’NO’ to Ostentatious Displays and Wasteful Expenses

``The decree of the Pakistani court is of great importance to the Muslims of India. ``

Miyan ! tumhara sar phir gaya hai? When did IM-s started looking at the wonderful legislations of Pakistan for inspiration?? I am sure you are in that gullible and romantic stage of your life when fascination for PURE things is natural.........and quoting hadith justifies any stupid action..................

Sir,

Sometimes you can even learn from other people`s mistakes...not just from what they do right.

Hell, in Pakistan`s case, you can write & learn from entire volumes...:P

I feel sad for a large amount of people from the hospitality industry who are going to go out of business. Whether an expenditure is wasteful or not, and even if it is wasteful and someone wishes to spend the money is of no business of the state. Next they will start passing laws about what clothes can be worn, what cars can be bought etc. The state should concentrate on improving law and order, and reducing poverty by providing jobs.

Marriages are an expensive business in the sub continent, and passing of laws is not going to change that. If you want to save money, then the bride and groom should be encouraged to run away and get married, or live in sin !!!! (Said in jest)

On a serious note with so many divorces taking place I think that soon people will realize that its not worth spending that kind of money on marriages, specially if it ends up in failure.

I have not read the actual jugement of the Supreme court banning the wedding meals. As however apears from the press reports the judges of the Supreme Court seem to have become `Taliban` as they have pontified that the customs like `barat` and `mehndi` are Hinduistic and be shunned. My question is ``Do the `honourable` judges consider Hinuism an abrogated religion as the Taliban held the Christian religion to be?``. If so will they tell us whether the present corrupt judicial system of Pakistan is Islamic.

# 18, Thanks for cvlarifying you are not socialist. Felt better at same time feel bad as you like their aims only you do not like their ways of doing equality business.
If people do not recognize most people who are poor are with full of problems. They breed like rats , they can not provide for one child but they will start assembly production of people . They do not care about any thing but sex and depriving children. Rich people have few kids but servants have fleets of children from different women. Just disgusting.Poor people guilt feeling of well to do people and exploit them . In elections they are darling of all political parties. Some body said god likes poor so he breeds them like that. There was useless poor guy on eid have to give him money for his irresponsible way. Every time addition to family amd misery. My country is always army rule or in shadow of army rule. This dictorship had been good if they can force one child per family like our greatest benefactor.India and pakistan doomed by babies they will kill all like ants. Just no water, food and air. I uderstand sex is good for poor as its like air to them( there is nothing much other) , they do not give damn and thank govt for permitting to produce babies and wreck country but deny sex they will feel choked. Our govt should reward for for having only one child. But they want more votes so they encourage more babies. All lafangebazzi. all even dictectors are lafangas i feel some time. They can wear nice military dress like boys but all poor lafangas

I like the lines on which Salil Kader is thinking. The ordinance sets a good precedent for anyone to follow, either side of the border.

6 by nikki

I fully agree that it is not only a rdiculous decision it is also an un-Islamic one as is evidenced by an interesting Haddes quoted below:-

Sahih Bokhari,
Vol. I, Book 8, No.367

We conquered Khaibar, took the captives, and the booty was collected. Dihya came and said, `O Allah`s Prophet! Give me a slave girl from the captives.` The Prophet said, `Go and take any slave girl.` He took Safiya bint Huyai. A man came to the Prophet and said, `O Allah`s Apostles! You gave Safiya bint Huyai to Dihya and she is the chief mistress of the tribes of Quraiza and An-Nadir and she befits none but you.` So the Prophet said, `Bring him along with her.` So Dihya came with her and when the Prophet saw her, he said to Dihya, `Take any slave girl other than her from the captives.` Anas added: The Prophet then manumitted her and married her.``
Thabit asked Anas, ``O Abu Hamza! What did the Prophet pay her (as Mahr)?`` He said, ``Her self was her Mahr for he manumitted her and then married her.`` Anas added, ``While on the way, Um Sulaim dressed her for marriage (ceremony) and at night she sent her as a bride to the Prophet . So the Prophet was a bridegroom and he said, `Whoever has anything (food) should bring it.` He spread out a leather sheet (for the food) and some brought dates and others cooking butter. (I think he (Anas) mentioned As-SawTq). So they prepared a dish of Hais (a kind of meal). And that was Walima (the marriage banquet) of Allah`s Apostle .``

JagDeCat #10,

Islam maybe, but what the heck should India learn from Pakistan? How to turn into a basket case country?

`` who on earth has told you that people think logically. None of us do, no matter how much we can profess to do so. Our society has a bigger impact on our upbringing and behavior than you are giving credit to and secondly, perhaps if you`re strong enough to resist, not everyone is a maverick. Given to ostentations for centuries of the Desi culture, Pakistan is still finding its roots of Islam It`s still more like India than a truly modern Islamic nation. ``

the biggest problem is desis never try !!!
hindu or muslim - most folks are chicken

Bravo ! I whole heartedly support the writer`s viewpoint. Although it is none of my damn business ( pardon my French ! ) being away from the environs of South Asia for many years now, yet, being someone who saw life at the very `grassroots`, I respect the opinion expressed in the piece. Whereas Nawaz Sharif was a vicious and ambitious brat who had great `non-implementable` ideals, yet, the law under discussion, i.e. banning food in marriage ceremonies was one realistic step he took in his two terms as prime minister. Pakistan`s `well-meaning` elite that loves to show wealth and riches needs such laws to apply brakes on the `show of strength` of their enormous lust for glamour and glitter of rituals. As it is the almost invisible middle class is being crushed by the burden of economic issues. The emphasis on elaborate wedding ceremonies only added to the burden and the unhealthy competition in the society. One sincerely hopes that the Supreme Court decision is upheld in right earnest and enforced on all and sundry without `negative` discrimination. The Mian Sahibs, the Choudharies, the Seths and the Maliks should all be checked by the law enforcement agencies irrespective of their political or administration clout.

dear ahmedmadani sahab, I thank you for your comments. To begin with let me clarify, I am no leftist/socialist. In fact I am opposed to the leftist method of doing things. I agree that ``It is not fault of rich and able people they make good living..`` but as individuals living in a particular society, rich or poor, we have our responsibilities towards the betterment of that society. I am just addressing those responsibilities. Please do not get depressed.

Dear Siyam, I think you missed this line of my essay: ``Dowry and ostentations, which have become synonymous with weddings of all communities across India..`` I have said ``all communities`` and obviously the comment doesnt single out a community. The reason I directed some part of the essay towards Indian Muslims is because the judges quoted the Holy Quran while making the judgement and thus it is relevant to Muslims of India too. I apologise if any IM felt that i was making an insinuation against the community. That was definitely not the intention. I am an IM and very well understand that the internal problems of the community. Instead of berating the laws and the law making mechanism, i think we need to be optimistic and experiment with certain laws. Who knows one of them might just work? That laws never work or are broken frequently shouldnt be reason not to have laws!

Well writer seems young maturing man. He is going through ``socialist`` phase and will mature to normality . Time is great cure. Most socialist end up in usa not in China advantage to China. At that age people donot read any books with big names Das Capital, Anti Duharin, Hegel, dilectical materialism, great works of comrade Joseph Stan or thoughts of Mao and all heady stuff. But they look at covers and get all stuff and start pontification. They should read State and revolution and left communism, infantile disorder by Lenin. But they do not have time to0 read but just watch tv and write advice to rich people. And rich people have no time to read such good advice and waste time . He wants to creat wealth for him his family. There are good leftists like Mrs Roy company they are aginst america but hop on airplanes and when they come back they will preach disadvantage of air pollution by usa and planes and tell half naked hindus of India to shun wealth as they can get spoilt by riches. I have heard Kerala produces Reds in India like mices. All types of red bookish revolutionaryis writing big articles. We should keep these away from Pakistan as they are worst than Army general type disease. Leftism breeds imcompetance, whiny small rats .
Again writer... Please give that you advice and things to poor Indians . we want unhealthy expences and displays and lots of wasteful expenses. I hope all world does not stop wasteful expenses as otherwise Indians will need PL480 again to feed fast breeding Indians.
Good 2005 and good `` Ostentatious Displays and Wasteful Expenses`` and god save world from do gooder `` Salil Kader`` type people. I feel depressed now as man is serious.
All lafangebazi to impress some gf. I am tried and depressed by this man Diatribe against wasteful expenses.

It is sad our judges indulge in useless unforceable things. They do not pay attention to major problems of country when in their courts. I do not like idea of poverty worshipping. What is bad in spending the earned money ? What is there to be ashamed of creation of wealth and feeding good food and liquid refeshments to your friends on occasion of your son`s or daughter`s marriage. It is not fault of rich and able people they make good living.
This unhonorable judges laid tradition started by justice Muneer to approves take overs. It is but natural when they can not do any meaningful things start indulging in stupid things. The judges declared once present marriage ceremonies are like hindu marriages, what this judges have to comment about what people to lawfully and peacefully.
Our country need help from usa not in dollars as they soon are gone but people who will interpreat constitytion and force it and put generals to shame.
These laws are not appropriate as I do not want to say laws are wrong. Also dowry laws are unforceable. Many times you are forced to give money . Suppose you have stupid halfmad son you need to get bride and money as a lubrication will help. Or suppose you have ugly daughter and no man even wants to get in vicinity of 50 meters you have problem. Now some are so dark you can make them at night due to darkness. I met once man.The man was desperate he said he is looking for son in law and I said I will keep attention. He was desperate he said if boy marries his daughter he can give his other 3 daughters as dowry. I told him please do not utter even word about dowry as when he sees her he can get depressed and if you mention of other three daughters he will be dead and news will spread.
I told him to use lots of money, put lots of powder, etc. But man was not god his daughters buried him in few years. He would have saved if he had money but poor are poor and whiners. He was full problems he used to come late and excuse was always about marriage, he was lazy and complaint all time about daughters marriage. Now that was his fault but others had to suffer. If he had lots of money problem could have been taken care.
I met once nice liberal couple. They were liberal with others money took money for sons marriage but were not interested in giving money they did not wanted to follow hindu traditions. When some body inquired about change of principle. He was liberal said ``they follow principles but changing principle is allowed if you find intelluctually wrong``. That is right pure secular liberal attitude. All lafangebazi and lafangas.
All its bad for economy as hospatility business suffer and mostly poor people are deprived of their wages. It is sad rich are treated as nearly criminals and poor are considered as people of virtue, wrong they have virtues as they have no opportunity to be corroupt. Anyway its getting late. I wish all readers good happy new 2005.

The fact that the author addresses this article ``as a lesson to Indian Muslims`` is more of an insult to them than anything else. The insinuation that as Muslims they are the ones only engaged in the practise of dowry is a complete generalisation. Frankly, I don`t think this law has anything to do with Islam or wasteful expenses for that matter. First, the laws in Pakistan are as always applied very selectively. Second, if the problem of dowry and ``wasteful expenses`` is widespread, people will just find other means to spend and men will find other women to marry.

With so much in the country contrary to any accepted norms of human propriety and equality, is another half-thoughtout law (based on someone`s version of Islam) rarely implemented law really needed? If the people in power actually wanted to better anything in this country, they would first pay attention to basic things such as water, safety, collecting taxes from the rich and not just the salaried, education, law and order etc.

With every single passing day of knowing Pakistan, and the politics and laws that now exist there it is clear that those who are constantly trying to use the guise of Islam with everything in the country are actually doing a great disservice. I am left with the impression that any law that is supported through the mentioning of Islam is self serving, harmful, and doesn`t really end up solving anything.

harish_hyd and haroonellahi:

What point is made when you guys go around throwing allegations of injustices by one and the other?

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As Pakistani`s I don`t really see how we can talk about injusticves elsewhere in the world just because we not only don`t treat Hindus well, we also don`t treat various sects of Islam, Christianity, other sects well either. It seems that Pakistan exists to serve the rich, and the army.