Why Am I An Agnostic Muslim?

Mujahid Margolis

Sun, January 30, 2005
Real freedom still far off
By Eric Margolis -- Contributing Foreign Editor

Will today`s elections for 7,785 unknown candidates in violence-racked Iraq mark the dawn of genuine Mideast democracy, as U.S. President George W. Bush claims, or be another step deeper into the bloody quagmire in Mesopotamia?

First, no election held under a foreign military occupation resulting from an unjustified war is legal under international law. During the Cold War, elections staged by the Soviets after invading Afghanistan, Hungary and Czechoslovakia were rightly denounced by the U.S. as ``frauds`` and the leaders elected as ``stooges.``

Second, Shiites, excluded from political power since Britain created Iraq in 1921, will win since they represent 60% of the population. Shiite Grand Ayatollah Ali Sistani issued a fatwa, or religious decree, ordering the faithful to vote for the Shiites` coalitions.

Sistani made what some see as a pact with the devil. He is abetting at least temporary U.S. occupation and exploitation of oil-rich Iraq in exchange for Washington handing power to his fellow ``good`` Shiites -- not to be confused with Iran`s ``bad`` Shiites, who are facing U.S.-Israeli attack. ``Good`` Shiites don`t sport turbans; they sideline clerics and avoid angry Islamic mutterings.

Iraq`s pro-U.S. Kurds will elect their own coalitions determined to keep their oil revenues and create a state independent in all but name.

Sunnis have lost all the power and perks they previously enjoyed, they lead resistance against U.S. occupation. They will be the odd men out, at the mercy of the hated Shiites, a sect long persecuted by mainstream Sunni Muslims as dangerous heretics and fanatics.

Third, the U.S.-``guided`` regime emerging from the vote will be one of form without much substance, unless a new Shiite regime revolts and asserts its independence.

For now, Iraq`s real government will continue to be the U.S. Embassy in Baghdad, the world`s largest, and 150,000 U.S. occupation troops.

Every important Iraqi ministry is run by U.S. ``advisers`` who call the shots and allocate all spending. Power comes from guns and money. The U.S. controls and pays Iraq`s low-morale police and native troops who, in a nation with 70% unemployment, mostly serve to feed families.

VOTE TO END MISERY

Iraq`s entire budget comes from sporadic oil exports and U.S.-dispensed aid (the latest bill for Bush`s wars in Iraq and Afghanistan: $240 billion US).

Many Iraqis will vote for anyone promising to end violence and social misery. But just as many nationalists and Islamists, excluded from the election process, are voting their own way -- with bullets and bombs. Washington calls them ``terrorists,`` but the UN Charter enshrines people`s right to resist foreign occupation.

A ``Muslim-lite`` turbanless Shiite regime allied to Washington will immediately have to face Kurdish secessionists and Sunni insurgents. Younger, more nationalistic Shiites with connections to Tehran will try to oust the ``quietist`` collaborationist Sistani faction once Shiites are firmly in power. More, rather than less, violence is likely, with Sistani a prime bomb target.

Iraq, like Humpty Dumpty, is broken and may never be put together. That`s fine with the Bush administration`s pro-Israel hawks who engineered this war. A shattered Iraq will never challenge Israel`s nuclear monopoly.

But not fine for the U.S. A senior commander just warned that 130,000 U.S. troops must stay in Iraq until at least 2007, maybe much longer. Iraqization, like Vietnamization, has proved a chimera. So, too, plans to plunder Iraq`s oil. Meanwhile Pentagon brass are livid over neo-con plans to launch a new war against Israel`s principal enemy, Iran.

This ``guided`` election is Bush`s best last chance to declare a titanic victory, then bring all his troops home to a big ticker-tape parade before Iraq dissolves into bloody chaos or is taken over by Iran. Otherwise, the U.S. will be stuck forever to its Iraqi tar baby, ruing the day it overthrew old ally, Saddam.

A truly independent regime will eventually emerge in Baghdad when the U.S. finally runs low on money, men and crusading will power.

We`ll know for sure real freedom has dawned in Iraq when Baghdad orders U.S. troops out, raises oil prices, rebuilds its armed forces, and renews support for the Palestinian cause.

Amit #286: I think you are looking at the world, through the US media and US govt. propaganda. Certain individuals, including yourself, Hamidm, tahmad etc. tend to look at the whole world in a manner that the US wants them to. This is probably because your exposure is based on what you see in the USA media. Unfortunately, you are getting a very biased view of the world, and the wars the USA is involved in. This is how most of the USA was convinced that Iraq had WMDs.

I have access to US media and Canadian media. And there is a world of difference in how the Iraq war etc. is shown. There are, on a very regular basis, Muslim, Arab and Iraqi commentators on Canadian talk shows. One rarely sees them on CNN, FOX, CBS etc. Dissenters like Chomsky, Tariq Ali, Gwen Dwyer, Naomi Campbell, Gore Vidal etc. are regular occurrences on mainstream TV, here. I never saw them in the USA, anywhere other than tiny democracyNow and NPR.

Chomsky and Tariq etc. are cult figures here. So the world, including the non-US Western world, is looking at the USA (and Israel), and their conflicts with the Muslim civilization in a completely different light than what the citizens of the USA are told.

Now to your points:

“OBL has marginal interest in Kashmir or even Israel. His goal has been to impose a wahabi theocracy in the middle-east starting with the Saudis.”

First of all, Saudi Arabia is already a Wahhabi theocracy. The royal family rules based on fatwas from the Wahhabi clerics. Not to mention security umbrellas provided by the USA. And odd combination…….

I never stated that OBL had anything to do with Kashmir. Him, Saddam, Yasir Arafat have never supported Kashmir. Currently his stance centers on Saudi Arabia and Palestine. Though you are correct, he did not originally start off from Palestine. However, I don’t think he wants to convert every American to Islam, either. Having said that, you need to stop centering on OBL as the central rep of Muslims. He is a head of one non-state organization.

As long as you keep viewing the world as OBL vs. West, you will always have an incorrect picture.

“Anyway, let`s look at the big picture today. I hope you agree that relations between muslims and non-muslims are bad right now. If you do not agree, then there is nothing to talk about.”

Actually, I don’t agree with this. This is the US (and Israeli) view of the world. Not the Chinese view or the Venezualan or Chilean view. Nor the Russian, South African, Vietnamese or even French view.

I will give you good solid facts, on why. Incidentally, I am still waiting for you to provide counterpoints to the original two points I made: a) Muslim civilization on the HDI scale, in comparison to other civilizations b) More members of Muslim civilization being killed by those of other civilizations. This is where you need to look to find the answer………

Let us look at the world, in terms of Huntington’s civilizations again:

1. The Muslim civilization is not in conflict of any kind with the Japanese, Sinic, Bhuddhist, African, or Latin civilizations. Specifically because neither has occupied each other’s land, directly or indirectly. There might be a small skirmish here or there amongst fringe groups, but nothing even minor. In fact, many Muslim civilization countries have started leaning towards China, as a counter to the USA.

2. Is the Muslim civilization in conflict with the Hindu civilization? You seem to be suggesting, “Yes.” I say definitely, “No.” There are around 56 Muslim countries, and two and a half Hindu countries that constitute these civilizations, respectively.

How many of these countries are fighting with each other? Only two. Pakistan and India are in conflict, over Kashmir. India has no conflict, of any kind, with the other 55 Muslim countries (except maybe Bangladesh, with which it has border skirmishes). In fact, Indians go out of their way to highlight this to Pakistanis. And Pakistan has no problems with Nepal or Sri Lankan Tamils. And even in case of Kashmir, if self-determination is allowed, I think Pakistan and India will end up becoming very close friends.

If the Hindu and Muslim civilizations were in conflict, Muslim countries would not be inviting Hindus, by the droves, to work in their countries.

This leaves the Orthodox and Western civilizations. These are the two civilizations with whom the Muslim civilizations had or have conflicts. But only with a few countries: Russia, Serbia, Israel and USA. The catalyst for these has been Soviet invasion of Afghanistan and Israel’s occupation of Palestinian lands.

More on this in the next reply.

But I would like to suggest to you that you, “get out” and see the world a bit. The rest of the world views the world differently than the USA views it. I think you are greatly underestimating how unpopular a Bush-led USA has become in the world………including the Western world.

Interestingly, USA is the one country that is actually in conflict with the most civilizations; primarily because it needs their resources to support its high standard of living.. It is in conflict directly with the Muslim and Latin American civilizations. It has attacked directly, or indirectly, so many countries belonging to these two civilizations. It is in conflict with the Sinic civilizations. It attacked Vietnam ferociously and is in a kind of semi-cold war with China. It has been in conflict with the Orthodox civilizations. It was in a huge cold war with Russia and bombed the crap out of Serbia. It bombed the crap out of two members of the Bhuddhist civilization (Laos and Cambodia). And it dropped not one, but two, atomic bombs on the Japanese civilization.

In fact, the only two civilizations with which the USA has not been in conflict with are the Hindu civilization and the African one. Primarily because, it hasn’t seen either as competition yet. But that may change……….

Perhaps, the reason you have a certain world-view is because you were born into the Hindu civilization as an Indian, and then moved to the Western civilization as an American. Both countries in conflict with a Muslim country, at the moment. Had you been born into the Hindu civilization as a Hindu Tamil Sri Lankan, and moved to France, you would probably view , statistically speaking, Bhuddist civilization as the enemy and be an anti-American Frenchman. And you would be more pro-Muslim, since Tamils have no conflicts with Muslims, are France is very popular amongst Arabs.

Mubashir Butt,

One can wreck one`s own brain (or of others) in search for answers concerning existence of God. Does God exist? Does God not exist?

If the above article be your personal statement and manisfested state, to me, you sound confused. And I mean that in all positive glory. For according to one of my professors in the college days, Dr. Carrell, it is a good thing because it sows within your mind a wretched seed of questioning inquiry.

I often come across people who ask, ``What is the answer? What is the answer?`` Rather, what they more articulately ought to be asking is, ``What is my answer?`` We can debate over matters of this nature endlessly, philosophize.

But in the end, it boils down to one simple fact ... the fact that one MUST have TOTAL faith either for something or against something. Life is a vast expanse of inordinately sublime and subliminal void, and to live means to journey from one end of this void to another ... beginning at the beginning of oneself and ending at the end when perhaps one might see the angel of death sitting on the ceiling fan, waiting.

But if you have one foot in the water and the other on sand, you can not make the journey. For to make the journey, one must be resolute in one`s stand, neglect and forgo one way and walk the other. Which way you ask? - You decide.

Peace!

tahmed32:

For any chowki reading your post as well as mine, it is easy to see who is spewing hatred, your post is full of ABUSE. I am only raising questions. MohaMAD is still spelt correctly. There is no one way to spell any name especially when it is written from one language to another.

And I know You have read what I posted,even though you lie here that you haven`t read. I know a human mind. Instead of abusing me for RAISING QUESTIONS, do some introspection on why you end up with lies and abuse. Why you are not able to answer questions about mohaMED. Why you are so scared of even attempting to try to answer questions. WHY? Everybody on chowk knows that you resorted to personal abuse when you COULDN`T have the honesty and guts to answer some critical and very rational questions with facts and proof. Again give it another shot and ATLEAST TRY after introspection.

sinbgularity: This is the second lengthy post you have addressed to me - that I am not going to waste my time reading. And the second time I am telling you to go to hell.

Just for the record: you are a hindu chauvinist lowlife, dripping with hatred for other religions even as you speak from both sides of your face. Your hatred is so great that you are unable to refer to the prophet Muhammed by his proper name even as you deny your hatred for muslims. So quit trying to have a ``discussion`` - and go and burn some more muslim children in Gujerat (be sure to join a mob of those cowardly skinny little hindutva men, since individually you may get a thrashing even from the 12 year old girls that you thugs burnt in Gujerat). Bloody hindutva freak!!

tahmed #298:

One last time, let us see if you have the honesty and guts to answer me directly instead of calling names behind my back.

Let us compare the cosmic god to the one defined by semitic religions and Islam in particular. Now we all agree that there is Only one Universal god(or Brahman). So who created the satan as a parrallel authority which is almost as powerful as god herself? So is Satan the power of the Parallel Universe, if there is one? Why was Satan created?

Now if god creates humans and sends prophets like MohaMAD, then how is that 80% of humans who are non-muslims suddenly become SATAN/Evil infidels? How did that happen? And suppose the very same Satan infidel changes his name to arabized one, how does he/she suddenly become god`s creation? All that changes is a name and the convert has to start following certain arab myths and arab cultural practices. And ofcourse calls god in arabic language. Do you think a god which created the entire universe full of billions of galaxies is worried about the language of worship or the name of a person or the cultural settings? And more importantly, why is the universal god so specific about EVERYTHING ARAB?

And the universal god says that anybody who doesn`t follow the rules set up by MohaMAD , the arab tribal, as written in Koran are all Infidel Satan/Evil and they go to hell? Now in the cosmic scheme of things, where is heaven and hell? And According to islam god set the rules using his beloved prophet MohaMAD. And anybody who converts will go to heaven else they go to hell fire.

3) Now, the god who has created the entire universe with billions of galaxies comes to earth and plays all these conversion games and sells tickets to heaven and hell. What about the other galaxies, does she play the same games with other living beings there also and sell tickets to heaven and hell there? And it is very easy to get the heaven tiocket, just ARABIZE everything and the ticket to heaven is right there.

God seems to like only the humans and muslims(especially the arabs of course) among the billions of galaxies and potentially zillions of other life forms. And god spoke ONLY to 2 humans in the entire human history(Jesus and MohaMAD). And maybe to the Infidel/ SATAN avatar Krishna. Or maybe Satan told that to Krishna :) God seemed to have forgotten to talk to anybody recently. Hitler tried to connect with God but alas, the rest of the humans calling themselves as evolved and intelligent, wont let that happen.

Please reply to my questions with a cool, logical mind and no emotions. Thank you.

Further to #298 And I forgot to mention Iraq where 8 million Iraqi voters proved you wrong - and earned the respect of the world for standing up to intimidation by insurgents and proudly and openly showing they voted. Afghanistan (which has been surging forward at incredible 30% growth rates over the past two years, which even from the low base it started says something for its future) too had fair elections. Granted that in both places the US played a key role - but then, Japan and Germany learnt about democracy from the US as well, and have now matured into two of the most progressive and economically powerful nations of the world.

Just thought I would add this to bring you up to date on the State of the Muslim World on which my more complete report is in #298.

hamidm #294 you write ``......... the problem with muslims today is that they simply love to wallow in misery and kind of enjoy their victim status - doing anything positive to improve their lot is just too much work ! ......... ``

That is unadulterated hogwash. I dont know which muslims you are thinking of, but it certainly doesnt apply to the vast majority of muslims - The Turks have a democratic government which is negotiating its merger with the European Union. Iran is under mullah rule, but there is clearly widespread pressure for democratization and the only reason there is not an open revolution is because the mullahs have tried to be flexible to these pressures. The gulf states are booming commercially and the stirrings of a free press are already there. There are moves towards modernization - Qatar has banned use of boys in camel racing, and a firm is making robot camel jockeys (google and find out more if this seems too far fetched). There are vocal dissident groups among saudis that are based in UK. Need I mention malaysia. Indonesia is a vast and beautiful country that is moving forward at a good clip. Both malaysia and indonesia are now counted (after mahatir and suharto) among the democracies. Pakistanis have migrated all over the world and form a vast and successful expat community spread across many continents.

So, the only one wallowing in self-pity seems to be you. So cheer up and try to keep up with the rest of us muslims!! Things are not all that bad.

btw, dont look to Singularity for any lessons in enlightenment. He is just another primitive hindu extremist specimen that we are blessed with on chowk about whom the less said the better.

Rather than wasting time and debating with former subjects , it is far far better to talk about the good news which is generally seldom reported by the biased Satanic media.

It is sad but true that hindus are ashamed of their religion. Few even know the original teachings which are nothing but teachings of Ibrahim`s faith. When hindus abandon the corruption which has entered into its present ` religion` it is closer to Islamic teachings. Muslims too have become corrupted and acquired a lot of kafir superstitions, and have become mushriks & munafiques. They all have to seek Islam.

There`s no way out!

Why thousands upon thousands convert to Islam every year. France alone gets over 50000 ( yeah that is 50thousand) converts EVERY YEAR!

---

12 Asian women embrace Islam at Auqaf department’s pavilion at DSF
By a staff reporter

31 January 2005


DUBAI — Twelve non-Muslim Asian women embraced Islam on Saturday at Al Huda Oasis, the pavilion of Auqaf and Islamic Affairs department in Muraqqabat Street.

An Indian and 11 Chinese women converted to Islam at the amphitheatre of the pavilion in the presence of Dr Hamad Alshaibani, Director-General of Al Auqaf, Ibrahim Saleh, DSF coordinator, Shaikh Mohammed Al Ledaley, Chief Moftey of Auqaf, and Jassim Al Awazi, Head of activities Committee of Muraqqabat Street.

Shaikh Mohammed Al Ledaley spoke a few words on the occasion and also helped the women say their Shahadah (belief in the Oneness of God). The women later declared their new Muslim names and received gifts from Dr Al Shaibani and Mr Saleh as courtesy to the Auqaf and Islamic Affairs Department.

“It was a very touching moment to see 12 women embrace Islam,” said Dr Al Shaibani. He added that Islam is a religion of peace and justice and teaches equality between all Muslim brothers regardless of their colour or languages. “The women who accepted Islam today did so because they were convinced that embracing Islam is a gift from God,” he said, adding that the Auqaf in Dubai tries its best to spread the message of Islam among all nationalities. He also said organising the Al Huda Oasis during the DSF was part of the Auqaf efforts to achieve this goal. He added that a large number of visitors get attracted to the Auqaf pavilion during the Dubai Shopping Festival.

Huda Al Kaabi, Supervisor of the ladies section at Al Huda Oasis Tent, and Head of the New Muslims Section of Auqaf, said that the pavilion served as a venue to quench the curiosity of those interested in the religion. She said all new Muslims fill out a form which helps them ascertain the reason for their conversion. Some of the top reasons they have cited are the department’s efforts in distributing books and conducting talks about Islam in various venues that gave them an inkling of the religion as it is, the decent dress code of the UAE nationals, and the general courtesy and decency of the people.

“You just can’t express in words the feelings that are evoked in you when another human being chooses the true path of God. Islam propagates equal treatment for all, and we follow that here at the pavilion by not discriminating in any sense among different nationalities,” Ms Al Kaabi said. Fatema Al Zahra, a 28-year-old Indian, who was excited about her new name among other things, said: “My interest in Islam began after I met my new neighbours who are good Muslims. I was immediately attracted to their conduct, their way of praying and the manner in which they treat each other.

Once I started observing them closely and learnt more about the religion, I realised that this was a religion of mercy, and I decided to accept it. I feel happy and relieved now — as if a great burden has been lifted off my shoulders.

“Everything seems clear. And credit is definitely due to the Al Huda Oasis which helps people understand what Islam is all about.”
The Chinese women said they were able to understand Islam after attending a series of lectures given by Safia Kamal, a preacher from Auqaf, at the factory they work in.

Only a moron like Osama Bin Laden can mouth such stupidities. This idiot has no understanding of the Western Intellectual traditions and its brilliant Universities. And he certainly has no understanding of the excellent work that have been done by the Western Civilization in the Philosophy of Religion:

``......It is saddening to tell you that you are the worst civilization witnessed by the history of mankind:

You are the nation who, rather than ruling by the Shariah of Allah in its Constitution and Laws, choose to invent your own laws as you will and desire. You separate religion from your policies, contradicting the pure nature which affirms Absolute Authority to the Lord and your Creator. You flee from the embarrassing question posed to you: How is it possible for Allah the Almighty to create His creation, grant them power over all the creatures and land, grant them all the amenities of life, and then deny them that which they are most in need of: knowledge of the laws which govern their lives? .....................``

This man is sick!!!!
http://everything.blockstackers.com/index.pl?node_id=1393057&lastnode_id=678523

Re: # 287

Does Kashmir figure in Osama`s map.?

Only supporters of Osama would mouth this untruth......and Vertex is a closet Jehadi supporter.......

``......Therefore, the call to a historical right to Palestine cannot be raised against the Islamic Ummah that believes in all the Prophets of Allah (peace and blessings be upon them) - and we make no distinction between them.

(iii) The blood pouring out of Palestine must be equally revenged. You must know that the Palestinians do not cry alone; their women are not widowed alone; their sons are not orphaned alone.

(b) You attacked us in Somalia; you supported the Russian atrocities against us in Chechnya, the Indian oppression against us in Kashmir, and the Jewish aggression against us in Lebanon.

(c) Under your supervision, consent and orders, the governments of our countries which act as your agents, attack us on a daily basis;

(i) These governments prevent our people from establishing the Islamic Shariah, using violence and lies to do so. ....................``

http://www.globalsecurity.org/security/library/report/2002/021120-ubl.htm

singularity,

......... don`t fret ... today`s jihadis are no different from the nut-case communists that were a pain in the keester for the better part of the last century ...... once the soviet union fell they all came to their senses overnight ........... as soon as saudi arabia is opened up to the rest of the world and the management of mecca and medina is turned over to disney or the un (same thing) the ummah will drop their night robes, give up speaking in tongues (arabic) and start behaving like civilized men .........

......... the problem with muslims today is that they simply love to wallow in misery and kind of enjoy their victim status - doing anything positive to improve their lot is just too much work ! .........

Re: # 292

The non-muslim world is responding by closing the jihadic frontiers. India has built fences around bangladesh and pakistan, israel has done the same. Luckily other muslim countries are seperated from the rest by seas and strict visa controls are being introduced. Technology transfers are restricted, educational opportunities are curtailed.

A society that wants the values of 7 century arabia should be provided the material infrastructure of that period and the world is trying hard to deliver that. Poverty in pakistan is on the increase, literacy rates are on the decline, crime is on the increase.

I met a person who recently returmed from Pak expo 2005, the security system was so bad, i.e gun totting troops every where, which convinced people that pakistan is not a country to visit again.

Containing jihad is a slow process, it can be acheived only denying people and technology movement to those fenced countries.

Hamid #290:

Read through my responses and NO MUSLIM RESPONDS to me COZ I SIMPLY and BRUTALLY EXPOSE THEIR Ideology as nothing more than ARAB TRIBAL BARBARISM in the name of God. Romairs, Tahmeds, Echobooms and Vertexes know and understand what i outline, just that they dont have the guts to see beyond their brainwashed ideology. But if history is any indicator, information wave will change all those closed minds for the simple reason coz the mullahs are no match for the information age.

Thats why I am all with anybody who is ready to take on the ISALMIC threat heads on. No wishy-washy secular talk like the one dished out by Amit. And Amit goes nowhere, he finally ends up talking Islamic ideology saying and I quote ``Currently the non-muslim world simply likes to blame everything on muslims. On the other hand, the muslims view themselves as victims and blame the rest of the world. Neither side is willing to listen to the other and come up with processes to change this increasingly bitter relationship``

Amit is literally accepting that the NON-MUSLIMS are wrong to defend their right NOT TO BE CALLED AS INFIDEL/SATAN and NOT TO BE SENT TO HELL by such koran BS and Megalomaniac MohaMAD. He ends up pleading for mercy from muslim jihadis.

Thats why we need to attack this threat from 2 fronts. One is to bring forward looking muslims like yourself to fight the battle for the democratic, modern, free society from inside Islam and the 2nd front should simply and absolutely crush the jihadis. Period.

Are you still looking? If so..best of luck...like everything else we need to keep trying.

You might wanna try Buddhism, a religion without God. I will be curious to know if it speaks to your heart.


Best

vertex,

..... the fact of the matter is that classical islam (aka political islam), which has many many followers, is an isidious ideology that is in violent conflict with modernity (aka western civilization) and it has many many followers ........... actually, most muslims are one takbeer short of becoming flaming jihadis and all they need is one little nudge to send them over the precipice ............. all you have to do is look at the resentment and seething hatred that afflicts muslims living in the the west - deep down they want to destroy the system that supports them and if they had their druthers they would blow themselves up in times square or trafalgar square .................

........... therfore the ideology has to be soundly defeated and thoroughly discredited before its adherents give up their wild dreams which are a nightmare for the rest of the world