The “D” Word

ZahraJ

I do not want to communicate with nincompoop like you. Stay out of my way!!!!

Re:hamidm2#98

Hamid chacha, you are awesome!! Only you can characterize the absurd exchanges between Romair and Urstruly in such hilarious terms!! By the way, I am all for mother-in-law beheadings. I hope both the Quran and the Hadith sanctions that. Heck, I may even convert in that case :-)

Romair # 103

You make convincing arguments. Iam now inclined to think on your lines. But before I do that I would like to understand your method of interpretation of Qura`n, which you so vociferously promote. So here is the whole Chapter ``The Elephant`` in its entirety, posted below, could you please show me how you interpret it:

The Elephant, Chapter 105


105:1 Have you not considered how your Lord dealt with the possessors of the elephant?

105:2 Did He not cause their war to end in confusion,

105:3 And send down (to prey) upon them birds in flocks,

105:4 Casting against them stones of baked clay,

105:5 So He rendered them like straw eaten up?

Im not Soysauce & I dont know Zahraj. 95 aint mine but 96 is.

hamidm #114: ``romair mian,

..... so you are saying that when talking to members of the kkk you have to quote from mein kampf to convince them of their folly ? .......... and do you think communists were converted by showing them what marx really meant ?``

Yes!! Finally you are starting to see the light. Thank God! I have been working on you, longer than I have been working on Urstruly; albeit with much less success in your case. I though you were a gonner and we had lost you to the Evangelists. It`s good to see that there is still hope. Praise the Lord!!, as they say in your political party........

In any case, to convince someone of something, either you have to have the power to force the person to do something, or you have the ability to communicate in their language. For example, if one were to try to convince you that it is wrong for the USA to attack and kill other people, it would be pointless to try to show you pictures of the people being killed. Or surveys of how much they don`t like being attacked. Since you are convinced that the USA`s farts don`t smell and Bush`s sh//t doesn`t stink.

What would, (or may), work, would be to show you how the USA`s attacks would raise your taxes due to the large spending spree they require. Or would harm your Social Security in 15(?) years. Or that it would be the religious right into power in the USA (sorry, wrong example. that one didn`t work). Or how the auto industry may go down the drain if the price of oil kept rising due to these attacks, with you losing your consulting job. Or beer may have to be taxed more (now that one has to work).

The later arguments might convince you and you may change your opinion. Even though the former would definitely not. However, the end result would be the same. You would (might) change your views.

Everyone has certain priorities and beliefs and personality quirks (including you and me). That is what differentiates us. Otherwise the world would consist of 6 billion hamidms or Urstrulys. Just screaming really loud in a shrill manner never convinces anyone. If that were the case, Urstruly, Naqshbandi etc. would be your murids by now. You scream at them about five times a day. Or you would be their murid, by now. Since they do the same. All it has resulted in is both of you hardening your stances, furthur..........

P.S. Why do you keep calling me, ``mian?`` I don`t mind it. It has a nice seductive appeal to it. But I thought that is a word reserved for husbands.

Zahra is right-there are too many horror stories to count. And they most often have these components: an educated, normal prof. woman stuck trying to assuage the ego and childishness of her very insecure (and oftentimes emotionally and physically abusive) husband. In the US, these tensions become even starker. It is really unbelievable what is happening in these marriages.

Re #117
Funny Romair, especially the mian jee thingie.
Mian can mean husband but in Punjabi it means Master or Lord, a title used by Kashmiris, Rajputs, Sikhs, and Arain`s. In NWFP, Mian is usually a title accorded to members of the Syed families or religious figures.

A quick one while at a stop light while driving:

If I look carefully (highest sensitivity & greatest equanimity), I design my life through my reactions. I remember the child whom I brought 16 years back from Manmouth county hospital. The bliss and smile on the face over the years started to lose. because of my own expectation for perfection which is the symptom of disease of wrong understanding that I am not ``Poorna``. This took away natural state of happiness and bliss (right thought at right time) from me and slowly from my family. I thought I was (probably still I am to an extent) working hard but its like I lost the standing on the 13 th floor and it did not matter how much hard and frantically moved my limbs in the air during this chase to the hard ground. That is why they say it`s all about your attitude, attidude and attitude. They ment where from your thoughts and action come. If they come from incompleteness and inadequacy. One will be in a plane of very small ``i`` (dnt know why they make it capita?l), strong feeling of otherness, distingushing of oneself by convent vs madarassa education and even professional career. All thiese things can be naturally achieved without weird sense of I or otherness.

Solution: Go back to the root. Be simple. Smile at the world and do not react to the sensation (perception) of the present unnecessarily. Humor and easy learnig disposition may help in building relationships where you react with bliss. One can do it any time and it`s never late. If we have to divorce, we have to divorce the wrong understanding of ``I am incomplete , my spouse is incomplete my kids are incomplete`` Kepp it in mind we ourselves are the cause of our perceptions of our spouse and relationships.

I hope it helps. Author is well imbibed with capabilities to succeed and achieve her conjugal bliss.

Re : #115 Urstruly
It seems you still havent grasped Romair`s points. I think all he wants to do is for you to understand his point of view, and does not wish to impose it on you. You are free to believe whatever you want whether it be religious consensus or otherwise, as it is the burden of your soul. Our logic tells us one thing and yours another. But it doesnt mean that our divergent paths still dont lead to the same end. God is there for those to seek who desire Her.
May God be with you.

Begum Zahida KhhaliquzzamaN:

(when she was a minister of something-60`s)

reporter asked some questions

Begum.Zahida.K:(reply) Bahee meiN aaj kal bohut masroof rehtee hooN. Kyaa karrooN kabhee yahaaN meeting kabhee wahaaN meeting. hUr vaqt havaee jahaaZ meiN. Eik paaoN karachi peiN hai, tO eik Lahore meiN.

reporter: tO phir Bahavalpur valoaN kay tO aish aish aish hongay.

---

moral of the story:

Jinn kay paooN eik vaqt meiN dO jagaah hotay heiN vo BahavalpurioN ko aish karaatay jaiN.

baal,

Are you serious?

Shore # 120

I am convinced by Romair`s arguments, as I already wrote, and now I only wish to understand his method, by which he interprets Qura`n. I don`t think it should take much to interpret those 5 lines. What`s your take on it.

It seems to me that a strong argument, by some, is being made here to study only and only the original manuscript ( the parchment) of say Einstein or Newton.

Whatever has been quoted by them, or about them by other researchers , must be destroyed forthwith. I have always maintained that any scholarship which carries footnotes giving
references, ibids, etals and idems must be viewed with suspicion.

Same holds true for precedents, traditional practice, `common` law and `amendments`` violating the original by the `fathers of the confederation`.

``Ikko ALF menoo Darkaar``
bakee saraa zikr azkaar.

and now back to bhanGrra, ballet, and beer ..the litmus test for having ``arrived``.

``In Divorce is thy salvation--hasten it!``
``Spinster is not a bad word``
``There is more beauty in this world --than a baby``

captain clueless,

........ remember when you almost had me convinced me that musharraf was pakistan`s saviour ?........ in the typical fauji style you continue to speak with great authority on subjects that you obviously know little about and continue to make a fool out of yourself ..........

....... captain, the tendency of muslims like you and urstruly to discuss anything and everything based on what is written in the koran or hadith is at the root of the problems facing the ummah .......... as long as you continue to do it, you will end up at the same place - ankle deep in a pile of seventh century camel manure .........

............. divorce is a very personal issue that afflicts people all over the world and god or his son or last protege cannot do much about it ............i know you will say, ``but there are christians who go to their priests for counselling``....... i never said there arn`t any idiots of other faiths, even though the muslims seem to have a monoply on idiocy nowadays .............. the fact of the matter is that the very institution of marriage has changed with the invention of the pill and financial opportunities for women - the laws written on tablets, scrolls and parchments are not relevant any longer ............ women don`t have to put up with crap from men any more, and the sooner you mullah types get used to it the better off you will be ............ forget the koran and hadith - if you want to hang on to your woman go out and loose a few pounds, get a prescription for viagra, lock up your mother in the basement next time she comes over, don`t forget that feb 14 is coming up and, for god`s sake, do something about that hair in your ears ............ you will not find such good advice in the koran - i seriously doubt it contains any reference to saint valentine ............

About what?

I speak, dragon converts to text.

If about ``aithor finding conjugal bliss`` - Yes! It`s part of the growth. We create (choose) by our vasanas our parents, spouse and even children. Some get the ``right understanding`` by reaching the dead end in existential plain, others take the Uturn by cultivating habit of observing their own motivation. This might be called by different terms - yoga, vipassana, meditation, zen etc. I am sure there must be something in sufi or islamic verbage as well

romair - as for your contention that hadith should be put away because it was collated by people 150 years after the death of Prophet (saw), I am a bit perplexed for following reasons:

That really makes the Jews and Christians, our current masters, look very stupid. After all, they put their books together hundreds and thousands of years later (as opposed to 150 years later by muslims), by using the word of mouth that was transferred down the generations. Given that, it is surprising that Jews seem to be very robust in their faith and in kicking our butts by using the strength they derive from their religion (or is it because they have moved on from this ``re-inventing the wheel`` debate that we muslims have the habit of getting into, again and again and again?)

Confuscianism is obsolete as well. I never liked it anyways - too mushy.

If I am not mistaken, even Quran was not collated in its current form, under the supervision of Usman (raw) until 15 years after the death of Prophet (saw). So I am a bit surprised that you are putting your faith in Usman (raw).

In fact, with your arguments, hamidm seems to be making more sense in that everything of the faith that has been passed down over thousands of years, and cannot be proved like Einstein`s theory of relativity, needs to be discarded.

You have single handedly ushered in a new world for me. I will also discard the really old pictures of my ancestors, since it was my father, who was told by my grandfather that this was the picture of my great grandfather. Why should I believe that!