The “D” Word

Re: # 186

Dr.Dr. (is that the Thompson Twins` or Robert Palmer hit) Sattar Sahib, all,

I think there are about ten people with which we could be compatible with for the rest of our lives-and that includes hard work (both of you putting away the Sunday Times at the diner and talking to each other), periods of intense aggravation (those two or three ingrained character traits that you are this close to killing him for!), keeping individual and unit goals as separate and combined as necessary. We arent even beg. scraping the surface of one`s backyard...

Then there is that strand of theory that maintains that marriage is ultimately a battle royale of the genders. There`s a grain of truth in that.

One thing that can be really exciting is supporting each other pursue dreams-as corny as that sounds. We all survive, but we live on our visions and what we can achieve-creatively, professionally, personally and spiritually. The conventional wisdom in marrying whom you ``should`` is that the path is smooth...but I must say, fumbling who you are in all these realms and watching and supporting your partner make his/her way is an amazing process-if both of you are growing at the same time. I`ve seen that quality in the marriages of Pakistani feminist women and men, as well as interracial marriages.

Aisha,

Loved your article. You have a brave woman as a mother. You must honor her and live truthfully, whatever that means, independent of what society`s constuct of it is at the moment.

Divorce is ugly only because it is a testament to how we have been unable to freely determine the tests of conpatibility, for some reason or the other. A happy marriage in my opinion is ability to share your dreams once in a while with another human being. It`s not a living arrangement.

Bravo for your courage and may its rewards be with you.

Aisha F. Sarwari

Further:

To the one who wishes to know about Muslim laws, although not personally applicable, you might find some additional info...a bit different... in my article `The Triple Conspiracy`.

#158 by amit:

I genuinely appreciate your concern. Thankfully, ``personal hell`` is not a constant and I am not a bitter person where relationships are concerned. Therefore, I would like you to not see my articles in the context of my private life. My stand on these issues - politics, gender, society have been formed early and have remained a constant.

I would not reduce my opinions to ``bitterness``. There are many people who are angry about the happenings around them. It is the job of vigilant human beings to question. Please treat me the way you have always done where my writings are concerned. I stand by every single thing I have written...and will never use my life as an excuse.

Thanks...and get back to your old grouses against me as and when it applies!

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sajal (#179):

I can only wish you well and realise that you are now happy with your decision. I have never thought it fit to advice women because only one going through it knows exactly why she is. Each person has different compulsions. At that moment you are not thinking about what ideology you believe in...the sort of crap one often gets to hear about. You would either be branded a stain on feminist thought or a woman who could not keep a relationship going. Both views belong to a unidimensional mindset. You did what you did when you thought it right. That is a more individualistic thing to do. Thank you for sharing.

What struck me about Aisha`s article was the invisible emotional scars she speaks about. Men continue to be my friends and I am not a man-hater in personal interactions at all. From your later post, it is obvious that neither are you. I have seen men go through bad times as well.

I know you are already on your way ahead...believe in that.

- - -
To someone who wanted to know about Indians and Muslims and laws....I am not well-versed with the subject; mine was a court marriage.

Re:sattar2 and Romair

I remember a comedian was once commenting about gay marriage as follows - ``Same Sex Marriage, Different Sex Marriage, it does not matter. After 10 years, there is NO sex in the marriage`` :-)

This is precisely the problem with marriage. The sexual chemistry between any couple starts diminishing after 1 year. If you are very hot with the woman, it may last longer but on the average 1 year is around the time that the passion starts decreasing. After that what sustains you is mental and emotional connection. If you are lucky to have that, the marriage continues successfully. If not, you are miserable and lonely. If you date prior to marriage, there is a greater chance of that connection since you know each other. But that is offset by the decrease in physical passion which is very disappointing given prior feelings. If you have an arranged marriage, it is a complete crapshoot. No wonder, even couples like Brad Pitt and Jennifer Aniston couldn`t make it. So the bottom line is this - life is basically boring and miserable, just enjoy whatever good moments that you are lucky enough to get!!

Thanks Jay! Could you answer the rest of the questions since ZahraJ is upset at kaka and threatened to turn kaka`s bottom amber with spanking? One-thousand will not be enough though: kaka will need one-thousand-and-one as in Arabian Nights..

kaka`s maqsad is to learn and even though kaka expressed his sadness on the divorces (teen talaqaaN) of Versey, Sajal and Zahra, he is being yelled at!!

What is an innocent kaka to do?

RE: 195 Zahra J

It is a relief for us all that your are now ending your barrage :) For a person to stigmatize and stereotype an entire nation of hardworking men and women I think not only is indecent but is inhumane.

May Allah help you through your psychological trauma and your difficult times. The same goes to you and Farzana. Though let me tell you, I have very close friends whose best friends were shot right in front of them, they did not go and blame it on the rest of humanity.

Hum mein aur un mein zameen aur asmaan ka faraq hai. We just had the qurbani eid fly us by, what lesson did we learn? That Hazrat Abraham was willing to sacrifice his son for Allah, that this was a test. Allah tests us all in different ways. Through trials and tribulations as the quran states. To speak out against injustice is definitely a right and is the right to do, but to blatantly stereotype an entire population I believe is not fair and is reprehensible.

I wish you the best in your life, you have not gone through even 1% of the pain that I did, but I`m not going to point my blame on the men and women of the world :) May Allah bless all of those men and women who are sincere in their beliefs and in their deeds.

Shabber

Re: # 188

It was only a few months ago that an indian cort ruled that sending SMS of ``tal;ak talk talak`` is enough for divorce under indian muslim law.

I am sorry but lack of time does not permit to state more nuances, I would like to end my participation on this board with the following that I heard, just recently, from one of my very senior colleagues - a jewish man who has been happily married for almost 36 years.

``Zahra, prior to our marriage when we are dating, my wife told me that if I ever spoke to her in a harsh tone or loud manner or yelled at her then that would be the last day of our marriage. And, in our 36 years of marriage, I have yet to break my promise``.

I was impressed and found that to be very sweet and respectful towards his wife.

That`s true love!

Re: # 183

Saminasha: ``Romair,

Not all people WANT to get married...except for gays and lesbians-and you dont want them to, even tho their marriages are much more successful than het marriages in the Bible Belt.``

Yes, I am against gay marriage. Which is why I cannot declare myself to be secular. Actually I am not fully against gay marraige. I don`t mind my neighbors getting into a gay marriage. I just don`t want my son or daughter getting into one.

And I would have no idea what to do if I got an email from dad, that he had left mom, and had decided to move in with Butt Sahib, next door (not that I have anything against Butt Sahib.....he is a nice guy.........but still). Or if my wife, one day, told me that she was going to leave me for her ex-roomate with the big round........eyes.....Not only would she end up taking half my money, but more importantly how in the world would I explain to my friends back home that my wife left me for a girl...........

So I support gay marraige, as long as someone can gaurantee that my immediate family memebers will not get into one.......

Having said that, you may have just hit upon a unique solution for marriages in Pakistan; specifically for women. How about introducing gay marraige in Pakistan. If women are so fed up with Pakistani wolf males, yet still want a relationship and companionship, not to mention two sets of wedding dresses, why don`t they go for a gay marriage.

Look at the benefits: More jewelry, more dresses, someone to grow old with. Two careers. And no threat of violence, of any kind........

This is why I can`t stand the Pakistani secularists. They are on the forefront of Ahmedi rigths and Christain rights and what not. But tell them to protest for gay marriage, and they say its against their religion........

So this is my solution to all the husband-hunting ladies who are fed up with Pakistani guys.......Go for Pakistani girls..........

See if you discuss something long enough, usually a solution pops up......

Sattar2 Sahib, Ouch to Fagg@t. The proper word to address us is Gay. Lets be civil here.

I think it was Churchill who once said something like … democracy is a lousy system, but it is the best one around. Same seems to apply to the institution of marriage …

I can think of no other human relationship as difficult to manage as a marriage. More often than not mother-in-law turns out to be the anti-christ … the most dreadful product of a marriage … second only to a spouse that just does not get it.

The very concept of soul mate is the result of false advertising from Sunday classifieds. It has misled thousands, and will continue to do so unless we collectively boycott listening to the radio. Marriage is as basic as manual labor done by a brick layer … hard, back-breaking work … day in, day out. It takes time and effort, even in most favorable cases. These are facts as far as I have been able to ascertain …

ZahraJ …

... I hear what you say. Indeed, eastern males have their hang-ups. At the same time, I don’t think their western counterparts are that much better. I find the western society as one that is very much over-stimulated … which in itself causes hosts of problems. Most western women I know are none too happy with their marriages/relationships either. They are mostly divorced with or without live-in boyfriends, sharing custody of kids (which never goes smoothly), and working to make ends meet. I find most of them stressed and at times, down-right depressing … and consequently try to avoid their company altogether. Those who lived together with their partners before getting married don’t seem to be faring much better either. Arguably, the problem lies with males … eastern or western. Which leads me to wonder … how can there be something wrong with a whole half of a species? Could you be overlooking something here?

General comments …

Being in a marriage that works is the best one can possibly hope for. If your spouse loves you, your kids look up to you, your colleagues respect you, and your neighbor does not curse you … you’ve got it made. All else is meaningless sophistry …

Divorce is always an option … one that must be carefully evaluated. Like everything else, it too has consequences … esp. if kids are involved. The grass seems greener on the other side, and that can be misleading at times. On the other hand being in a hellish marriage is also a curse … and one owes it to himself to get out. Considering all the factors, what are the right choices? The way we define happiness in popular culture … is it even attainable? At times, we expect too much out of life … and set ourselves up for disappointment … in marriages, in pursuit of swanky lifestyles. At times, happiness can be found in a cup of good coffee, a cigarette, and a good book … or in having a martini with an old friend … or in an early morning walk in a park … or in going home from work to a 4-year old daughter who is waiting impatiently for me, as I am expected to pickup her favorite ice-cream on my way home …

Life is complicated … too many pitfalls along the way. One must navigate carefully. It takes years and years of making right choices that culminate in a life well lived. If you can look back and find more right choices and fewer regrets … you’re the king ... and it matters none if you are an atheist, a buddhist, a communist, or a fagg@t … more power to you …

#188: Just shut up and get lost! I think that should answer all your questions.

Now, if you did not get the message then be prepared to get the 1000 lashes. I guess I may have to initiate that ``Ideal State``.

romair mian,

......... i am not against marriage per se ........ all i am saying is that it is no big whup and divorce is okay - a lot better than staying in a miserable relationship (not necessarily abusive).......... and desis are not an exception to the rule - maybe i am running in the wrong crowd, but i know a lot of desis who are either divorced or thinking about it, some after 20 plus years ........

To everyone i would like to add:

I was married to a handsome Pakistani pig for 8 yrs but I do know all Pakistani men are not pigs............
My grandfather never raised his voice ever infront of the girls in the family. He used to say they are my little pricesses and they come with blessings from my Prophet ( pbuh). We ever educated in the best schools of lahore and never lacked anything in our life. I never heard a male in my family disrespect a woman in any relationship ever and for me to get into a bad relationship was like hell which i never knew existed. So I know if there are some men like my grandfather, father, my uncles and brothers, then there surely are other men who know how to respect their mothers, wives sisters and daughters but above all how to respect a WOMAN irrespective of her relationship to him.
To hope!!! may we all learn how to treat our women with respect and dignity.

Versey, Sajal and ZahraJ,

It is sad that you guys went through hardships around divorce time. kaka has questions about the procedures of divorce for Muslim Indians.

Did (1) you guys go through divorce proceedings in a Indian civil laws or the Muslim personal laws?

Just as a matter of general perspective, which set of laws is (2) more generous to women?

Can a Muslim (3) choose to be held to a certain set of laws and not the other one?

When is a Muslim Indian (4) identified as a Muslim for the purpose of applying Muslim marital laws? At birth? At matrimony? Or divorce?

If so, can she (5) get out of the bindings of the application of the law regardless of the her commitment to the marital laws. Can she (6) `suddenly` seek the application of Muslim personal law even if she never did register her marriage with the Muslim law courts?

Are the Muslim laws the (7) same for Shia and Qadyanis?

Do (8) other minorities have similar procedures?

Refer to the keywords right after the number assigned.. You can answer even if you are not Muslim or Indian..