Cover-Up of a Gang Rape by the Military?

#48 by HP

[So how many people in Gujarat have so far been punished for rape?]

Don’t get too emotional. The mobs that indulged in violence in Gujarat can be accused of anything but rape. Please get your facts right.

[Both Dalits and Muslims claim that they are treated as second-class citizen in India. Some Dalits even think they are treated worst than that. There are 1001 references available on the net.]

I don’t deny some Dalits and Muslims feel that way. But there are any number of them who think otherwise too. The Indian state does not discriminate against the disaffected, some Indians may.

[If you wanna play that finger pointing game, then let it roll.]

Take it easy mate, I was only responding to some Paki interactors who want to convince us that the Paki Army does not condone rape.

Aziz Narejo you have actually labeled your hidden agenda by labeling this article...that gang rape...a no doubt a very heinous act...was not done by ARMY but an individual who unfortunately is a part of army...but your article heading suggest that the rape was committed by the whole army.. Its like when a sindhi commits a crime and we will say all sindhis are criminal..

and there is also no doubt that after the crime there were attempts to protect the criminal by some influential persons but considering the general corruption and nepotism that prevails in our society...we cannot simply generalize that the cover up was official from army...every one of us try to use our ``contacts`` whenever is possible and the criminal did the same thing..!

#47 by rahul_capri

Rahul,

That is the reason I wanted to challenge that Ghairat thing. Why women exploitation becomes a Ghairat issue? What kind of honor is that you demonize your own relations for some thing they did not have any control over.
Why is it wrong for an adult girl to have sex with men without having any marital relations with them? Why a brother would go bonkers over his sister’s transgression but not give up an opportunity to sleep with any woman himself.
Shouldn’t the sister make that a ghairat issue too?

Let me go further into this sex outside of marriage that I talked about in my earlier post. I am not so sure about Indians but a Pakistani man with a perverted mind would consider that an ultimate crime. It is actually worst than murder.
Why having sex is akin to murder or it deserves murder? If a wife has sex outside the marriage, deal with it and the maximum penalty may be a divorce and that too because of incompatibility or breach of a mutually agreed contract. Nobody needs to die or be demonized for having sex for god sake!

I agree with you on the rape issue. I have met many women in the US, who were able to talk about rape without any impact on their person or their social standing though it did leave psychological scars for them. Unfortunately, in Pakistani society for a rape victim life is like mar mar kay jeena!

#43 by harish_hyd
[How many people were punished severely for the rapes in Bangladesh?]
“You’re forgetting the fact that the Bong Muslims were considered inferior to the superior West Paki Muslims, so it was okay you know.”

So how many people in Gujarat have so far been punished for rape?

Both Dalits and Muslims claim that they are treated as second-class citizen in India. Some Dalits even think they are treated worst than that. There are 1001 references available on the net.
Every society has it share of perverts. Indian and Pakistani societies are no exception. If you wanna play that finger pointing game, then let it roll.

Re: # 37
HP, nice post.Here is part of my post on another issue on another site .

``Furthermore, this is my personal opinion and I would like to examine it by posting it here, that the heinousness of sexual violence is actually a double whammy against women.Every culture, not just eastern and third world, but western and developed countries too, somehow treat rape as something which is demeaning to the victim herself.There are hoards of examples in our culture. For example - I can rememeber countless scenes from hindi movies when the woman after being raped..says.. ``Ab to mai kisi ko muh dikhane ke kabil nahi rahi..`` and goes to commit suicide or something.Or another-the term ``izzat lootna `` How can somebody`s izzat be looted? If a man is raping a woman, is he surrendering his own izzat or looting hers? Why do we tolerate and use such language? I wonder how it came to be this way. It seems like a big conspiracy which generations of men have perpetrated against women, and we are so steeped in this nonsense that we make it true by believing in it. We are actually making the crime more heinous by believing that it is heinous.After the victim is raped, besides the obvious physical trauma of rape, she also has to undergo pity of the bechari rape victim and stuff like that. Its not like a car hit you when you are crossing the road and you report the driver to the police.The pity for a rape victim is like ``iski to life barbad ho gayi..`` and not like ``iska haath toot gaya`` or something. Besides this,esides the cultural component, there is one more component of the stupidity against rape victims- male chauvinism .some males feel that if a girl wears ``provocative`` clothes,she is a party to the crime and she invites rape, which is comeple BS according to me.I wonder what they would feel if they were raped by girls for wearing some provocative clothes or stuff like that.So, in campaigning against sexual violence, if we work against the attitudes pertaining to it, so that- a) The victim does not get patronizing ,demeaning and idiotic sympathy and ostracization. b) Her case is judged farily and the blame not apportioned to her for not confirming to some stupid parochial norms .. The ostracizing of victims and the shame they might possibly feel(ironically) for being a victim might possibly change.That might lead to more and more rape cases being reported and rapists being punished.``

I totally agree with harish sahib. But find it very funny is a sick sort of way the whole
idea of leaving behind a condom.

Re: # 44
Thank You!!!

#38 by yahyajamil

[I think it isabsurd for the rapist to use condoms and then also leave them behind. For the very reason you mention that the rapist use condoms, why would he leave these behind?]

The only reason the rapist left behind the condom was the very reason he committed the rape in the first place...that he would never be caught.

#5 by arjun_m

[How many people were punished severely for the rapes in Bangladesh?]

You’re forgetting the fact that the Bong Muslims were considered inferior to the superior West Paki Muslims, so it was okay you know.

Here are some excerpts from an article by a Pakistani (Hamid Hussain) on how West Pakis had for long looked down upon East Pakis and how the long-held prejudices finally culminated in the horrific genocide of 1971:

``The prejudice against Bengali Muslims has a long history and was quite prevalent long before Pakistan emerged as an independent state. Muslim intellectuals, elites and politicians, who belonged to northern India, had the picture of a Muslim as tall, handsome and martial in character. As Bengali Muslims did not fit into this prejudiced and racist picture, therefore they were ignored at best and when even allowed to come closer, were considered inferior. Bengalis were shunned despite their political advancement and strong resentment against oppression and tyranny. A large portion of Bengali Muslims was converts from Hindu low castes. The ``noble borns`` of Bengal claimed foreign ancestry (Syed, Afghan, Mughal). The majority of Bengali Muslim population which had customs common with Hindu peasantry and had a proud sense of their language was not considered as ``proper Muslims`` by some Bengali ``nobles`` and almost all of West Pakistan.``

Aren`t we committing rape here by flashing the name of the victim and referring to the perpetrator of the crime as `a captain in the army`?

A wish for Valentine`s Day
Love One Another

Love one another, but make not a bond of love.
Let it rather be a moving sea between the shores of your souls.
Fill each other`s cup, but drink not from one cup.
Give one another of your bread, but eat not from the same loaf.
Sing and dance together and be joyous, but let each one of you be alone.
Even as the strings of a lute are alone though they quiver with the same music.
Give your hearts, but not into each other`s keeping.
For only the hand of life can contain your hearts.
And stand together, yet not too near together.
For the pillars of the temple stand apart.
And the oak tree and the cypress grow not in each other`s shadow.

Khalil Gibran

Re: # 37
You are entitled to your ideas.
You are right! Rape is not a ghairat issue for the victim, for rape does not taint her honor, but for the Patriarchy that makes the laws. Legal systems are based upon morality and that my dear is subjective. When the Judiciary, Legislators, Police fail to make, pass, and enforce just laws in the land, they lose their honor not just in the view of others, but in the eyes of God.
Ghairat is a matter of dignity. If we cant prevent such heinous crimes, then we as a nation atleast need to punish them. It is a matter of our self-respect as a nation that calls its self Pakistan.
The word is supposed to mean something, and the purity and Hayaa of Islam is invoked just by calling one`s self Pakistani.
If you think such thoughts are bogus. Think away.
It matters not an iota to me, whether you endorse or despise ideas contradictory to yours.

This is a pathetic attempt to treat this rape incident as an isolated one with out looking into what is happening to the society at large. The military has let down the law and order situation to such an extent that organisations are hiring military to protect their installation, that is on a payment basis. You have WAPDA managed by the military hiring military as guards to protect transmission towers. This is a fantastic arrangement, the same is happening to the gas plants, military is hired on payment basis.

I am sure some one familiar with the pak military, can they see an economic opportunity. having cornered the cement, corn flakes, okhara farms, fishing, is it possible that military is looking for further revenue opportunities.

Re: # 13
ShoreSahib,
I think it isabsurd for the rapist to use condoms and then also leave them behind. For the very reason you mention that the rapist use condoms, why would he leave these behind? A crime has been committed and it is heinous. However, the media appears to be having a great time with conjectures at the cost of the poor victim. Similarly, if the Army Captain is innocent, then the Army should realise that the longer they keep mum, the greater damage it does to him and the Army`s image. If he is guilty the Army should make an example of him like the Tando Bhawal case. If they are waiting for the DNA test well that is another thing.
I agree with Romair that the Army has absolutley no interest in protecting the Captain (son or no son of three or four star), but Army also does not victimise its personnel.

Good post #34 by queen_cut&paste,

I will continue to harp on this Ghairat thing and Haya nothing!

If the educated from our part of the world continue to have this kind of bogus thoughts in their heads, then what can we expect from our poor and uneducated. Rape is not a ghairat issue it is a purely legal and criminal issue and people should make sure that the laws are followed and are followed in a timely manner instead of making it a Sindhi Ghairat ka sawal hai or Balochi Ghairat Ka sawal hai. Sindh ghairat say Arabian ocean main nahin dooba ga because of this rape nor would Balochistan. They will remain where they are.

But let’s first try and decipher this Ghairat and Haya. What are these animals?

Okay would a ghairatmand Zamindar sit down on the floor and ask his hari/kissan/mazarah to sit on the chair?

Would this Ghairatmand Zamindar allow his 13 years old sister to clean his hari/kissan/mazarah home for money on a daily basis?


Is Gahirat a one-way street only or women have same rights in this too?

A situation:
What should a man do if his wife has relations outside the marriage?
Should he kill himself?
Should he kill her?
Should he make her leave home or
Should he kill her paramour/paramours?

What is his wife’s Ghairat, if she catches him in a relationship?
Should she kill herself?
Should she kill him?
Should she make him leave home or
Should she kill his mistress?

Female having sex outside the marriage is a Ghairat issue for men only.

Lets come to the rape issue.
if a female army captain had raped a male doctor with her friends would that still be a Ghairat issue? (This can happen!)

Would SANA be still issuing press releases and Saying “Bhainsaan sindhi manoo ji izzat lut gi vai”?

Would people still be writing letters: Dear Brother, we are bey Ghairat!

Further more!
In Karachi, there are approx. 5000 girls, helping their families by selling bodies. They are not doing it for themselves they are the only bread earners in the family. Would you call them prostitute or are they being raped everyday because they have no other choice. Where would Ghairat stand in this issue? Do their father and Brothers have some Ghairat or they are all bay-Ghairat! Obviously all those girls are bey haya!

What does Haya mean?
Does it mean lowering your eyes when a man passes by a female?
Does it mean to cover head when a female see a man?
Does it mean to hide all your body part because if a man looks at a female body, female body would go on fire?

If they don’t do all of the above, are they beyhaya and are subject to remedial classes?

Finally, people have this habit of pulling the Quran out of their hip pocket on every issue. First, they need to keep it at some respectable place. Second, the Quran was written in a tribal era so it carries tribal values and lastly, it is a religious book and not some sociology 101 to cite for every issue.

queen_cut&paste #34

`` The only reason everyone is upset about this case is that

(a) it is an educated person who was raped
(b ) its a medical professional who was raped
(c ) being a medical professional there a pretty high probablity she is reasonably connected
(d ) because it has happened in Baluchistan ``

I would presume being a medical personnel would give you some respect in society. A lady doctor who has delivered babies for lower middle class and poor ppl is unlikely to ever get attacked by fathers and brothers of those babies. It is true in some parts of the world.