produce cds and cassettes. keep doing the jammin sessions and garage tunes...AND if that`s the answer...then such writings better be in the diary!

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a course of sildenafil for her mistress owner could/should have cut short the dialogue.......

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Why do women ahve to be so confusing!!???