The world of the Wise Lord

Rahulmal # 8

You are right. Shia sect began from Iraq. And adoption of Shia sect by Persia was during the Safavid period (1500-1722 Ad). I did not give any time scale since it was not relevant to this article.

There is no linkage between the Persians & the reason for Iran being the only state with Shia sect being the official state Sect. It is just an observation. Some one more knowledgable on Islamic matters could possibly give a rational.

There has been some ancient link between the Vedic civilization and the Persians. Its details can be researched. I did come across it but now forget the details.

nhk

Feroz,

I found this on the net

``The magnificent palace complex at Persepolis was founded by Darius the Great around 518 B.C., although more than a century passed before it was finally completed. Conceived to be the seat of government for the Achaemenian kings and a center for receptions and ceremonial festivities, the wealth of the Persian empire was evident in all aspects of its construction. The splendor of Persepolis, however, was short-lived; the palaces were looted and burned by Alexander the Great in 331-330 B.C. The ruins were not excavated until the Oriental Institute of the University of Chicago sponsored an archaeological expedition to Persepolis and its environs under the supervision of Professor Ernst Herzfeld from 1931 to 1934, and Erich F. Schmidt from 1934 to 1939. ``

Read the whole article at http://www.iranchamber.com/history/persepolis/persepolis1.php

Re: # 2

Feroz
``The Muslim invasion of Persia was really a mortal blow to Zoroastrian culture and Zoroastrianism and the great city of Perisipolis, was destroyed by the Muslims because of the ``idols`` it contained. ``

I remember seeing a program on History Channel - Persepolis. The presenter was some renowned British archaeologist. He said that Persepolis was burnt and destroyed by Alexander. He described the Macedonians as a bunch of mountain thugs and lamented that History has suffixed `great` to his name.

If my memory serves me right, the program said that Persepolis was discovered in 20th century. It was hidden from the rest of the world and therefore escaped total destruction from iconoclasts. Infact, Pehlavis took great pride in Persepolis, Cyrus and all that is associated with these words.

I`m not sure if Muslims destroying Persepolis is historically accurate...

ferozk: greetings. you have an interesting family background. i think perhaps another reason zoroastrians are dying out is perhaps due to a low birth rate (as one would expect from an urbanized, literate people). In the US, a similar minority community - the Amish - who in fact are thriving in numbers. These people stick to the farm as part of their religious beliefs, and have lots of children.

nhk: interesting article. Zoroasterism is indeed the ``original`` religion, and what we know as the ``Abrahamic`` religions are more appropriately termed the ``Zoroasteric`` religions: some of the basic concepts underlying the abrahamic religions are actually carried over from zoroasterism (as you also allude to).

Too bad that zoroaster is now best known only in the perverted form that Nietzsche created in ``Thus Spake Zarathustra`` by having the prophet zoraster (whom he called Zarathustra) return to earth with the message that concepts of good and evil are created by the weak to protect themselves from the strong. Thus turning zoraster`s teachings on their head!!

Nazar Saab,

Thanks for a good read!

``Zoroastrianism lay waste and the Persians opted for their own version of Islam, the Shia sect. ``

Both Historically and theologically, this statement is incorrect. Shia Islam - a schism between the followers of Ali and others started in the formative years of Islam. As is well known, this sect formation or development happened in what is today`s Saudi Arabia and southern Iraq. Persians did not have a role in that. In fact, majority of Persians converted to Islam only around 10th century.

Another interesting thing is that Persians were Sunni Muslims till 16th century. Conversion to Shia Islam happened when Safavids took centrestage and declared Shia Islam as state religion.

No discussion of Zoarastrianism can be complete without ancient Persian (I forget whether it was Sassanian or Avestan). The language resembles ancient Sanskrit (Vedic) very closely. The H in Persian is S in Sanskrit. See this:
``of Zoroastrianism – Humata, Hukhta, Hvarshta``
Sumati, Su-(u)kti, Suvriti
Su - good in Sanskrit
mati - thinking, also used for brain
Ukti - spoken word
vriti - habit...not sure.

I`ve just tried a loose translation, maybe someone with better linguistic skills should help out.

Ferozk

The core concept of Zoroastrianism is exactly the same as followed by Judaism, Christianity and Islam. Differences are only in symbology and details.

This was a big surprise for me. In fact, Zoroastrianism is simpler and has a stronger ethical & environmental content.

Historically, like Judaism, it has suffered in terms of expansion because of its inter-marriage and non-conversion philosophy.

Likewise, other religions, which were not aggressive enough, lost out.

nhk

Nazar:

This was a very educational article. Sadly, as you have pointed out, the religion is dying out as the Parsis do not convert others into their faith and another reason, which you seemed to have overlooked is, most of the young Parsis are marrying outside of their faith. Hence, there are multiple reasons for the religion dwindling in numbers. The Muslim invasion of Persia was really a mortal blow to Zoroastrian culture and Zoroastrianism and the great city of Perisipolis, was destroyed by the Muslims because of the ``idols`` it contained.

Zoroastrianism is fast disappearing from Lahore, where to the best of my knowledge, there are less than 20 Parsis left. Karachi has a higher number of Parsis, but each month, on an average, one Parsi family leaves Pakistan for either Canada, Australia or the United States. There are few familes in Peshawar and as to Baluchistan, I do not have any information.

Concerning the death rituals of leaving the body to the crows, I clearly remember that when my grandfather died, he was buried and so was my grandmother. It is not a requirement to leave the body in the Tower of Silence. Incidently, if you will observe the Parsi ritual of prayer, you will notice that it is quite similar to the Jewish ritual and when a Parsi prays, he does so in a manner of a Jew; swaying gently with a forward and backwards motion. Parsis are often called and refered to as ``Jews`` because of their financial abilities and generally because of their education ethic, which is highly commendable. A Parsi priest is called a Dastur and he functions in a similar sense as a rabbi, whose role is more geared towards the scholarship of religion than towards the actual preaching of it.

Another interesting facet, from a personal point of view, is that not only do I have a Parsi background, from my maternal side of the family, but one of my mother`s cousins married into a Christian family and as a result, I have both Parsi and Christian cousins. One of my cousins married into a Christian family, which had converted to Christainity from Hinduism after the partition. Hence, I have Muslim, Parsi, Christian and Hindu relatives, to which can be added the ``Jewish`` influence. I am really glad of this fact, because it has really taught me tolerance of other religions and a basic respect for humanity in general.

Thanks for sharing this really interesting article. If you are ever in Lahore, you have a standing offer of dhanshakh - Bombay style!

Ciao

Mr. Nazar,

I am amused to read the origins of Parsi and their primeval belief. Uptil now I only knew that they are called Parsi as they have migrated from Paras (Faris-Iran). And they worship the fire. Another attribute which could be a meager trait is that they knew the skill of converting Pathar (Stone) to Paras (Sona-Gold).
And also there style of celebrating Noroz which is a festival of welcoming spring and new year and the rains which is called (Aab-e-Naisa.n) in our inherited sect. This water is collected and given to patients with orthopedic ailments. Also two walnuts are put in water along with flowers. The walnuts keep on floating in zig zag directions and people gaze at them till they unite for few moments. At this very moment it is said that if prayed then wish will be granted. These ceremonies are purely enjoyable with joint family system where every elder religiously instructs the rites. Well apart from rituals of prayers this festival has a color every year given to it. And seven foods of that color are made and guests ate invited to have a DastarKhawan.
However living in a community unaware of these festivites has faded them in new generations, yet they remember the way their elders happily induldged in them.

Thanks for reminding,