The Falcon’s Hearth
Umair Raja December 22, 2004
#71 Posted by Saminasha on December 27, 2004 11:06:59 am
Sailing Alone Around the Room by Billy Collins
excerpt from Collins` The History Teacher
Trying to protect his students`
innocence
he told them the Ice Age was really
just
the Chilly Age, a period of a million
years
when everyone had to wear
sweaters.
And the Stone Age became the
Gravel Age,
named after the long driveways of
the time.
The Spanish Inquisition was
nothing more
than an outbreak of questions such
as
``How far is it from here to
Madrid?
``What do you call the matador`s
hat?``
excerpt from Collins` The History Teacher
Trying to protect his students`
innocence
he told them the Ice Age was really
just
the Chilly Age, a period of a million
years
when everyone had to wear
sweaters.
And the Stone Age became the
Gravel Age,
named after the long driveways of
the time.
The Spanish Inquisition was
nothing more
than an outbreak of questions such
as
``How far is it from here to
Madrid?
``What do you call the matador`s
hat?``
reply to this interact
write a new interact
add to favorites
flag objectionable content
#70 Posted by Saminasha on December 27, 2004 11:06:50 am
Sailing Alone Around the Room by Billy Collins
excerpt from Collins` The History Teacher
Trying to protect his students`
innocence
he told them the Ice Age was really
just
the Chilly Age, a period of a million
years
when everyone had to wear
sweaters.
And the Stone Age became the
Gravel Age,
named after the long driveways of
the time.
The Spanish Inquisition was
nothing more
than an outbreak of questions such
as
``How far is it from here to
Madrid?
``What do you call the matador`s
hat?``
excerpt from Collins` The History Teacher
Trying to protect his students`
innocence
he told them the Ice Age was really
just
the Chilly Age, a period of a million
years
when everyone had to wear
sweaters.
And the Stone Age became the
Gravel Age,
named after the long driveways of
the time.
The Spanish Inquisition was
nothing more
than an outbreak of questions such
as
``How far is it from here to
Madrid?
``What do you call the matador`s
hat?``
#69 Posted by Saminasha on December 27, 2004 11:06:39 am
Sailing Alone Around the Room by Billy Collins
excerpt from Collins` The History Teacher
Trying to protect his students`
innocence
he told them the Ice Age was really
just
the Chilly Age, a period of a million
years
when everyone had to wear
sweaters.
And the Stone Age became the
Gravel Age,
named after the long driveways of
the time.
The Spanish Inquisition was
nothing more
than an outbreak of questions such
as
``How far is it from here to
Madrid?
``What do you call the matador`s
hat?``
excerpt from Collins` The History Teacher
Trying to protect his students`
innocence
he told them the Ice Age was really
just
the Chilly Age, a period of a million
years
when everyone had to wear
sweaters.
And the Stone Age became the
Gravel Age,
named after the long driveways of
the time.
The Spanish Inquisition was
nothing more
than an outbreak of questions such
as
``How far is it from here to
Madrid?
``What do you call the matador`s
hat?``
#68 Posted by Romair on December 27, 2004 11:02:19 am
hamidm #61: ``you need to get over the fact that samina, who is a professional, did not go ga-ga over your poetry ........ of course her opinion counts a lot - much more than mine, a disorented hacker, or echoboom`s, who is a raving ideologue..........``
I don`t think I can agree. You are greatly underselling yourself. Being an ideologue or a disoriented hacker has nothing to do with writing. I don`t have much time for much of your Vanilla-Ice ramblings on the greatness of the USA and the ugliness of all things Muslim. But I still think you are a good writer, as far as words go. An order of magnitude better than Saminashah, temporal (and me). Seriously speaking.
The fact that you cannot throw around fancy terms and famous names is neither here nor there. That just shows that you are not a good reader. It has nothing to do with writing. And the fact that you are willing to consider yourself not worthy enough to be a genuine critic is even better.
``and, if i were you, i would be disappointed too because her approval would have been reassuring to an aspiring writer and poet ............................ but you don`t have to give up writing just because she gave you a c - go knock yourself out and write another poem ! ``
I have no such desires, nor intentions. It has nothing to do with what anyone writes about what I have written. The whole debate started out between me and temporal (who actually thought what I had written was good) . I challenged him on that.
As I said earlier, I am myself accepting the fact that I am not a writer, nor a critic. What I am trying to point out that various other individuals aren`t, either. People are too quick to give advice on writing, on this site, as if they are themselves quite good at it. This can do a lot of harm. I am just challenging the few such individuals to describe their credentials. Why do they consider themselves so competent? What have they written? Are they critically acclaimed? Do they have a track record in the writing industry? Or they just filled with hot air?
Unfortunately, instead of publishing their own credentials (or accepting they don`t have any), I have been accused of:
- consdering irrelevant the ``struggle of half of our population``
- finding difficulty in living, ``in the clamorous and demanding world of ideas``
- dismissing, ``the arts,`` all together
- Telling myself that I am, ``more relevant to it than its women writers``
All of this just because, I challenged the credentials of some individuals. When all they had to do was to point me to their critically acclaimed published work.
I work as a, ``professional critic of software,`` so to speak. My company crtiques in detail, the software written by our clients. When I go to get a contract, my clients ask me for my credentials, i.e. what expertise and right do I have to critique how their engineers write software? I don`t throw around fancy names, like Bill Gates or Bill Joy and quote their speeches. Nor do I declare my clients to be, ``enemies of half of mankind.`` Nor do I throw my college degrees at their faces. If I did that, they would think I was filled with hot air.
What do I do? I show them critically accliaimed work that I have done before. References from previous clients. Articles and ideas that have been accepted by various IT magazines. Return on Investments by other companies in the industry, who have followed our instructions. Published manuals that we have written for previous clients.
This is how, at least in my opinion, one becomes a critic.
I don`t think I can agree. You are greatly underselling yourself. Being an ideologue or a disoriented hacker has nothing to do with writing. I don`t have much time for much of your Vanilla-Ice ramblings on the greatness of the USA and the ugliness of all things Muslim. But I still think you are a good writer, as far as words go. An order of magnitude better than Saminashah, temporal (and me). Seriously speaking.
The fact that you cannot throw around fancy terms and famous names is neither here nor there. That just shows that you are not a good reader. It has nothing to do with writing. And the fact that you are willing to consider yourself not worthy enough to be a genuine critic is even better.
``and, if i were you, i would be disappointed too because her approval would have been reassuring to an aspiring writer and poet ............................ but you don`t have to give up writing just because she gave you a c - go knock yourself out and write another poem ! ``
I have no such desires, nor intentions. It has nothing to do with what anyone writes about what I have written. The whole debate started out between me and temporal (who actually thought what I had written was good) . I challenged him on that.
As I said earlier, I am myself accepting the fact that I am not a writer, nor a critic. What I am trying to point out that various other individuals aren`t, either. People are too quick to give advice on writing, on this site, as if they are themselves quite good at it. This can do a lot of harm. I am just challenging the few such individuals to describe their credentials. Why do they consider themselves so competent? What have they written? Are they critically acclaimed? Do they have a track record in the writing industry? Or they just filled with hot air?
Unfortunately, instead of publishing their own credentials (or accepting they don`t have any), I have been accused of:
- consdering irrelevant the ``struggle of half of our population``
- finding difficulty in living, ``in the clamorous and demanding world of ideas``
- dismissing, ``the arts,`` all together
- Telling myself that I am, ``more relevant to it than its women writers``
All of this just because, I challenged the credentials of some individuals. When all they had to do was to point me to their critically acclaimed published work.
I work as a, ``professional critic of software,`` so to speak. My company crtiques in detail, the software written by our clients. When I go to get a contract, my clients ask me for my credentials, i.e. what expertise and right do I have to critique how their engineers write software? I don`t throw around fancy names, like Bill Gates or Bill Joy and quote their speeches. Nor do I declare my clients to be, ``enemies of half of mankind.`` Nor do I throw my college degrees at their faces. If I did that, they would think I was filled with hot air.
What do I do? I show them critically accliaimed work that I have done before. References from previous clients. Articles and ideas that have been accepted by various IT magazines. Return on Investments by other companies in the industry, who have followed our instructions. Published manuals that we have written for previous clients.
This is how, at least in my opinion, one becomes a critic.
#67 Posted by Saminasha on December 27, 2004 10:57:15 am
Hamid Mian,
You actually bought the new Tom Wolfe??
Forgetfulness
The name of the author is the first to go
followed obediently by the title, the plot,
the heartbreaking conclusion, the entire novel
which suddenly becomes one you have never read, never
even heard of,
as if, one by one, the memories you used to harbor
decided to retire to the southern hemisphere of the brain,
to a little fishing village where there are no phones.
Long ago you kissed the nine Muses goodbye
and watched the quadratic equation pack its bag,
and even now as you memorize the order of the planets,
something else is slipping away, a state flower perhaps,
the address of an uncle, the capital of Paraguay.
Whatever it is you are struggling to remember
it is not poised on the tip of your tongue,
not even lurking in some obscure corner of your spleen.
It has floated away down a dark mythological river
whose name begins with an L as far as you can recall,
well on your own way to oblivion where you will join those
who have even forgotten how to swim and how to ride a
bicycle.
No wonder you rise in the middle of the night
to look up the date of a famous battle in a book on war.
No wonder the moon in the window seems to have drifted
out of a love poem that you used to know by heart.
--Billy Collins
You actually bought the new Tom Wolfe??
Forgetfulness
The name of the author is the first to go
followed obediently by the title, the plot,
the heartbreaking conclusion, the entire novel
which suddenly becomes one you have never read, never
even heard of,
as if, one by one, the memories you used to harbor
decided to retire to the southern hemisphere of the brain,
to a little fishing village where there are no phones.
Long ago you kissed the nine Muses goodbye
and watched the quadratic equation pack its bag,
and even now as you memorize the order of the planets,
something else is slipping away, a state flower perhaps,
the address of an uncle, the capital of Paraguay.
Whatever it is you are struggling to remember
it is not poised on the tip of your tongue,
not even lurking in some obscure corner of your spleen.
It has floated away down a dark mythological river
whose name begins with an L as far as you can recall,
well on your own way to oblivion where you will join those
who have even forgotten how to swim and how to ride a
bicycle.
No wonder you rise in the middle of the night
to look up the date of a famous battle in a book on war.
No wonder the moon in the window seems to have drifted
out of a love poem that you used to know by heart.
--Billy Collins
#66 Posted by Saminasha on December 27, 2004 10:49:15 am
Romair Sahib,
I will be submitting a piece to Chowk shortly. And it will be dedicated to YOU.
Take care, and keep writing!
I will be submitting a piece to Chowk shortly. And it will be dedicated to YOU.
Take care, and keep writing!
#65 Posted by Saminasha on December 27, 2004 10:41:01 am
Abey Hamid Mian, stop...I`m trying to take my opinions elsewhere...btw, have you looked at the Sex and the Ummah section on www.wakeupmuslim.com? Some good women writers there...
#64 Posted by Romair on December 27, 2004 10:31:35 am
Saminashah #59: ``I feel for you, really I do. It must be hard having to live in the clamorous and demanding world of ideas.``
There is no need to feel for me. My intention is not to gain your sympathy, nor your approval. Quite the opposite. My intention is to ensure that people back their views with substance and content, i.e. they are not fake. And if my arguments have ensured that the next time self-proclaimed literatis will, at least, think twice before claiming expertise than perhaps I have achieved something.
You are exhibiting the classic characteristics of, ``self-proclaimed`` experts. They are bent in critiquing others, yet can never tolerate it, when their own (lack of credentials) is challenged. Instead, you have tried to portray me as someone who is against, ``half the population,`` and someone who is living in a narrow world. You would have been much better off, by just presenting your credentials. After which the argument would be finished.
``And it must be pretty easy to dismiss the arts while telling yourself you are more relevant to it than its women writers.``
Do you define the arts? Of course, not. Does dismissing you equate to dismissing the arts, all together? You have a very high opinion of yourself, if you think dismissing you as a writer or critic equates to dismissing the arts, all together. It is such opinions that I am against and arguing against.
You seem to have, thus, completely missed the point. As I have stated many times before, I appreciate and admire the arts (hopefully this will be the last time I will have to state this). I just don`t like self-proclaimed, ``artists`` and, ``critics.`` I am not a writer. Nor am I a critic. But neither are you a writer, nor a critic. Neither is temporal. Yet for some reason, I get the feeling that both of you think yourselves to be one. Why?
You keep comparing my dismissing your views, with my dismissing, ``the arts`` all together. How did you come up with this association? And dismissing women writers. This is despite the fact that I have gone on and on about people like Parveen Shakir and Roy. I just don`t consider you a Parveen Shakri and I don`t consider Suleri a Roy. Nor do an overwhleming amount of the genuine critics.
All I am asking you and a few others to do is to not consider yourselves experts on the subject, and start giving out incorrect advice. You will lead people down the wrong path. Establish your credibility first. And do that by writing regularly material which is much better than what everyone else writes. Get critically acclaimed. Then critique to your heart`s desire. But kindly do not do so by mentioning names of people, far more accomplished in arts than you (or I), and something associaiting yourself with them, and then throwing out some fancy terms, and walla, you are a critic.
So far I have seen nothing but fancy words from you. A better approach would be to write something and rely on that to establish yourself...........If you have any published and/or critically acclaimed work of your own, could you kindly point me to it (ilogs don`t count). I have none, which is why I consider my writings as the threshold of incompetence.
And kindly point me to your work. And not the fact that you have read the work of others. Anyone can read. Very few can write.........
There is no need to feel for me. My intention is not to gain your sympathy, nor your approval. Quite the opposite. My intention is to ensure that people back their views with substance and content, i.e. they are not fake. And if my arguments have ensured that the next time self-proclaimed literatis will, at least, think twice before claiming expertise than perhaps I have achieved something.
You are exhibiting the classic characteristics of, ``self-proclaimed`` experts. They are bent in critiquing others, yet can never tolerate it, when their own (lack of credentials) is challenged. Instead, you have tried to portray me as someone who is against, ``half the population,`` and someone who is living in a narrow world. You would have been much better off, by just presenting your credentials. After which the argument would be finished.
``And it must be pretty easy to dismiss the arts while telling yourself you are more relevant to it than its women writers.``
Do you define the arts? Of course, not. Does dismissing you equate to dismissing the arts, all together? You have a very high opinion of yourself, if you think dismissing you as a writer or critic equates to dismissing the arts, all together. It is such opinions that I am against and arguing against.
You seem to have, thus, completely missed the point. As I have stated many times before, I appreciate and admire the arts (hopefully this will be the last time I will have to state this). I just don`t like self-proclaimed, ``artists`` and, ``critics.`` I am not a writer. Nor am I a critic. But neither are you a writer, nor a critic. Neither is temporal. Yet for some reason, I get the feeling that both of you think yourselves to be one. Why?
You keep comparing my dismissing your views, with my dismissing, ``the arts`` all together. How did you come up with this association? And dismissing women writers. This is despite the fact that I have gone on and on about people like Parveen Shakir and Roy. I just don`t consider you a Parveen Shakri and I don`t consider Suleri a Roy. Nor do an overwhleming amount of the genuine critics.
All I am asking you and a few others to do is to not consider yourselves experts on the subject, and start giving out incorrect advice. You will lead people down the wrong path. Establish your credibility first. And do that by writing regularly material which is much better than what everyone else writes. Get critically acclaimed. Then critique to your heart`s desire. But kindly do not do so by mentioning names of people, far more accomplished in arts than you (or I), and something associaiting yourself with them, and then throwing out some fancy terms, and walla, you are a critic.
So far I have seen nothing but fancy words from you. A better approach would be to write something and rely on that to establish yourself...........If you have any published and/or critically acclaimed work of your own, could you kindly point me to it (ilogs don`t count). I have none, which is why I consider my writings as the threshold of incompetence.
And kindly point me to your work. And not the fact that you have read the work of others. Anyone can read. Very few can write.........
#63 Posted by hamidm2 on December 27, 2004 9:46:02 am
romair mian,
(cc. samina)
...... c`mon, i really think you are being silly and rather obstinate ........... you need to get over the fact that samina, who is a professional, did not go ga-ga over your poetry ........ of course her opinion counts a lot - much more than mine, a disorented hacker, or echoboom`s, who is a raving ideologue.......... and, if i were you, i would be disappointed too because her approval would have been reassuring to an aspiring writer and poet .............. but you don`t have to give up writing just because she gave you a c - go knock yourself out and write another poem !
...........and just because a book is on the best seller list or is in stock at barnes and nobel doesn`t mean that it is any good .......... just look at the amazon best seller list - the #1 seller is `harry potter` and the top 20 includes khalid hoseini`s `kite runner` which is not a whole lot different than any john grisham book; tom wolfe`s ``charlotte simmon`s`` - i bought it because i thought i would find out what is going on in college, but instead got what a senile 70 year old man thinks is going on in college ( i could have just asked my daughter and saved twelve bucks)!; `the da vinci code` - a cheap thriller which i skimmed through in less than four hours (i went to college and don`t live in a trailer park!); and oh yes, mitch albom`s ``five people you meet in heaven`` is at number eight - i read his other stupid book ``conversations with a dying idiot`` and that was enough for me ........... the man is a con artist playing on the sentiments of little old ladies and terminal patients - i would rather read the `left behind` books or maulana maudoodi`s tafseer!
............. so what does that tell you ? .......... you can write crap and still sell a lot of books........... sara suleri`s book is better than any of the ones i have mentioned above but it is ranked #180,685 ...........the god of small things is ranked #1,372, rushdie`s `midnight children is ranked` #2,134 and shakespeare is ranked #3,213 ........... and my personal favourite, carlin, is ranked at #54) ......... it doesn`t surprise me because i always knew carlin was better than shakespeare ! ...........
.......... so get a grip on yourself and go out and write something .......... if mitch albom can do it, so can you .......................
(cc. samina)
...... c`mon, i really think you are being silly and rather obstinate ........... you need to get over the fact that samina, who is a professional, did not go ga-ga over your poetry ........ of course her opinion counts a lot - much more than mine, a disorented hacker, or echoboom`s, who is a raving ideologue.......... and, if i were you, i would be disappointed too because her approval would have been reassuring to an aspiring writer and poet .............. but you don`t have to give up writing just because she gave you a c - go knock yourself out and write another poem !
...........and just because a book is on the best seller list or is in stock at barnes and nobel doesn`t mean that it is any good .......... just look at the amazon best seller list - the #1 seller is `harry potter` and the top 20 includes khalid hoseini`s `kite runner` which is not a whole lot different than any john grisham book; tom wolfe`s ``charlotte simmon`s`` - i bought it because i thought i would find out what is going on in college, but instead got what a senile 70 year old man thinks is going on in college ( i could have just asked my daughter and saved twelve bucks)!; `the da vinci code` - a cheap thriller which i skimmed through in less than four hours (i went to college and don`t live in a trailer park!); and oh yes, mitch albom`s ``five people you meet in heaven`` is at number eight - i read his other stupid book ``conversations with a dying idiot`` and that was enough for me ........... the man is a con artist playing on the sentiments of little old ladies and terminal patients - i would rather read the `left behind` books or maulana maudoodi`s tafseer!
............. so what does that tell you ? .......... you can write crap and still sell a lot of books........... sara suleri`s book is better than any of the ones i have mentioned above but it is ranked #180,685 ...........the god of small things is ranked #1,372, rushdie`s `midnight children is ranked` #2,134 and shakespeare is ranked #3,213 ........... and my personal favourite, carlin, is ranked at #54) ......... it doesn`t surprise me because i always knew carlin was better than shakespeare ! ...........
.......... so get a grip on yourself and go out and write something .......... if mitch albom can do it, so can you .......................
#62 Posted by hamidm2 on December 27, 2004 9:46:02 am
temporal mian,
... i liked that .... billy collinish, no? ..... samina bibi owes me $10.46
...... stay warm and have a great new year
... i liked that .... billy collinish, no? ..... samina bibi owes me $10.46
...... stay warm and have a great new year
#61 Posted by echoboom on December 27, 2004 9:46:02 am
One of my favourite piece of poetry ( of last half century or so Knowledge is never ancient or modern; humans are: Always refrain from using the word ``modern`` in this context because the ``critiquer`` by using such verbosity comically attempts to don the mantle of a peacock).
It is GOOD poetry because of its content, Style & format-wise and otherwise, it is nothing but a ranting , raving, and rambling.
``Dil sey jo baat...``
[The SCREAM that gets attention
Never needs a nine-one-one]--Echoboom.
Just `spilled` it.
America I`ve given you all and now I`m nothing.
America two dollars and twenty-seven cents January 17, 1956.
I can`t stand my own mind.
America when will we end the human war?
Go fcuk yourself with your atom bomb
I don`t feel good don`t bother me.
I won`t write my poem till I`m in my right mind.
America when will you be angelic?
When will you take off your clothes?
When will you look at yourself through the grave?
When will you be worthy of your million Trotskyites?
America why are your libraries full of tears?
America when will you send your eggs to India?
I`m sick of your insane demands.
When can I go into the supermarket and buy what I need with my good looks?
America after all it is you and I who are perfect not the next world.
Your machinery is too much for me.
You made me want to be a saint.
There must be some other way to settle this argument.
Burroughs is in Tangiers I don`t think he`ll come back it`s sinister.
Are you being sinister or is this some form of practical joke?
I`m trying to come to the point.
I refuse to give up my obsession.
America stop pushing I know what I`m doing.
America the plum blossoms are falling.
I haven`t read the newspapers for months, everyday somebody goes on trial for
murder.
America I feel sentimental about the Wobblies.
America I used to be a communist when I was a kid and I`m not sorry.
I smoke marijuana every chance I get.
I sit in my house for days on end and stare at the roses in the closet.
When I go to Chinatown I get drunk and never get laid.
My mind is made up there`s going to be trouble.
You should have seen me reading Marx.
My psychoanalyst thinks I`m perfectly right.
I won`t say the Lord`s Prayer.
I have mystical visions and cosmic vibrations.
America I still haven`t told you what you did to Uncle Max after he came over
from Russia.
I`m addressing you.
Are you going to let our emotional life be run by Time Magazine?
I`m obsessed by Time Magazine.
I read it every week.
Its cover stares at me every time I slink past the corner candystore.
I read it in the basement of the Berkeley Public Library.
It`s always telling me about responsibility. Businessmen are serious. Movie
producers are serious. Everybody`s serious but me.
It occurs to me that I am America.
I am talking to myself again.
Asia is rising against me.
I haven`t got a chinaman`s chance.
I`d better consider my national resources.
My national resources consist of two joints of marijuana millions of genitals
an unpublishable private literature that goes 1400 miles and hour and
twentyfivethousand mental institutions.
I say nothing about my prisons nor the millions of underpriviliged who live in
my flowerpots under the light of five hundred suns.
I have abolished the whorehouses of France, Tangiers is the next to go.
My ambition is to be President despite the fact that I`m a Catholic.
America how can I write a holy litany in your silly mood?
I will continue like Henry Ford my strophes are as individual as his
automobiles more so they`re all different sexes
America I will sell you strophes $2500 apiece $500 down on your old strophe
America free Tom Mooney
America save the Spanish Loyalists
America Sacco & Vanzetti must not die
America I am the Scottsboro boys.
America when I was seven momma took me to Communist Cell meetings they
sold us garbanzos a handful per ticket a ticket costs a nickel and the
speeches were free everybody was angelic and sentimental about the
workers it was all so sincere you have no idea what a good thing the party
was in 1935 Scott Nearing was a grand old man a real mensch Mother
Bloor made me cry I once saw Israel Amter plain. Everybody must have
been a spy.
America you don`re really want to go to war.
America it`s them bad Russians.
Them Russians them Russians and them Chinamen. And them Russians.
The Russia wants to eat us alive. The Russia`s power mad. She wants to take
our cars from out our garages.
Her wants to grab Chicago. Her needs a Red Reader`s Digest. her wants our
auto plants in Siberia. Him big bureaucracy running our fillingstations.
That no good. Ugh. Him makes Indians learn read. Him need big black niggers.
Hah. Her make us all work sixteen hours a day. Help.
America this is quite serious.
America this is the impression I get from looking in the television set.
America is this correct?
I`d better get right down to the job.
It`s true I don`t want to join the Army or turn lathes in precision parts
factories, I`m nearsighted and psychopathic anyway.
America I`m putting my queer shoulder to the wheel.
Alan Ginsberg
It is GOOD poetry because of its content, Style & format-wise and otherwise, it is nothing but a ranting , raving, and rambling.
``Dil sey jo baat...``
[The SCREAM that gets attention
Never needs a nine-one-one]--Echoboom.
Just `spilled` it.
America I`ve given you all and now I`m nothing.
America two dollars and twenty-seven cents January 17, 1956.
I can`t stand my own mind.
America when will we end the human war?
Go fcuk yourself with your atom bomb
I don`t feel good don`t bother me.
I won`t write my poem till I`m in my right mind.
America when will you be angelic?
When will you take off your clothes?
When will you look at yourself through the grave?
When will you be worthy of your million Trotskyites?
America why are your libraries full of tears?
America when will you send your eggs to India?
I`m sick of your insane demands.
When can I go into the supermarket and buy what I need with my good looks?
America after all it is you and I who are perfect not the next world.
Your machinery is too much for me.
You made me want to be a saint.
There must be some other way to settle this argument.
Burroughs is in Tangiers I don`t think he`ll come back it`s sinister.
Are you being sinister or is this some form of practical joke?
I`m trying to come to the point.
I refuse to give up my obsession.
America stop pushing I know what I`m doing.
America the plum blossoms are falling.
I haven`t read the newspapers for months, everyday somebody goes on trial for
murder.
America I feel sentimental about the Wobblies.
America I used to be a communist when I was a kid and I`m not sorry.
I smoke marijuana every chance I get.
I sit in my house for days on end and stare at the roses in the closet.
When I go to Chinatown I get drunk and never get laid.
My mind is made up there`s going to be trouble.
You should have seen me reading Marx.
My psychoanalyst thinks I`m perfectly right.
I won`t say the Lord`s Prayer.
I have mystical visions and cosmic vibrations.
America I still haven`t told you what you did to Uncle Max after he came over
from Russia.
I`m addressing you.
Are you going to let our emotional life be run by Time Magazine?
I`m obsessed by Time Magazine.
I read it every week.
Its cover stares at me every time I slink past the corner candystore.
I read it in the basement of the Berkeley Public Library.
It`s always telling me about responsibility. Businessmen are serious. Movie
producers are serious. Everybody`s serious but me.
It occurs to me that I am America.
I am talking to myself again.
Asia is rising against me.
I haven`t got a chinaman`s chance.
I`d better consider my national resources.
My national resources consist of two joints of marijuana millions of genitals
an unpublishable private literature that goes 1400 miles and hour and
twentyfivethousand mental institutions.
I say nothing about my prisons nor the millions of underpriviliged who live in
my flowerpots under the light of five hundred suns.
I have abolished the whorehouses of France, Tangiers is the next to go.
My ambition is to be President despite the fact that I`m a Catholic.
America how can I write a holy litany in your silly mood?
I will continue like Henry Ford my strophes are as individual as his
automobiles more so they`re all different sexes
America I will sell you strophes $2500 apiece $500 down on your old strophe
America free Tom Mooney
America save the Spanish Loyalists
America Sacco & Vanzetti must not die
America I am the Scottsboro boys.
America when I was seven momma took me to Communist Cell meetings they
sold us garbanzos a handful per ticket a ticket costs a nickel and the
speeches were free everybody was angelic and sentimental about the
workers it was all so sincere you have no idea what a good thing the party
was in 1935 Scott Nearing was a grand old man a real mensch Mother
Bloor made me cry I once saw Israel Amter plain. Everybody must have
been a spy.
America you don`re really want to go to war.
America it`s them bad Russians.
Them Russians them Russians and them Chinamen. And them Russians.
The Russia wants to eat us alive. The Russia`s power mad. She wants to take
our cars from out our garages.
Her wants to grab Chicago. Her needs a Red Reader`s Digest. her wants our
auto plants in Siberia. Him big bureaucracy running our fillingstations.
That no good. Ugh. Him makes Indians learn read. Him need big black niggers.
Hah. Her make us all work sixteen hours a day. Help.
America this is quite serious.
America this is the impression I get from looking in the television set.
America is this correct?
I`d better get right down to the job.
It`s true I don`t want to join the Army or turn lathes in precision parts
factories, I`m nearsighted and psychopathic anyway.
America I`m putting my queer shoulder to the wheel.
Alan Ginsberg
#60 Posted by temporal on December 27, 2004 8:30:42 am
hamidm and sammi
* * *
Romair: #25
(still talking s l o w l y)
sometimes less is more
despite many posts and name droppings
you still know the price
but know not the value
you do not have anything
to make me an offer or deal
but
this is what I will
voluntarily concede
I will refrain from commenting
on your creative submissions
with others
time and interest permitting
i will interact as before
seasons greetings
t
* * *
Romair: #25
(still talking s l o w l y)
sometimes less is more
despite many posts and name droppings
you still know the price
but know not the value
you do not have anything
to make me an offer or deal
but
this is what I will
voluntarily concede
I will refrain from commenting
on your creative submissions
with others
time and interest permitting
i will interact as before
seasons greetings
t
#59 Posted by Saminasha on December 27, 2004 6:40:15 am
Romair,
I feel for you, really I do. It must be hard having to live in the clamorous and demanding world of ideas. And it must be pretty easy to dismiss the arts while telling yourself you are more relevant to it than its women writers. And all the movements are so hard to figure out -even Terry Eagleton`s hands on explication of them-that it must be easier to tell yourself that these movements dont matter, are irrelevant, are average.
Here`s my suggestion: be one of those writers who is out of touch and disconnected with everything but a very narrow world.
Best of luck.
Hamidm,
Oh I dont know. My Women in Lit course loved my course so much, I`ve been asked to teach it again. We studied: The God of Small Things, Twillight, Persepolis, Latin American poets from the 1920-60s, Lucille Clifton and Denise Duhamel. No one wanted to commit suicide-on the contrary, they were thrilled and energized at how women writers construct the world. And they all operated on some kind of lit. theory.
Btw, these students wrote around the text we studied. Another kind of lit theory idea.
I feel for you, really I do. It must be hard having to live in the clamorous and demanding world of ideas. And it must be pretty easy to dismiss the arts while telling yourself you are more relevant to it than its women writers. And all the movements are so hard to figure out -even Terry Eagleton`s hands on explication of them-that it must be easier to tell yourself that these movements dont matter, are irrelevant, are average.
Here`s my suggestion: be one of those writers who is out of touch and disconnected with everything but a very narrow world.
Best of luck.
Hamidm,
Oh I dont know. My Women in Lit course loved my course so much, I`ve been asked to teach it again. We studied: The God of Small Things, Twillight, Persepolis, Latin American poets from the 1920-60s, Lucille Clifton and Denise Duhamel. No one wanted to commit suicide-on the contrary, they were thrilled and energized at how women writers construct the world. And they all operated on some kind of lit. theory.
Btw, these students wrote around the text we studied. Another kind of lit theory idea.
#58 Posted by Romair on December 26, 2004 10:58:12 pm
Saminashah #51: ``AND it is quite telling that there are certain kinds of ``passion`` that are relevant to you, while the struggle of half of our population who live in no uncertain inequality remain irrelevant and ``sensationalist``.``
You have no idea, what I think about the, ``the struggle of half of our population.`` Once again, you are, quite unnecessarily, trying to pull the female card. What has Suleri done for Pakistan`s female? She doesn`t even live in the country. And how in the world do you, again and again, keep relating someone calling an author average, to the, ``the struggle of half of our population?`` What are you doing for that population? You aren`t even living in the country, either?
I would suggest you stay clear of what other people think about various issues, unless they have expressed them. Writing Meatless Days and Boys will be Boys has done nothing for the women in Pakistan. Even less than holding the, ``Vagina Monologues,`` in Lahore. They may have only done something for the few women in Pakistan, who have everything that they need. Glorifying such works actually diminishes the value of works that are actually helping women in Pakistan..........
You have no idea, what I think about the, ``the struggle of half of our population.`` Once again, you are, quite unnecessarily, trying to pull the female card. What has Suleri done for Pakistan`s female? She doesn`t even live in the country. And how in the world do you, again and again, keep relating someone calling an author average, to the, ``the struggle of half of our population?`` What are you doing for that population? You aren`t even living in the country, either?
I would suggest you stay clear of what other people think about various issues, unless they have expressed them. Writing Meatless Days and Boys will be Boys has done nothing for the women in Pakistan. Even less than holding the, ``Vagina Monologues,`` in Lahore. They may have only done something for the few women in Pakistan, who have everything that they need. Glorifying such works actually diminishes the value of works that are actually helping women in Pakistan..........
#57 Posted by Romair on December 26, 2004 10:57:21 pm
Saminashah #51: ``You yourself wrote that your poem was not successful because you did not truly ``feel`` or experience the injustice of the situation.``
I am not quite sure what you mean by not, ``successful.`` Poetry is either good or bad or in-between. I am not sure how it can be successful or unsuccessful. Much like I am not sure how it can be interrogated. On the whole, other than yours, all the comments were positive. However, that is besides the point. I don`t indulge in stuff purely for it being, ``successful.``
``When I wrote that you could, if you wanted to, find yourself somewhere in this poem and gave you the comments of a well known populist intellectual poet who does just that, you had no use for him, his millions of American readership, his ideas, meter, form, etc. ``
Actually, I do have time for poets and writers. What I don`t have time for are people who consider themselves poets and writers and even critics, when they cannot produce anything themselves. They become critics just by mentioning the names of other established poets and writers. Such individuals are actually just readers, and want to cover their lack of talent through fancy words and names. Kind of like a person who cannot paint, starts throwing out names of famous painters, or becomes an abstract artist........
``English writing writers are pampered, out of touch, etc.-.``
I never said this. I only said most Pakistani English writers are pampered and out of touch. And thus not very good. This is a fact. How many have written anything that has reached a wide audience, or been critically acclaimed. I have absolutely no problem with critiques and critics. Provided the critic actually has done something himself or herself. If tomorrow Mohsin Hamid came and made comments about my writing, I would definitely listen. But if some Tom, Dick or Helen, who hasn`t earned the right to even be a writer, became a self-proclaimed critic, I would have no time for it.
One should not try to portray one`s self as something one isn`t. And one should critique within one`s abilities. If I see Inzam-ul-Haq batting with a hockey stick, I would tell him to use a bat. Since I do know this much. However, I should not try to give him tips on his footwork or his cover drive or the technicalities of a hook shot, unless I have a track record in that area.
``not a single discussion of what Suleri was discussing in her critical theory book, btw-which was an analysis of how race and identity is constructed....so well read in circles of color-particularly desi circles outside of Pakistan? Its because they are representing the experiences of fragmentation, multiple identity, in between existence.``
This is the reason that Pakistan will not produce good writers. Anyone who gets published is proclaimed a great writer, through mumbo-jumbo. Sara Suleri is unknown in the big scheme of English writing. Who knows her? Hardly anyone. If ten readers think she is doing what you say she is doing, it doesn`t mean she is. She wrote a book about her life. Big deal. Please don`t convert it into a classic showing, ``fragmentation, multiple identity, in between existence.`` She certainly didn`t do a good job of it. A very average job.
Go to major stores and see if her book is even in their stock. She is average. Which means she is significantly better than you and I, at writing. But that is about it.......
I am not quite sure what you mean by not, ``successful.`` Poetry is either good or bad or in-between. I am not sure how it can be successful or unsuccessful. Much like I am not sure how it can be interrogated. On the whole, other than yours, all the comments were positive. However, that is besides the point. I don`t indulge in stuff purely for it being, ``successful.``
``When I wrote that you could, if you wanted to, find yourself somewhere in this poem and gave you the comments of a well known populist intellectual poet who does just that, you had no use for him, his millions of American readership, his ideas, meter, form, etc. ``
Actually, I do have time for poets and writers. What I don`t have time for are people who consider themselves poets and writers and even critics, when they cannot produce anything themselves. They become critics just by mentioning the names of other established poets and writers. Such individuals are actually just readers, and want to cover their lack of talent through fancy words and names. Kind of like a person who cannot paint, starts throwing out names of famous painters, or becomes an abstract artist........
``English writing writers are pampered, out of touch, etc.-.``
I never said this. I only said most Pakistani English writers are pampered and out of touch. And thus not very good. This is a fact. How many have written anything that has reached a wide audience, or been critically acclaimed. I have absolutely no problem with critiques and critics. Provided the critic actually has done something himself or herself. If tomorrow Mohsin Hamid came and made comments about my writing, I would definitely listen. But if some Tom, Dick or Helen, who hasn`t earned the right to even be a writer, became a self-proclaimed critic, I would have no time for it.
One should not try to portray one`s self as something one isn`t. And one should critique within one`s abilities. If I see Inzam-ul-Haq batting with a hockey stick, I would tell him to use a bat. Since I do know this much. However, I should not try to give him tips on his footwork or his cover drive or the technicalities of a hook shot, unless I have a track record in that area.
``not a single discussion of what Suleri was discussing in her critical theory book, btw-which was an analysis of how race and identity is constructed....so well read in circles of color-particularly desi circles outside of Pakistan? Its because they are representing the experiences of fragmentation, multiple identity, in between existence.``
This is the reason that Pakistan will not produce good writers. Anyone who gets published is proclaimed a great writer, through mumbo-jumbo. Sara Suleri is unknown in the big scheme of English writing. Who knows her? Hardly anyone. If ten readers think she is doing what you say she is doing, it doesn`t mean she is. She wrote a book about her life. Big deal. Please don`t convert it into a classic showing, ``fragmentation, multiple identity, in between existence.`` She certainly didn`t do a good job of it. A very average job.
Go to major stores and see if her book is even in their stock. She is average. Which means she is significantly better than you and I, at writing. But that is about it.......
#56 Posted by Romair on December 26, 2004 10:25:39 pm
echoboom #52: ``How (& from where) did you get Mountain`s hearth. How is it the translation of the word [Chattaan].``
Good catch. Hearth doesn`t have much to do with chattan. You are correct. This was one word, which I could not fit into the stanzas, so I comprimised a bit. This is the kind of feedback people should be giving. Rather than relying on fancy terms that make no sense.
Hamidm #53: `` don`t waste your time with hanif kureishi if you have already read the buddha of suburbia -``
I am working on The Body and My ear at his heart. I will avoid the rest, if you say so. However, it has become extremely difficult to finish the book of most published Pakistani authors. And Kureshi`s, at least, one can finish.
I am currently working on a book of poems, called Dream and Reality, by someone named Hina Babar Ali. She is the wife(?) of the Babar Ali, the owner of Packages and founder of LUMS. She has a BA and MA in English lit. from Univ. of Michigan. I don`t know how she got published. That is how poor the poetry happens to be. Rich lady with the right contacts. Though I am sure, her colleagues would boost her stuff with the same mumbo-jumbo.
``......... but really, i don`t know if we can establish a strict criteria for what is good and what is bad in writing ........it is a matter of personal preference and unless you are a professional critic or an english prof you really shouldn`t give a flip about what other people think .............but, of course, we are all entitled to our opinion .......... ``
Yes, it is somewhat subjective. But not over a wide group of people. There are a couple of criterias. Go into any Barnes and Noble, and tell them you want a book by Sara Suleri. If they look at you like she is from Mars, then its a pretty good chance she is quite average. Writers and poets who are really really good, tend to gain popularity, amongst the, ``most people`` crowd. Then they start turning their poetry to music or start turning their books into movies, to make some money.
Tom Clancy outsells every writer. It is extremely extremely difficult to writer good thrillers. I started one with a friend. And we stopped half way. There are so many desi writers writing excellent prose and now some poetry also. However, there is not a single one who has written even a half decent thriller. The few that have been published are well below average.
Good catch. Hearth doesn`t have much to do with chattan. You are correct. This was one word, which I could not fit into the stanzas, so I comprimised a bit. This is the kind of feedback people should be giving. Rather than relying on fancy terms that make no sense.
Hamidm #53: `` don`t waste your time with hanif kureishi if you have already read the buddha of suburbia -``
I am working on The Body and My ear at his heart. I will avoid the rest, if you say so. However, it has become extremely difficult to finish the book of most published Pakistani authors. And Kureshi`s, at least, one can finish.
I am currently working on a book of poems, called Dream and Reality, by someone named Hina Babar Ali. She is the wife(?) of the Babar Ali, the owner of Packages and founder of LUMS. She has a BA and MA in English lit. from Univ. of Michigan. I don`t know how she got published. That is how poor the poetry happens to be. Rich lady with the right contacts. Though I am sure, her colleagues would boost her stuff with the same mumbo-jumbo.
``......... but really, i don`t know if we can establish a strict criteria for what is good and what is bad in writing ........it is a matter of personal preference and unless you are a professional critic or an english prof you really shouldn`t give a flip about what other people think .............but, of course, we are all entitled to our opinion .......... ``
Yes, it is somewhat subjective. But not over a wide group of people. There are a couple of criterias. Go into any Barnes and Noble, and tell them you want a book by Sara Suleri. If they look at you like she is from Mars, then its a pretty good chance she is quite average. Writers and poets who are really really good, tend to gain popularity, amongst the, ``most people`` crowd. Then they start turning their poetry to music or start turning their books into movies, to make some money.
Tom Clancy outsells every writer. It is extremely extremely difficult to writer good thrillers. I started one with a friend. And we stopped half way. There are so many desi writers writing excellent prose and now some poetry also. However, there is not a single one who has written even a half decent thriller. The few that have been published are well below average.
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