Bharati Mukherjee : The American Dreamer

plats8 #86 Sorry, I think you can replace intrapolate with extrapolate. I sometimes use words that I think should exist, like polylithic.

rahul:

Digressions on Storytelling

i will post this also on amrita`s (strangers in california) board since this board is about to disappear..perhaps we can continue this there?

rgds

t

temporal, The history of poetry in the subcontinent goes far far back. I wonder, why does poetry always precede prose in all the civilizations. Anyways, your digression sure seems interesting. I dont know much about the Arabic and Persian legacy of Urdu poetry and it would be interesting if you could write on that.

pps: rahul the promised digression (heheh am motivating myself;)) might interest you as both qissas (stories) and shaeri was more of an oral tradition in the subcontinent and the guttenberg revolution hardly made a dent in the subcontinent... with the end of mughal era...the oral tradition whitered and the printed word never quite succeeded in replacing the oral qissa-shaeri`s popularity and mass appeal...the tradition of qissa-narration around campfire at dusk was relegated to nani-dadi story telling and the shaeri tradition in a mutlilated form survived through the mushairas..with the modern ghazal being treated as a step sister and the naz`m not even allowed that couretsy...despite the efforts of Halis of the day...khair more on all that later...

amrita:

...still waiting to find out if the decline of vern is emerging on both sides of the border...

...can give you a mixed answer, based on random observations and conversaton with friends in the peripheral trade...pen-brush-for-sale trade;)

...if anything the picture is gloomier over there...there is a dedicated but diminishing group of writers fighting shylockian printing/marketig costs...they survive and a few thrive...mainly because (i suspect) of their undaunted passion that over comes adversaries...

...those who write in dogma/ritual laden religious fiction thrive despite costs thanks to uncle george and his neoconzion cohorts...sub-terranean sarcasm, if detected was intended...

lve

t

ps: am pressed for time but feel like doing a digression on urdu short stories...maybe a little later

Amrita #87, The commercial framework for vern lit (and thanks for all the abbrs) is sure imp, but it is also true that most of the important and great lit has been written in the absence of the framework, by writers who died with a handful of fellow writers being aware of their greatness.One feels for them, but yeah, they lived the life that they wanted to.I have a theory that commercial framework is imp with regards to pulp,but not towards real great writers.My point is, great work is still being done in vern lit. It is never going to hit us in the face from some bestseller lists , and not that we owe it to anyone,but it is there,if one takes the trouble to hunt it down.
temporal, somethig about the introspectiveness of Hindi poetry has to do with the fact that there was no market for it . When you are not writing for an audience, you do become introspective. I had thought to do something bigger on modern hindi poetry,and so I was delaying your answer, maybe I will do it someday.
Subroto, I was on Neruda and Paz, and then I discovered Arthur Rimbaud, who stopped writing when he was 21.Try him.

Rahul #82,

What does that mean - ``intrapolate her real life experiences on to chowk ``. Could
you please elaborate ? And how exactly does that justify making things up to fit
a pre-determined agenda, as you go along, in any sort of a conversation ?

Excuse me, but I would expect consistency of arguments in a coffee table discussion
as well.

Saminasha #83,

You`re right, all of us aren`t endowed with a delicate sense of sarcasm. Seemingly,
only people who agree with you have access to it. Now that we have that Kodak
moment out of the way, have you had the time to repond to my rather simple
questions ? Yes or No ?

The poetry site gentleman`s name is Asif Naqshbandi and the essay by Vikram Chandra made my day.

#76 Harish ``Sahitya academy brought to translations about the same hardiness that Bata brand brought to school shoes!``
But the fact still remains that they were still good for your sole. The academy translations remain good for the soul. True not the sole arbiter but still an exposure to a world that while so near was so far away. There are other publishing houses that are publishing translations of vernacular lit. Penguin India had published apart from Manto, Basheer, Verma (hindi) etc. Then there is Rupa, Kali for women. Alas most of my books are still in my house in India otherwise I woud have written more.
Chinese writers - well this has been my tear of Gao Xiniang (One Man`s Bible, Soul Mountain) and wow do I want more. Apro Vikram Seth`s translations of chinese poets was pretty good.
Also it comes down to personal choice - how am I to define what makes a good read for you? With Rushdie I think you need to know the language he writes in - Hugme (Hindi Urdu, Gujrati, Marathi & English) - and also maybe have stayed in Bombay to get some of his ``inside`` jokes. As far as I am concerned ``The Ground Beneath Her Feet`` was a return to the vintage Rushdie.
All my friends/relatives (the younger lot) loved Upmanayu Chaterjee`s ``English August`` - so did but many of the younger civil servants said that they could really relate to it.
South American writers Marquez is good but what about the poetry of Octavio Paz
EPITAPH FOR A POET
He wanted to sing, sing
to forget
his true life of lies.
and remember
his lying life of lies.

temporal#80
Vikram`s article, among many other things, is more about the second part of your post #72 . The language, metaphors and subjects used by desi writers, and the attempt of their classification thereby.
As far as ``immigrant angst`` is concerned,or for that matter any other criteria, I hold this view , that writings can and should be classified according to their subject matter, but not according to the writers origins, and it certainly doesnt fit in a group as globally pervasive and hetereogenous as Indian Writing in English.In that case, sooner or later, some of the writers who found themselves as de facto members of such groups ,feel uncomfortable and rightly so. Thats why I mentioned Amitava Ghosh, who made his resentment towards this type of classfication pretty clear when he withdrew his book from the commonwealth writers prize.
Nevertheless,there is a distinct trend of an Indian English peppered with many Indian terms and phrases that was seen among others in Rushdie.This type of analysis may be useful from some angles,such as the recognition of a formal flavour of language and the official inclusion of some words and phrases into contemporary lexicon.

Hmm... As far as judging writers on a level field goes - there is a difference between The English Novel and A Novel in English. Since we are talking imm lit and angst, has anyone read Trainspotting? There`s an English Novel about characters stuck in a British sub culture. On the other hand Amitav Ghosh writes Novels in English. But yes, in the end you turn pages because you like what you`ve read so far, unless you`re one of those people who like to prominently display bookshelfs full of authors one ought to read because the New York Times tells you so. And since Marquez has already popped up, Isabel Allende is an education in writing without angst about imm in both, her novels as well as her wonderful nonfiction.

And yes, vern lit does form a very imp weave in the subcontinental social fabric. Problem is, fresh blood is a necessity if it is to survive and there are few writers today who can afford to write full time for the peanuts a lot of vern lit pays you. Not all , but a lot. That said, Melville among others tried the part time route and came out okay. And generations of women did it too. BTW, still waiting to find out if the decline of vern is emerging on both sides of the border. Or is it something Indian? Too bad there arent any Chinese on this board. UNless one of you reads Mandarin or Cantonese in your free time?

As for SR, there has to be some compensation for being hunted down, banned, reviled and even dissed by Naipaul in print. Money could be it but I think snobbery is much better. And I`ll read his new book when it comes out later this year - but I`ll get it from the library! :)

Rahul,

Careful....not everyone`s sarcasm meter is so finely tuned....


Plats,

Have you read the essay Guarded Tongues? Yes or no? Its quite accessible.

plats8 #73 About Samina , as I already mentioned, she does intrapolate her real life experieneces into chowk. It will make more sense to you if you regard this as a coffee table discussion rather than a court case.

Re:HN#75

Since you mention Marquez, I was wondering if you have read his book - ``Love in the time of Cholera``? It is definitely the most amazing book I have ever read about human relationships.

paging bina, shandy, jawahara

rahul:

will read the 16 page p/o of vikram later...maybe... am expecting company...and i hope it covers the `angst` query i posed;)

...i`d rather have the outpourings from the `fire in the belly`...that certain enigma ..that `passion` that drives...rather than `angst` ...but yes, let me read vikram...

romair:

good luck with zulfikar...he is under-rated...and shuns the scratch-me-back crowd...

re: shelving...shelve it:)

...we`ve exchanged posts over this many times...to wit...i do not catalogue english writers based on their desi origins...

rgds

t

Amrita #75
``In closing, the snobbish Mr Rushdie. If you were Salman Rushdie - wouldnt you be a snob?``
I dont know what exactly do you mean by that, but if PadmaLakshmi comes with the package, I would certainly be snobbish.
Your points about the vern are well noted. I would like to make one more point. Vern is sometimes part of a social movement, and that has to be in vern only. There is a lot of Marathi dalit literature, for them English is an eltist language. Can I imagine Nagarjun writing his poorbi marxist poetry in English? I cant. And this is not to preclude the English writers from writing that way, only it is less likely. So, vern lieterature represents a very important social canon of sub continental literature. Without that the picture is incomplete.
plats8 #73 , I have always had a very warm corner for Bangla lit.I think saratchandra was a writer way way ahead of his tiime. And my ``Not to prove a point`` was about my question itself. Not towards the answer. as regards Sunil , I have loved some of his novels.Bimal Mitra, though very good, became quite predictable in the end. All his novels were similar,
Temporal #72 About your English question, I suggest you read the Vikram Chandra article posted earlier. Some desi english writers have done funny stuff with english.They say it is their English and they are free to do whatever they choose with it.
HN #76 Please tell me something about Basheer , as a great fan of Borges I would like to know about him. I think that Sahitya Academy has done some service at least, many writers have been better known because of them, like thakazi shivshankar pillay.
About Manto, please dont argue over the person who wrote toba tek singh :-)
I remember reading an anecdote though. Manto was being referred to as ``hamara manto`` by some pakistani delegates in a literary conference. This irked Ismat no end and she rose and roared ``Manto hamara hai!!! Who wants to argue with me over that? ``
And since vern plugging is going on, anyone who reads Hindi should read Rahi Masoom raza`s novels. Topi Shukla, Aadha Gaon ....I rate them with the bests I have ever read.
Also, since the talk about translation is going on, I think it is fair to mention transliteration..Hindi and Urdu are basically the same languages.There is so much stuff that we are denied just because of the chasm of scripts. I think Hindi lit in Nastaliq should have a decent enough market in Pakistan and vice versa.