The “D” Word

I am usually not in a mood to write on Chowk after a hectic Friday. But a half hour trip to a warm steam room can rejuvenate the tired and stubborn muscles. Now, I have some passion left to add a few more thoughts on this subject. I would appreciate if the insecure nincompoops stay out of my way. I have very little tolerance and no respect for a budtameez and budlihaaz female on Chowk. Well, if you are a female reader who falls in the above category, I suggest maintaining a decent distance from my hard hitting posts. That`s for your own well-being and peace of mind. See, some men can be kind and sweet in their own way!

Why is mad woman ZahraJ promoting ladies to divorce????

Yikes, Urstruly! you say,
``Consensus is the Truth.``
Where did you pull that ridiculous statement from? Eeeckk!!!
Actually Romair is saying that Bukhari is not interpreting anything, he is merely narrating second, third, fourth, fifth and so on and so forth statements attributed to the Prophet.
Yes, I do believe my logic is as valid as any because my actions depend on my intentions dictated by my logic.
And we do live in a very intolerant world where Hadith thumping self righteous people are always locking horns with each other; Shia and Sunni are a prime example.
Also we will all be judged by God Almighty separately and not our consensus.

Hamidm #various: A piece of advice. You can take it or leave it:

Hopefully some day you will realize that if one wants to communicate with people who speak and understand and accept only French, then one should communicate and argue with them in French. And if one is speaking and arguing and communicating with someone who speaks and understands (and accepts) only Spanish, then one should argue in Spanish.

People will only change their minds on issues, if one argues things from within their own domain, in a language they are willing to accept. Speaking very loud French with a Spanish-speaker, or vice-versa, usually only results in people hardening their positions even furthur.

Urstruly #102: ``If we further extend this logic, then Bokharis interpretation should be as valid as yours and mine. If we accept that then why are you whining about Bokhari`s interpretation being wrong.``

Nobody is arguing about Bukhari`s interpretation of the Quran being wrong. Quite the contrary. Had he interpreted the Quran, it would be considered an interpretation from one person, which could be traced back to the Quran. Nothing wrong with that.

The point being discussed are the hadith. He added these, on his own. He, himself, did not trace them back to the Quran. These were not an interpreation of the Quran. They were additions. This is why you cannot trace back the hadith about, ``women in hell`` to the Quran. Because Bukhari, himself, does not provide any reference to the Quran. He wasn`t interpreting any Quranic verse when he came up with the hadith. This is why all his references are towards people. So and so was told by so and so`s grandfather, who was told by so and so`s uncle etc. going back through countries over a time period of more than 200 years.

If you don`t believe me, then kindly highlight any references next to hadith that point to the Quran....Including the one`s that you posted........

P.S. I am still wating for any information on the parchment of the hadith regarding women that you quoted........Can we assume that you have no such information and the Bukhari does not provide any either.........

Romair #85

I discarded Quran? How? By jumping up and down?

So basically your contention in your post has now become to the point that every interpretation of Quran is valid;hence by this logic your interpretation is as valid as mine. If we further extend this logic, then Bokharis interpretation should be as valid as yours and mine. If we accept that then why are you whining about Bokhari`s interpretation being wrong. If somehow only you have a God given right to declare others peoples interpretation wrong then others should have an equal right to declare your interpretation wrong. Frankly, if we follow your approach, then there will be an eternal conflict between every individual and every group- where everybody will be screaming that he is right and all others wrong. But thanks God we do not live in such an intolerant world that only exists in your own mind. Us the human beings have invented an institution called ``consensus`` that leads us thru the situations of stalemate. ``Consensus`` is the truth.

Zahra,

You go on with your righteous self!

Sajal,

Good to see you on chowk as well-hope you stick around. Its a thankless, time consuming and aggravating activity.

ZahraJ #94 You made a very good point.

I am usually not in a mood to write on Chowk after a hectic Friday. But a half hour trip to a warm steam room can rejuvenate the tired and stubborn muscles. Now, I have some passion left to add a few more thoughts on this subject. I would appreciate if the insecure nincompoops stay out of my way. I have very little tolerance and no respect for a budtameez and budlihaaz male on Chowk. Well, if you are a male reader who falls in the above category, I suggest maintaining a decent distance from my hard hitting posts. That`s for your own well-being and peace of mind. See, some women can be kind and sweet in their own way!

There are a few other points that must be highlighted on the said subject:

a) Women may initiate a divorce or get a divorce. This is not a matter of ego. If one is living in hell then one should not wait to be shown the door out. One should take a proactive approach to save one`s life and sanity without losing any time. There is one thing that is quite difficult or can be difficult for women when they take the step. Once they are used to having their own place, it`s difficult to go back and live with one`s parents/siblings no matter how close you are. It`s a basic requirement of an adult to live independantly without any restrictions as well as interference. This is a very personal perspective. Some women like to live in a joint family system since they have grown up in that kind of environment. Others prefer to live independently. If you are in the latter category then it`s very difficult for you to survive in the eastern culture since it thrives on the concept of living together (the hodge podge life style).

Rest Later,

ZahraJ
Try expanding your vocabulary. BTW since you got personal, I feel obliged to give you a bit of advice. What`s with all the anger? Pipe down a bit.

There r states in the USA that r reconsidering nofault divorce. U have 2 show that the marriage is irreconcilable. Conservatives r worried that this divorce thing has gone too far. If u guys in Pakistan hold off & dont rush into anything well catch up w/ u pretty soon :)

ZahraJ bravo!!
Every woman has a right to be happy and I agree with you. You get married to have a happy and meaningful married life and that is what it should be. Sacrifice is good but not when it leads to self loathing and insanity. Only a strong woman has the guts to initiate a divorce and then make it on her own. I applaud every woman who stands up for her rights and has the guts to defy the hypocritical norms of society.

....... it is heart warming to watch the koranites and the hadithites battle it out while we ordinary men and women with mundane problems like nagging mother-in-laws, ugly husbands, frigid wives, financial difficulties and erectile dysfunctions watch in awe and wonder from the sidelines ..........

...... i am anxiously waiting to see what the scholars prescribe for us ..........mother-in-law beheadings, extreme maeovers, penile implants, equity loans, marital counseling, light beatings, banishment from the bed, menage a trois or just plain old cold showers?

It`s extremely stupid and silly to show symapthy with the ones who opted for a divorce. Do you ever sympathize with someone who opted for marriage or decided to stay single? How do you know that he or she is not ready to jump into a hell of their own?

By stating the brief episodes of 2 divorces, I was not trying to attract sympathy for the women under discussion. I wanted to make sure that the reader knew of women who are alive and kicking in their personal and professional lives. Yes, being in a marital relationship did not work out for them but that`s not ``it`` in life. There are many men who get divorced right and left ... they move on. They do not stop going to work, having a drink or two, keeping their darhis and moochain...they go on with life. If the society cannot wake up and respect the integral component = women, for who and what they are then that society has no right to survive.

I have never been the follower of the Pakistani Society even while I was growing up there. I have my beef with many traditional buk buk rites, but there are cases of individuals that need to be brought up for they set an example. These women are living in the Pakistani Social System and were brought up to have an identity of their own. Both of them have strong headed mothers who would not have tolerated their daughters mistreatment.

No more comments on this episode. I will have some more in the next few days. Readers, stay tuned.........

Soysauce: It`s useless to shoot a nincompoop messenger. I would rather save the bullet :) Please carry on!

Divorce is difficult in our society even for men. One male friend spoke to me once how he couldnt leave his wife as it would be akin to abandonment even if he had provided for her. Since she wasnt working it would have been even more dreadful for her. So they are still together.
First of all one has to face upto the fact that your parents are going to be hurt, and to compound the issue, friends and relatives will make it worse by feigning sympathy yet getting sadistic pleasure out of it. I guess in Pakistan it`s even more difficult.

Marriage is after all a state of mind. If you are not there in the marriage but just wearing a mask, that is enough for most people. Like you cited in the story about the prophet, I dont know if it`s true but for normal people such situations are difficult to grasp. People grow apart sometimes, or it may become painful just being together. As you said separation can be amicable but it`s difficult- children do get affected. Yet children see so much, some grow up with sexual abuse, some witness violence at home and still they do often get over it and live successful lives. If you have a good relationship with them you can talk to them about it. Eventually though you have to remember that it`s just you in the end. Even if noone else understands you, it`s important to be the real you, even if ostracised and alone, the worst kind of being alone is being with people and yet alone. Live out your dreams, trust yourself, follow your heart, that`s what life is all about. Pick yourself again and move on, it`s not the end of the world if you leave someone or someone leaves you, let them go, let yourself go if that`s what you need to do.