Cover-Up of a Gang Rape by the Military?

ZahraJ #142: ``Completely retarded logic! But then that`s the hallmark of your defensive versions``

As I have pointed out many times before, kindly argue the point. You have a tendency to make a whole group of statements, and then when someone provides a counterpoint, you start name calling........

I have provided you statistics from US women`s organizations, about rape in the USA. If you think that is retarded, then I can only feel sorry for you. Rape statistics should not be taken as retarded logic. In fact, they are not logic, they are statistics. Hard cold facts.....

The solution to every problem is not to have the West, ``enter Pakistan to save the muslims from their fellow evil brethren.`` That solution results in nothing more than killings of innocents (not to mention more rape, itself: do read the statistics on Vietnam). Apeing the West for some things is good, but not for everything. I certainly don`t want a college environment in Pakistan, where my daughter would have 25% chance of being raped, at sometime during her stay there........

Rape is neither a Western nor an Eastern phenomenon. That is the point I am trying to make. In fact, if you study some sociology, you may realize that rape is not even a crime of sex. It is actually a crime of power. Men rape women for power, not for sex.........And statistically speaking, they do it quite a bit everywhere.......

What is the solution?

For starters, people should not refer to rape statistics as retarted logic. They should try to study them. Secondly, the aim should be to empower women and give them access to justice. And thirdly, the aim should be to put some sort of control on relations based on overly sexual desires of males and females.

You need to do the first. Pakistan needs to do the second. The USA needs to do the third. Neither has been able to control rape............At least according to the statistics presented by American women`s associations (you can refuse to accept them, if you want, however)............

RE: How should the concern be actually shown? Any suggestions or recommendations?


1. I believe accepting there is a problem and realizing the magnitude of the problem is the first step.

2. Creating agencies that work with rape victims providing them with medical, emotional and psychological help.

3. When a woman is raped she should undergo a complete medical evaluation ( a rape kit )as done in the US.

4. Bringing the perpetrator face to face with the victim and the victim given a formal apology .

5. Paying restitution to the victim. The perpetrator should be made to paid monetary restitution to the victim and one half of his earnings shall be given to the victim for the rest of his life.

6. The culprit should be made to work community service and accept his crime in group discussions and talk about his motives and how if any he is changed.

7. Integrating the rape victim bak into the society and assuring her that rape was not her fault and she is not any less respectable than she was before she was raped.

8. Creating public awareness about rape and talking openly about the reasons, motives and actions of the perpetrator.

9. Accepting that rape is never the victims’s fault and imposing strict , harsh punishments on rapists so it instills fear.

There can be a lot more that can be done but this is the least we can do . Fear of harsh punishment and resentment of public towards rapists will to some degree deter the criminals. The criminal justice system needs to step up , punish the criminals and no one should be above the law.

Maybe some of you will say dream on but I will dream on as dreams do someday lead to reality. If we can create Pakistan from a dream then we sure can work to save that Pakistan with another dream.

HOPE!!!!!!

Ijaz:

learned from geo the report has been submitted to the government...this article will follow its descend as others appear on main page...but when the report comes out post your views on another thread or in your ilog...

rgds

t

Re: # 136
zahraJ,
You asked for some way to show concern. I really do not think that there is any way. The closest to showing concern is an institutional remedy that ensures swift justice. Maybe HP has a point that we need to follow the west in such cases. What is needed is a system that provides the victim necessary professional help to overcome the trauma. What can show concern is a change in our attitudes (especially males) towards victims of rape. What is needed is an acceptance by society that victims of rape should not be pitied but treated with kindness and gentleness that surpassas similar sentiments expressed on bereavement. Perhaps all these put togrther may create a semblance of concern. I personally do not think that any human act can be more depraved than that of rape. As more and more women go out of their homes, whether to study or in pursuit of livlihood, we have to bring about institutional changes to protect them. Sadly we only pay lip service to this aspect. The world is by and large male dominated and will probably remain so for a long time, at least in our part. We have to take institutional measures to balance the gender in-equalities.

Re: # 142

Completely retarded logic! But then that`s the hallmark of your defensive versions.

ZahraJ #139: ``The victims will have to look up to the western nations and institutions for justice. That day is not very far when western nations/institutions will enter Pakistan to save the muslims from their fellow evil brethren.``

Every two minutes, a women is raped in the USA. And 25% of all US female college students have been raped. Nearly half of those raped were by romantic acquintences. 44% of the women who have been raped, in the USA, have considered suicide.

http://womensissues.about.com/od/rapecrisis/a/rapestats.htm

One should not get carried away in bringing in the West for everything. Rape is a huge problem in the USA. Not to mention the fact that the USA, itself, does not recognize International Criminal Courts, since its citizens could be charged of rape in foreign places, like Iraq etc.

I am friends with quite a few US female college students, from my college days. In addition, my wife went to US colleges and actually stayed with a group of girls there. Some of whom are regular visitors to our house. The situation of the average US college educated girl, on the sex and marraige side is not very good. I really don`t think it is better than the situation of the average Pakistan college educated girl, who (lets say) is on Chowk. Both are equally empowered. Yet the stories I have heard of how the ladies here have been used and abused (yes abused) by men are far more abusive than what I have heard about educated and empowered women in Pakistan.

The problem is that in Pakistan, very few women have access to college etc.

There really is no solution to rape. Other than swift prosecution of it. And empowerment of women. Although women in USA are very empowered. Yet 25% of them are raped in college. I doubt empowered Pakistani women (those in college) are raped at such a high percentages...........

Re: # 140

HP:

Point well noted.

Thanks.

#136 by ZahraJ
“How should the concern be actually shown? Any suggestions or recommendations?”

Zahra,

Honestly, I don’t know! And I am not going to get into a debate w/you on this issue either. I have some idea about what your thoughts are and I respect them though I don’t entirely agree with them.
The US media has a uniform policy in publicizing the rape cases and that policy is based on respecting the victims rights and identity more than any thing else. That I think is a civilized approach. Can this policy be ported to Pakistan? I think it can be.

This particular case never even made it to the fine prints until Sardar Bugti so crassly decided to use it for his benefit ten days after the deed. Since then it has not left the headlines and the poor woman who was humiliated once, is now being humiliated everyday in public.

Aziz Narejo,

Thank you for posting an objective article raising the concern amongst the international community to kick the current regime`s manipulated law and order system alongwith the ones who need to be kicked in their right places. That`s why an International Council (I had earlier proposed) is necessary to jump in, when the affected citizens of a country do not know where to go and whom to consult. If the government led by the armed forces is not allowing a legal action to kick in to avoid a civilian uproar then that is wrong and should be unacceptable.

Still, I disagree with the stance that the institution is the real culprit. The culprit is the person who committed the crime and the masses who are dead to engage in such an activity. It`s not army, it`s not police and it`s not the judiciary. Sadly enough, there was a time when certain institutions held a lot of respect and the people associated with those institutions were highly well regarded. To my knowledge that included both civil services and the legal/judicial system.

I hope that the culprits are hanged or stoned. After all it is the Islamic Republic of Pakistan. If the government cannot resolve the basic day to day matters of their people in a fair islamic way then they should get rid of the baggage they have been carrying for the past 50 plus years. Just name the country as ``Pakistan``.

The woman should be the one to stone the culprits to death if the real shariat is followed. This is when the orthodox clergy should be on the streets to demand fair trial - if they are sincere. By the way, this is also the right time to involve the muslim ummah. Probably, getting some tips from the Saudis in bringing the culprits to their final destination may help.

Sarcasm aside, none of the muslim countries will show their spines at this time. The victims will have to look up to the western nations and institutions for justice. That day is not very far when western nations/institutions will enter Pakistan to save the muslims from their fellow evil brethren.

Zaharaj,
Nice to see you around.

From whatever information that I have gathered and put in my various interacts, it appears that none of us are into the facts of the matter.

I think that the best way to show concern is not to speculate. Lets wait for the forensic evidence and the facts to come out.

CHOWK STAFF
I would request the chowk staff to keep this story on the front page till such time the final investigation is made public. There has been too much mud slinging about the army and people of Pakistan, in which YayaJamil and myself have taken the opposite stand. So I would be interested to see who have to take their words back and Whatever.

Cheerios

Re: # 135

Temporal jee,
thank you for your appreciation.

HP:

[I doubt that they actually have any concern for the poor girl who went thru whatever happened there helplessly. ]

How should the concern be actually shown? Any suggestions or recommendations?

sajal:

good post!

This is phenomenal,

I read this today in the vagina monologues,

`` Night after night I heard the same stories- women being raped as teenagers, in college, as little girls, as elderly women;women who had finally eacaped being beaten to death by their husbands;women who were terrified toleave; women who were taken sexually, before they were even conscious of sex, by their step fathers, brothers, uncles, mothers and fathers. I began to feel insane, as if a door had been opened to some underworld and I was being told things I was not supposed to know; knowing these things was dangerous.
Slowly, it dawned on me that nothing was more important than stopping violence against women-that the desecration of women indicated the failure of human beings to honor and protect life and that this failing would, if we did not correct it , be the end of us all. I do not think I am being extreme. When you rape, beat , mutilate, burn, bury and terrorize women, you destroy the essential life energy on the planet. You force what is meant to be open, trusting, nurturing, creative and alive to be bent , infertile and broken``.

These words blew me away!!!!!!

Re: # 124
(yahyajamil
You are a well read and a sharp person. This is an anonymous forum and nobody expect any body to post lot of information about them. I like your posts and am kind of surprised that despite the army background, you clearly show a solid knowledge of the ground situation in Pakistan. Cheer up and like I said to Irfan, Relax!)

HP,
thanks for the gracious remarks. I am relaxed. Just do not like being called a liar, especially when I have made my credentials clear on this`anonymous` forum. Perhaps it has to do with my military experience where I have always dealt up front without hiding anything.
Your article on Balochistan is superb.

Re: # 124
(yahyajamil
You are a well read and a sharp person. This is an anonymous forum and nobody expect any body to post lot of information about them. I like your posts and am kind of surprised that despite the army background, you clearly show a solid knowledge of the ground situation in Pakistan. Cheer up and like I said to Irfan, Relax!)

HP,
thanks for the gracious remarks. I am relaxed. Just do not like being called a liar, especially when I have made my credentials clear on this`anonymous` forum. Perhaps it has to do with my military experience where I have always dealt up front without hiding anything.
Your article is superb.