Cover-Up of a Gang Rape by the Military?

Urstruly #29

`` Sharia Laws have not made the legal system weak, it is the dualty in the system that has made a joke of whole legal system. Military rule has created this dualty for political reasons. The Holy Prophet (pbuh) once said ``the nations before you were destroyed because when a weak individual in the society committed a crime they used to punish him severly and when a strong among them committed the same crime they used to look the other way. I swear to God if Mohammad`s own daughter had committed an act of stealing, I would have cut her hands off myself``. Thesystem that military has created for us is exactly the system that Holy Prophet warned us of. The people of Pakitan are disenfranchised to such an extent that they cannot remove the dualty in the legal system where Isalmic law is used to punish weak of the society and English Common law is used for those who can`t manage to get away, whereas ruling class is immune from any law. How the hell it is not a political issue. Why the hell should we not ``score`` political points. Everything goes to the politics of the country. In dictatorships all fingers are pointed at the despot.

Lets be fair here. Although, in Pakistan the courts decide some of the cases on Hadud and other laws, the legal verdicts are never carried thru. Since the time Zia has enacted so called Islamic laws, not a single individual has been leashed with 80 leashes in a public place for fornication. No adulterer has ever been stonned to death; no individual has been punished with leashes for consuming liquor, no hands have been chopped off and no individual has been given death penalty for blasphemy. Now please explain to me how a system can be ineffective when it is not even in practice yet. I would say if one individual is stonned to death for adultery, men will keep their snakes in their pants for next 50 years and we wouldn`t find ourselves whinning here like eunichs. ``

Saudi Arabia and Kuwait have strict laws supposedly based on Islam. I doubt it prevents the ruling elites from indulging in excesses. They get their share of flesh and wine. It does not hurt to have lots of money that they can buy all the sins of life. ``Islamic`` law is just a stick to keep the populations in check.

lets face it - the life of a woman is cheap is pakistan. women have been raped before with whole villages and communities present as an audience and nothing much happened to the people who raped, and to those numbskulls who instigated them.

The only reason everyone is upset about this case is that

(a) it is an educated person who was raped
(b ) its a medical professional who was raped
(c ) being a medical professional there a pretty high probablity she is reasonably connected
(d ) because it has happened in Baluchistan

Otherwise this would have been old history by now. So whats the point in shedding these crocodile tears now. It is unseemly and pretty disgusting to see all the faux chest beating and tub thumping going on.

AS URSTRULY and Tahmed and others have said (could be HP I dont recall) Law and Order is what the feudal want rest is meaningless. So if you really want this thing called law and order and punishement for rapists do any one of the following

(a) Catch hold of the women of the top 50 families in pakistan
and
(b ) march them up and down the streets of Pakistan without any modesty
OR
(c ) Do (a) and rape (preferably by a few 100 of the low class men) them is full view of the city (say in the Qaddafi stadium) and have it televised
Or
(d) do (a) and I leave the rest to your imagination.

All of the above are pretty abhorent crimes, and anyone indulging them should be hung drawn and quartered . And when these guys are hung, drawn and quartered, youwill have good precedents, and hopefully there will be law and order.

Till then I am afraid we all have to reach the safe havens of the west (the kafir lands) for some form of self-respect.

Sad and pathetic situation yes. But that is the reality and all we can do is wring our collective hands helplessly and pray to the god for justice.

Re: # 31
Haya is a Quranic Concept. It refers to the modesty enjoined upon Muslim Men and Women. It refers to the purity of character.
You are entitled to your opinion about Honor being a non sensical concept. So be it.
As far as the poor girl is concerned, she is working to earn her living, and that is a source of honor for her. The poor man squating on the floor infront of the Zamindaar is no less Ghairatmund than the Zamindaar. Ghairat has nothing to do with wealth and power, and everything to do with one`s character.
Are you implying poor people have no honor?

``A civil society never decides cases based on abstract concepts`` HP

America also decides much based on abstract concepts like Pursuit of liberty, freedom of speech, Preamble to the Constituiton, etc.

Urstruly #29 The important thing is to have a system for making laws that ensures open debate and modifications over time to reflect the results of experience. It is this system that has been reduced to shambles by the military governments by their constant coups, issuances of ordinances under the cover of religion.

The pakistan penal and civil code is no doubt based on british law as you say - AND it has stood the test of time because it was put together through the kind of constitutional system I mention above.

If sharia laws were introduced through such a system, they would no doubt be modified anyway - since they do not even reflect the Quran, and were merely vehicles of the ottoman and other kings to impose their rule in the same way pakistani rulers have tried to do. Thus (to take just one example) the hadood ordinance nowhere reflects the Quranic injunction calling for mercy in case of repentence. Thus, even from a purely religious point of view it is defective. So: the key thing is to have a democratic system in place. Then let the people decide. Not generals. Not kings. Not maulvis.

Ghairatmand, Haya are nonsensical concepts promoted by the feudal society. There is no such thing as Ghairat or Haya for poor folks in Pakistan or in a civil society. How many people in the US or the West talk about Ghiarat and Haya when dealing with a rape case? What happens to Ghairat when a poor man has to sit on the floor in front of Ghairatmand zamindar or when a 13 years old poor girl has to clean a Ghairatmand Zamindar’s house?
A civil society never decides cases based on abstract concepts.
These things sound good in Punjabi movies but no law or reprimand should be based on these abstract concepts.
Do people talking about Ghairat also support Honor killing?

Re: # 23
HP

only Ghairat mand men and women have the power to change the laws and create a society which honors and respects all its citizens. Ghairat does not neccesarily mean going out and killing as in the honor killing but having enough honor and dignity to realize the difference between right and wrong and having the guts to stand up for what is true and just.

tahmad:

Sharia Laws have not made the legal system weak, it is the dualty in the system that has made a joke of whole legal system. Military rule has created this dualty for political reasons. The Holy Prophet (pbuh) once said ``the nations before you were destroyed because when a weak individual in the society committed a crime they used to punish him severly and when a strong among them committed the same crime they used to look the other way. I swear to God if Mohammad`s own daughter had committed an act of stealing, I would have cut her hands off myself``. Thesystem that military has created for us is exactly the system that Holy Prophet warned us of. The people of Pakitan are disenfranchised to such an extent that they cannot remove the dualty in the legal system where Isalmic law is used to punish weak of the society and English Common law is used for those who can`t manage to get away, whereas ruling class is immune from any law. How the hell it is not a political issue. Why the hell should we not ``score`` political points. Everything goes to the politics of the country. In dictatorships all fingers are pointed at the despot.

Lets be fair here. Although, in Pakistan the courts decide some of the cases on Hadud and other laws, the legal verdicts are never carried thru. Since the time Zia has enacted so called Islamic laws, not a single individual has been leashed with 80 leashes in a public place for fornication. No adulterer has ever been stonned to death; no individual has been punished with leashes for consuming liquor, no hands have been chopped off and no individual has been given death penalty for blasphemy. Now please explain to me how a system can be ineffective when it is not even in practice yet. I would say if one individual is stonned to death for adultery, men will keep their snakes in their pants for next 50 years and we wouldn`t find ourselves whinning here like eunichs.

Re: # 23
I am amazed that you do not know the meaning of Ghairat. I was taught at a very early age the difference between Ghairatmundi and BeyGhairtee. My grandmother taught me that To be GhairatMund is to have honor and respect for one`s self and others. It is a related concept to Hayaa, applicable equally to both men and women. It is not a feudal conception but a concept rooted firmly in the character building of the South Asian psyche.
Have you ever heard, Chulloo Bhar Pani mein Doob maro!

``This bey Ghairat and Ghairat things are feudal and tribal concepts. In a civil society, there are laws that deal with the criminal cases like Rape. Let the law takes its course and not sensationalize this issue for political gains.
I wish SANA could spend its energies talking about the real issues in Sindh and stop promoting feudal agenda of honor and Ghairat!`` HP

What Law! What justice? The farce called the Hudood Ordinance! What world do you live in? Since when did the People of Pakistan start recieving Justice? We are not a civil society, rather one of powermongers and great injustice.

The question is do we care about our women or not? We are supposedly a Muslim country yet women are raped, beaten, burned, sold, sodomized in a muslim country. I work with rape victims and I tell them it is not your fault. When I think, if I was to counsel women in Pakistan what woud I say I am at a loss for words. I think every woman no matter who she is should fear being raped in Pakistan because we do not punish our rapists. We as a nation breed and develop rapists, as silence is akin to agreement and encouragment.
If a woman report rapes she is put in jail because of zina charge under the sharia law. The hudood laws are a mockery of Islam made by a general who wanted to please the clergy and rule. As far as finding a witness is concerned who in the right mind will come forward and say, arrest me please , for I have raped? So until the laws are changed men are free to rape and roam on the streets of Pakistan looking for their next victim. Until that day, I just hope and pray that somone we love does not become a vitim of rape.

it does not make sense for the military to protect the guilty. it is not like the accused is some bigshot. This seems like bad press and too much trouble.

HP: There is no doubt that the captain will get his day in court, and if there is any doubt of his guilt he will be set free. The people raising a hue and cry about this (even if it is baluchi sardars using this as a tool) are doing a service to the cause of human justice.

Last year, a poor peasant woman was gang raped in Pakistan by the landlord and his men, as you know. It goes to the credit of the village maulvi that he spoke out against this in friday prayers (thus proving there are good people even among maulvis), and this raised awareness nationally and internationally - the result was that the men were tried, found guilty and executed. And the peasant woman received funds through which she has started a school for girls in her village. So, public outcry CAN have an effect.

I was proud of our military 40 years ago when they defended the nation`s honor against heavy odds, and fought and lay down their lives like honorable men. Never after that. Today, I am proud of our civilians who are standing up to the same military.

further to #22 the christian boy i refer to was of course terrorized (until some european country took him in) under the blasphemy laws, of course, not under hadood laws as i wrote incorrectly. but the basic point is the same - sharia laws have strengthened the already unacceptable level of control by the government over the life and honor of the individual in Pakistan.

Shoresahib,
Can you explain what Bey-Ghairat Men and Ghairatmand mean?
Do we have stats on how many Rapes are committed in Pakistan and how many Ghairat mand die because of that?

Rape is a horrible crime. It may also be true that an army officer did it, and it may further be true that army is covering up for its officer.
But, what about people that are using it for political purposes? Are they Ghairat mand or they are as much Bey ghairat as the people that are protecting the army officer.

This bey Ghairat and Ghairat things are feudal and tribal concepts. In a civil society, there are laws that deal with the criminal cases like Rape. Let the law takes its course and not sensationalize this issue for political gains.
I wish SANA could spend its energies talking about the real issues in Sindh and stop promoting feudal agenda of honor and Ghairat!

urstruly: while i agree with most of what you say, you need to be objective and fair when it comes to sharia laws rather than trying to absolve their role in weakening the legal framework of pakistan by trying to find loopholes in them. The plain and simple fact is that the sharia laws are in fact military ordinances issued by zia, and they have had the effect of giving legal cover to the arbitrary power over the life and honor of individual pakistanis that a military dictator already enjoys.

This has weakened the legal system in Pakistan - thus making it even easier than it already is for the powerful to exercise control over the weak. The only valid laws are those that are made by a properly elected legislature, after due and open debate. None of this took place in case of the hadood laws when they were introduced. And they have been the source of much injustice - as in case of the 14 year old christian boy who was sentenced to death under these laws, when the problem was that he annoyed some local big-wig; or to the women who have been raped and put in jail as a result of these laws.

what is a woman or two?

the occupying army rapes and plunders the whole country

the above is facetious

***

on a more serious note, the women in the islamic republic are (exceptions aside) a notch below the fallen atumn leaf...religion, logic, rights, respect, rationality notwithstanding

Romair #17 you write ``Can a Captain rape someone and get away with it? Having been a Captain, I would have to say, ``No,`` for various reasons that are too detailed to explain here. ``

You rape logic and murder facts when you say this.