Soysauce December 28, 2004
#1 Posted by veeresh on December 29, 2004 12:18:40 am
Nagapattinam was my first Indian port as a cadet, way back in July 1975, onboard a cargo ship. Flew Bombay to Madras, metre gauge train from Egmore to Nagapattinam, and thence by rickshaw to the fishing jetty. Onwards by fishing boat to the anchorage and onboard the mv SATYA KAMAL, in with wheat from the US.
Spent a month there, and all I remember is working, slogging, as the juniormost cadet on board. However, we did manage to go out on the fishing boats a few times to the neighbouring towns of Karaikal and Velankani, if I remember the spellings correctly.
It was also the first port of call for the passenger ships on their way from Singapore and Kelang to Madras. There used to be a lot of private commerce (also called smuggling) going on. The onset of aviation, the evolution of Colombo as a trans-shipment port, and the growth of Tuticorin as well as Chennai put an end to those glory days.
Yes, there used to be a lot of very rich people in and around Nagapatinam in the `70s and `80s. Then it slowed down. And now, it is a coastal area, post tsunami waves.
Spent a month there, and all I remember is working, slogging, as the juniormost cadet on board. However, we did manage to go out on the fishing boats a few times to the neighbouring towns of Karaikal and Velankani, if I remember the spellings correctly.
It was also the first port of call for the passenger ships on their way from Singapore and Kelang to Madras. There used to be a lot of private commerce (also called smuggling) going on. The onset of aviation, the evolution of Colombo as a trans-shipment port, and the growth of Tuticorin as well as Chennai put an end to those glory days.
Yes, there used to be a lot of very rich people in and around Nagapatinam in the `70s and `80s. Then it slowed down. And now, it is a coastal area, post tsunami waves.
#2 Posted by M.B.Z.Isphahani on December 29, 2004 7:16:13 am
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#3 Posted by sadna on December 29, 2004 8:00:23 am
`Silappadigaram` seems to date from 2-3rd century AD?
Mahabalipuram was apparently once a thriving port city too and there is a flood story in Mahabalipuram too. The Hindu reported that in fisherman fable, the Mahabalipuram Shore temple( dating from 7th century Pallava?) was said to have six counterparts which are submerged.
Recently, remains of structures stretching over a large area were discovered underwater about a kilometer offshore from the Shore temple. The submerging could have been caused by a local coastline/sea level change of course and not a catastrophic event.
Mahabalipuram was apparently once a thriving port city too and there is a flood story in Mahabalipuram too. The Hindu reported that in fisherman fable, the Mahabalipuram Shore temple( dating from 7th century Pallava?) was said to have six counterparts which are submerged.
Recently, remains of structures stretching over a large area were discovered underwater about a kilometer offshore from the Shore temple. The submerging could have been caused by a local coastline/sea level change of course and not a catastrophic event.
#4 Posted by soysauce on December 29, 2004 12:17:39 pm
John Simpson indeed! I have asked Chowk editors to credit me as the author.
#3 sadna
Up until now it has been speculated that the destruction of these ports/coastal areas occurred due to erosion or silting up. Makes sense since we didn`t know anything about tidal waves in the indian ocean. Now there`s reason to reassess.
According to the epic Manimekalai, Chola king was grieving over the loss of his son and failed to put up the celebration for Indra. Manimekalai the goddess got angry and destroyed Puhar as punishment. This suggests a certain suddenness, a catastrophe. As for the period of these epics, the evidence is highly circumstantial and based on a chain of reasoning. So&so mentioned in this book, therefore this precedes him, etc., with the time of so&so itself is lost in the mists of time. According to some authors, Ilango & Sattanar (author of Manimekalai) were contemporaries. But the fact that Puhar was a thriving city according to Ilango and past its prime according to Sattanar suggests a chronological order to some others.
#2 MBZI
I don`t think science is the solution for every disaster. Global warming can be slowed down by exercising caution not by new technology. At any rate, adaptation of new technology again comes down to human factors.
There`s quite a bit of talk about a warning system for future Tsunamis. Given that we have very little history or cultural memory of Tsunamis, I`d think this would not be a very effective idea. To give an extreme example, we could deploy the best technology to plan against an asteroid impact. But it would be ineffective since we have no experience & no training.
I am told that right after the first waves hit, huge crowd of gawkers and concerned folk gathered at the beaches in TN. Clearly this was because they had no clue what was going on. If a second wave had hit, they probably would have kept away but no such thing happened (fortunately) and the possibility of something like this remains theoretical. Should another tidal wave strike again, you can expect gawkers to get back there again. Disasters are prevented only if they occur with a certain frequency and people can be conditioned to react. I am not sure technology is going to help here.
#1 Veeresh
Nagappattinam continued to be a source of smuggled goods until into the 90s. Easing of import restrictions put an end to the smuggling activity. You could get gillette blades, japanese cassette tapes and chinese Hero pens from walking into any of the tea stalls.
#3 sadna
Up until now it has been speculated that the destruction of these ports/coastal areas occurred due to erosion or silting up. Makes sense since we didn`t know anything about tidal waves in the indian ocean. Now there`s reason to reassess.
According to the epic Manimekalai, Chola king was grieving over the loss of his son and failed to put up the celebration for Indra. Manimekalai the goddess got angry and destroyed Puhar as punishment. This suggests a certain suddenness, a catastrophe. As for the period of these epics, the evidence is highly circumstantial and based on a chain of reasoning. So&so mentioned in this book, therefore this precedes him, etc., with the time of so&so itself is lost in the mists of time. According to some authors, Ilango & Sattanar (author of Manimekalai) were contemporaries. But the fact that Puhar was a thriving city according to Ilango and past its prime according to Sattanar suggests a chronological order to some others.
#2 MBZI
I don`t think science is the solution for every disaster. Global warming can be slowed down by exercising caution not by new technology. At any rate, adaptation of new technology again comes down to human factors.
There`s quite a bit of talk about a warning system for future Tsunamis. Given that we have very little history or cultural memory of Tsunamis, I`d think this would not be a very effective idea. To give an extreme example, we could deploy the best technology to plan against an asteroid impact. But it would be ineffective since we have no experience & no training.
I am told that right after the first waves hit, huge crowd of gawkers and concerned folk gathered at the beaches in TN. Clearly this was because they had no clue what was going on. If a second wave had hit, they probably would have kept away but no such thing happened (fortunately) and the possibility of something like this remains theoretical. Should another tidal wave strike again, you can expect gawkers to get back there again. Disasters are prevented only if they occur with a certain frequency and people can be conditioned to react. I am not sure technology is going to help here.
#1 Veeresh
Nagappattinam continued to be a source of smuggled goods until into the 90s. Easing of import restrictions put an end to the smuggling activity. You could get gillette blades, japanese cassette tapes and chinese Hero pens from walking into any of the tea stalls.
#5 Posted by rsridhar on December 29, 2004 12:17:39 pm
re: lost civilisations and Poompuhar
A common thread among ancient literature and epics is the deluge and lost cities or civilisations, even predating the destruction of Pompei. Grandeur of Poopmpuhar has not been forgotten even today. Graham Hancock in his fascinating book (he is a marine biologist who has explored the lost city of Poompuhar, Dwaraka etc) ``Underworld: the mysterious Origin of Civilizations`` has some interesting things to say.
``Looking for evidence of ancient cataclysmic floods, Underworld explores up-to-date geological and climatological research on what may have happened during the last 17,000 years. Central to Hancock`s investigation are inundation maps created by Dr. Glen Milne of Durham University which show vast tracts of mostly coastal land which were submerged by three waves of cataclysmic flooding between 17,000 and 8,000 years ago. The area of land -- the best quality habitable land of that time -- lost to the sea was huge: 5 percent of the earth`s surface or 25 million square kilometers. While such maps cannot be 100 percent accurate, Hancock believes they are accurate enough to support his theories.``
One can read about Poompuhar and the recent archeology in the following url:
http://www.grahamhancock.com/underworld
sridhar
A common thread among ancient literature and epics is the deluge and lost cities or civilisations, even predating the destruction of Pompei. Grandeur of Poopmpuhar has not been forgotten even today. Graham Hancock in his fascinating book (he is a marine biologist who has explored the lost city of Poompuhar, Dwaraka etc) ``Underworld: the mysterious Origin of Civilizations`` has some interesting things to say.
``Looking for evidence of ancient cataclysmic floods, Underworld explores up-to-date geological and climatological research on what may have happened during the last 17,000 years. Central to Hancock`s investigation are inundation maps created by Dr. Glen Milne of Durham University which show vast tracts of mostly coastal land which were submerged by three waves of cataclysmic flooding between 17,000 and 8,000 years ago. The area of land -- the best quality habitable land of that time -- lost to the sea was huge: 5 percent of the earth`s surface or 25 million square kilometers. While such maps cannot be 100 percent accurate, Hancock believes they are accurate enough to support his theories.``
One can read about Poompuhar and the recent archeology in the following url:
http://www.grahamhancock.com/underworld
sridhar
#6 Posted by dost_mittar on December 29, 2004 2:49:09 pm
soysauce:
A beautiful story. One wonders whose curse has caused the present catastrophe!
PS: You have finally proven harimou wrong about you:)
A beautiful story. One wonders whose curse has caused the present catastrophe!
PS: You have finally proven harimou wrong about you:)
#7 Posted by M.B.Z.Isphahani on December 29, 2004 4:08:29 pm
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#8 Posted by harimau on December 29, 2004 5:57:21 pm
Ref Asli-Masanamuthu #5
[John Simpson indeed! I have asked Chowk editors to credit me as the author.]
Your knowledge of English is rather limited. If you want to sex up your name, you could have tried John Sexton, sexton being a grave-digger and about as close to ``Masanamuthu`` (Smashaan-Moti) as you can get.
[John Simpson indeed! I have asked Chowk editors to credit me as the author.]
Your knowledge of English is rather limited. If you want to sex up your name, you could have tried John Sexton, sexton being a grave-digger and about as close to ``Masanamuthu`` (Smashaan-Moti) as you can get.
#9 Posted by harimau on December 29, 2004 5:57:21 pm
Ref dost-mittar #6
[soysauce:
You have finally proven harimou wrong about you:) ]
DM-ji, you might want to enlighten Asli-Masanamuthu about whether Madhavi (with the aspirated `dh`) is a Sanskrit name or not!
I also wonder why Kannagi was named ``Kannagi`` and not ``Senthamizh Selvi`` or ``Love Queen``!
[soysauce:
You have finally proven harimou wrong about you:) ]
DM-ji, you might want to enlighten Asli-Masanamuthu about whether Madhavi (with the aspirated `dh`) is a Sanskrit name or not!
I also wonder why Kannagi was named ``Kannagi`` and not ``Senthamizh Selvi`` or ``Love Queen``!
#10 Posted by harimau on December 29, 2004 5:57:21 pm
Ref dost-mittar #6
[soysauce:
You have finally proven harimou wrong about you:) ]
The only reason any Masanamuthu would go to Nagapattinam would be to make a pilgrimage to nearby Tirukkuvalai, the birth-place of the Elder Son of Mother Tamil-Doctor Artist Leader the Fund of Compassion.
Asli-Masanamuthu, if you noticed, quoted a translation by Alain Danielou. Why couldn`t he translate the relevant portion himself? Because while the Masanamuthus talk a good game about the grandeur of Tamil, they haven`t got a clue how to read and understand ancient Tamil literature. Nor would they have a book on `Silappathikaram` in their houses.
Asli-Masanamuthus derive their knowledge of `Silappathikaram` or the City of Puhar from the cheap movie `Poompuhar`, scripted by Doctor Artist Leader the Fund of Compassion and starring ``Kazhagak kanmanikal`` (literally, ``the apple of the eye of the DMK`` -- this is how flunkies of the DMK are referred to, I kid you not!) SS Rajendran and his wife Vijayakumari, the Queen of Tear-Jerkers (and incidentally, the paramour of Doctor Artist Leader the Fund of Compassion).
Carnatic music composers Thyagaraja and Muthuswami Deekshitar have referred to legends of the sea attempting to invade the land in Nagapattinam in their songs written on the deities presiding over the famous temples in that town. Deekshitar in his song ``Soundara Rajam`` (Raga Brindavana Saranga -- ``Brindabani`` to you Northies) describes the Lord as ``ambudhi garva nigraham`` (quelling the arrogance of the ocean). Tyagaraja in his kriti ``Karmame Balavanda Maya`` (Raga Saveri) states ``Varidhi madi garvinci yeevasudhaku ta ranencaci ninnu`` (when the sea spurred by arrogance threatened to overwhelm the land, you humbled his onslaught). So there have been local legends, probably backed up by real incidents, about large sea waves trying to destroy the town.
PS. I, having gone to a Tamil-medium school and having chosen to read a second course in Tamil in place of Sanskrit, actually learnt about 200 lines of Silappathikaram`s ``Vazhakku Urai Kaathai`` (Canto on the Presentation of the Case to the King) and can still recall most of the lines. It opens with the King`s guard announcing the arrival of Kannagi:
``Vazhi! Em Chezhiya Vazhi! Thennava Vazhi!
Pazhiyodu patara Panchava Vazhi!...``
I just noticed how the words are liberally sprinkled with that sound loosely transcribed as ``zh``. As Asli-Masanamuthu once called it, it is is the Brahminometer... Asli-Masanamuthus can`t get that tongue-twister out of their mouths!
[soysauce:
You have finally proven harimou wrong about you:) ]
The only reason any Masanamuthu would go to Nagapattinam would be to make a pilgrimage to nearby Tirukkuvalai, the birth-place of the Elder Son of Mother Tamil-Doctor Artist Leader the Fund of Compassion.
Asli-Masanamuthu, if you noticed, quoted a translation by Alain Danielou. Why couldn`t he translate the relevant portion himself? Because while the Masanamuthus talk a good game about the grandeur of Tamil, they haven`t got a clue how to read and understand ancient Tamil literature. Nor would they have a book on `Silappathikaram` in their houses.
Asli-Masanamuthus derive their knowledge of `Silappathikaram` or the City of Puhar from the cheap movie `Poompuhar`, scripted by Doctor Artist Leader the Fund of Compassion and starring ``Kazhagak kanmanikal`` (literally, ``the apple of the eye of the DMK`` -- this is how flunkies of the DMK are referred to, I kid you not!) SS Rajendran and his wife Vijayakumari, the Queen of Tear-Jerkers (and incidentally, the paramour of Doctor Artist Leader the Fund of Compassion).
Carnatic music composers Thyagaraja and Muthuswami Deekshitar have referred to legends of the sea attempting to invade the land in Nagapattinam in their songs written on the deities presiding over the famous temples in that town. Deekshitar in his song ``Soundara Rajam`` (Raga Brindavana Saranga -- ``Brindabani`` to you Northies) describes the Lord as ``ambudhi garva nigraham`` (quelling the arrogance of the ocean). Tyagaraja in his kriti ``Karmame Balavanda Maya`` (Raga Saveri) states ``Varidhi madi garvinci yeevasudhaku ta ranencaci ninnu`` (when the sea spurred by arrogance threatened to overwhelm the land, you humbled his onslaught). So there have been local legends, probably backed up by real incidents, about large sea waves trying to destroy the town.
PS. I, having gone to a Tamil-medium school and having chosen to read a second course in Tamil in place of Sanskrit, actually learnt about 200 lines of Silappathikaram`s ``Vazhakku Urai Kaathai`` (Canto on the Presentation of the Case to the King) and can still recall most of the lines. It opens with the King`s guard announcing the arrival of Kannagi:
``Vazhi! Em Chezhiya Vazhi! Thennava Vazhi!
Pazhiyodu patara Panchava Vazhi!...``
I just noticed how the words are liberally sprinkled with that sound loosely transcribed as ``zh``. As Asli-Masanamuthu once called it, it is is the Brahminometer... Asli-Masanamuthus can`t get that tongue-twister out of their mouths!
#11 Posted by sadna on December 30, 2004 12:24:11 am
soysauce #5
There are temple traditions in Kerala based on Kannagi where her tale is recited over 10 days during the yearly temple festival.
I went looking for more information online and came across these:
http://www.hssworld.org/homepage/html/boudhik/ekatmata_stotra/kannagi.html
and
http://www.geocities.com/promiserani2/co1100.html
`` The 3rd century author of the early Tamil epic Silappadigaaram (cilappadikAram), he was the son of a Chera King (in Kerala) and the youngest brother of King Cheran Chenguttuvan.
ILango is believed to have likely been a Jain (or perhaps a Buddhist), though the epic describes many features similar to those ascribed to the Hindu god Vishnu. He was also among those who challenged astrology and became a saint and monk. It is said that once when the king was traveling through the mountains, tribal girls told him of a mysterious woman who had recently come among them and who had soon after ascended to heaven. They said that this woman was missing her left breast, and that she was a goddess of chastity. The king assigned his brother, ILango, to collect the full story of the mysterious woman and write it as a book of verse. The story narrates the history of 3 kingdoms: Chera (western), Chola (eastern), and Pandian (in the middle of South India). Silapadikaram was written between 200 - 300 AD. The story of Jeweled Anklets, is rooted in the ordinary lives of the early Tamils of the Pandyan Kingdom.``
Also this:
``Vadavaraiyai mattaakki is a chapter from the Silappadikaaram made famous by MS Subbulakshmi.
Silappadikaaram is among the earliest works which describe the music and dance of India. From it, we gain knowledge of early ragas, concepts and terms used in music, and many folk songs. The work has 6 chapters on music: Arangetrukadai, Kanal Vari, Venirkadai, Vettuvavari, Kunrakuravai and Aychiyarkuravai. It refers to 11 folk dances: Kadayam, Ayirani, Marakkal, Kudai, Thudi, Alliyam, Mal, Kumbham, Pedu, Pavai, Pandarangam & Kotti.
Two commentaries on the Silappadikaram by Adiyarkkunallar and Arumpadavurai describe the music, dance, and literature contained in the book.``
Re sea flooding - Dwarka too was supposed to have been destroyed by an angry sea. There are remains of a submerged city(ies) discovered there too.
Re educating the general public about a once-in-a-century disaster - just like fire drills, disaster drills can also be held, at least in schools and colleges. It is also not very different from telling people to get their children immunized. It is a matter of wanting to.
There are temple traditions in Kerala based on Kannagi where her tale is recited over 10 days during the yearly temple festival.
I went looking for more information online and came across these:
http://www.hssworld.org/homepage/html/boudhik/ekatmata_stotra/kannagi.html
and
http://www.geocities.com/promiserani2/co1100.html
`` The 3rd century author of the early Tamil epic Silappadigaaram (cilappadikAram), he was the son of a Chera King (in Kerala) and the youngest brother of King Cheran Chenguttuvan.
ILango is believed to have likely been a Jain (or perhaps a Buddhist), though the epic describes many features similar to those ascribed to the Hindu god Vishnu. He was also among those who challenged astrology and became a saint and monk. It is said that once when the king was traveling through the mountains, tribal girls told him of a mysterious woman who had recently come among them and who had soon after ascended to heaven. They said that this woman was missing her left breast, and that she was a goddess of chastity. The king assigned his brother, ILango, to collect the full story of the mysterious woman and write it as a book of verse. The story narrates the history of 3 kingdoms: Chera (western), Chola (eastern), and Pandian (in the middle of South India). Silapadikaram was written between 200 - 300 AD. The story of Jeweled Anklets, is rooted in the ordinary lives of the early Tamils of the Pandyan Kingdom.``
Also this:
``Vadavaraiyai mattaakki is a chapter from the Silappadikaaram made famous by MS Subbulakshmi.
Silappadikaaram is among the earliest works which describe the music and dance of India. From it, we gain knowledge of early ragas, concepts and terms used in music, and many folk songs. The work has 6 chapters on music: Arangetrukadai, Kanal Vari, Venirkadai, Vettuvavari, Kunrakuravai and Aychiyarkuravai. It refers to 11 folk dances: Kadayam, Ayirani, Marakkal, Kudai, Thudi, Alliyam, Mal, Kumbham, Pedu, Pavai, Pandarangam & Kotti.
Two commentaries on the Silappadikaram by Adiyarkkunallar and Arumpadavurai describe the music, dance, and literature contained in the book.``
Re sea flooding - Dwarka too was supposed to have been destroyed by an angry sea. There are remains of a submerged city(ies) discovered there too.
Re educating the general public about a once-in-a-century disaster - just like fire drills, disaster drills can also be held, at least in schools and colleges. It is also not very different from telling people to get their children immunized. It is a matter of wanting to.
#12 Posted by nb on December 30, 2004 7:35:00 am
John Simpson? I was mighty impressed at yet another white person who appeared to be an expert on ancient classical Indian literature!
Thanks for the facts, but it could have been made a little more interesting and less dry, given it is such a fascinating story. I hope you and yours were not affected by the tsunami.
Thanks for the facts, but it could have been made a little more interesting and less dry, given it is such a fascinating story. I hope you and yours were not affected by the tsunami.
#13 Posted by soysauce on December 30, 2004 9:26:02 am
I can`t say I got the point of this article.
However if a disaster drill ain`t gonna cost much and COULD save a few lives its worth it dont` u think? What do u have 2 lose? India cud easily afford the 10, 20 million bucks?
However if a disaster drill ain`t gonna cost much and COULD save a few lives its worth it dont` u think? What do u have 2 lose? India cud easily afford the 10, 20 million bucks?
#14 Posted by DrDr on December 30, 2004 9:26:02 am
#11 sadna
Alain Danielou says in his preface: ``...provides us with an astonishing amount of information about the civilization of the period -its arts, customs, religion, and philosophy - as well as a political map of Sount India and the names of a number of North Indian monarchs, which may, one day, permit us to date accurately the events it relates.``
He also speculates that the absence of any mention of the Pallava dynasty (credited with the erection of Mahabalipuram temples) implies a period before that, and somewhere around 200 CE.
The description of various musical and dance styles and of muscial instruments is very lucid and detailed, something we hated when made to learn by rote in high school, but have come to appreciate over time.
Ilango`s command of Tamil suggests that it was widely used in present-day Kerala. An obvious point perhaps.
Re - the other point, just as school kids in the West Coast do not have tornado drills, nor midwesterners have earthquake drills, it seems somewhat pointless to train people to deal with freakish events.
Alain Danielou says in his preface: ``...provides us with an astonishing amount of information about the civilization of the period -its arts, customs, religion, and philosophy - as well as a political map of Sount India and the names of a number of North Indian monarchs, which may, one day, permit us to date accurately the events it relates.``
He also speculates that the absence of any mention of the Pallava dynasty (credited with the erection of Mahabalipuram temples) implies a period before that, and somewhere around 200 CE.
The description of various musical and dance styles and of muscial instruments is very lucid and detailed, something we hated when made to learn by rote in high school, but have come to appreciate over time.
Ilango`s command of Tamil suggests that it was widely used in present-day Kerala. An obvious point perhaps.
Re - the other point, just as school kids in the West Coast do not have tornado drills, nor midwesterners have earthquake drills, it seems somewhat pointless to train people to deal with freakish events.
#15 Posted by soysauce on December 30, 2004 9:47:15 am
Hmmm. #14, I suppose is by DrDr since #13 is mine.
DrDr, there are two separate things - one is a warning system which is always good to have & the other is preparing people for disasters which is hard to do for freakish incidents. The point of the article is that the incident, which we grew up learning about, the destruction of Puhar, may have been due to a tidal wave. Doesn`t seem so extraordinary now, but it would have just a week ago.
nb: Alain Danielou, whose translation I have quoted from is a white man, fwiw. If indians can excel in english lit what`s such a big deal about foreigners becoming proficient in our languages?
Tamil has a history of foreigners - missionaries & such - learning the language and composing literary works so a foreigner commenting on Tamil literature would not be unusual.
DrDr, there are two separate things - one is a warning system which is always good to have & the other is preparing people for disasters which is hard to do for freakish incidents. The point of the article is that the incident, which we grew up learning about, the destruction of Puhar, may have been due to a tidal wave. Doesn`t seem so extraordinary now, but it would have just a week ago.
nb: Alain Danielou, whose translation I have quoted from is a white man, fwiw. If indians can excel in english lit what`s such a big deal about foreigners becoming proficient in our languages?
Tamil has a history of foreigners - missionaries & such - learning the language and composing literary works so a foreigner commenting on Tamil literature would not be unusual.
#16 Posted by ijaz_gul on December 30, 2004 11:49:42 am
Beautiful reminder. There is no doubt that Tamil more than fishermen had also been great sailers and spread their ethnic groups right upto the pacific. The epic may well be a historic truth that needs to be investigated and researched.
This also reminds me of the great civilisation of the Lost River in Pakistan and partly in India. In january, I would be making what would be the first foray into this inhospitable region of NARA and criss cross allover on foot and camels to see the area for myself. Sattelite pics indicate huge lagoons and legend has it that crocodiles live there. According to local folklore in some areas, camels and men just sink into the sand. Some say that an entire civilisation lies buried on the dunes.
So lets wait and see.
Cheerios
This also reminds me of the great civilisation of the Lost River in Pakistan and partly in India. In january, I would be making what would be the first foray into this inhospitable region of NARA and criss cross allover on foot and camels to see the area for myself. Sattelite pics indicate huge lagoons and legend has it that crocodiles live there. According to local folklore in some areas, camels and men just sink into the sand. Some say that an entire civilisation lies buried on the dunes.
So lets wait and see.
Cheerios
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