Branding Nations

temporal,
you have correctly identified some role models. What we need to do is to project the good deeds of ordinary Pakistanis, in the media. I am sure you also know of so many in different fields, education, health, women empowerment, human rights etc. We means the governement and the media ( a large part of which is in the private sector). If you look at our print media it is full of negativity. We must put out more positive stories. There are many. We need to create a balance in the way we project ourselves. I have a complete format on how to do it, that I will be posting soon on the site.
regards
Yahya

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Labyrinth1:

1) The Relationship with USSR is more like buyer-seller. And Russia of today is 1/3 of Indian economy. India controls the relationship. India is the biggest buyer and it is more of an equal relationship coz India and Russia jointly developed the Bbrahmos missile and the next generation fighter aircraft. Can you say the same about US-PAK realtionship? The answer is an obvious NO.

2) China-India trade has already breached $10 billion and growing steady. Already China has made U-Turns and now supports India for UN seat. As trade increases China will completely stop any facade of supporting Pak stand. They already advised you not to bring kashmir issue and asked you to withdraw from kargil.

3) Saudis not allowing hindus to enter mecaa CLEARLY SHOWS THE FACISM of the MULLAH WAHHABIS, not something to be gleeful about. Its a SHAME.

4) Kashmir is already settled. LOC or Status Quo. The whole world is OK with LOC,including US and China. There is no way pak can do anything about it. And even `LOC as border` is valid only at present. As Indian stand gets better in the coming decade, India might even demand more and get more. So Pak better get the best offer on hand. I am simply stating a simple fact.

5) OIC is only a talking forum. Means nothing in Real life. And in a MUSLIM talking forum all muslims talk BS about united Ummah and forget about it the next day. Or worse go back to fight the sunni-shia, Arab-Persian and many other intra-muslim fights. If you wanna test the Muslim loyalty, GO and Check the UN voting records of the muslim countries on Kashmir and 1965, 1971 and other wars. You will be surprised that majority muslim nations voted with India and the significant minority abstained. Where does that leave PAK?

6) No Bangladeshi wants to join with Pak. Dont dream. They, like Pakistanis, simply resent a powerful India in their backyard. Simple case of a brother with much less resource being envious of the blood brother`s big resource and power next door.

7) You say that you dont mind that India being BIG Brother. But you have a denial problem that the big brother which is currently 10.5 times bigger economically and increasing the gap every passing year. 7 times more population , 4 times more land and about 2 times better army, atleast 5 times better AF and atleast 8 times better Navy. And you go back to say there should be equality and parity between the two. Just be realistic. How can there be a parity when the size is so heavily loaded towards India in all factors. The parity you wish WILL BE THERE AS PER THE ECONOMIC Ratio of 1:10. India can afford to spend 10 times more than Pak on defense. Infact, currently Indian defense budget is bigger than the entire PAK budget. HOW CAN THERE BE PARITY? You gotta learn to live with that reality. In hindsight, Partition was a blow to Pakistan and Bangladesh, Not for India. It is actually beneficial for India coz they dont have to deal with the terrorist problems and out of control mullahs living in 600AD and doing everything to take Pak into 600 AD.

Labyrinth: ONE REQUEST. Please read everything I have said before answering coz you get emotional and not answer me on points and logic and go off on unrelated tangent.

I reply to #6 by labyrinth1

``We Pakistanis would never ever accept Indian dominance over us ``

How odd, you are o.k. with dominance from other non-muslim people viz. U.S and China. I understand your hatred for hindoos will never allow you to accept ``Hindoo dominance``.

``Pakistan in 71 ( another enemy ) on there Eastern Border ( look at the situation at the borders ) ``

What can you expect from muslims. They are the same whether they speak punjabi or bengali. Hence india has started to build a fence there too.

``We Pakistanis will accept a Responsible India rather then same old Hindu Mentality Type India who wants to``
I am quite amused with this line. Could you please elaborate on this. With paki hindu population less than .5% I wonder where you had such experiences with hindus.

``Indians got everything they needed when they started while we never had anything yes we made economical and political mistakes but we are on the right track now . ``

You still are making economical mistakes like not selling the surplus electricity/sugar, not buying coal from india (rather than from australia) and tying all economical and commercial decisions to Kashmir.


``whatever she does could control small nations like Srilanka or Nepal but not us Pakistanis we will fight with them until we die . ``

Controlling pakistan? Is even Mushy in control of NWFP or Karachi? We in india alrady have heaches like bihar and u.p , don`t want even bigger headaches like pakistan. All india will like from pak is to stop the terror tap.

Replying Amit and singularity)
Amit licking American and Chinese boots I assume is better then rimming USSR`s A** for 50 years and the story goes on - Everyone has there own interest we have ours and China have there(s) and somehow
we are getting good in it agree on not ; Yes, I agree with you about treatment of Pakistanis in Middle East but come again to my knowledge
Hindus are not even allowed to enter Mecca and Medina! Anyhow lets
Move on to Kashmir - Kashmir Cause is one of the two biggest issues
which were agreed by all Muslim Countries according to OIC ( whatever
OIC is now adays ) -
Amit Indians are treated by us ( Pakistanis ) same as Indians treat us with
warmth and will do so but that is a whole different issue . 71 was yes our
fault but backed by Indians same Bangolis now regret that they helped
Mujeeb and those who don`t are no fan of Indians . Yes I agree Ind-o-Pak
Relationship would be good for both countries but going against China
( which Americans want ) will never be accepted by us (Pakistanis) . My
forefathers were born in India and I personally travelled to see our houses back in India - I am of Indian Origin that is my origin but my nationality is
Pakistani and thats where I am from . I would love if we ( Pakistanis and
Indians ) become good friends thats my wish but if we really became
strategic partners that will not be on Indian terms. As I said , we Pakistanis think of India as Big Brother an respect her as a big nation and that’s about it .
Pakistan and India could be partners only if there’ s equality and balance in relationship and our relationship is not against any third country.

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Yahya,

What differentiates nations is the perception about them and the quality of their ‘brand’.

I admire the positive tone of the aritcle. However in the above, I think it`s the other way around.

Re:labyrinth1#6

You are speaking of honor. What is the honor in licking the boots of US, China and Islamic world all your life? You have done that for 60 years and what has it got you? Nothing. The US humiliates you and uses you at will. They pushed you to fight their proxy war in Afghanistan with disastrous results for your own country. They humiliated you publicly during Kargil. The Pentagon orders you to kill your own people in South Waziristan. China uses you to compete against India. You don`t get much economic benefit from China unlike other Asian countries. The Islamic world keeps you at an arms length and doesn`t even give you half-hearted support on Kashmir. Any visitor from Pakistan is treated very shabbily in middle-east countries, just like any other person from the subcontinent.

In contrast to all this, India is one country where Pakistanis are treated with respect and almost like celebrities. Any visitor from Pakistan is treated with warmth and hospitality that is reserved for family members. In spite of all the bad blood, India never started any war with Pakistan. Even 1971 war was officially started by Pakistan. Your tragedy is that you have never been able to identify your true friend whose people care about you and instead gone to other countries who don`t give a s$it about you. If India and Pakistan can have a real friendship based on mutual respect, we can become a superpower that can easily challenge China and eventually the west. Unfortunately we desis have the ancient bad habit of fighting with each other all the time, even as outsiders exploit our weaknesses and take advantage of us.

Yahya,

Would it be okay to ask for your e-mail? If you wish, I could send you mine or obtain yours from Chowk (with your permission, of course).

Umer M.

labyrinth1:

Please read through my response entirely and then read through your response entirely,word by word. Just relax and think. Emotion blinds people from reading with an open mind.

Labyrinth, Nowhere did I say that India wants to dominate everybody else. That is not the idea at all. But the problem is the INDIAN CONFIDENCE is taken to be arrogance by the Pakistanis. Whatever you call it, the reality is the subcontinent is populated by people of Indian descent. And for all of them, India is the mother to look for, even though they maybe be truants and wanting to play alone coz they think now they are big.

labyrinth,again, let me make sure,no Indian want to dominate anybody but the reality is Indian size is just too big and intimidating for the rest. So get over the complex and play the game WITH India instead of AGAINST. Bangladesh is the result of Pakistani discrimination, has nothing to do with India. The faster pakistan get out of the self-denial mode the better for them.

Labyrinth, Just saying Indians got everything during partition for 60 years is not going to help either. You guys had 60 years to build your country into a viable democratic, progressive and free country. AND YOU SCREWED IT UP. Nobody to blame but yourself. Analyze the reasons. Why should you try everything to fight with India. Instead patch up and start working together. That will stop the PAK dependence on US/China and being used by US/China all the time. And guess what, in the end, nobody supports PAK anyways. Not China. Not US. Not Saudi. Nobody has ever come to the help of PAK in its war with India. All of PAK`S best friends never helped PAK when it needed them most. And not one supports PAK in Kashmir. All of them are simply using Pak to sell their goods for exorbitant price coz PAK has no other choice.

There is no way the PAK image will improve if it keeps fighting with India. It doesn`t affect India much coz India being big and growing at 6% avg for close to 20 years now with a huge middle class and top 5 military, nobody want to be in the bad book of India. Besides its all driven by money. As long as PAK keeps fighting with India it cant get out of the rot.

And you are missing the big picture. Humans are driven by self-preservation. That is the driving need. Not anything else including religion. So do not make statements like we will die BS. Thats not reality. That is just il-logical bravado. Nobody wants to die. Everybody wants to grow. That is human instinct. As I said the current path is Unsustainable and slowly reality will sink in. The world functions based on survival of fittest and Natural selection. So anything that is unnatural will eventually correct itself.

Whatever Indians like Singularity and niiki aka arjun thinks about Pakistan is pure fiction - so people like them should be ignored - Singularity and Nikki - let me be very clear we ( Pakistanis ) are realy to fight till we die for our honour ( whatever is left of it to be honest ) but we sure are ; Pakistanis do accept India as a big brother in the region but thinking of Indian Dominance over us is foolishness . We Pakistanis would never ever accept Indian dominance over us and Indians know it - tit for tat that would be our response . As far as Bangladesh is concerned Indians actually made another Pakistan in 71 ( another enemy ) on there Eastern Border ( look at the situation at the borders ) . Srilankans wil always keep away from India for obvious reasons . As far as Pakistan ( s ) economy is concerned we never got the real chance from the day we started working in Pakistan - Indians got everything they needed when they started while we never had anything yes we made economical and political mistakes but we are on the right track now .
We Pakistanis will accept a Responsible India rather then same old Hindu Mentality Type India who wants to dominate Nepal , Pakistan Bangladesh Srilanka Bhutan etc.. etc.. and India whatever she does could control small nations like Srilanka or Nepal but not us Pakistanis we will fight with them until we die .
Pakistan ( s ) image will only improve if we as Pakistanis act positive and think positive about her ( Pakistan ) ; We are improving and improving fast think of our people five years ago and see the standard of life now rural and urban cities - things are changing for good - we don`t thank Allah for what we got and always complain dont be selfish and be thankful of what we have .

Pakistan and the Arab countries are brought to the world table kicking and screaming. They are taught by uncle SAM on how to behave and be good citizens of the world. The dependence on OIL is bound to come down with the advent of hybrid cars and Oil alternative technology. It is really not that far away. In the worst case we can always use ethanol.

Pakistan and Bangladesh really have no choice but to align with India if they need to survive and progress. Pakistan is under tremendous pressure on all fronts and eventually will the light. They simply cant afford to carry on the cold war with India. Indian Economy is all set for a long term big boom. And as the economy improves the rest of the political issues will die down. Islamic Terrorism is on its last legs and will be quelled in the next 10 years. Sri lanka has already seen the tidings and aligned its fate with India. Bangladesh will be next. Pakistan will probably continue its untenable line a bit more until the time they are on the verge of collapse. Maybe 10 years. But they really have no choice.

You cant improve the image with the PAK govt giving refuge to somebody like Dawood Ibrahaim. The world is not blind. Pak cant cheat everybody all the time.

Let the events take its due course. But the dice is already cast.

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advertising is fine. But it does not help if the underlying product is shabby.
The following products/ideas and people from India may transcend history - Gandhi, Buddha, Yoga, spicy Indian food, Hinduism

Insaan andar say badal jaaye tau image khud ba khud badal jaata hai.

Khuda ki kirpa aur Ram Rahim ki rehmat say hee Pakistan theek ho sakta hay.

Yeh na samaj aur nadani hai kay role model Pakistan kay haivaanon ka saamna kar saktay hain.

Yahya:

welcome to chowk

you wrote:We need to create ‘role models’ in all fields and at every level for others in our nation to emulate.

..don’t want to dampen your spirits but can you explain who is this we and how do we go about creating these role models? and once we have them what do we do with them?

…for other pakistani interactors here a question: please name a few acceptable pakistani role models:

....here is my initial list:

abdul sattar eidhi
imran khan
mukhtaran bibi
akhtar hameed khan
ansar burney
asma jahangir


rgds,

t