Two Score and Ten

VERY GOOD ESSAY
EXPLORING ESSAY IN A MULTIDIMENTIONAL WAY

Why not refer to the ``Perfumed Garden`` as an Arab text, which it is. Why write ``from North Africa``?

Hallo... a lot of good books you have got here! I have read most of what you listed. ``Samarkand`` was fun. I would like to write historical fiction some day.

-zensufi.com-

you fergot to include manual for Hukka-Pani written in khalid arabic. One has to be high on gudgudi to read it. gudgudi is only possessed by esteemed allama of arabic land. only rich and priveleged ones can visit once in their life time. For us commoners Resnick Haliday is better than freeman so that we can clear JEE of IITs.

Naqsh,

I was going to sit this one out … but after reading your senseless comments, I am compelled to share a Sufi tale. But first a basic definition … which will become important later …

Grinding stone …

This is a hefty, round, stone … probably a couple of feet in diameter … used for grinding grain into flour (aka chakki). Grain is poured into a hole in the center, wheel is turned, and out comes powdered flour.

On with the story …

Once there was a king, to whom a son was born. When the prince was a few years of age, the king gathered the noble and wise men from across the country. He asked them to make the young prince a wise man.

The noble men took the prince into their care, and kept him there for a full decade. They educated him, taught him to read, write, taught him wisdom and knowledge. Once the prince was all grown up, they took him back to the king. “Your Highness, your prince is now a wise man”, they proudly exclaimed to the king.

The king wanted to test the intelligence and wisdom of this son. He took off a ring from his finger, clasped it into his fist, and asked the prince, “can you tell what I am holding in my hand?”.

The prince contemplated for a while. He studied motion of stars, consulted astrology charts … and thought deeply. He was able to figure out that whatever is in the king’s hand is solid, round, and hollow. After a long pause, he spoke softly: “Your Highness, there is a grinding stone in your hand”.

Moral of the story …

This story teaches us that … you can take an idiot, educate him all you want, make him read books, and try to make him a wise man. But after all the effort … an idiot remains an idiot. And that’s life.

Now, how is this tale relavent here, I’ll let you figure it out.

PS: This simple story ranks pretty high up for me. Even the book of allah from three-winged gabriel speaks of such idiots … when it refers to ullema as donkeys carrying loads of books. This is an obvious hint for you ... little prince …

James Joyce`s Ulysses on the Web

Yasser,

I haven`t read Seerat un Nabi by Naumani and Nadvi sahib.
Nechariyya is the Urdu form of Naturalist --ie. those people who were so impressed by British science of the Victorian era that they tried to give new meanings to Qur`anic verses to fit in with what was vogue then: Heaven and Hell weren`t physical places but states of mind, angels were forces such as electromagnetism and other such rubbish against the pristine teachings of Islam! People like Sir Ahmad Khan of Aligarh were prime examples of such murtads.

:-)

As an aside to my last post, the work Fatawa Razviyyah is the greatest work of Hanafi fiqh to emerge from the Subcontinent in the last 100 years without doubt.

***

hamid,

have you read Ulysses by Joyce? Because most people who criticise it haven`t actually read it! Those who can appreciate style and great prose will not hesitate to call it a masterpiece.
Joyce pioneered so many things which are taken for granted now in novels such as the stream of consciousness style exemplified below:



Excerpt from James Joyce`s Ulysses

...I know them well who was the first person in the universe bnefore there was anybody that made it all who ah that they dont know neither do I so there you are they might as well try to stop the sun from rising tomorrow the sun shines for you he said the day we were lying among the rhododendrons on Howth head in the grey tweed suit and his straw hate the day I got him to propose to me yes first I gave him the bit of seedcake out of my mouth and it was leapyear like now yes 16 years ago my God after that long kiss I near lost my breath yes he said I was a flower of the mountain yes so we are flowers all a womans body yes that was one true thing he said in his life and the sun shines for you today yes that was why I liked him because I saw he understood or felt what a woman is and I knew I could always get round him and I gave him all the pleasure I could leading him on till he asked me to say yes and I wouldnt answer first onlly looked out over the sea and the sky I was thinking of so many things he didnt know of Mulvey and Mr Stanhope and Hester and father and old captain Groves and the sailors playing all birds fly and I say stoop and washing up dishes they called it on the pier and the sentry in front of the governors house with the thing round his white helmet poor devil half roasted and the Spanish girls laughing in their shawls and their tall combs and the auctions in the morning the Greeks and the jews and the Arabs and the devil knows who else from all the ends of Europe and Duke street and the fowl market all clucking outside Larby Sharons and the poor donkeys slipping half asleep and the vague fellows in the cloaks asleep in the shade on the steps and the big wheels of the carts of the bulls and the old castle thousands of years old yes and those handsome Moors all in white and turbans like kinds asking you to sit down in their little bit of a shop and Ronda with the old windows of the posadas 2 glancing eyes a lattic hid for her lover to kiss the iron and the wineshops half open at night and the castanets and the night we missed the boat at Algeciras the watchman going about serene with his lamp and O that awful deepdown torrest O and the sea the sea crimson sometimes like fire and the glorious sunsets and the figtrees in the Alameda gardens yes and all the queer little streets and the pink and blue and yellow houses and the rosegardens and the jessamine and geraniums and cactuses and Gibraltar as a girl where I was a Flower of the mountain yes when I put the rose in my hair like the Andalusian girls used or shall I wear a red yes and how he kissed me under the Moorish wall and I thought well as well him as another and then I asked him with my eyes to ask again yes and then he asked me would I yes to say yes my mountain flower and first I put my arms around him yes and drew him down to me so he could feel my breasts all perfume and yes his heart was going like mad and yes I said yes I will Yes.

(taken from http://hometown.aol.com/steinway1/english100_ulysses.html)

Re: # 14

Yasser,

yes one of thanvi`s mureeds saw a dream in which he heard himself recite the kalimah with thanvi`s name in it as listed in my earlier post. what i posted then is thanvi`s reply to reassure his mureed that it was okay!

***

on the Nadwatul Ulama and why I oppose them [as explained below by my beloved Imam, Ala Hadrat Shaykh Imam Ahmad Raza Khan alayhi rahmatu wa ridwan]:




Question 8: ``In the last two years, this kind of people have multiplied in India. An organization named `Nadwat ul-ulama` has been founded in claim of service to Islam and to awaken Muslims. Here, every kind of people and those with heretical beliefs have gathered, and la-madhhabi people, including a few belonging to Ahl as-Sunnat, have taken hold of high chairs. What would you say about this?``

Answer 8: This behavior of them is haram and heretical. It is intended to estrange Muslims with little knowledge from their madhhabs. Such Muslims, upon seeing heretical men of religion in cooperation with Ahl as-Sunnat scholars all sitting at the same line of chairs, think of those heretics also as respectful and beneficial. They begin to show respect for them, which is sinful. Islamic religion commands humiliation and severe treatment of the men of bidat and forbids showing respect to them. In `aqa`id books, for example, in Sharh al-maqasid, the `ulama` of Islam wrote, ``It is necessary to treat severely, to humiliate, to refute and to expel the men of bidat.`` When Muslims see them at high ranks, their hearts incline to listen to them and, with the Satan`s cheating, begin to love them. In actual fact, those who cooperate with the men of bidat cause the dissention of them from the right path. Gathering of people with different beliefs results in the destruction of the religion. Those who say that they will wake up Muslims, in fact, try to poison them and lead them to disaster.

Question 9: ``The aim in the establishment of this organization, Nadwa, has been asserted to be the abolition of the difference between the Sunni and other groups of bidat. `They should not refuse one another`s beliefs, but live brotherly. `Ulama` should not speak or write on the beliefs in disagreement among themselves. Or else, they set a bad example to be copied by all Muslims and their disciples. Difference and argument cause perishing and stem from the desires of nafs and self-esteem,` they say. Are these words right or wrong or excessive?``

Answer 9: When a bidat gets spread, it is fard to refute it and to try to disseminate its harmfulness and wickedness. That this is fard has been unanimously declared by the `ulama` of Islam. Salaf as-Salihin and the `ulama of all times up to now have always opposed bidat in this way. One who does not refuse the men of bidat but let them by themselves will have dissented from Muslims` unanimity, got away from the Islamic jamaat and loved bidats and offenders of bidat. And this means to discredit the Ahl as-Sunnat madhhab and the Muslims of this right path; to forbid the established reason and to command the prohibition; to lead Muslims to Allahu ta`ala`s damnation. Great alim Hadrat Ahmad ibn Hajar al-Makki, the imam of Muslims, said in the preface to his work As-sawa`iq al-muhriqa, ``Though I do not have the profound knowledge to comprehend the reality and essence of the writings in this book, I was inclined to write because of the following hadith ash-Sharif reported in Al-Jami` by Khatib al-Baghdadi: `When seditions and bidats spread and my Sahaba are slandered, those who know the reality shall declare what they know! May those who do not declare what they know be damned by Allahu ta`ala, by angels and by all people! Allahu ta`ala does not accept any of their `ibadat and goodness.` `` The statement, ``Telling what one knows causes disunion, is sinful and is self-destruction,`` is a slander against Allahu ta`ala and Islamic `ulama`, dissention from the Ahl as-Sunnat madhhab and denial or prohibition of an important fard.

Question 10: ``They say, `The most important aim of Nadwa is to annihilate the differences among Ahl al-qibla; to unite Muslims of different faith of Ahl as-Sunnat and ahl al-bidat; to do away with disagreements; to bring them all into a state of benefaction and sweet taste like milk and sugar; to render the simultaneous beat of hearts and everybody`s getting share in one`s sorrow and loss; to make known that all who say kalimat ash-shahada are brothers even if their beliefs would be different. This is aimed on account of the command in the hadith, ``Oh Muslims! Be brothers to one another!`` Disagreement on anything or speaking ill of one another is unnecessary. Such unity is a command, a fard, of Allahu ta`ala. The salat, fast and ta`at of only those who unite in this way are acceptable. Those who do not unite in this way will not attain to happiness in this and the next worlds. Moreover, unless Ahl al-qibla do not love one another, they cannot possess iman and enter Paradise. Though men`s every kind of sins may possibly be forgiven, discord and enmity between one another will not be forgiven.` ``

Answer 10: Not all of the above statements are in conformity with Islam. They are harmful to Muslims and lead them to heresy. Many hadiths and the words of Islamic imams support this. Let`s quote some of the hadiths that forbid friendship with men of bidat and command keeping away from them: the hadith reported in the Sahih of Muslim from Abu Huraira (radi-Allahu `anh) says, ``Run away from them! [So] they shall not lead you to heresy, throw you into discord!`` The hadith reported from `Abdullah ibn `Umar (radi-Allahu `anh) by Abu Dawud says, ``Do not visit them when they get sick!`` The hadith reported from Jabir by Ibn Maja (radi-Allahu `anh) states, ``Do not greet them when you encounter them!`` The hadith reported by `Ukaili from Anas ibn Malik (radi-Allahu `anh) says, ``Do not keep company with them! Do not eat or drink with them! Do not intermarry with them!`` [This hadith forbids friendship, eating and marrying with ahl al-bid`a. It is written in Hindiyya and Bahr ar-raiq, ``Zindiqs, Batinis, Ibahis and all the groups with beliefs that causes kufr are mushriks (polytheists) like idolaters and worshippers of stars. Marriage with such mushriks or intercourse with their females as jariyas is haram.`` The above writings conclude that, if the belief of those who do not belong to one of the four madhabs, that is those who are not of Ahl as-Sunna, causes kufr, they become mushriks. Marriage with them and eating the carcass they have slaughtered are haram. Of them, those whose belief does not cause kufr are ahl al-bid`a, and marriage with them is not haram; though the nikah would be sahih, not with them but with ahl as-Sunna should Muslims get married, because living with them and even greeting them are forbidden by hadiths.]

The hadith ash-Sharif reported by Ibn Hibban says, ``Do not perform their funeral prayers! Do not perform salat with them!`` The hadiths reported from Ma`adh (radi-Allahu `anh) by ad-Dailami say, ``I am not of them. And they are not of me. Jihad against them is like jihad against disbelievers.`` The hadith ash-Sharif which was reported through the ancestral succession of Imam `Ali (radi-Allahu `anh), Husain, Zain al-`Abidin `Ali, Muhammad Bakir and Imam Jafar as-Sadiq and which was said to Abu Umama states: ``Do not have relation with those in the groups of Qadari, Murjii and Khariji! They will spoil your religion. They betray as did the Jews and Christians.`` The hadith reported from Anas ibn Malik (radi-Allahu `anh) by Ibn Asakir states, ``When you meet the man of bidat, treat him harshly! Allahu ta`ala is hostile to all men of bidat. None of them will be able to pass the Sirat bridge; they will fall in Hell fire.`` The hadith reported from Hadrat `Umar (radi-Allahu `anh) by Abu Dawud and Hakim says, ``Do not be in company with people of the Qadariyya group! Do not consult them your affairs.`` The hadith reported from `Abdullah ibn Masud (radi-Allahu `anh) by Ahmad ibn Hanbal, Abu Dawud, at-Tirmidhi and Ibn Maja and from Abu Musa `l-Ashari (rahmat-Allahu `alaihim) by at-Tabarani says, ``The Sons of Israil committed sin. Their scholars advised them; they did not listen. Their scholars later talked with them. They ate and drank together. Allahu ta`ala introduced enmity among them; He condemned them through the mouths of Dawud (`alaihi `s-salam) and `Isa (`alaihi `s-salam).``

At-Tirmidhi, Abu Dawud and Ibn Maja reported from Nafi` that a man conveyed someone`s salam to `Abdullah ibn `Umar (radi-Allahu `anhuma), who said, `I have heard that he has become a man of bidat. If he is so, do not take my salam to him.`` Hasan al-Basri and Muhammad ibn Sirin said, ``Do not come together with men of bidat.`` Ayyub as-Sahtiyani said, ``I and Talaq ibn Habib were sitting together. Said ibn Jubair, passing by, said to me, `Do not sit with him! He is a man of bidat.` `` As Asma ibn Ubaid told, two men of bidat came to `Ali Sirin and said that they wanted to ask him about a hadith; ``No, don`t ask,`` he said. When they said that they will ask him about an ayat, he said, ``No! Get out of here or I will go!`` The two men left. Those who were there said, ``What if you spoke on an ayat from al-Qur`an al-karim?`` He replied, ``I feared that they would read the ayat after altering it and that this alteration might make place in my heart.`` Salam ibn Abi Muti` told that, when a man of bidat said to Ayyub that he would ask him a word, he said, ``I wouldn`t listen even a half word from you.`` Someone asked something to Said ibn Jubair, who gave no answer; when the reason was asked, he said, ``He is a man of bidat, so shouldn`t be talked with.`` Abu Jafar Muhammad Bakir said, ``Do not stay near those who dispute. They give meanings to ayats as they wish.`` In the explanation of Mishkat, Imam Ahmad ibn Hajar al-Makki comments on `Abdullah ibn `Umar`s (radi-Allahu `anhuma) saying, ``Do not say my salam to...`` and adds, ``Because, we are ordered to keep away from men of bidat.`` In the explanation of the hadith, ``Do not be in company with people of the Qadariyya group,`` in the book Mirkat, it is said, ``Because, keeping company of enemies leads one to ruin and disaster.`` It is written in the book Shir`at al-Islam that Salaf as-Salihin did not get close to men of bidat since a hadith said, ``Do not stay with men of bidat! Their vices are as contagious as scabies.`` Another hadith says, ``Do not greet people of the Qadariyya group! Do not visit their sick people! Do not attend their funeral! Do not listen to their words! Give them answer sternly! Humiliate them!`` Another hadith says, ``Allahu ta`ala fills with iman the heart of him who gives stern answer to the man of bidat; He protects him against terrible things. One who disesteems the man of bidat will be saved by Allahu ta`ala against the fears of Resurrection.`` It is written in the book Irshad as-saree sharhu sahih al-Bukhari that, unless it is understood that a man of bidat has vowed for repentance, it is necessary to keep away from him.

I, the poor servant [that is, Ahmad Rida Khan], am preparing a booklet on this subject now. With documents from al-Qur`an al-karim and hadiths, I explain the necessity of keeping away from the men of bidat and treating them severely. I additionally give the comments of the `ulama`. This work will be the light for the eyes, and the remedy for the hearts.

While the harms of being together with men of bidat are that many, it should be estimated how many more the harms of loving and praising them are. A hadith says, ``One is with those whom he loves.`` Another hadith quoted by Imam `Ali (radi-Allahu `anh) and others, says, ``I swear that Allahu ta`ala will resurrect the man with those whom he loves.`` The hadith reported by at-Tabarani says, ``Allahu ta`ala will resurrect the man among those whom he loves.`` The hadith reported from Abu Huraira (radi-Allahu `anh) by Abu Dawud and at-Tirmidhi says, ``Man`s religion is similar to his friend`s religion. Everybody shall examine whom he has friendship with!`` Extensive explanation about the foregoing hadiths is given in my book Fih an-Nasrin bi jawabi `l-as`ilati `l-ishrin.

The aim of Nadwat al-`ulama` is the same as that of the damned Satan. They endeavor for the dissention of Muslims with little knowledge from the right path. They introduce a new religion with their statement, ``It is fard to unite Muslims.`` Their saying, ``Their `ibadat will not be accepted. They will not attain to blessings and happiness,`` is a slander against Allahu ta`ala. Their words, ``Dispute with and hostility towards men of bidat are sinful. This sin will not be forgiven. Pardon of it is impossible,`` show that they have dissented from the right path of Ahl as-Sunnat wal-Jamaat and that they deny the ayats which say, ``Allahu ta`ala forgives all the sins but shirk of whomever He wishes,`` and ``Allahu ta`ala certainly forgives all sins.`` Their saying, ``Pardon of this sin is impossible,`` results in their denial of these ayats. Also, they ascribe wrong meaning to the hadith, ``Allahu ta`ala`s servants, be brothers [of one another]!`` This hadith`s meaning, as reported in Umdat al-Kari and other books, is, `Do the things that will help you become brothers of one another.` Accordingly, in order for the men of bidat to become brothers to the Muslims of the right path, they should give up their bidats and accept the Sunnat. Their calling Muslims of Ahl as-Sunnat to become brothers for themselves despite their persisting in committing their bidats is an apparent heresy and an ugly deceit. [The Arabic work Fatawa`l-Haramain, from which the foregoing ten fatwas are translated, has been reproduced in offset in Istanbul. The author, Ahmad Rida Khan Barilawi, passed away in India in 1340 A.H. (1921).]

=== Interact Filtered ===
view this users filtered interacts

let`s stick with green eggs and ham ..............


``Lastly, but not least, I would like to include (50) James Joyce’s Ulysses which is a difficult yet stylistically wonderful work of English prose and widely considered the greatest novel of the twentieth century``.............

........ and that`s where mr naqshbandi lost all credibility !.......... he held out till the very end but then he succumbed to the idiocy perpetuated by impotent critics and spinster english teachers who take out their frustrations and inadequacies on the world by promoting a painful hoax ............. anyone, other than a masochistic pervert, who actually thinks it is the greatest novel ever written needs to get their head examined !............

...... i will stick with green eggs and ham (and, of course, the koran !)

Naqshbandi,

I must inform you that ZahraJ cannot read your piece in its current state.

Thank you for your response. About Thanvi... is there a context?

Please also elaborate vis a vis 1 and 2. How are the Nadwah school of thought gumrah... and what is a Nachariyah?

Also if you don`t mind ... may I know what your remedy is for those who are ``gumrah`` if they refuse to change their ways? Is it merely a question of disagreement, or do you advocate any action against them?

What do you think of Shibli Naumani`s and Suleiman Nadvi`s ``Seerat-un-Nabi``??

manto,

the only reason i dislike thanvi sahib is due to passages such as this one (from his book Hifz ul Iman):

Ashraf Ali Thaanvi writes:) ``And then attributing the knowledge of the unknown to that sacred person the Prophet… if it is true, the question is what is meant by this? Does it mean the total knowledge of the unknown, or the partial knowledge of it? If it means partial knowledge, then there is nothing special in this. Such knowledge is available to every Tom, Dick and Harry; even a child, a lunatic and all animals have this kind of knowledge``.


If this isn`t clear insolence towards the Beloved Prophet sal Allahu alayhi wa sallam (which is kufr) then what is it?

And how about this :

`There is no harm in saying ``La Ilaha Illalahu Ashraf Ali Rasoolullah`` and ``Allahuma

Salli Ala Sayidina Wa Nabeeyina Ashraf Ali``. (Risalah Al Imdaad page 35, month of

Safar 1336 H, Roodaad-e-Munaazirah ‘geya’, Al-Furqaan V 3 page 85)`.


Clear kufr.,

That is why I don`t like Mr. Thanvi. There are many other blasphemies littered in his many works; thus these nullify the good books he has written too.

I will go through the others on your list v briefly:

1) ``Nadwa`` school of thought...: innovators and gumraah

2) Allama Shibli Naumani : don`t know enough about him but his aqeedah was also dodgy and inflicted with the disease of the nechariyya.

3) Shabbir Ahmed Usmani : a good, moderate scholar from Deoband. Nothing much against him.

4) Allama Javed Ghamdi -dont know anything about him.

5) Ubaidullah Sindhi --ditto.

6) the clear split between ``Noorani`` approach and Tahirul Qadri`s world view?
I am clearly in the camp of Mawlana Noorani rahmatullah alayhi; I respect Allama Tahir ul Qadri sahib too but the only thing with him is that his opinions keep on changing depending on his audience! His written work is excellent and very beneficial.

7) The MMA alliance, particularly the JUI, and Jamaat-e-Islami Components...

I`ve got no time for JI or JUI primarily due to their Wahabi/Ahle Hadith aqaid. Also I don`t know if MMA is a good idea or not. I am unsure....
8) The Sipah Sahaba factions --have no time whatsoever for these Nasibi terrorists and baymaans.

Hope that is clear :-)

Re: # 6
The Ramayana and the Mahabharata as written by Valmiki and Vyas are hardly religious books - they`re really epics, and make great reading. Not, I`m afraid, Tulsi`s version. Now you could call that a religious book.
But all the same it was interesting reading an article like this one. Whether or not one agrees with your views about them, or your ranking.

In addition please also elaborate what you think of:

1) ``Nadwa`` school of thought...

2) Allama Shibli Naumani

3) Shabbir Ahmed Usmani

4) Allama Javed Ghamdi

5) Ubaidullah Sindhi

6) the clear split between ``Noorani`` approach and Tahirul Qadri`s world view?

7) The MMA alliance, particularly the JUI, and Jamaat-e-Islami Components...

8) The Sipah Sahaba factions