Must Reads on the Middle East

#32 by Netizen
++
Hence unless and untill there is some level of trust and a committment to peace, its not going to stop.
++

Like I said before, you and I are thinking on the same lines. I also agree that no party is willing to step back from their current position. We both see the problem.

Where we differ is the solution: If we pat one party on the back and say `Go on son, you have every right to defend yourself` and handcuff the other and label hem as terrosrists and fanatics: how will that bring peace?

#34 by Netizen

++
These become a jihad only when the opponent is a non-muslim.
++

Let me give you a scenario, then I`ll come to the point you`ve put here.

Say you belonged to an ethnic/relgious group X and live in country C. Someone goes around killing/persecuting other members of X who live in countries A and B. I am sure you, in country C, will at some point think of the following, even if not in the same order:

* why are people being killed/persecuted in country A and B?
* why are these people members of group X only?
* so am I or my family next now in Country C?

You can fill in X with any proper name: not just Muslims, everyone will feel threatened if they are faced with the same circumstances.

Coming to your point: when a Muslim differs with a Muslim, the reasons are mainly political: they will choose the wrong path and fight and kill each other. Other (non-involved) Muslims don`t see this as a threat to their sovereignty as they know the issue is political and has nothing to do with their own ideology. What they will do is point out to each party their faults and tell them to stop fighting. However generally they will not get involved physically.

But when they see Non-Muslims (of different ethnic origins) attacking/terrorising Muslims at different points in time and space:they see a pattern; they do feel threatened. Hence the urge to step in and take action: legal and acceptable to the rest of the world or otherwise.


++
Because for them Allah matters more than motherland.
++
This always has been the case and it always will, I`m afraid.

=== Interact Filtered ===
view this users filtered interacts

MIDDLE EAST and the OTTOMAN EMPIRE

Most of the middle east was under Ottoman rule. From Basra to Casbah, the faithful were ruled by corrupt Ottoman Governors, while across the Bosphorest canal age of reason and Guttenberg were rampant. A lot of the current middle-eastern problems are blamed on colonial rule, but no blame is placed on 400 years of ottoman rule. Can any of you well-read gentlefolks can comment why?

In reply to #30 by anzar

``But there is a basic flaw in trying to put fire out with more fire.``

This ``more fire`` could be a Israeli missile targetting a Hamas leader (or a bulldozer destroying house of a suicude bomber) or a Palestinian suicide bomber/gunmen.

``Wouldn`t it be more logical to get rid of the fuel that ignites the hatred? ``

I guess everyone understands that but the problem is who is willing not to reiterate to missiles or human bombers. Any kind of cease fire or reconcilliation will be seen as a sign of weakness. Thats the problem. Can anyone guarantee no attacks from Hamas/Fatah for no Israeli missile attack? Even Arafat could not. Also can Israel not inferfere or humiliate Palistenians?
Hence unless and untill there is some level of trust and a committment to peace, its not going to stop.

=== Interact Filtered ===
view this users filtered interacts

In reply to #30 by anzar

``The suicide bombers (that you do hear every other day) are `bothered` about how Muslims around the world are being dealt with: Afghanistan, Bosnia, Chechnya, Iraq, Kashmir, Palestine, and the list goes on. Muslims like to be recognised as a group wherever they live, despite the seemingly deep political divisions between them. You just cannot keep impaling one without hearing at least a moan from the other side. ``

The problem with these kind of muslims are that they have taken koran literally. They still believe in the Dar-ur-Islam. For them when the opponent is a non-muslim, invoking islam comes in handy as it can always gather cooperation and sympathy from fellow muslims. I wonder why there was no moans when millions of muslims got killed in Iran-Iraq war or when Turks killed Kurds or Pakis killed bengali muslims or in the present case Darfur killings. These become a jihad only when the opponent is a non-muslim.
Regarding your conclusion that muslilms behave like a group thats true, and is a good reason to keep them in check. Because for them Allah matters more than motherland.

Jai Hind

#28 by arjun_m

The Hutu and Tutsi conflict in Rwanda was a war between two nations. The Rwandans have no point to make if thery start blowing say the US citizens up in suicide attacks. The US did not do anything to suppress the right of any party.

The suicide bombers (that you do hear every other day) are `bothered` about how Muslims around the world are being dealt with: Afghanistan, Bosnia, Chechnya, Iraq, Kashmir, Palestine, and the list goes on. Muslims like to be recognised as a group wherever they live, despite the seemingly deep political divisions between them. You just cannot keep impaling one without hearing at least a moan from the other side.

++
Madrassahs in Pakistan funded by saudi arabia create the terrorists...time to shut them down..no indoctrination, no terrorists...
++

I don`t think anyone from Palestine is allowed to Pakistan or vice versa. Who`s sponsoring their desperate fight for justice? The IRA never had a local branch in Pakistan. They never recruited any Muslim teachers. Don`t believe the ETA was ever here either. Does that mean they can have `terrorists` off their list of attributes then?

And who trained the Mukti Bahini? (another example of terror breeded by injustice).

Rise and shine.

#29 by Netizen
++
There are excesses from both sides. Its a vicious cycle which will never end without firm commitment
++

Hear hear! Absolutely! I will never pat any suicide bomber on the back. Killing women and children (being done by both sides, mind you) is absolutely wrong.

But there is a basic flaw in trying to put fire out with more fire. Wouldn`t it be more logical to get rid of the fuel that ignites the hatred?

The Protocols of the Elders of Zion are very crude anti-semitic propaganda created by the Okhrana, the old Tsarist secret police, in the late 19th century. They have been so thoroughly discredited that even Henry (NOT Harry) Ford published an apology in his newspaper when this was made known to him.

You can accuse the Jews/Israelis of many things about Palestine BUT this piece of trash is nothing but a third rate piece of libel, ranking right up there with blood sacrifice and other lies about Jews.

NB/ Shergill - Is The Protocols of the Elders of Zion really a fiction? Then how about a book recommended by author, whose description reads like a Wall Street Journal report on a mutual fund:

Burke`s account obviously benefits from a lot of frontline research and he gives us insights about the shadowy organization that are original specially his view of them being more a commissioning house on terror, a sort of Venture Capitalist fund stewarding many bombing projects with the help of `talent` that comes calling with novel ideas of mayhem.

The only thing left out here was assigning a ticker symbol to Al-qaeda.

=== Interact Filtered ===
view this users filtered interacts

In reply to #24 by anzar
Your reply seems to be more specific to the middle east crisis. Whereas my reply was more general in nature. Personally I think it will be a very long time before things will be normal. India has its own insurgencies and problems to deal with. The best policy will be to be neutral. There are excesses from both sides. Its a vicious cycle which will never end without firm commitment.

Jai Hind

malik99:

1:...do you consider that best book a work of fiction or non-fiction?...
2:...are you conspiracy buff?

rgds,

t

ps:

=== Interact Filtered ===
view this users filtered interacts

Protocols of the Elders of Zion.

I believe that Mr. Ford was a strong Anti Jew, so I am not surprised that he offered to pay for publishing and distribution of this book.

Terrorists are people who have a very strong sense of injustice done to them. It has nothing to do with their being rich or poor. However if they are unemployed or aimless in life, it is easier to brainwash them and give them a direction and purpose in life, which to them is correct and for the majority of us is wrong.

Mao said it aptly when he said `Power flows from the barrel of a gun `. This principle has been well understood by the terrorists.

Malik 99,
I can`t believe you, The Protocols of The Elders of Zion is fiction, and vicious fiction at that. This is why things will never improve, that some Muslims and Nazis think it is the truth.

#20 by arjun_m
I don`t think anyone believes the Saudis who were allegedly in the planes that brought the WTC down were protesting against anything happening in their owm country. Like you said:

++
a lot of these men were studying abroad.....
++

Could there be some international issues bothering them? Or is that too far from the sand for the learned head?

Killing the terrorist will only strengthen the resolve of others and make MORE terrorists. Address the route cause: solve the problems turning school children into suicide bombers. Give peace a chance.

#21 by Netizen
++
when you cannot win peace on your terms, it could lead to terrorism.
Also, when you cannot win conventionally, it could also cause terrorism.
++

Very true: when you cannot live on your terms in your own homeland, when you, a majority, are forced to live on the terms of a dictating minority: there is no way you can win peace on your own terms.

Convention just goes out of the window when your entire family goes to sleep one night and is bull-dozed or bombed into smitherines, unannounced.

Kind of unjust, don`t you think?