Baloch Rights or Sardars’ Rights?

Before I had this run in with you, I thought you have some substance despite your army background. But you’re a typical pinhead paindoo.

You just keep putting foot in your mouth and in the process just proved my hypothetical situation right.

Ghaday you write, “Technically mutiny but no one in the Army thoght so (barring the naukari baaz chamchas who ran over to his house to congratulate him!).”

You accept that what corps commander did in Karachi in Oct 1999 was a mutiny and practically there was nobody to stop him as no one in the army thought that was a mutiny.
It proves that given a situation, the corps commander in Karachi can AGAIN mutiny and if the other officers in the army or even under his own command believe that the corps commander is right, they can ignore the legitimate COAS and may refuse to accept his orders.
The problem is that this treacherous army refuses to be under the civilian control and to follow the constitution.
what a bunch of horrible animals!

Are you really this stupid or just being deliberately obnoxious? I vote for stupidly obnoxious.

There is a difference between ``junior officers`` (btw, a Brigadier or a Major General is a ``junior officer`` as compared to a Corp Commander) and a JCO (Junior Commissioned Officer) in the army. Who do you think arrested Ziauddin and Nawaz Sharif`s Military Secretary (a Brigadier)? Pervez Musharraf himself? Or some Lt. Col. or Major sent out by the Commander 10 Corp?

``Legitimately appointed COAS?`` Technically, Ziauddin was ``legitimately appointed`` but as far as bulk of the Army was concerened, he wasn`t. Technically mutiny but no one in the Army thoght so (barring the naukari baaz chamchas who ran over to his house to congratulate him!). As far as removing Corp Commanders goes, Musharraf did just that with Lt. Gen. Tariq Pervez, Corp Commander Quetta, who was getting a little too big for his britches. I don`t recall Tariq Pervez ordering his troops to defy the COAS.

Anyway, trying to explain the facts of life to idiots is beginning to bore me and all correspondence on this topic will now cease. Remind me to add you to my ``ignore`` list.

#56 by fuzair

“upon orders from the COAS, his junior officers would arrest him and quickly ship him off to Attock Fort.”

I thought you were let go as JCO until I read this. It is obvious that either they bumped you in Kakul or you never made it to Kohat! You appear to be a groupie or the type of army junkies that are frequently found in some parts of Punjab.
The corps commander Karachi acted w/o informing the legitimately appointed COAS in Oct 1999 and you are so stupid that you are telling me that a JCO can strip a corps commander.
We are talking about an army that boasts of at least two COAS and many other senior Generals that can be legitimately hanged under the Pak constitution.
This bum is telling me that a JCO can strip a corps commander. I guess the COAS appointed by the legit government in October 1999, did not dare call any JCO in Karachi to stop the coup led by the Karachi Corps commander.
I wish you could buy something for the empty skull you carry over your shoulders.
What do you peddle in real life?
You are a canker. A sore that won`t go away.

Hypothetically speaking, what if some space aliens armed with phasers, force shields and photon torpedos decide to land in Karachi and take it over? What if they are renegades from Star Fleet who have gone bonkers? Who could stop them?

There are plausible hypotheticals and then there are stupid idiots like you. If you were really concerned about who would stop a ``bonkers`` corp commander, the answer is that, upon orders from the COAS, his junior officers would arrest him and quickly ship him off to Attock Fort. The 1999 case is not applicable to your hypothetical because no one in the Army (barring Ziauddin and the chootya MS to Nawaz Sharif) thought the action was against ``legitimate`` (i.e., what the Army considers legitimate) orders.

See, my use of ``creative fantasies`` show that I knew it was a ``hypothetical`` but it was still stupid. Now, go look up ``creative fantasy`` and see how that differs from a ``hypothetical.``

WHY don`t you get over having your stupidities pointed out and stick to writing something you know about? Assuming you know something after all, that is. I think I could spot you 50 IQ points and still beat you in a battle of wits, but its my policy never to fight the unarmed.

Bloody Civilians!

#53 by fuzair

Obviously, you lack the capacity to even understand what “Hypothetical” situation that I was referring to. The real situation is that the Corps commander Karachi pretty much owns Karachi. Is there a force in Karachi that can defy him?

We saw corps commander Karachi’s absolute powers when he took over the Karachi airport on Oct 12 1999, and he was even in the control tower on his own authority alone.
My hypothetical situation was if the corps commander Karachi goes “BONKERS” who would stop him.
When I referred to Army structure, I wrote Five “Main “corps. In my hypothetical situation, it did not matter how many corps the Army have.
That is the problem with many JCO former or current types, they absolutely cannot think straight and the level of education is so low that they can’t even think and discuss a hypothetical situation.
I recommend that you read my Post #30 twenty or more times until you get the point. Obviously, it takes a little hammering to get things in a thick former or current army head. There wasn’t much brain to start with and then the army destroyed what spaghetti was left there.
Btw, I will write whatever and whenever I want about the army. This is not some fkking officers’ mess here.
Get over it.

Romair:

There are fault lines within the Army. Have you never heard of the ``Janjua Net`` or the ``Pukh Pukh Net?`` As compared to the Civil, these are insignificant BUT they certainly do play a role in postings and desirable EREs, if not outright in promotions.

For JCOs/NCOs/ORs, the promotions within a unit are made on the basis of ethnicity if it is a mixed class unit, i.e., the senior most Pathan will get promoted or the senior most Sindhi will to keep the number of Pathan/Sindhi JCOs/NCOs even with the TOE. Same holds true for various Services within the Army. This does breed a certain amount of resentment as men with less service or worse service records get promoted over more meritorius candidates. Interestingly enough, the beneficiaries of this are almost always non-Punjabis since they are underrepresented in the Army!

As far as corruption goes, there is corruption at all levels within the Army. Its just that senior officers (multiple stars) get more opportunity for big time corruption. Have you ever seen what goes on in DGDP or DP(A)? Or the Air Force and Navy equivalents? In Local Purchase?

Back when I had closer contact with the Army, I recall a very interesting case where a couple of subalterns in Malir were running a dacoity ring out of their BOQs! I think they were all courtmartialled and sentenced to prison but I left before I found out what happened to them.

There are lots and lots of rotten eggs within the military BUT far fewer than in the Civil, most of whom are indeed ``bloody Civilians!``

Regards.

Re: HP #31 and other comments

IIRC, Pakistan has 9 corps:
I Corps (Mangla)
II Corps (Multan)
IV Corps (Lahore)
V Corps (Karachi)
X Corps (Rawalpindi)
XI Corps (Peshawar)
XII Corps (Quetta)
XXX Corps (Gujranwala)
XXXI Corps (Bahawalpur)

There are six infantry regiments (Punjab, Frontier Force, Baluch, Azad Kashmir, Sind and Northern Light Infantry) but these are purely administrative entities and have no operational responsibilities (other than to the extent of running their respective recruit training centers). I agree with Romair that your post indicated you know absolutely nothing at all about the Pakistan Army, its structure, or how it functions. The Corp Commander serves at the pleasure of the COAS and, in the past, many have been removed at a moment`s notice. Now, the COAS (except Zia in the last half of his rule who was absolute in the Army) is primus inter pares so easily outweighs any individual Corp Commander BUT it would be a very foolish COAS who would deliberately go against the Corp Commanders and Principal Staff Officers collectively. As far as I know, that has yet to happen but I am not privy to goings on at that level!

Might I suggest that in the future you refrain from talking about things you know nothing about? Or you at least run your creative fantasies by some one who knows how the Army functions?

Regards.

Ferozk:

Countries may not be exactly run and managed the way corporations do, but there are some lessons that can be learned from both successful and unsuccessful corporations. Having first hand experience with two of the organizations recognized for their managers, I would say that there were emotions involved when the lay of the land started taking a different shape - mergers and acquisitions. Wherever humans are involved, emotions will be part of the picture; but you cannot put logic and rationality on a back burner. They need to complement each other.

Re: # 46

Excellent post!

re: Zahra # 49

I will follow up on the reading, as you suggested and thanks for providing the link!

As to accountibility in IR, it is a good idea and it only happen when nations agree to allow themselves to be judged. I do not think that nations can be run like businesses, because some national issues are too emotional and refuse to be solved in a rational or a logical manner (for example, Kashmir and Palestine). It all boils down to a basic lack of trust and since each nation follows an egocentric set of policies, it very hard to hope for utopias in IR.

Ciao

Ferozk:

My intent was to introduce the concept of accountability. I understand the pros and cons of having a world council that takes over ultimately, in the event when a country displays gross negligence in running its affairs equitably. In order to give the ``negligent ones`` a chance, I thought of allowing the regions(neglected children) to return to their original source/parents only once. There are pros and cons in all scenarios and in all steps. Risks have to be taken to be anywhere; appropriate steps need to be introduced to mitigate those risks and so forth. If a strategy/model does not work then its ridiculous to keep on changing the players and not the chess board. That`s my way of seeing it. I am not saying that is the right approach or view but that`s a very valid perspective.

By the way, in today`s day and age the United States is playing that role in a less formal way. The difference is that the US is not taking over ``the neglected regions`` but is trying to assist them in getting rid of their internal oppressors. One cannot make a fair remark on how successful or unsuccessful that move is, till it is allowed enough time to prove itself. In general, Muslims do not need someone else to be their oppressor. An ideal example is how shias and sunnis are treating each other in Iraq. They can kill and bury each other alive without needing an outside power. It`s high time they realize the enemy within and not at the gates :)

If you get a chance, then do look into a Special Report on ``The Best and Worst Managers of the Year`` in the Business Week, Jan 10, 2005 Edition. Please read the strategies adopted by some of the visionary managers and the kind of risks they took to change the direction of their organizations. It`s an excellent issue. It highlights both the best and the worst managers and succinctly gives a reason or two behind the said designation. You can draw some parallels between the way organizations and countries are run.

Link: http://www.businessweek.com/magazine/content/05_02/b3915601.htm

Happy Reading.

CHOWK STAFF:

I second Tahmed on this!
I think bbabu’s Interact Index was downgraded, when the bug/glitch had downgraded tahmed and Hamidm etc. 2/3 weeks ago. I think chowk should look into that.
I don’t agree with tahmed in removing the filter altogether. Posts should be monitored for quality. It takes a little while to get the system going. People should show patience with the new system.

CHOWK STAFF: While your filters are great, please be careful in applying them. You keep cutting bbabu out when he is in fact one of the most intelligent posters who has never written anything that violates your guidelines. On the other hand, echoboom (who tries to stamp out any discussion - as he did quite effectively on another here yesterday) by writing his lengthy posts that start with abuse towards posters who do not subscribe to his hate-filled agenda.

EITHER KEEP AN EYE ON THE FILTERS, OR GET RID OF THEM.

re :Zahra # 41

I have a few comments on your idea.

First of all, the last thing the world needs is another multilateral international organization, with its own self-duplicating bureaucracy. The urgent need at the present time is not to create new international organizations but to reform the ones, which already exist and make them more useful. Also, it is not necessary that an international organization is the key to the worlds problems and even an international organization is not much help, when it comes to the domestic policy failures of individual nations. The idea of a ``foster-nation`` is fraught with so many political liabilities that given the arguments of sovereign power, no state will agree to such a proposal. The only other option is then to use force to seek adherence to such a suggestion and if force is not always practical, then this idea will be nothing more than a very good debating point in international forums.

International politics does not need any more utopian ideas and it will resist such an idea, because the nature of international politics is based on the notion of a ``managed anarchy`` in the world. Futhermore, the international politics have a very limited record of imposing a global paradigm on the domestic politics of a nation. Generally speaking, international politics has traditionally ignored bad domestic politics or dictatorships as long as they do not too drastically imbalance the sphere of international power equations.

Lastly, this idea of an international council is too close to the idea of world government and for this purpose alone, it is highly doubtful that it will get much support. Even if such a scheme is workable, it will require the overwhemling consensus of nations and that would be problematic to say the least. Consensus in international politics is not easy and even the EU, with nearly 50 plus years of a common governmental framework, is still finding itself disagreeing on policies, which involve the questions of sovereignity.

However, assuming this idea floats beyond the conceptual stage, the questions of implementation take on largely political overtones, when the issues in the nomination process of the ``foster-nations`` are considered. The criteria, which will judge the ``foster-nation`` will be purely political and realpolitik based, even though the intention might be humanistic and altrustic. Consequently, before this stage is even realized, there will be a need for sustained CBMs to engender a degree of mutual trust between the nations and a lack of trust might, for all reasons, abort this process.

It is not to suggest that this is a non-operable idea, but it will work only if nations are willing to give away some measure of their national sovereignity and are able to compromise and thus, create a consensual political environment.

Ciao

Zahra,

The conflict that you are talking about very much exists. Do the elite really have a crooked view or are they capable to change, depend on what kind of situation they get into. The elite in any society reluctantly changes positions as the situation demands but we cannot deny that they (the elite) do have a role. They will continue to make efforts to survive in the society with maximum privileges they can retain.

I would point out that in a tribal society like Balochistan, changes are often difficult to initiate until the Sardar, or the chief of the tribe buys into them. The non-representative nature of the central govt. in Pakistan has also increased its dependence on the Sardars.

In Balochistan, there are about 300 to 400 small to big Sardars. Not all Sardars have the same kind of influence and if you look at the Balochistan map and the areas, you will notice that the pace of progress in the areas where the small Sardars dominate is much higher than the areas under the big Sardars. The three Sardars that I had discussed did play a role in political progress and national rights struggle of Balochistan. Now, they have nothing more to offer to the Baloch and a new leadership may emerge after the present standoff.

It would be incorrect to assume that Balochistan has not made progress. The pace may be slow but looking at the logistical nightmare that Balochistan is there are not many percentages you can add to that pace. You can open as many educational institutions as you may want but nobody would come to them unless there is an incentive of prosperity after the education.
I certainly am not averse to the idea that areas can be let go and peoples’ welfare is more important than any state. In Balochistan case, I just don’t see how it will benefit from the separation.
Natural Gas supplies to Pakistan from the Balochistan areas are only 22% of the total consumption and in the next few years, this number would go down even further. I would not discount Iran-Pakistan Gas pipeline deal that may reduce Pakistan’s dependence on Balochistan even further.
The better solution is to force the federal government to increase the share of profit to Balochistan and that money is exclusively used for economic projects, Sardars opposition notwithstanding.

Your post # 41 is interesting. I recommend that you look at some of the new trends in Europe where the economic planners and the governments have begun to talk about creating pools to reduce poverty and provide help with healthcare issues in poor countries. In reality, international agencies and the UN along with the US have been taking a more active role in situations where local governments have begun to collapse under the pressure of providing food to the population.

yahyajamil #42

`` I do not know what you want to prove, but when you say set them free, free from what? Are they in some sort of bondage? What is rthe penalty that we have imposed on them? No one is denying that a grievious wrong has been committed and that needs to be reversed. The point is that you have in-hospitable areas in all countries and and not necessarily be able to develop them. Even India has them, the USA (Alaska) has them, Russia has loads of them. Does that mean that it is offensive to refer to these areas as inhospitable. Does it mean that if you cannot develop all inhospitable areas you should hand them over to another country, that already has enough of them. Look at it rationally and you will realise that no country has enough resources to develop all its areas equitably. ``

Areas of India that have not seen an equitable share of development are not stable. North East India is a good example. There are plenty of militant spearatist movements.

Alaskans enjoy a great standard of living. They are happy with US govt. Russia is not a great example since they are in transistion from a communist regime to a more market oriented economy.

If Pakistani government cannot develop Baluchistan without Baluchis getting a fair share of the benefits of development I hate to say this -- Baluchistan is heading for prolonged unrest and possibly a separatist movement.

Pakistani military is going to have to surrender control over resources to other power centers. The more they delay it the more painful the end result will be.

HP,

Your analogy to Sindh is appropriate. However, large scale affirmative action in Bhutto senior`s time helped develop a Sindhi middle class quickly, something that might have to be repeated in Baluchistan.

Re: # 40
``If you cannot take care of your regions and have little or no interest in them then you should not penalize them. Set them free.``
Zahra,
I do not know what you want to prove, but when you say set them free, free from what? Are they in some sort of bondage? What is rthe penalty that we have imposed on them? No one is denying that a grievious wrong has been committed and that needs to be reversed. The point is that you have in-hospitable areas in all countries and and not necessarily be able to develop them. Even India has them, the USA (Alaska) has them, Russia has loads of them. Does that mean that it is offensive to refer to these areas as inhospitable. Does it mean that if you cannot develop all inhospitable areas you should hand them over to another country, that already has enough of them. Look at it rationally and you will realise that no country has enough resources to develop all its areas equitably.

On 2nd thoughts, there should be an international council, with a focus on how all countries on Earth (and not on Mars) manage their regions and territories. Each country should be given the basics that they should follow. If they go above and beyond then that`s well and good and they should be graded accordingly. If they do not then the underprivileged areas should be taken away and put in a category which requires assistance in further development. The neigboring country should be the 1st one to be considered as a foster parent. If that does not work out then the region should be allowed only once to go back to its original parents. After that the International Council should take over.

My two cents.

Yahya:

[My point is that even after we reverse the wrong by undertaking massive development both in terms of mega projects and of direct benefit to the people (like roads, hospitals, schools, improved social sevices etc) the bulk of the landscape will remain the same as over 60 percent of the area of Balochistan is virtually uninhabitable. ]

Then, set them free! Let them have their own separate land.

If the government is not willing to develop that land and treat them equitably then why make their lives miserable. Why are you keeping an inhospitable land under your wings?

Why not go after Dul Lake? There will be some tourism related revenue there. In addition to that, the area can be/is considered as ``Asian Switzerland``.

Isn`t it foolish to let go of the Asian Switzerland and concentrate on an ``inhospitable land ... ``the dump where Allah shot the rubbish of creation`` ?

If you cannot take care of your regions and have little or no interest in them then you should not penalize them. Set them free.

HP: I looked into the reference you had provided at the end of the article. And, I understand that you used the opening remarks as a quote from another article/reference. I am clear that you were not the writer of the 1st three statements. No arguments there. Whoever said those remarks did not think through the whole context. That`s my point.

To your point, if people can be taught something then they can also get out of it and learn something new. There is another significant element to consider here. People only discard those teachings which have not proven to be of much value to them . In other words, they discard what they never truly bought into. How does that happen? On its own? Or some external elements kick in to create awareness? Or they expand their horizons? In order to do the last few types they have to have the basic education to differentiate.

Since you had focused on the nuances of Sardars vs. Baluchs, therefore I was only referring to them - mostly the Sardars. What I understood from the overview was that one group holds a crooked outlook and the other has very little/no entitlement to nurture an outlook. My point was that those with a crooked outlook are not going to change. Will they? Have they? If I am wrong here then I should not be blamed. I followed the horrific picture you have drawn of the Sardars to come to this conclusion :)

Somehow, I think that you also addressed a few elements in this article that were not well addressed in the SUI Episode - mainly around the difference between the baluchs and the sardars. I did not see any similarities except for one being a subset of the other.

Thanks.

re: HP

Thanks for the feed back on BLA. I am bit skeptical about the involvment of intelligence in the Baluch insurgency. I have my own set of assumptions on the situation in Baluchistan. The suggestion of an intelligence involvement is plausible, but it cannot be the sole reason for the political ferment in the province.

Ciao

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HP #34: I`ll see if get some time to write one. It would have to be quite long. It is difficult to summarize it.

I will give you the basic gist of why the Army has dominated all other institutions. It has nothing to do with guns. It has a lot to do with the internal weaknesses of the other institutions, and their infighting. This includes political parties, judiciary, etc.

The military internally is a large meritocracy. It must be the largest one in Pakistan. It is internally extremely egalitarian also. It is difficult to tell the difference between the son of a sweeper and the son of a millionaire when they are in their unit. And the son of the sweeper has an equal chance of moving up, as the son of Zafarullah Jamali and Musharraf.

It is also internally very united. There are next to none (in fact none) fault lines along ethnicities, religion, secularism etc. Only one`s rank counts. And it is very cohesive at the higher ranks. Despite their best efforts, political leaders have not been able to divide the Army high command. They have divided the judiciary, but not the Army.

In addition, it has very strong traditions, which are next to impossible to break. Zia Islamized Pakistan, but he was unable to Islamize the Army. All the COAS after him, were non-maulvis. When someone is made the COAS, all other competitors for the job, as per military tradition, quietly resign. They don`t try to bring the new COAS down, or wash their dirty laundry outdoors.

On the whole, it is internally quite uncorrupt. I never had to indulge in corruption to get anything done. Corruption in the military, both legalized and illegal, starts at very senior ranks. Unlike the civil service, where it exists at all ranks.

Due to this, if you ever notice, you will see that the poor enlisted sepoy has a strong loyalty with his unit, his commmander and with the general commanding him. And vice-versa. This is very genuine. They all respect each other and rarely, if ever, overstep their bounds toward each other. This is quite different from say the civilian, ``awam`` of Pakistan. It has no respect nor loyalty towards its political leaders. And vice-versa.

Infact, internally the military is very efficiently run, with little wastage, nepotism etc. Even though most of the professionals in the military are paid much lower salaries than their civilian counterparts...........

But most of all, the military now, specifically the Army, has a very middle class base amongst its officers. Due to which it has a lot of popularity amongst the middle class civilians (the non-Chowk crowd) of Pakistan. Taxi-drivers, panwallas, etc. who have sons and nephews in it, and consider it a status symbol. Alongwith the MQM, and Jamaat-i-Islami it is the only organization in which a poor man can make it to the top in Pakistan........

Etc. etc. Organizaitons that are internally cohesive will always dominate organizations that are internally disorganized and corrupt, in doing both good and bad..................If the PPP etc. want to dominate the Army, they need to internally reorganize and re-institutionalize themselves. This can be done with or without a democracy in Pakistan....The need to get the awam`s respect, much like the sepoys respect their commanders in the military.......And a son of a sweeper should be able to become the Chairperson of PPP just like he can become the Chief of the Army Staff.........

Re: # 32
ZahraJ,
``But I would like to revist the opening remark, ``inhospitable land`` ?

I disagree with this remark.
I also find the analogy simply ridiculous. ``

The province is so vast (imagine less than 5 percent of the population of Pakistan living in 48 percent of the area and that too concentrated around few towns/cities). I find the analogy to mars purely in physical terms appropriate. You can travel for hours and hours and yet not come across a single soul leave alone a settlement. The landscape in Makran especially between Gwadar and Jiwani is stark and resembles moon or mars (no exaggeration). My point is that even after we reverse the wrong by undertaking massive development both in terms of mega projects and of direct benefit to the people (like roads, hospitals, schools, improved social sevices etc) the bulk of the landscape will remain the same as over 60 percent of the area of Balochistan is virtually uninhabitable.

``Again, the issue is with the people and not necessarily wioth the institutions. If the institutions have wrong policies and procedures then that is one thing. They can be revisited. But if the people have upside down thought process and malicious mindset for whatever reason, that cannot be fixed. They are who they are.``

Are you referring to the decision makers or the people of Balochistan? My apologies if I appear thick.

Zehra,

As a young student, I traveled to Balochistan to help a family friend in an election campaign, a couple of years later I drove in a rickety Willis jeep from Karachi to Gwadar in the middle of summer. At that time, the present Coastal Highway was nothing more than a dirt road where often you could not drive more than 20 miles an hour.
When I read that quote, I felt that it correctly described my feelings about Balochistan. Balochistan at that time had unbelievably harsh environments.
I don’t blame Baloch for being so strong willed and often hard headed. The environments make life difficult for them. I have heard that things have changed considerably since. Asphalt roads now go right into the heart of Balochistan into Punjgur and Kharan and the newer SUV’s have taken over the old Willis Jeeps.
I agree with you on the words that you pointed out. I guess over the years, I have become too cynical to miss the finer details that you picked up so diligently. I should have removed the reference from the quote.

What I don’t agree with you on when you say, “But if the people have upside down thought process and malicious mindset for whatever reason, that cannot be fixed. They are who they are.”
That, I am afraid, goes against the human nature. People learn what they are taught and they can also unlearn things that they were always taught. That is what we learned in the 20th century, when a whole group of people was indoctrinated against the basic and common Christian beliefs they held for centuries, in a very short span of time.

If you are following the Zia’s children board, you will notice how indoctrination in Pakistan at that time affected peoples’ lives and the thought process. That kind of hypocrisy could not have gone on forever and I think things have begun to change in Pakistan after a long period of suffocation.

Romair,
you did not pick up what I was implying in a hypothectical situation. Anyway, we will discuss that when you write the article about the army.

Re: # 31
`You maybe confusing corps with regiments. Corps are self-sufficient fighting group. Regiments are a personnel organization structure. Pakistan Army has nine corps plus Northern Area Command and Aviation Corps. They are numbered with Roman NumeralsL I, IV XXXI etc. They are headquartered in Pindi, Mangla, Pannu Aqil, Lahore, Karachi, Peshawar, Quetta, Multan and Gurjranwala. `

There is no Corps Headquarter in Panu Aqil. But you are right about the command culture of the Pakistan Army. Notwithstanding its justified/unjustified forays in politics, it remains a disciplined organistion. If you look at the history of military interventions in Pakistan, the decision to intervene has always been made by the Army Chief. The few atempts at lower level never went beyond the planning stage.

HP

I am glad you took the time and effort to share some nuances of the Baluch/Sardar culture after reading the SUI Episode on Chowk. This article helps in clarifying many unspoken facts. The masses did not buy into the ideology that was imposed on them. In addition to that, behind every system there is an element that contributes to its strength or its failure. In this case, the failure is caused by inequitable treatment of the provinces. And as a result it trickles down to the masses. Again, the issue is with the people and not necessarily wioth the institutions. If the institutions have wrong policies and procedures then that is one thing. They can be revisited. But if the people have upside down thought process and malicious mindset for whatever reason, that cannot be fixed. They are who they are.

But I would like to revist the opening remark, ``inhospitable land`` ?

I disagree with this remark.
I also find the analogy simply ridiculous.

The current and past governments have never showed any interest in developing the ``inhospitable land``. There has always been more focus on Kashmir(capturing the ``Dul Lake``) and consuming hasheesh from across the border than caring to develop Baluchistan and other areas of Pakistan requiring attention. To add fuel to the fire, enough energy, resources and efforts have been expended on religious endeavors that have not added an ounce to the social fabric of the masses. Had Punjab or Sindh been left unattended then the masses would have faced similar consequences. The opening remark was a poorly thought out statement.

HP #30: ``I hope this would get Romair rolling!``

If your comments were a joke, then no. Otherwise, yes :)

I am assuming you were joking about the structure of the Army. If you weren`t then, you are ruining whatever acknowledgement you are getting about your knowledge of Sind and Baluchistan, with your ill-informed thesis on the Army.

One should stick with one`s expertise.

If I get some time, I will write a article about how the military functions, and why it is able to dominate the civil society, including political parties. Having seen both sides of the picture, from the inside, in quite a bit of detail, I think I have a pretty good idea. One point I would like to make is that no one in the military understands the civilians. And no one amongst civilians understands the military; specifically those on this site. That I am convinced of.......I myself had so many biases about the civilian side of Pakistan, when I was in the military. And am amazed to see similar biases on the civilian side. Conspiracy theories galore!!!

Assuming you werent` joking, here are some corrections:

``Pakistan army has five main corps. They are in Sindh, Punjab, Balochistan, Frontier, and Mangla (actually Kashmir corps)``

You maybe confusing corps with regiments. Corps are self-sufficient fighting group. Regiments are a personnel organization structure. Pakistan Army has nine corps plus Northern Area Command and Aviation Corps. They are numbered with Roman NumeralsL I, IV XXXI etc. They are headquartered in Pindi, Mangla, Pannu Aqil, Lahore, Karachi, Peshawar, Quetta, Multan and Gurjranwala.

``The corps commander in Karachi has full control over the army in Sindh. He also can force the air force and the navy in Karachi to follow his orders.``

This is obviously not true. Is Pannu Aqil in Sind? The corp commander in any city cannot simply declare independence. How in the world will he do that? What about all the poeple under him? All those officers are only stationed under him for a few months to years. What about finances. His salaries and budget come from GHQ. He has authority over the corps, completely, once it is ordered into war........

Also, the Army corps commanders has no authority over he PAF and Navy. They follow their own chain of command. Why in the world would the PAF and Navy Generals listen to him?

``say all four commanders in Karachi, Lahore, Quetta and Peshawar decide to separate from Pakistan``

:). This is too funny to comment on. What about the other five, ``commanders`` commanding the other corps?

HisExcellency #24

“In the longer run, this is dangerous for Pakistan since Balochistan forms 48% of Pakistan`s land mass.”

HE,
Why is it dangerous for Pakistan? The reality is that is the exact line the army uses to destroy opposition. I never buy this fear mongering by the army for the simple reason that I consider every political and economic demand and struggle in Pak to take Pakistan towards democracy, away from the military dictatorship no matter how benign that dictatorship may be.
This really requires another article but here is my take on what is behind the ‘destruction of Pakistan” line.
Now Manto would not be happy to read this but the reality is that Pakistan has artificial borders. This creates a built in fear in the middleclass and the bureaucracy’s mind that somehow, these borders could be redrawn by some internal struggle or any forceful opposition to the center would result in the breakup of Pakistan. This is now a double whammy after the army went down in the East Pakistan and still blamed Bengalis, India, Bhutto, and what not for its failure.
The problems that Pakistan has are pretty common in many third world countries. Let me point you to first India and then Sri Lanka to find parallels in the situation. India has several problems from Kashmir to Assam and from Naga to sometimes Tamil to name just a few. The Indian government uses several methods to deal with these issues but nobody ever hears that these problems would lead to break up of India. Sri Lanka is also dealing with an insurgency for a long time now, what are the odds that it will break up?

Now here is my theory! Put your thinking hat on :)

Pakistan army has five main corps. They are in Sindh, Punjab, Balochistan, Frontier, and Mangla (actually Kashmir corps)
Four corps commanders sit in Karachi, Lahore, Quetta and Peshawar. (Mangla HQ Pindi)
The corps commander in Karachi has full control over the army in Sindh. He also can force the air force and the navy in Karachi to follow his orders.
Now this hypothetical situation: If the corps commander in Karachi decides to go bonkers and announces independence for Karachi, is there any force in Pakistan to stop him from doing that right away?
Take it even further; say all four commanders in Karachi, Lahore, Quetta and Peshawar decide to separate from Pakistan, what force Islamabad would have left to stop them from doing that?
So what is more dangerous for Pakistan, the stupidly designed army structure or the political dissent?

(I hope this would get Romair rolling!)

Thanks temporal!
I was writing a response to Feroz’s post when I saw your post. I scratched my detailed response and would draw on the report by TFT to answer Feroz’s question.

Feroz! On reading this report, you should have a fair idea now who is behind the BLA.

“The interior ministry’s report, however, gives no expenditures for the working of various intelligence agencies that operate in the province.”
”During one of the meetings of the Committee when Secretary Defence Hamid Nawaz was trying to explain to the members the working of the army and intelligence agencies in the province, senators from Balochistan lashed out and accused these agencies of fuelling the insurgency in the province by adopting wrong methods and targeting the politicians.

”However, the defence secretary strongly defended the role of the ISI and MI in the province when the senators criticised their activities.”

The first instinct in the Pak admin and even in India is to follow the British model where every dissent is anti state. So what the government agencies do, they penetrate the dissenting group or create quasi groups that attempt to demonize the legal demands of the dissenting group.
Pakistan agencies are past masters in this game. From the Taliban to the Jihadi outfits in Kashmir all had some sponsorship from Pakistan agencies, popularly lumped under ISI. Every political party or group has some members that report to some agency. Politicians call them “Agency walla,” “Darhi wala” or simply “the beard” or “Darhi” Some of these agents may not grow darhi still that is the word for them.

Pres. Musharraf announced military bases in Balochistan, I think, about a year and half ago. Since then dissent in Balochistan has emerged. The Baloch have precarious relations with the Pak army and they would prefer that the army not live next door to them. That is why the army always used the FC cover to stay in Balochistan.
One way to overcome this dissent is to work with the Baloch and sell them the idea and the other and administrative way is to force it on the Baloch. The first option is time consuming and the bases are time sensitive. The army wants to force it; it is creating conditions where it could claim that the law and order situation is so bad in the province that the army’s presence is necessary. With the BLA, and many other groups with questionable political and destructive activities, the army now has the option to raise the terrorist bogey to enter Balochistan.
As I have already said, Sardar Bugti is also creating conditions that would sideline the Baloch demands and the army would just succeed in putting the bases in Balochistan.

Nasah,
The Gawadr port is near completion, so are the US plans about Iran. We may be looking at the Kuwait of 2003 or the Saudi Arabia of 1991.

Read the last Para from my article above.
“The proud and militaristic Baloch are in for difficult times. The leadership that held them together on nationalist rights has now become too entrenched with its own interests and monetary gains. The chapter of final deception by the Baloch Sardars is about to be written and the poor Baloch, .... are in for a surprise that may change Balochistan for good.”

HP:

TFT does not arhive..hence with reluctance i will paste the entire article here...rauf klasra needs no intro:

priorities in Balochistan

M R Klasra

As the situation in Balochistan continues to simmer, with Baloch sardars threatening to take their defiance of Islamabad to a higher level, two official reports put out by the ministries of interior and finance separately provide some indication of the federal government’s priorities in dealing with the province.

The first report by the interior ministry shows that the federal government has spent a sum of Rs 12 billion on the 31,000-strong Frontier Corps in the province since 2001. The paramilitary FC, controlled by the federal government, is meant to cover Area B of the province not under the control of the police. Area B constitutes 95 percent of the Balochistan.

On the other hand, a finance ministry report says that during the same period, the federal government gave Balochistan Rs10 billion in gas royalties, a sum of Rs2 billion each

year. TFT is in possession of both the reports.

The interior ministry’s report, however, gives no expenditures for the working of various intelligence agencies that operate in the province. However, as one source in Islamabad told TFT, “one can guess the expenses of the intelligence agencies by the amount Islamabad has spent on FC”.

Ironically, one of the demands made by the Baloch leaders is to get Islamabad to increase gas royalties by another Rs 2 billion, a demand that the federal government has been resisting so far. The Sixth Finance Commission Award, a constitutional requirement, has also not been met as yet since the formula worked out by the finance ministry under former finance minister and current Prime Minister Shaukat Aziz has been rejected by the smaller provinces, including Balochistan.

Despite several rounds of talks in 2003-4, the finance ministry could not get the three smaller federating units to accept the formula which Sindh, Balochistan and the NWFP rejected as favouring the Punjab. Even personal interventions by then-prime minister Zafarullah Khan Jamali and General Pervez Musharraf failed to resolve the issue. The Award still awaits finalisation.

The interior ministry report gives the break up of the expenditure as follows: the federal government spent Rs 1.9 billion, Rs 2 billion, Rs 2.3 billion, Rs 2.4 billion and Rs 2.6 billion in the period 2001 through 2004-5 on FC. The break-up also shows the expenditure has constantly risen through the said period.

The report also gives the deployment of FC troops. While 2752 troops are deployed to the Mekran division, 28808 are operating in the rest of the province. Critics question the spending by pointing out that despite such expenditure, FC has not been able to control the law and order situation in the province. “Not only has the force failed, its indirect cost is the image it has developed in the province. The Baloch look at it as an occupation army,” says an analyst who has long dealt with the politics of Balochistan.

The highhandedness of FC troops also came to light when, during a briefing to the parliamentary committee on Balochistan, Inspector-General FC (Balochistan), Major-General Shujaat Hussain Dar, admitted that his troops had exceeded their brief in certain cases. He also sought an apology from the people of the province in the same meeting held in Quetta recently in a bid to lessen the pain of the aggrieved people.

“There are many issues here, one being an obvious comparison between how much Islamabad is spending on FC and what it is giving the province in gas royalty,” said an analyst. “Why can it not increase the royalty when that is more likely to defuse the situation than spending on FC?”

Sources privy to the meetings of the parliamentary committee on Balochistan say the members have a fair idea of how FC personnel generally behave and what needs to be done to improve the situation. “They have recorded statements of people about the conduct of FC troops and there is clear need on the basis of that information to recommend a revamping of the brief of the force and its conduct,” says an insider.

During one of the meetings of the Committee when Secretary Defence Hamid Nawaz was trying to explain to the members the working of the army and intelligence agencies in the province, senators from Balochistan lashed out and accused these agencies of fuelling the insurgency in the province by adopting wrong methods and targeting the politicians.

However, the defence secretary strongly defended the role of the ISI and MI in the province when the senators criticised their activities. Briefing the participants, the secretary revealed that the ISI and MI were meant to counter hostile foreign intelligence agencies working in the province. In addition, they are meant to check cross-border smuggling and acts of terrorism, besides pre-empting and curbing religious extremism.

The defence secretary strongly denied the accusations that any of these agencies was involved in hounding the politicians as claimed by the Baloch politicians. He told the meeting that the agencies do not decide their activities but work according to the directions of the government of the day.

On increasing recruitment in the army from the province, the defence secretary told the meeting that the federal government was sparing no efforts to attract the Baloch to join the forces. He also referred to mobile army recruiting teams and the establishment of an ISSB (Inter-Services Selection Board) centre in Quetta.

“The army does seem to be working hard enough to improve its image in the province,” says a source, “But there are too many political issues involved here and the government needs to take a multi-pronged approach to win over the Baloch. It is going to be difficult but is not impossible, especially if Islamabad begins to get its priorities right.”

re: HP

Since you seem knowledgeable about the issues in Baluchistan, can you shed some light on the origins and politics of the BLA, which is claiming the destruction of pipelines et al in Baluchistan.

My question is: who is financially supporting the BLA?

Ciao

Interesting article. Gwadur, which was historically a key link between the subcontinent and the middle east and africa, promises to re-emerge. I understand that until 1958 it was a possession of the sultanate of oman - I am not sure what its legal status was with Pakistan before that.

Re: # 24
Why can`t Musharraf spend half that amount of money on building just 2 or 3 universities in Baluchistan where Balochis can get vocational training as well as professional education (e.g. MBA, MCS, etc)? The private sector is unwilling (or unable) to step forward in Baluchistan


The problem is not only universities, it is the opportunities available. You have an Engineering College/University in Khuzdar, but what is the job potential? Even in big towns of Panjab, like Okara, Sahiwal etc, there are virtually no jobs for MBAs or Computer Science graduates. Any job potential in this area is confined to Karachi and Lahore and to an extent in Pindi/Islamabad and Peshawar and a very limited potential in Quetta. The pressure therefore mounts on Karachi and Lahore, where the locals grab the available jobs. The problem is more of opportunities and development that creates opportunities. Even now that the mega projects have created jobs in Balochistan, there exists a huge gap in opprtunities that are available to youths in Balochistan and to those in rest of the country.
50 years of following a policy of compromises and neglect cannot be undone overnight. We had an opportunity from 1977 onwards, when we could have totally neutralised the Sardars by making the system reach the common man. Although many will say that systems do not exist in Pakistan, but many systems do work. Our system stopped at the Sardar, whereas we had promised the common Baloch a life free from domination of Sardar when Bhutto announced the end to Sardari system. The Govt failed to provide a workable alternative. Posting Deputy Commissioners and Assistant Commissioners was the Govt`s response to an area where population of a district was spread over hundreds of miles, with hardly any roads, no means of public transport and a harsh enviornment. In the Sardari system, though the common man was neglected development wise but he had his issues decided. Baloch being warring tribes where virtually every tribe, sub tribe had issues that needed resolution. The Sardars did provide that through their system. The Govt not only failed to provide an alternative to this but also failed to ensure a massive injection of funds to develop the Province. The released Baloch Sardars capitalised on this Govt neglect and continued to control the lives of the common man in their tribe. Despite an official end to the Sardari system, it has a de-facto existence.
Barring the Pashtoon dominated North Balochistan, the Balochi and Brohi belts are a picture of neglect, when you comapre them with similar areas of other provinces (Thar in Sindh, perhaps comparing with Balochistan). We should have introduced system that took into account the administraive difficulties emnating from the peculiar environment in the Province.
In 1977, when General Zia announced a general ammenesty and the `hostiles` (the terminology given to those Baloch who had taken up arms against the Central Govt) surrenederd, I recolllect a local Baloch of Wadh (hometown of AtaUllah Mengal) who had sided with the Govt as interpreter and guide saying, ` I hope you will not leave us now at the mercy of Sardars`. We did exactly that and are paying for it.

re: HP

What an excellent article!

I think the Balochi people are being short-changed by everyone here. The Bugtis, Mengals, Marris, Altaf Hussains and Musharrafs of Pakistan each have their own interests to satisfy. The Balochi people have become victims of their own illiteracy, sardari system and lack of political organization.

In the longer run, this is dangerous for Pakistan since Balochistan forms 48% of Pakistan`s land mass. It is in the interest of federal govt to ensure the inclusion of Balochis into federal institutions as well as provincial projects.

In 1992, Nawaz Sharif poured millions of ruppees from the exchequer in building a motorway between Islamabad and Lahore. Many people believe that this was a waste of money, especially since a Lahore-Faisalabad motorway would have served traders, businessmen and industrialists better.

Why can`t Musharraf spend half that amount of money on building just 2 or 3 universities in Baluchistan where Balochis can get vocational training as well as professional education (e.g. MBA, MCS, etc)? The private sector is unwilling (or unable) to step forward in Baluchistan. This only leaves room for government to fill the education gap.

Secondly, if there can be a quota system in Sindh to distribute government posts and college admissions between Urdu-speaking community and Sindhis... why can`t we have a similar quota system in Balochistan??

HP -- great piece -- painstakingly balanced -- an ocean of objective dispassionate analyses of complex political, geographic, social and cultural under currents -- described in a succint well organized easy reading with masterly economy of words......

......one of the best piece of writings I have encountered on Chowk....got educated.....

now HP can you tell us where the current impasse in Balochistan is headed........?

#15 Romair,

There are differences in conspiracy theories and political assumptions. Political assumptions are based on understanding of politicians and political parties; their known stand, their political statements, political alliances and on what they represent.
When I say that Sardar Bugti is batting for the Army, I have some historical data to believe that my assumptions about him are correct. I just gave one example believing that people would pick that up looking at the historical data that I provided in the article about Sardar Bugti.
Why would a serious politician, who is talking about national and political rights for his people, and is in some sort of armed resistance with the central government, diverts the whole issue to a rape case that has no political bearing at all?
His shenanigans took the attention away from the political and economic issues to an issue that is criminal in nature.

What would Baloch accomplish, if the army officer is arrested and placed in Jail?

Therefore, when I looked at it, I assumed that he is building a storm in the teacup to find a way to accomplish something different from the Baloch rights. Hence, my contention that he is creating a situation that would allow the army the excuse to walk in the Baloch areas to set up permanent bases.

Politicians act the same way all over the world. We had a person here screaming all over the place about WMDs to find a justification do something he had decided to do anyway!

Btw, you don’t have to be in the army to analyze the army. I was not with Napoleon but I know why he lost in Moscow!

Thanks Faruk, Temporal, Urstruly, Rahulmal, snake and feroz.

Ali,

Extremist are not just religious fanatics but in seemingly secular politics extremist come up with demands that are totally out of the whack. News media everywhere in the world thrives on sensationalism. Controversy and controversial statements would always make the headlines. When some people say things that you mentioned, they are just seeking some name recognition and they know that media would pick up their statement rather than some sane voices.
People from other provinces would come to take up the jobs in Balochistan for the simple reason that there are not enough qualified Baloch to fill up all the jobs.
Who do you blamed for this? You can look around and find the answer yourself. Balochistan needs more schools, colleges, and lots of technical training to prepare people for the jobs.
In Sindh, we have gone thru this process. There were jobs in Sindh that went to the outsiders and there was plenty of commotion until Sindhi realized that the only way to get these jobs back is to go for some college and technical education.
I doubt that Baloch will turn into a minority in Balochistan. My feeling is that people with education would move into Balochistan and inspire Baloch to get out of the rut.

If the army kills Sardar Bugti, then we may see some disturbances but chances of that happening are Zilch! He is the Pir Pagara of Balochistan!

I read this somewhere and you can enjoy it too.
“In 1975 renowned bohemian poet Habib Jalib paid a visit to Balochistan and was invited by Nawab Bugti for lunch or dinner. Jalib said on the occasion, “Sun bhaee Akbar Bugti, yeh jamhoori tehrik ab nahin rukti”, and contemptuously turned down the invitation.”

His rival tribe the kalpar Bugtis, have killed Akber Bugti’s two sons- Salim and Talat- already. Akber Bugti is so afraid for his life that he has not left Dera Bugti in the last couple of years now.

H P,
thank you for by far the most informative article on balochistan that i`ve seen yet! most tend to ignore the complexities.

HP,

Of the 5 or so articles on Baluchistan that have appeared on chowk, this one is definitely the best. And I like and trust your opinions on Pakistani politics in general...... so a couple of questions for you:

- Baluchs fear (correctly) that they will turn into a minority in Baluchistan. How can GOP allay their fears?

- Baluchs (or at least their Sardars) demand that people who migrate as a result of development should not have voting rights in Baluchistan. They should rather vote in their provinces of origin. Do think this is feasible? or desirable?

- Finally, do you think ordinary Bugtis will really care (or protest) if Akbar Bugti is killed a. la. Nek Mohammed and the Sui gas royalty aka bribe that goes to his pocket gets distributed to them directly or to a new Sardar who is more willing to share the money?

HP,
A very nice, balanced and informative article!

Regards,

HP

Good effort and very informative. Will share your board soon, for now I am trying to calm myself down from my indignation for fauj and its underlings.

HP:

welcome:)

rgds,

t

ps: am not commenting on this because my predicitible comment will mention the root cause as the occupation;)

Interesting article. Quite balanced, also. Though too many grammatical errors. You should write more, since you seem to be quite well-informed about Sind and Baluchistan. Two places, which probably very few people in Chowk have ever visited.

“Sardar Bugti has a history of relationship with the army and I think he is batting for the army so that the Army can place bases in the heart of Balochistan and Sardar Bugti can still save face.”

I think you are relying on conspiracy theories here. This is something I have never been able to understand. The more I read people’s views about the military, the more I am beginning to realize how misinformed people are about the army-civilian relationship in Pakistan. I have yet to read a single analysis on Chowk, which actually shows any kind of comprehension of this issue.

The Army is the most powerful institution in Pakistan. No doubt about it. It can basically take over the country any time it wants. Karamat could have kicked out Nawaz, had he wanted to. However, why exactly is it so powerful? Is it because it has all the guns, or is it because it is internally a strong institution? And what do the civilian leaders need to do to counter than power? And why have they been unable to get the public to follow them against the Generals (specifically against the current one)?

The reason this doesn’t get analyzed well, is probably because there aren’t too many people who have the combined civilian/military experience and/or minimal biases pro and against military and civilians, to do an objective analysis…………

Brilliant article...

Will amend the following slightly for accuracy...

``Before the 1956 One Unit, he had already started guiding the Baloch Sardars to the Azad Pakistan party and then its successors, National Awami Party. These parties consisted of remnants of the Indian National Congress cadre in Pakistan.``

Azad Pakistan Party was formed by Mian Iftikharuddin, who had been part of the Muslim League and close to Jinnah. So the remnants of INC and leftists within the Pakistan Movement, forgot their previous differences, to work together for a Progressive liberal Pakistan.... I came across some very interesting statements by Abdul Ghaffar Khan, the erstwhile Pathan Leader, in that first year.... especially when he made the ``All Pakistan Peoples` Party`` ... after pledging support and loyalty to Pakistan in his letter addressed to ``My Dear Quaid-e-Azam``...

How different Pakistan would have been, had Jinnah been allowed to incorporate Ghaffar Khan in his grand strategy in Pakistan... especially when he was painfuly aware of the presence of ``counterfeit coins``.... That plan was also sabotaged by a remnant of the Indian National Congress... the other famous Khan from NWFP, Abdul Qayoom Khan, who had switched from the Congress Party a year and a half before the creation of Pakistan.

-YLH

re: HP

Brillant! A very concise article on a very perplexing problem confrontating Pakistan. Bravo!

Ciao

Funny how we haven`t seen the usual paki-platitudes about freedom movements and rights of muslims. Instead we see some lame excuses about the sardars being at fault..

Let`s not forget, as the author points out, Balochistan was forcibly annexed into Pakistan...

Cat got your Islamist tongue now?

#3 Godot,
Most of the third world countries are grappling with ethnic, religious, or communal issues within their boundaries. Actually very few countries have taken the next step.
The issue in Pakistan is not ethnic but the distribution of resources and that too is a complex issue because there are just not enough resources to equitably distribute and make everybody happy. When people have to fight for a plate that is not even full to begin with, mighty would usually succeed in taking hold of whatever is in there.
In Pakistan, the army makes it even difficult to create conditions for a civil discourse to resolve issues.
The army uses a single method for issues resolution.

#2 bbabu
They are paid millions of Rupees not dollars because there are agreements in place. It is not a charity.
The struggle in Balochistan is for the national, economic, and political rights. First, Sardar Bugti mixes that up with his royalty issue, and when people begin to wake up to it, he links the whole issue with a rape!
Now Rape is a heinous crime but it is not a political issue at all. It has no relevance whatsoever with the struggle for Baloch rights. He further goes on to state that no negotiations with the center are possible until the rape issue is resolved! What kind of demagoguery is that? A smokescreen may be. The reality gap is just startling.

Sardar Bugti has a history of relationship with the army and I think he is batting for the army so that the Army can place bases in the heart of Balochistan and Sardar Bugti can still save face.
The army in Pakistan has long arms and iron fingers at the end. No politician would take on the army until he has all the aces in his hands. Sardar Bugti is a hyena and he would never play blind. He had never gone against the army in the last 35 years; there is no reason to assume that he would do that now. He is cooking up the soup that Baloch will have to eat.


nasah,
Republic of Balochistan is a non starter. Nobody has that ambition.

HP,

Thanks for an informative article! I must add that it was written very professionally, hope to read more from you.

like grand father like grand son -- like his Buzurg grandpa Yahya Khan -- Musharraf Khan is embarked upon DONATING -- ANOTHER ONE of Pakistan provinces -- to the United Nations -- as yet another independent Republic of Balochidesh.....subhanallah

HisExcellency #7

`` In an interview given to Herald magazine some time back, Nawab Bugti described the natural gas wells in Sui as a blessing of Allah upon the people of Dera Bugti. He said that all allegations of sabotage against him are baseless because the Sui gas is the maata (mother) of his tribe. How can he sabotage the source of income for his people.

Nawab Bugti`s mindset clearly indicates that he considers the natural gas reserves in Dera Bugti as his personal/tribal asset, not a Balochi asset. ``

What makes him any different from Pakistani Army or Musharraf ? Maybe he has lesser ambitions of grandeur than the Hamid Guls, Aziz Khans etc. of the Pakistani Army ?

In an interview given to Herald magazine some time back, Nawab Bugti described the natural gas wells in Sui as a blessing of Allah upon the people of Dera Bugti. He said that all allegations of sabotage against him are baseless because the Sui gas is the maata (mother) of his tribe. How can he sabotage the source of income for his people.

Nawab Bugti`s mindset clearly indicates that he considers the natural gas reserves in Dera Bugti as his personal/tribal asset, not a Balochi asset.

#5 by HisExcellency ,

It is like this, everyone is playing everyone. After the kill, lions, hyenas, jackals, crows move in - whoever gets whatever.
there is a Punjabi saying ``Jut Juttan they saalay, karday Ghaalay Maalay``. It is a big ghaala maala.

None trusts the other. It is a marriage (more like a menage a four) of convenience. or forced marriages of convenience.

kaurasach #1

``King is the US, and queen is Pakistan (read Musharaf). Bishop and Elephants, and horses are Iran, Afghanistan, etc...... ``

An interesting analogy. It would be interesting to know which pieces are black and which ones are white :)) Some pieces are gray because they are playing on both sides! The million dollar question is: Who is playing against whom?

Are the Americans & Pakistanis playing against Iran?
Are the Chinese & Pakistanis playing against America?
Are the Americans and Chinese playing against each other?
Are the Baloch playing against Pakistan or are they playing against every body else?

Or may be this is not a chessboard at all. What appears to be a chess game, is actualy a game of poker in which some players are bluffing, others are raising the ante while others are waiting the others out before making their move.

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HP

As I see it, it’s the failure of the government in Pakistan to integrate its diverse ethnic groups, its failure to provide political space to them, its failure to equitably distribute revenues to provinces, its failure to create civil society, and its failure to create an identity of a “Pakistani” that precedes one’s ethnicity. In other words, Pakistan government, military or civil, has been a grand failure in every respect since Pakistan’s inception. Unless all that is resolved, Pakistan will never get to the level of a progressive, prosperous and a civil society at peace with itself. That will remain a grandiose fantasy of its well-wishers.

All this criticism in the Pakistani media about Baluchi sardars versus Baluchi people seems a little misplaced. By definition the rich and powerful have the time and money for politics. Plus if they are so bad why are they being paid millions of dollars by the Pakistani state ? You cannot have it both ways.

Baloch are just the piyadas in the Great chess Game. 19th century history repeating again in the region. King is the US, and queen is Pakistan (read Musharaf). Bishop and Elephants, and horses are Iran, Afghanistan, etc......

Usually the piyadas are the first to go and most to die.....In this kind of game, usually the game is stopped before queen and the king get hurt.