Beating The Retreat

Tell me Veeru- do you routinely go to Chandni chowk with the mob to burn Muslims?

Well, Yasser, I do routinely go to Chandni Chowk with friends, many of whom happen to be Muslims. Lately we can use the Metro, so it is easier.

While there we increasingly meet up with other Muslims from the angular corners of Muslim society, and of late, many of them are Muslims who are leaving Pakistan to re-settle in India.

The reason for this is that they are safer in India. Many Muslims, including Ahmedis like you and your family, are actually safer in India, you will agree? I mean, they don`t have to go about getting converted and announcing that they are Ismailis, for example.

I had introduced a few to Ayaz Amir of Dawn the last time he was in Delhi a few months ago.

Funny you mention Chandni Chowk, though. The ruler of Saudi Arabia, keeper of the Two Mosques, was there a few days ago. As a guest of the various religions which have eminent presence there, Hindu, Muslim, Sikh, Christian and Jain.

I know this will hurt you, Yasser, but truly, India is a safer place for Muslims.

Ref veeresh #2

[I know this will hurt you, Yasser, but truly, India is a safer place for Muslims.]

What Pakistanis in general, and our dear Yasser Latif Hamdani in particular, cannot handle is that there is no way three Muslims can get together without arguing about who is superior: Sunni, Shia or Ismaili. They all of course agree on one thing: the Ahmediyyas ought to be killed for calling themselves Muslims.

With that kind of a basic premise to start with, there is no way Pakistan will EVER be able to build any kind of institutions that will lead to democracy. He knows that too.

He also knows that the last chance for civilized behavior by the people populating the Indus basin was gambled and lost by Jinnah, a non-native of that region. Hence his constant diatribes against India.

Case of sour grapes!

good job shriman..i can see a subedar-saab with wrinkled skin shouting.

tv would always show the camels against the r. bhavan

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Bring me one Ahmadi, Shia, Sunni or Ismaili ... or even Hindu or Christian who has seen this kind of brutality in recent times.

Yasser, how far back in history, and how much of a geographical spread, do you want?

And then factor in the weightage you want to give for freedom of the press in reporting events.

If I were you, I would not be sitting in LaHore covering cricket or marathons. I would be out there discovering the truth in Baluchistan.

+++

As you should discover the truth about Kashmir (though it can`t be compred to Balochistan which is minor tribal sardars), the tragedy of 1984, Nagaland etc...

The point is that despite all that drivel about being better than us (``secular`` ``democratic`` etc etc) - you still burn more people, maim more non-Hindus etc all in the name of faith...

I am quite confident about my stances... and I speak as a member of two sects, one of which is a minority now and the other which is supposedly persecuted, and I am glad every day that I was not born in that fascist hell hole where people get burnt for believing in a certain religion.

#8 by Mantolives

[The point is that despite all that drivel about being better than us (``secular`` ``democratic`` etc etc) - you still burn more people, maim more non-Hindus etc all in the name of faith...]

Equally more minorities make a mark for themselves compared to the land of the pure. Where is an Abdul Kalam or an Azim Premji in Pakistan? Rana Bhagwan Das, Danish Kaneria or Deepak Parwani are not the only Hindus in Pakistan. There are others too, about whom Mariana Babar wrote in the Outlook. As for burning or maiming minorities, all those you could have burnt or maimed have either been converted (Yousuf Youhana or even Yasser Latif Hamdani) to the true faith or reduced to being toothless second-class citizens. If a privileged citizen like Youhana must convert to win approval, what is the plight of an ordinary citizen?

Azim Premji and Abdul Kalam are not the only Indian Muslims...

And contrary to the brainwashing that goes on in India- no Non-hindus have not been converted and we`ve been over this... Pakistan Christian Congress claims there are 15 million Christians in Pakistan... census accepts some 3 million... and 2.44 million Hindus... there are cities in Interior Sindh which are completely Hindu.

And here is Deepak Perwani from a very influential Hindu family in Sindh:

http://www.deepakperwani.com/

He is also one of Pakistan`s leading fashion designers and the A-List party goer- the mover and shaker so to speak.

Rana Bhagwandas is a Supreme Court Justice... that is a much more important post than a ceremonial president... and the difference... Bhagwandas is a devout Hindu.

Non-Muslims in second line. Make the correction.

Outlook India, Sept. 5, 2004

http://www.columbia.edu/itc/mealac/pritchett/00islamlinks/txt_kali_karachi/txt_kali_karachi.html
Sanjoy Ghosh
Kali idols in Karachi`s posh Clifton area

HINDUS IN PAKISTAN
Jai Kali Karachi Wali
They have their gods, their weddings, their businesses. These Hindus just happen to be living in Pakistan.

MANU JOSEPH


Bani is a Gujarati lady with moist red teeth and a wicked gleam in her eye. When she`s in a good mood, the ancient temple sweeper with no confirmed human master will admit to being ``between sixteen and eighty years old.``

She sits at the gate of the Lakshmi Narayan temple, a small impoverished shrine that stands at one end of a creek in Karachi`s prime real estate. Four young girls walk to the gate. The sheer beauty of two is completely wasted on Bani, who stops the girls with a wave and asks them to leave: ``Muslims aren`t allowed in.``

``We just want to walk around and look,`` one of the girls, Rumi, says.

``Then go to the zoo,`` retorts Bani.

To the conventional secular urban sophisticate, this may sound like the dangerous portent of violent religious conflict. But there is no malice here. The entire exchange on this breezy Karachi evening is just about a marking of territory.

The Muslim girls are far from hurt. They plead between giggles. ``We just want to pray.`` Hirakumari, a few months pregnant and related in some complicated way to Bani, tells them, ``Go pray to your god. You eat cows, make fun of our gods, ask if our gods don`t feel cold, being naked...``

But she then turns and whispers with a smile, ``They are actually lovely people, these Muslims. They will feed us for the rest of our lives, if it comes to that. Pakistan is the only place I call home but how can we let Muslims inside (the temple)?``


A volunteer allowing entry only to Hindus in the temple

A similar scene plays out at a crowded Shiva temple in Karachi`s posh Clifton neighbourhood. It`s Monday night, the busiest spell in the temple`s week. Jayanti Ratna stands with a stick at the gate and screams `Jai Shiv Shankar`. When someone doesn`t respond he stops the trespasser with, ``Muslims and Christians are not allowed.``

Does it feel strange for a Hindu man in Pakistan to stand by a busy pavement and block local Muslims? ``Not at all. I was born here. I belong here. I will exercise my right to serve my faith.``

Today Pakistan`s Hindus number somewhere between 2.5 million (a somewhat suspect official estimate) and 5 million (according to popular Hindu politician Kishinchand Parwani). Over 95 per cent of them live in the province of Sindh; most are poor farmers and labourers from the scheduled castes.


Deepak Perwani with his parents

Many of the worshippers at Karachi`s temples are somewhat better off, and the calm affluence of Karachi`s wealthier Hindus is worlds apart. Thirty-year-old Deepak Perwani, his hair dyed red, and a Ganesha tattooed on his right arm, is one of Pakistan`s top fashion designers. His quick Indo-Pak analysis: ``There is one major difference. Indians can`t cut a salwar to save their lives and Pakistanis can`t cut a churidar!``

As with many Hindus here, `Inshallah` slips out of his mouth easily as a prelude to anything and he eats beef, never pork. A travel agent once booked him into a Lahore hotel as an Indian. ``I was pissed off. I struck out the word Indian and wrote Pakistani.`` Six years ago when he wanted to open a store on an upmarket Karachi street, his friends asked him not to flaunt his name outside. But he was soon forced by market pressure to put his brand up in massive type—Deepak Perwani. ``There`s been no trouble, not a single incident outside my shop.``

Perwani is celebrated and patronised by the rich and mighty of Pakistan, even honoured as the country`s cultural ambassador to China. But he has just one ``small problem`` being in Pakistan.

``Mathematical chance isn`t on the side of a Sindhi Hindu looking for a suitable arranged match within the small community. The girl has to be imported,`` Perwani says, ``since I am doing too well here to be exported.`` His mother Renu will parade him in Bombay, Dubai and Hong Kong, but as she says with motherly concern, ``People in India or Dubai don`t want their daughters to live in Pakistan. It`s a mindset.``

Renu`s endearing motherly look turns somewhat severe when she considers the options for her son, ``I would never accept a Muslim girl in my house. All my friends are Muslims and I know they are very beautiful people, cultured and nice. But a daughter-in-law is a different matter.`` In any case, her son can`t marry a Muslim; Islamic law prohibits a Muslim marrying a Hindu. ``I`d have to convert,`` says Deepak. ``And I would never do that.``


Danish Kaneria, cricketer and Hindu, his parents and wife Dharmita

In between the rich Sindhis and the poor Hindu farmers of rural Sindh is the middle-class setting of Danish Kaneria`s home. The leg-spinner is only the second Hindu to play cricket for Pakistan. His new wife Dharmita is also part of the same Gujarati community. ``We met at a festival,`` Dharmita says, almost shyly. Danish`s elder brother Vikrant is engaged to Dharmita`s sister, who will also live in the four-bedroom flat soon.


A Hindu devotee feeding a calf in the Swami Narayan temple in Karachi

Mrs Kaneria talks fondly about the temples of India, often referring to the country as ``apna desh``. Vikrant is surer of where he belongs. He echoes a popular belief among the elite here that life for the educated is much better in Pakistan than in India. ``And there is no discrimination at all,`` he says. ``The fact that my brother is playing for Pakistan proves that.``

Kishinchand Parwani, a member of the National Assembly (equivalent to the Indian Member of Parliament) from 1988 to 1997, recalls that right up to the late `80s a steady stream of Hindus would migrate to India. ``That was because of home-sickness but they soon realised that in India nobody was going to hug and welcome them just because they were Hindus from Pakistan. Hindus are safe in Pakistan but there is this fear that if anything like Babri Masjid happens, we will have to bear the brunt again. That was the only time Hindus here felt threatened.``


Film distributor Satish Anand (actress Juhi Chawala`s uncle) has released over 450 Pakistani films

A day after the demolition of the Babri Masjid, his staff told Satish Anand not to attend office. Anand, who is film actress Juhi Chawla`s uncle and a Punjabi Hindu settled in Karachi, runs Eveready Films, which has distributed over 450 Pakistani films and a few Hindi films like Awara and Barsat. ``It was the only time I felt like I was in someone else`s country,`` he says. ``After that things have been peaceful.``

Yet beyond Karachi, low-caste Hindus in Sindh`s small villages face a different reality. ``The number of reported cases of violence against Hindus resulted in a distinct worsening in their plight over the year,`` says a report of the Human Rights Commission of Pakistan (HRCP). ``On September 17, 2003, in broad daylight six armed persons attempted to rape three Hindu women. According to local Hindus, this was the seventeenth incident in the area in 2003.``

Still, HRCP`s Nadia Haroon will make a distinction between crime against Hindus and communal violence. ``The attack on Hindu women is part of crime against rural women in general in Pakistan. Hindus are rarely targeted because they are Hindus but since the justice system is so slow and in some cases biased against minorities, criminals here feel that they can get away with such attacks on Hindus.``


A worker at the Hindu crematorium outside Karachi with the ashes waiting to be collected by relatives in India

On the outskirts of Karachi, near a graveyard, the Afghan taxi driver turns philosophical under the intense afternoon heat.``When it all ends, Hindus and Muslims go to the same place.`` Here, by a Muslim graveyard is a Hindu crematorium. It has a library, though there are no books, only the ashes of Hindus who have passed on. The relatives await the visas that will let them immerse their ashes in the Ganga. In India.

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#10 by Mantolives

[Azim Premji and Abdul Kalam are not the only Indian Muslims...]

Yes, they aren`t the only Indian Muslims to have made a mark. There are any number of them and I can go on and on. It is Pakis who always have these three names as the stock answer to questions about the marginalization of minorities.

[And contrary to the brainwashing that goes on in India- no Non-hindus have not been converted and we`ve been over this...]

Mariana Babar of the Outlook is as Paki as you are and very recently wrote about this problem. Hindu girls kidnapped, forcibly converted and then married off to their Muslim abductors. Will find the link for you in a few moments.

[Pakistan Christian Congress claims there are 15 million Christians in Pakistan... census accepts some 3 million... and 2.44 million Hindus... there are cities in Interior Sindh which are completely Hindu.]

Isn`t it odd that despite your claim that there are so many Hindus and Christians in Pakistan, just three names have made it to the top?

[Rana Bhagwandas is a Supreme Court Justice... that is a much more important post than a ceremonial president... and the difference... Bhagwandas is a devout Hindu.]

Wow! Nice spin. If it is such a ceremonial post, why is he barred from becoming the President?

Nobody said Pakistan was perfect- I wouldn`t be so hyper if it was... but you can see from post 12 that the truth is very different than what you Indies spin.

And yes the fact that Bhagwandas can`t become the President is wrong - but there was lively debate and if Democracy is allowed to work- inshallah these illogical inane stupidities will also be wiped off.

And btw- my paper was the first to report the Hindu women`s abduction one and a half months ago... thats where you guys picked it up from.

Here`s the link:

Sindh`s Stolen Brides

Harish are you blind?

I pointed out to you that my paper reported this a long time ago...

So what is your point ?