Why Am I An Agnostic Muslim?

well done mr butt for being so candid and honest in your experiences. it`s a shame that muslims cannot be tolerant in this day and age and debate intellectually rather than using threatening language. no wonder our muslims poets and intellectuals hark back to the andalusian golden age when muslims, christians and jews lived alongside one another, and there was tolerance aswell and progressive thinking, but not this dangerous and penchant fanaticism that sub-contintental muslims are so good at - probably to make up for any short-comings they may feel they have because they don`t actually understand the text they are reading!

I think you are a brave and courageous soul to question the doctrine that is all around you. There is no reason but fear to follow any particular religion. All seem to use fear of some external damnation or something to control you. The adherance to these religions is causing great suffering in the world right now and we need to work together to find peace, justice and happiness in the here and now to prevent more suffering. All religions seem to think they are right in their ways, but conditions change and these old religions don`t. Break away and work for peace and justice.

Look at Bush in the US. He claims to be a monotheist Christian yet wages unholy wars of aggression. In the States however, there are millions of people who are agnostics, or at least not affiliated with any religion, who work with every ounce of their spirits to stop the war and promote peace and reconciliation with the mideast. Which would you rather have?

It`s more important to work for peace today than to blindly follow any doctrine. The world is spiraling out of control due to fanaticism. Pretty much all the world`s religions have too much unholy `baggage` to be trusted to work for peace. Those in power in the religions seek to keep their power thru coercian and even inciting war. We`re better off just working with each other.

I don`t mean to say that there aren`t good people who believe in one or more gods or follow one or more spiritual traditions. Nor am I suggesting that religions haven`t helped some people to act in holy ways. But now they are getting in the way of peace in the world.

What did Lennon say? (Um, John Lennon):
Imagine there`s no Heaven
It`s easy if you try
No hell below us
Above us only sky
Imagine all the people
Living for today

Imagine there`s no countries
It isn`t hard to do
Nothing to kill or die for
And no religion too
Imagine all the people
Living life in peace

You may say that I`m a dreamer
But I`m not the only one
I hope someday you`ll join us
And the world will be as one

Imagine no possessions
I wonder if you can
No need for greed or hunger
A brotherhood of man
Imagine all the people
Sharing all the world

You may say that I`m a dreamer
But I`m not the only one
I hope someday you`ll join us
And the world will live as one

15 by humara
20 by nasha

Very interesting debate. Quranic Allaha, when he wants to create something, he says to that very thing (apparently the thing already existed to obey the order) to be and it becomes. Nasha and Mubashir did not exist so Allah could not say to them `fayakoon` and so they had to take a long natural process, spreading over nine months, to come into existence.

Wah, humara, wah!

I moved from agnosticism to Islam...Why? Because there is a God and His name is Allah...

Why do millions die of starvation and He does nothing? Why are millions born deformed? Why do thousands die and he does nothing? Why? Why? Why?

First to understand this problem, we have to take step one; realize that this life is not the real life but a precursor to what is to come.

Second, we must look at ourselves to see God Himself. My movements, my senses, my emotions everything I perceive and feel, how did I come about? Out of a big bang to form me? A creature so perfect in thought and emotions? To feel angry, curious, joy, sadness...All from a big bang? Heck no...

Third, since this life is a precursor to the next life, what do we know about the next life compared to this? When we die, angels will ask us, how long did you spend on earth? Man will think and reply, 2 days...Why destroy and eternity for 2 days? Believe and make a better afterlife for yourself...

Jab se khula hai bhed yeh mushkil kushai ka
BandoN se tootney laga rishta Khudai ka

Bey parda saare sang-e-adeedat haiN rah ke
Yeh hai Khuda burai ka woh hai bhalai ka

zanjeer-e-kaainaat meiN jakDe huey the hum
paoN meiN aaj tak hai nishaaN ashnai ka

kuchh talKhi-e-hayaat se, naakaamioN se kuchh
rag rag meiN bas gaya tha junooN paarsaai ka

Jab se ba zere sang-e-aqeedat hai zindagi
Azar banaey nit naya chehra Khudaai ka

In Bhagwadgita, Lord Krishna tells Arjuna that I am light and I am the darkness. I am life and I am death. I am the creator of the innumerable Universes and I am their destroyer. Everything starts and ends with me but I have no begining and no end. I am everywhere-I am in you, I am in the stone, I am in your enemies, I am in each and evry grain of sand in the Universe but I am from nothing.

When we generally talk or think about God, we tend to think about his good qualities-His tenderness, His love to us, His warmth and His kindliness. In our human emotions, we forget that He has not only to create and preserve, but He has to DESTROY also. If He gives life ,He has to give DEATH also.

The joys, sorrows, happiness, life, death, miseries , pains, sufferings, enjoyments etc. etc. all form His glory. We cant be choosy-we have to bear all of them. I suggest to the author that he should once go through the Trinity of Hinduism-leaving aside the Images which it has embedded in it. If he can reach the philosphical aspect of the Trinity, much of the questions posed by him would be answered.

I am not sure what other faiths and religions say about them- but the Hindu concept of Creation, Preservation and Destruction as the first three manifestations of God are amply clear and appear to be correct.

dear sir,
agnostics are what frederic engales would call `tender materialists` who having discovered the truth contrary to their beliefs refuse to accept it. they refuse because they don`t have the courage to face the truth and shudder at the thought of being ex-communicated and ensuing persecution.
columnist is, it seems, going through great internal tention and contradiction. On conscious level he finds no God and in deeper recesses of his sub-conscious God haunts him. Pity on him.
muzaffar buledi

dear sir,
agnostics are what frederic engales would call `tender materialists` who having discovered the truth contrary to their beliefs refuse to accept it. they refuse because they don`t have the courage to face the truth and shudder at the thought of being ex-communicated and ensuing persecution.
columnist is, it seems, going through great internal tention and contradiction. On conscious level he finds no God and in deeper recesses of his sub-conscious God haunts him. Pity on him.
muzaffar buledi

The Riddle of Epicurus

Is god willing to prevent evil, but not able? Then he is not omnipotent.
Is he able, but not willing? Then he is malevolent.
Is he both able and willing? Then whence cometh evil?
Is he neither able nor willing? Then why call him God?

Bertrand Russell joked about what he called ``tea pot agnostics`` who would believe that there was a tea pot that orbited the sun because there was no way of disproving it`s existence. The definition of gods in the world`s religions are all throwbacks to barbarian times, and, if anyone decides to pay even slight attention to these definitions and look at creators who created the universe in six days and rested on the seventh, who created man in his own image and woman out of man`s rib etc in a critical light, they would clearly be visible as little more than fiction.

Sorry Mr./Ms?Mrs Tesh or who ever you are. I will only say that Quran allows thinking but does not allow thinking like ANIMALS.

Re: # 342

What a simpleton! Excuse me, Mr Saif, you are a typical Muslim who does not know even the difference between the `fact` and the `faith`. He ascribes the plight of the muslims today to the non-observance of Islam despite admitting the fact that they are being beaten by those whom he considers anti-Islam. Quran says,``Those who do not think are worse than animals``. It is only `Aql` which makes the difference between the animals and the humans.

Dear Mr. Columnist!
I read your column and it is seemed that you need some what psychotheraphy as you have some psycho problems in your mind. You never studied any religion or sect in deep.
Every sect in the Moslems (except Shiasm) will lead you to the right way and you will find the obejective (Paradise, promised for Moslems by Almighty Allah).
The first thing seemed in your mind is that you look the differeces in the sect not the similirities. All the ways adopted by the diffrent sect of Moslems were carried out by the Prophet Mohammad (PBUH) during his times and Allah is keeping those ways alive till the end of times.
Your mind is found very voilent and unstable, that why you dont believe in all of those or one of those.
This is the faith which make a human familaire to the others and this faith is in the human nature. You can find this faith in the human since the primitive times when the man worshiped the Sun, Moon, Fire, Stars and other like that. This is because that Allah has made this thing built in the human nature.
So there is no confusion in the existing of Allah and those who deny is not the Moslem.
Some stupid questions you made in the last are really amazing for me.
He (Allah) is the most powerful for those who believe in Him and call him for help not for those who dont believe. The example should be taken from the Battle of Badar when the 313 Moslems defeated more than 1000. He is the powerful when he gave the escape to Mosus from the Farro. He has designed some principles for human to keep the universe moving and when the Man forget all these then the Power of Allah are used against them.
He has the knowledge of everything indeed but that power of knowledge and research was given to the Man also and He kept the mind in his body. Now its upto man how he use this power. You can study Tibi Nabavi and all those knowledges were given to prophet Mohammad well indeed. All the modern disease were created by the human by itself due to creating dirty environments which is prohibited in Islam. If u study it in deep then you will dafinatly find the answer. Hence the cure of every disease is existed and for the belivers he can help and protect from those.
He indeed exist everywhere but he has some priciples which he has given to the Moslems in the Holy Book. The Man who commit the sin of rape he will be stonned till death. If you once give this sentence to one who commets this sin then the others will never do this again. The Jews and Christians are not the chosen one but the lesson of Jihand has been forgotton by the Moslems so the Christians and Jews are powerful now as they are making stronger and stronger their forces and Moslems fell in luxuries and have no concern with this. Whenever the Islamic law will be implemented then you will see the peace and your wil believe in many things whcih you dont today.
When the Islamic Economic system will be introduced in the country then no one will sell his child for money. you can find the examples from the Age of Omar bin Abdul Aziz (Omar second). But when we ignore then we are suffered.
In the last I will give you one advice that please make your mind clear and make your faith strong.

Saifullah Khan

Re: # 337

My post at 336 was just a teaser. In the Quran Allah says,``O Prophet, tell them (His addressees) to come leave every thing else and THINK (discuss)individually and collectively. This is what the chowk is providing a platform for. But the jahilia muslims ceased to think and instead terrorised those who dare to think with the dreaded LOB.

In replt to #339:

Wow I never thought someone would actually come out and say that. Incredible.

``But if you want your faith to be basis for public policy I do not see why faith cannot be debated or insulted or spit upon.``

Faith be a basis for public policy. I didn`t even mentions that in my posts, you just assumed so. You completely changed the topic.

All I am saying is everyone is equal, is it so wrong to say that, every civil system agrees to equality it is mentioned in every faith and is a part of all Democratic systems or any secular system in countries.

I live in Canada, Toronto a very multicultural society. Everyone can practise their relegion, faith etc.. without any problems from law. The reason for that is because everyone is considered equal. No certain faith or nationality is bashed upon because people respect one another. In that goverment faith has nothing to do with public policy neither does the public policy have anything to do with faith. This thing is not even an issue.

Your reasoning for

``But if you want your faith to be basis for public policy I do not see why faith cannot be debated or insulted or spit upon. If you cannot stand the heat get out of the kitchen.``

is completey illogical, it doesn`t make any sense. if your talking about countries like Saudi Arabia or Pakistan or even Iran and Kuwait. I`ve lived in many of those countries and let me tell you there is no problem for Christians or Hindus or Jews to practise their faith. They also have churches, temples, and synagogs(i hope i spelled that correctly). Those people are not persecuted. I don`t see a probelm in that either. I really don`t understand why you are saying that it is one.

If Pakistan was a Christian run country, I really wouldn`t care as long as I can practise my own faith freely. But if a beleif was to take over and say you can`t believe in what you believe in that is when probelms arise.

However THERE IS NO FAITH IN THE WORLD that FORCES SOMEONE TO BELIEVE ACCORDING TO THEIR RULES.

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One more thing the site ``www.answering-islam.com`` If anyone is getting their refrence of Islam from there. Good Luck to You All because that site is a complete false and incorrect explanation of Islam.

The Islamic Basis is from the beginning of Mankind. Because all Muslims believe in alla the prophets and messengers that were sent down. We do believe in the Torah, and Bible we do believe in the messages passed down to every messenger not only Muhammad(PBUH). And if you think the Quran is a different version of the Bible or its text is taken from there or from the Jews. OFCOURSE it is because God is passing down the same message again and again. Its just that people changed and reformed those previous scriptures. This is accepted by Christians and Jews themselves. The Quran is the true version of those books and can`t be changed since it is now protected by God Himself. In the Quran there is an Ayat that Challenges the people to produce a book similair to it.

So if someone is to say that thee Basis of Islam is from the Kabbah and the pagans or from Muhammad(PBUH). Its very funny and ridiculous.

If you want to know about Islam or heck even try proving it wrong. I suggest you start from reading the Quran (its Translation) and then by all means we will take it seriously. But if you go around trying to get information from different websites, your simply wasting your time.