If Godhra did not happen…
Farzana Versey January 27, 2005
#63 Posted by nasah on February 1, 2005 3:13:53 pm
Re: # 62
``Imagine if it was Narendra Modi who wanted his Gujarati voters to eat mithai and paid them. What would the media have not done? That is the difference.``
what makes you think -- he did NOT -- after making flaming shish kebob of men women and children -- The COWARD DID want ``his Gujarati voters to eat mithai and paid them`` -- behind the camera -- how do you think that pathetic creature got re-elected ....to become the CM one more time
and what DID the media do.....anyway
....and YES....if we can remove our Saffron colored glasses -- we can see -- `` That`s the difference``.....
``Imagine if it was Narendra Modi who wanted his Gujarati voters to eat mithai and paid them. What would the media have not done? That is the difference.``
what makes you think -- he did NOT -- after making flaming shish kebob of men women and children -- The COWARD DID want ``his Gujarati voters to eat mithai and paid them`` -- behind the camera -- how do you think that pathetic creature got re-elected ....to become the CM one more time
and what DID the media do.....anyway
....and YES....if we can remove our Saffron colored glasses -- we can see -- `` That`s the difference``.....
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#62 Posted by ankit on February 1, 2005 7:57:35 am
from NEW INDIAN EXPRESS:
Lalu Prasad is a unique politician. During the Bihar movement days, I admired him greatly on principles. But principles mattered then. Today, I admire him for his native skills, although that is sans principles.
He is a great communicator, particularly to the ordinary people. He couldn`t care less for the English media of Delhi. This, actually, makes me admire him even more. The entire political spectrum is terrified of the dozen or so English papers in Delhi. But Lalu is not. That is one side. But there is another.
Lalu is always in the news, though mostly for the wrong reasons. Now he is in the news for distributing cash, yes hard cash, to his voters in Bihar. He knows as much as anyone else that Bihar is going to polls in two months. In fact, he has sought elections on a single day in Bihar. He knows just as every politician does that money helps to win elections. He has openly displayed the role of money now, so that his voters look up to him and his party for money everywhere. He did not do it secretly. He did it openly. In full view of the national television media, so that the nation could view it and the nation did view it repeatedly.
For the first time, a politician, that too a Central minister, holding a sheaf of currency notes and distributing to the people who would be voters in the elections. The scene was a relief from the otherwise boring politics.
But Lalu is no fool to have done it openly. He has at one stroke ensured that the money he gives to his partymen to be distributed to the voters is not pocketed by them. Now his voters themselves will ask his partymen where their money is. What a strategy? So what the government cannot do to ensure fair and unfailing distribution of its grants to the people, Lalu has done by televising his own distribution. And yet, someone, his deputy in the party, explains that it is for buying `mithai` (sweets). And he too is a minister. So Lalu may have a few lessons for those struggling to win elections.
A stunned BJP rushes to the Election Commission. Asks the EC to proceed against Lalu and also de-register his party, the Rashtriya Janata Dal, of which Lalu`s family has virtual proprietary control. The EC, in turn, asks its official in Bihar to register an FIR against Lalu for bribing the voters. Poor Congress. It has no choice. It has to support Lalu and it does unreservedly.
Now, the matter goes to Manmohan Singh, a decent soul. What can he do? He too has to support him, if his government is to survive. So the stage is set for a confrontation between the ruling alliance and the opposition alliance. The forthcoming Bihar poll only adds to the confrontation. But Lalu has one advantage, again unique. He is the `only hope` for secularism in Bihar. So, most of the English newspapers in Delhi have no option but to support Lalu, even though he treats them with disdain. Lalu talks to his voters in Bhojpuri and Maithili, local dialects, not even in Hindi. English papers do not sell where his voters are located. So Lalu does not need these papers. But they need Lalu as the protector of secularism not just in Bihar but elsewhere too. So, barring a couple of them in Delhi, no one has written any editorial or article critical of Lalu or commending the EC.
See Lalu`s defence, knowing that he will have no problem with the media. ``Thank God, I was only caught giving money, not receiving it. I was doing it openly, not secretly.`` But Laluji, unless you `receive` cash secretly wherefrom did you pay openly? That is the issue. That is the question that the media will not ask Lalu. Why? It is Lalu. Imagine if it was Narendra Modi who wanted his Gujarati voters to eat mithai and paid them? What would the media have not done? That is the difference.
Lalu Prasad is a unique politician. During the Bihar movement days, I admired him greatly on principles. But principles mattered then. Today, I admire him for his native skills, although that is sans principles.
He is a great communicator, particularly to the ordinary people. He couldn`t care less for the English media of Delhi. This, actually, makes me admire him even more. The entire political spectrum is terrified of the dozen or so English papers in Delhi. But Lalu is not. That is one side. But there is another.
Lalu is always in the news, though mostly for the wrong reasons. Now he is in the news for distributing cash, yes hard cash, to his voters in Bihar. He knows as much as anyone else that Bihar is going to polls in two months. In fact, he has sought elections on a single day in Bihar. He knows just as every politician does that money helps to win elections. He has openly displayed the role of money now, so that his voters look up to him and his party for money everywhere. He did not do it secretly. He did it openly. In full view of the national television media, so that the nation could view it and the nation did view it repeatedly.
For the first time, a politician, that too a Central minister, holding a sheaf of currency notes and distributing to the people who would be voters in the elections. The scene was a relief from the otherwise boring politics.
But Lalu is no fool to have done it openly. He has at one stroke ensured that the money he gives to his partymen to be distributed to the voters is not pocketed by them. Now his voters themselves will ask his partymen where their money is. What a strategy? So what the government cannot do to ensure fair and unfailing distribution of its grants to the people, Lalu has done by televising his own distribution. And yet, someone, his deputy in the party, explains that it is for buying `mithai` (sweets). And he too is a minister. So Lalu may have a few lessons for those struggling to win elections.
A stunned BJP rushes to the Election Commission. Asks the EC to proceed against Lalu and also de-register his party, the Rashtriya Janata Dal, of which Lalu`s family has virtual proprietary control. The EC, in turn, asks its official in Bihar to register an FIR against Lalu for bribing the voters. Poor Congress. It has no choice. It has to support Lalu and it does unreservedly.
Now, the matter goes to Manmohan Singh, a decent soul. What can he do? He too has to support him, if his government is to survive. So the stage is set for a confrontation between the ruling alliance and the opposition alliance. The forthcoming Bihar poll only adds to the confrontation. But Lalu has one advantage, again unique. He is the `only hope` for secularism in Bihar. So, most of the English newspapers in Delhi have no option but to support Lalu, even though he treats them with disdain. Lalu talks to his voters in Bhojpuri and Maithili, local dialects, not even in Hindi. English papers do not sell where his voters are located. So Lalu does not need these papers. But they need Lalu as the protector of secularism not just in Bihar but elsewhere too. So, barring a couple of them in Delhi, no one has written any editorial or article critical of Lalu or commending the EC.
See Lalu`s defence, knowing that he will have no problem with the media. ``Thank God, I was only caught giving money, not receiving it. I was doing it openly, not secretly.`` But Laluji, unless you `receive` cash secretly wherefrom did you pay openly? That is the issue. That is the question that the media will not ask Lalu. Why? It is Lalu. Imagine if it was Narendra Modi who wanted his Gujarati voters to eat mithai and paid them? What would the media have not done? That is the difference.
#61 Posted by ballukhan on February 1, 2005 5:55:42 am
Swapan Dasgupta creates great fictional accounts regarding indian muslim`s understanding of his situation. Why does he focus on the muslim history and neglect the might-is-right theory that was accepted by every other king in the past. And can we forget that in the hoary traditions the Vaishnavs killed the Saivas, the Shaktas fought with the Vaisnavas, the Advaitins fought with the Dvaitins and when there was none to fight the Kshatriya considered it his religious duty to seek some enemies by going on an Ashwamegha?.
And what about the ``hurt`` of the tribal and other sub-nationalities that we so often hear in the vernacular media??
And who can forget the bloody and brutal wars , lootings and plunders that each hindu king indulged against one another??? And do we forget that any hindu ruler could cut the hands and feet of any hindu subject he considered fit in order to meet out any justice?
So, let us admit that the mediaval ages were frought with the most abominable of all the political and social struggles in the Indian society and that included the struggle with the moghuls...........and any one now suggesting that the Gujrat riot had anything to do with the political struggles a few centuries back is just creating a fictional acount which never exists.........
I would suggest that rathar than getting seduced by Swapan Dasgupta`s fiction let us all re-locate ourselves in the Democratic Republic of India in the year 2005 and learn to play the rules of political game as per the Indian Constitution rathar than try to whip up a mass hysteria about muslims atrocities of the dark ages................
And what about the ``hurt`` of the tribal and other sub-nationalities that we so often hear in the vernacular media??
And who can forget the bloody and brutal wars , lootings and plunders that each hindu king indulged against one another??? And do we forget that any hindu ruler could cut the hands and feet of any hindu subject he considered fit in order to meet out any justice?
So, let us admit that the mediaval ages were frought with the most abominable of all the political and social struggles in the Indian society and that included the struggle with the moghuls...........and any one now suggesting that the Gujrat riot had anything to do with the political struggles a few centuries back is just creating a fictional acount which never exists.........
I would suggest that rathar than getting seduced by Swapan Dasgupta`s fiction let us all re-locate ourselves in the Democratic Republic of India in the year 2005 and learn to play the rules of political game as per the Indian Constitution rathar than try to whip up a mass hysteria about muslims atrocities of the dark ages................
#60 Posted by ballukhan on February 1, 2005 5:55:35 am
Swapan Dasgupta creates great fictional accounts regarding indian muslim`s understanding of his situation. Why does he focus on the muslim history and neglect the might-is-right theory that was accepted by every other king in the past. And can we forget that in the hoary traditions the Vaishnavs killed the Saivas, the Shaktas fought with the Vaisnavas, the Advaitins fought with the Dvaitins and when there was none to fight the Kshatriya considered it his religious duty to seek some enemies by going on an Ashwamegha?.
And what about the ``hurt`` of the tribal and other sub-nationalities that we so often hear in the vernacular media??
And who can forget the bloody and brutal wars , lootings and plunders that each hindu king indulged against one another??? And do we forget that any hindu ruler could cut the hands and feet of any hindu subject he considered fit in order to meet out any justice?
So, let us admit that the mediaval ages were frought with the most abominable of all the political and social struggles in the Indian society and that included the struggle with the moghuls...........and any one now suggesting that the Gujrat riot had anything to do with the political struggles a few centuries back is just creating a fictional acount which never exists.........
I would suggest that rathar than getting seduced by Swapan Dasgupta`s fiction let us all re-locate ourselves in the Democratic Republic of India in the year 2005 and learn to play the rules of political game as per the Indian Constitution rathar than try to whip up a mass hysteria about muslims atrocities of the dark ages................
And what about the ``hurt`` of the tribal and other sub-nationalities that we so often hear in the vernacular media??
And who can forget the bloody and brutal wars , lootings and plunders that each hindu king indulged against one another??? And do we forget that any hindu ruler could cut the hands and feet of any hindu subject he considered fit in order to meet out any justice?
So, let us admit that the mediaval ages were frought with the most abominable of all the political and social struggles in the Indian society and that included the struggle with the moghuls...........and any one now suggesting that the Gujrat riot had anything to do with the political struggles a few centuries back is just creating a fictional acount which never exists.........
I would suggest that rathar than getting seduced by Swapan Dasgupta`s fiction let us all re-locate ourselves in the Democratic Republic of India in the year 2005 and learn to play the rules of political game as per the Indian Constitution rathar than try to whip up a mass hysteria about muslims atrocities of the dark ages................
#59 Posted by avenger on January 31, 2005 10:41:19 pm
FV-ji , this is for you.
You don`t necessarily have to be a hardened secularist or a supporter of Railway Minister Lalu Prasad Yadav to be dismayed by the Election Commission`s warning against the use of U C Banerjee`s interim report on the 2002 Godhra carnage in the forthcoming State elections. The retired judge who was handpicked by the UPA Government to rewrite contemporary history may or may not have done a good job proving that the fire which killed the Hindu activists on the Sabarmati Express was an accident. That is not the point. What is galling is that the EC presumes that it has some mysterious Constitutional sanction to determine what should or should not constitute the electoral agenda.
The EC`s intervention-which, it later clarified, was only a warning against ``communalising`` the issue - has helped stymie the discussion on the return of minorityism to the secularist agenda. Ironically, this censorship has worked to Lalu`s advantage.
In the 2004 general election, both the RJD in Bihar and the CPI(M) in West Bengal quietly exploited the Gujarat riots to ensure a massive Muslim consolidation against the NDA. The whole exercise was conducted at a subterranean level, so as to not force any countervailing Hindu mobilisation.
This time too, Lalu huffed and puffed over the Banerjee report for only a few days - time enough to disseminate the message that he had ``fixed`` the BJP and Gujarat Chief Minister Narendra Modi. Then, before the other side could respond effectively, the EC intervened and put a guillotine on the proceedings. Once again Lalu could get his message to his target audience without a challenge.
There are, of course, many who believe that the Gujarat riot has run its course and that even Bihar`s Muslim voters will not be moved by a colourful post-mortem report of an event that took place in another state three years ago.
The important question is not whether Lalu succeeds in beguiling the Muslims into voting for him yet again. What is astonishing is the persistence of the belief that the emotional security of India`s Muslims depend on reinterpreting the past along expedient lines.
The Godhra report is just the most recent exercise in what is called negationism. It has become secularist fashion, for example, to argue that the Hindu community did not flee the Kashmir Valley because they were intimidated and terrorised by pro-Pakistani separatists but because Jagmohan wanted to score a point. Likewise, historians like Mushirul Hasan and others have made it seemingly credible to argue that Muslim support for the Muslim League`s Pakistan scheme was a myth.
By this logic, partition happened created on the strength of imperial designs alone. In a similar vein, an entire genre of history writing was created to demonstrate that the destruction of Hindu temples in medieval times either never took place or was prompted by non-religious considerations. Romila Thapar was, presumably, rewarded with a Padma Bhushan for her brazen suggestion that the Hindu hurt over the repeated destruction of the Somnath temple was built on elaborate myths.
The white-washing of Muslim communalism has touched new heights with the Godhra report. Its consequences are frightening. If the impression gains ground in the Muslim community that acts of communal provocation and encouragement of separatism will invariably be condoned and justified by secularist sophistry, it will set new standards in vote bank politics and communal intransigence.
There is no earthly reason why Muslims in Bihar should be targeted for what their co-religionists did in Godhra. Nor does the sinister design of a few fanatics near the Godhra railway station justify the murder of Muslims in Gujarat during the riots.
However, to fictionalise the past and maintain that Muslims were never in the wrong and that all communal evil can be traced to majority communalism is to provoke a reaction. In shunning a public debate on the absurd Godhra report, the EC hasn`t made India a more tolerant country. It has driven Hindu rage underground and given Muslim communalism a carte blanche
- Swapandas Gupta
You don`t necessarily have to be a hardened secularist or a supporter of Railway Minister Lalu Prasad Yadav to be dismayed by the Election Commission`s warning against the use of U C Banerjee`s interim report on the 2002 Godhra carnage in the forthcoming State elections. The retired judge who was handpicked by the UPA Government to rewrite contemporary history may or may not have done a good job proving that the fire which killed the Hindu activists on the Sabarmati Express was an accident. That is not the point. What is galling is that the EC presumes that it has some mysterious Constitutional sanction to determine what should or should not constitute the electoral agenda.
The EC`s intervention-which, it later clarified, was only a warning against ``communalising`` the issue - has helped stymie the discussion on the return of minorityism to the secularist agenda. Ironically, this censorship has worked to Lalu`s advantage.
In the 2004 general election, both the RJD in Bihar and the CPI(M) in West Bengal quietly exploited the Gujarat riots to ensure a massive Muslim consolidation against the NDA. The whole exercise was conducted at a subterranean level, so as to not force any countervailing Hindu mobilisation.
This time too, Lalu huffed and puffed over the Banerjee report for only a few days - time enough to disseminate the message that he had ``fixed`` the BJP and Gujarat Chief Minister Narendra Modi. Then, before the other side could respond effectively, the EC intervened and put a guillotine on the proceedings. Once again Lalu could get his message to his target audience without a challenge.
There are, of course, many who believe that the Gujarat riot has run its course and that even Bihar`s Muslim voters will not be moved by a colourful post-mortem report of an event that took place in another state three years ago.
The important question is not whether Lalu succeeds in beguiling the Muslims into voting for him yet again. What is astonishing is the persistence of the belief that the emotional security of India`s Muslims depend on reinterpreting the past along expedient lines.
The Godhra report is just the most recent exercise in what is called negationism. It has become secularist fashion, for example, to argue that the Hindu community did not flee the Kashmir Valley because they were intimidated and terrorised by pro-Pakistani separatists but because Jagmohan wanted to score a point. Likewise, historians like Mushirul Hasan and others have made it seemingly credible to argue that Muslim support for the Muslim League`s Pakistan scheme was a myth.
By this logic, partition happened created on the strength of imperial designs alone. In a similar vein, an entire genre of history writing was created to demonstrate that the destruction of Hindu temples in medieval times either never took place or was prompted by non-religious considerations. Romila Thapar was, presumably, rewarded with a Padma Bhushan for her brazen suggestion that the Hindu hurt over the repeated destruction of the Somnath temple was built on elaborate myths.
The white-washing of Muslim communalism has touched new heights with the Godhra report. Its consequences are frightening. If the impression gains ground in the Muslim community that acts of communal provocation and encouragement of separatism will invariably be condoned and justified by secularist sophistry, it will set new standards in vote bank politics and communal intransigence.
There is no earthly reason why Muslims in Bihar should be targeted for what their co-religionists did in Godhra. Nor does the sinister design of a few fanatics near the Godhra railway station justify the murder of Muslims in Gujarat during the riots.
However, to fictionalise the past and maintain that Muslims were never in the wrong and that all communal evil can be traced to majority communalism is to provoke a reaction. In shunning a public debate on the absurd Godhra report, the EC hasn`t made India a more tolerant country. It has driven Hindu rage underground and given Muslim communalism a carte blanche
- Swapandas Gupta
#58 Posted by ballukhan on January 31, 2005 7:14:53 pm
Re: # 55
``The Pakis` crocodile tears and handwringing are blatantly comical. These are the same Pakis who closed their borders for the faithful of the subcontinent soon after partition. As pointed out by a Pakistani interactor not long ago, these are the same Pakis who refuse to accept their own citizens` return from BD. ``
Agreed. Most of them have the illusive grandeaur about being the light of the Ummah.......a stupid arrogance about being the ``purest`` of the south asain muslims......... whereas the fact has being described by ShoreSaheb elsewhere................
``The Pakis` crocodile tears and handwringing are blatantly comical. These are the same Pakis who closed their borders for the faithful of the subcontinent soon after partition. As pointed out by a Pakistani interactor not long ago, these are the same Pakis who refuse to accept their own citizens` return from BD. ``
Agreed. Most of them have the illusive grandeaur about being the light of the Ummah.......a stupid arrogance about being the ``purest`` of the south asain muslims......... whereas the fact has being described by ShoreSaheb elsewhere................
#57 Posted by WildTwo on January 31, 2005 12:13:12 pm
Re: # 45
mumbaichick,
I could not have said it any better. Short and bitter.
mumbaichick,
I could not have said it any better. Short and bitter.
#56 Posted by WildTwo on January 31, 2005 12:11:20 pm
Pakistan is the reason why there is any semblance of less than first class citizenship for IMs. If there were no Pakistan, the IMs would be in an even more leading role in their country`s daily affairs, as they had been for a thousand years before. By having over half the IMs seprate themselves from India in 1947 and then commit ``national bifurcacide`` in 1971, the position of Indian Muslims has been greatly diminished. Furthermore, having a sworn pipsqueak of an enemy next door, supporting and financing a full-scale war of terrorism against India, and using the name of Islam to do its dirty deeds, does not do any favours for IMs. Of course, much of the Indian population, hears nothing but news of death and threats of destruction from its Muslim neighbour to the west. What kind of effect will this Muslim propaganda have on the welfare of adherents of the same religion, but in a country designated as an enemy of Islam by the model of Muslim nationhood - Pakistan?
#55 Posted by WildTwo on January 31, 2005 11:44:21 am
If Indian Muslims such as Farzana Versey have to say anything about Gujarat, it is perfectly understandable and their right, in fact their duty to speak up. Of course, as the aggrieved party they have every expectation to have their complaints heard and wrongs corrected. But for Pakis to make a propaganda picnic is adding insult to the IM`s injuries. The Pakis` crocodile tears and handwringing are blatantly comical. These are the same Pakis who closed their borders for the faithful of the subcontinent soon after partition. As pointed out by a Pakistani interactor not long ago, these are the same Pakis who refuse to accept their own citizens` return from BD. These are the same Pakis who deny equal citizenship to Ahmedis and endanger the lives of Shias and other minorities in Pakistan. These are the same Pakis that bomb their own citizens in Wana and Baluchistan. These are the same Pakis that have exiled the leadership of all three secular parties - MQM, PPP, and Nawaz ML. And they are not ashamed to point out the lack of secularism, lack of protection for minority rights, and lack of democratic institutions in India? If the topic wasn`t that serious, the Pakis should get an award for the most comical act in a supporting role.
#54 Posted by WildTwo on January 31, 2005 11:33:41 am
Re: # 53
And yes - RSS is the ``funny fringe``. These freaks were beaten to pulp by an italian woman with a funny accent - that too at the height of their power. They are nothing but a joke.//
Mohar, very well stated. India is a true democracy and that is why there is so much out in the open about this being wrong and that being wrong. In ``perfect`` societies such as Sadman Houston`s Iraq or the Saudi kingdom, or even army-run Pakistan, there is hardly anything that is wrong or reported to be wrong. That is why even BJP can win and run provinces and the whole country, if they can get enough votes. Not very different from the Repulican victories in the entire South or even at the national level. The key fact is that democratic governments have won and lost elections in India. When have the Pakis changed democratic governments following a fair election?
And yes - RSS is the ``funny fringe``. These freaks were beaten to pulp by an italian woman with a funny accent - that too at the height of their power. They are nothing but a joke.//
Mohar, very well stated. India is a true democracy and that is why there is so much out in the open about this being wrong and that being wrong. In ``perfect`` societies such as Sadman Houston`s Iraq or the Saudi kingdom, or even army-run Pakistan, there is hardly anything that is wrong or reported to be wrong. That is why even BJP can win and run provinces and the whole country, if they can get enough votes. Not very different from the Repulican victories in the entire South or even at the national level. The key fact is that democratic governments have won and lost elections in India. When have the Pakis changed democratic governments following a fair election?
#53 Posted by mohar11 on January 31, 2005 10:13:31 am
HP Re: # 51
Well - have you seen Southern Baptist Church manifesto? Former US president Bill Clinton was a member. That doesn`t mean next democratic gov`t is going to ``do away`` with secularism in US. Secularsim is the way of life in india - socially and constitutionally.
What you don`t have is an competent administrative framework to enforce the standards and beat back the fringe - from both sides of the communal coin. That`s all that is needed. An independent law-enforcement framework and non-criminal politicians.
And yes - RSS is the ``funny fringe``. These freaks were beaten to pulp by an italian woman with a funny accent - that too at the height of their power. They are nothing but a joke.
Well - have you seen Southern Baptist Church manifesto? Former US president Bill Clinton was a member. That doesn`t mean next democratic gov`t is going to ``do away`` with secularism in US. Secularsim is the way of life in india - socially and constitutionally.
What you don`t have is an competent administrative framework to enforce the standards and beat back the fringe - from both sides of the communal coin. That`s all that is needed. An independent law-enforcement framework and non-criminal politicians.
And yes - RSS is the ``funny fringe``. These freaks were beaten to pulp by an italian woman with a funny accent - that too at the height of their power. They are nothing but a joke.
#52 Posted by mohar11 on January 31, 2005 9:21:11 am
ballu Re: # 47
//...I do not want to get into the findings of Justice Banerjee...//
Neither do I. Justice this and Justice that - who gives fl!p? These freaks preside over a system that takes 20 years deliver ``justice`` ..... yet they haven;t done jack to reform it. They don`t give jack about state of their own profession and domain. SO who cares what ``facts`` they find out?? ``Committees``, ``Commissions``, ``reports`` - these things mean jack in India. These are yet another array of tools used by politicians to further their own interests.
++++
//................they prefer to pay ransom to the kidnappers than to live in fear of being killed and raped by the rioters............ //
So where is the outrage? When we all know that Laloo is the thug who IMs pay in votes to get ``protection`` - then Why is Laloo being held as champion of ``secularism``? When are we going to learn that you can`t fight right-wing extermists with mafias from the left? It`s already 60 years and counting. When are we going to learn?
//...I do not want to get into the findings of Justice Banerjee...//
Neither do I. Justice this and Justice that - who gives fl!p? These freaks preside over a system that takes 20 years deliver ``justice`` ..... yet they haven;t done jack to reform it. They don`t give jack about state of their own profession and domain. SO who cares what ``facts`` they find out?? ``Committees``, ``Commissions``, ``reports`` - these things mean jack in India. These are yet another array of tools used by politicians to further their own interests.
++++
//................they prefer to pay ransom to the kidnappers than to live in fear of being killed and raped by the rioters............ //
So where is the outrage? When we all know that Laloo is the thug who IMs pay in votes to get ``protection`` - then Why is Laloo being held as champion of ``secularism``? When are we going to learn that you can`t fight right-wing extermists with mafias from the left? It`s already 60 years and counting. When are we going to learn?
#51 Posted by HP on January 31, 2005 8:53:55 am
#49
“Yeah - and you go overboard all the time ....... ``Next government will do away with both secularism and socialism``
Overboard! Me? Try www.rss.org and see for yourself. And RSS is not just a “funny fringe”.
Former Indian PM never denied his links with RSS and the current leader of the BJP is even more committed to doing away with secularism.
RSS/BJP were the ruling alliance in India and in all likelihood they will be back in power in the next elections. It may happen sooner, if the current alliance makes even a small mistake in dealing with any coalition party.
Gujju
Feigning ignorance?
Read post # 45 see what that chick is talking about.
“Yeah - and you go overboard all the time ....... ``Next government will do away with both secularism and socialism``
Overboard! Me? Try www.rss.org and see for yourself. And RSS is not just a “funny fringe”.
Former Indian PM never denied his links with RSS and the current leader of the BJP is even more committed to doing away with secularism.
RSS/BJP were the ruling alliance in India and in all likelihood they will be back in power in the next elections. It may happen sooner, if the current alliance makes even a small mistake in dealing with any coalition party.
Gujju
Feigning ignorance?
Read post # 45 see what that chick is talking about.
#50 Posted by avenger on January 31, 2005 8:34:58 am
Haha...HP..the bit about LTTE is really funny. I never realised they were hindu till I read your post. You see - the concept of a global `hindu ummah` simply does not exist. So if you expect us to identify with the hindus of Sri Lanka or Nepal or Timbaktu , for good or for bad , - you are asking for too much.
Anyway , as far as the Tamil Tigers of Sri Lanka are concerned , they do not really take solace from their religion while carrying out their deeds , unlike muslim suicide bombers. The fact that they are hindu is a co-incidence , and irrelevant . So to equate them with Osama`s boys is a non-starter really...
Anyway , as far as the Tamil Tigers of Sri Lanka are concerned , they do not really take solace from their religion while carrying out their deeds , unlike muslim suicide bombers. The fact that they are hindu is a co-incidence , and irrelevant . So to equate them with Osama`s boys is a non-starter really...
#49 Posted by mohar11 on January 31, 2005 8:26:50 am
Re: # 48
//...You do embrace truth sometimes. ...//
Yeah - and you go overboard all the time ....... ``Next government will do away with both secularism and socialism`` - what kind of sh!t is this?
The ``struggle`` in India is to have administrations that abide by the law and politicians who are not criminals. Actually it`s not even a struggle. It`s a wish. A wish by a small group of people who understand what is to be done.
But it ain`t happening soon. You can see it right here - you will see a bunch of m0r0ns who ask ``where is the evidence that Modi was involved``. And then there is another bunch of freaks who are holding up Laloo as the savior - ``so what if laloos bihar is worse than somalia - he is the secualr savior of muslims``.
I mean - gosh, how low can Indian democracy go?? Almost 60 years of ``self-rule`` and we have Laloos and Modis being declared as champions of various communties? This is disgusting.
//...You do embrace truth sometimes. ...//
Yeah - and you go overboard all the time ....... ``Next government will do away with both secularism and socialism`` - what kind of sh!t is this?
The ``struggle`` in India is to have administrations that abide by the law and politicians who are not criminals. Actually it`s not even a struggle. It`s a wish. A wish by a small group of people who understand what is to be done.
But it ain`t happening soon. You can see it right here - you will see a bunch of m0r0ns who ask ``where is the evidence that Modi was involved``. And then there is another bunch of freaks who are holding up Laloo as the savior - ``so what if laloos bihar is worse than somalia - he is the secualr savior of muslims``.
I mean - gosh, how low can Indian democracy go?? Almost 60 years of ``self-rule`` and we have Laloos and Modis being declared as champions of various communties? This is disgusting.
#48 Posted by HP on January 31, 2005 7:54:38 am
#46 by mohar11
“Laloo is a savior of muslims is as good as Modi is a champion of hindus. These guys are criminals par excellence who are playing extreme politics for their own interest”
“It`s a shame that secularism has come down rest on shoulders of thugs and criminals like him.”
You do embrace truth sometimes.
The current reality in India is that it is a secular country in constitution only. Like it is also a socialist country in the constitution. The struggle in India is not between the secularism and Hindutva but between the moderate Hindus supported by minorities and the fanatics in RSS/BJP. Both don’t subscribe to secularism. All indications are that this is the last moderate Hindu government in India and the next government will do away with both secularism and socialism in the constitution.
As far as Hindu suicide bombers are concerned, there is an entity called Tamil Tigers and they started the whole suicide bombing idea. They were actually Muslims but changed their religion to malign Hindus. Then there was a woman who took Rajiv Gandhi along on her last Journey. She was a Muslims too and changed her religion at the last minute to malign Hindus.
Yet another conspiracy to malign Hindus, Na! Hindu homicide squads do not make sense at all.
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