Cover-Up of a Gang Rape by the Military?

Ijaz:

what do you take me for sir?...heheh no dice!...however, if you are on a trip around these parts it would be a pleasure to host you in TO...

my initial comments were based on this case...and yes...we should wait...BUT...then i went on my usual digressions:)...the canvas there was bigger...and not confined to this case

briefly #105:...yes there is some injustice and inequality and disparity in all societies...but don`t you think it would be gross travesty to compare where it happens least with where it happens most?

People at large still believe in fairplay, honour and justice.

there is no disagreement with above...in fact...my experience is this can be applied to masses in almost every land...my beef is confined to the occupying army and its cancerous fallout over the society

rgds

t

Re# 17

``There is only action that the Army, traditionally, protects its junior officers in, in relation to non-military organizations. And that is when junior officers go and beat up policewallahs. This tends to happen, now and then, because Army Captains and police officers, and specially sepoys, tend to go at it, once in a while. And, as per tradition, everyone from the Colonel to the General, supports his soldiers in such fights.......Interestingly most civilians in the jurisdiction of the police thana, also support the soldiers...........``

This so called support of the awam for the soldiers for beating the police wallas has changed dramatically and was evident when the beating of constable Nazir Dogar occurred. So much was the army critisied that our own mighty enlightened General had to say that he had himself did the investigation and had found the Maj. General involved in the incident to be innocent. If there is any doubt on this, let the army try to beat-up a policeman again, and then see what the reaction of the common man is.

By the way, even when the beating of police wallas by some Army lieutenants happend in Lahore a few years back, the incident was not looked upon favorably by the common man.

I guess people will take beating from an army that at least defeats its foes in the battle field. Who wants to love an army that gets a thrashing when it really matters and then comes back and slaps the civilians!

Breaking News!!
I learnt from some friends that hammad was recently married and soon after shifted with his family to Sui.It was his 4th day in the town when the incident took place.

Tahmed,
I have bet with Temporal that an entirely different story will surface.

Layman,
I do not contradict myself. I know hat I say. The fact that you disagree with me does not justify you making opinions. If you do, the burden is on you.

Cheerios

There were some comments earlier about the need for the Army to cover-up the case. The question is if Maj. Arshad Jamil could be hanged for killing 9 Sindhi peasants in 1992, then why would the Army try to cover a gang rape by a Captain in 2005?

Well, a lot of water has flown under the bridge since 1992.

A major difference between the time when Maj. Arshad Jamil committed the crime and today is that in 1992 the Army had been in the background for a few years and its image had not taken the type of battering that it has taken since 1999. The Army can potentially try to hide an act like rape perpetrated by its Captain (an individual act) in 2005 because the whole institution`s already weakened image can suffer even more due to the individual act of one of its wardi-wallas. This image has already taken quite a strong hit in the past few years, and the Generals don`t want it to suffer anymore.

Gone are the days of ``Fauj aur awam aik``. If anyone has any doubts, try talking to common folks, taxi drivers, shopkeepers in Pakistan today, and see how their views have changed in the past few years.

In 1992, when Maj. Arshad Jamil was proven guilty, people said: See, how good & honest our army is- in dispensing justice- even if it involves its own people.

In 2005, if the accused Captain is proven guilty of rape, people will say: See, this army lives off our blood, our sweat, and now these bullies have started raping the country`s women, our daughters, and our sisters.

That is the difference between 1992 & 2005. And the generals know that very well. That`s why all the hush hush.

shoresahib: thank you, sir, thank you. aap ki daad kaa shukriyaa. Warnaa yeh naacheez kis khhaet ki mooli hai! :-)

yahyajamil #103 I realize that bugti and other baluch leaders are using this case for political purposes, not out of any concern that justice is served. However, that does not mean that ordinary Pakistanis should therefore not raise their voice.

The vast majority of Pakistan army officers are no doubt honorable, ghairat mand(HP now has me feeling guilty using these words) individuals. Some of the finest individuals I have known - most of them gone by now - have been from the Pakistan military. I also know that the Pakistan military has a strong tendancy to protect its own. It is therefore all the more important that the military permit proper investigation, trial and punishment. So that the honor of the many is not besmirched by a the acts of a few subhumans. As an (ex?) army officer, you should be most strongly calling for proper investigation. Also important is that the lady doctor concerned receives the best possible emotional support. This could also be a good time for someone like Musharaff to re-affirm the high place of honor for the lady doctor - the animals may have attacked her body, but they cannot touch her soul.

As a doctor in a backward area, clearly she is the only honorable person I can see in this entire miserable episode.

ijazgul: you write to temporal ``I am ready to fly over to Canada on your expense..`` ha! ha! I too am willing to fly over to Pakistan at your expense (btw, could I come via the Pacific, with a stopover at hawaii where, in preparation for our discussions, I could further contemplate the issue on waikiki beach??)

#92 by ijaz_gul:
``As regards, East Pakistan, it remains debatable. I know many incidents where women of West Pakistani origin were dishonoured, maimed and mutilated in the genitals. In this sad chapter of history, inhuman excesses were committed by both sides.``
What a stupid, escapist comment! First you refuse to acknowledge the rapes by Pak army by saying `it remains debatable`, then you excuse it by saying `in this sad chapter of history, inhuman excesses were committed by both sides.`
Would you condone in the same manner HR violations by US army in Iraq, by comparing it with Iraqi guerillas kidnapping and murdering foreigners there, and saying excesses were commited by both sides?
Would you condone in the same manner Israeli action against Palestinians, equating it with the Palestinian suicide bombers?
The Mukti Bahini was not an army like Pak army - even then on the scale of atrocities, the two dont compare!

People from our part of the world, living in this country or in the west, still don’t understand the differences between a civil society and a feudal society. They still believe in Feudal society’s Gahirat and ignore a civilized and honorable person of any civilized society.
Obviously, it will take a long time or probably couple of generations for them to give up their silly notions of pride ghairat, izzat, khudi, izza-i-nafs, khud-dari etc.

I think these feudal inspired Ghairat mand people consider all western men BeyGhairat. Because women in the west have no qualms about sex before the marriage, men don’t kill their wives for cheating and for not disowning the rape victims like the Feudal society loves to do.

Thanks Hamidm

Here is the excerpt.

``After 1949, successive governments have continued to follow a faulty theme towards the civil society. Exclusion of the common man has resulted in despondency. Poverty, poor law and order, absence of social justice, corruption, militarisation of society, drugs, violence against select groups and rise of corrupted feudal primordialism are the major issues confronting Pakistan. These trends are visible in low turnout in elections, invitation by politicians for military interventions, tribal justice, and propagation of a feudal mindset in anyone in authority, attitudes of civil servants, an attenuating education system and a social retrograde in the rural areas. ``

Temporal,

This exploitation of the rights and perversion of the rule of law is endemic in all socities that have not developed socio economic and political pluralism. At times it also happens in advanced socities like USA. Just take the case of the illegal immigrants fron South america to till farm lands and many a cases of midcarried justice as aired by Discovery and History Channels in USA. Does the arbitrary application of LAW in Guantanemo Bay reflect justice and fairplay. Already more than half have been released as innocent, permanently indoctrinated to hate USA for the rest of their lives.

Yes Civil Socity in Pakistan is still developing, and it has something to do with the political opportunism of Qaid`s closest colleagues. For more details please see my article on Civil Society.

http://www.chowk.com/show_article.cgi?aid=00003687&channel=civic%20center

Well, I am a Pakistani who has risen from the rock bottom, and the society more than retard provided me the opportunities. Yes there are minor hicccups and they exist in every society. People at large still believe in fairplay, honour and justice. Just see the George Ka Pakistan at GEO and see our true potential.

I still believe there is no cover up and the facts will come out.

Any bets on that. I am ready to fly over to Canada on your expense.

Cheerios

Re: # 97

Excuse me what this `HP` means? In common parlance it means `hand practice` what the most ghairatmand and sharif persons induldge in. You can simply call them `HP`s` as menopause women are called `MP`s`. Why drag so much on definitions.

The moot point is whether it was at all a case of rape. For one, no rapist would use a condom. Even in normal sex one does not like to, so to say, wash hands with gloves on. The truth I don`t think will ever come out. We have still to know all the truth in Hamoodurrehman`s Enquiry Report.

Re: # 88
The Pakistan Army does suffer from `sub acha` (all OK) syndrome and you are right that it will cover up for many institutional failings. All armies do that, but none sanction institutional indiscipline as that will demolish the Army like no enemy can. If you can understand that, then please realise that the Sui incident has been politicised. Secondly to add to what ijaz_gul has said, the accused Captain is posted in a DSG Battalion (not Frontier Corps). This battalion is commanded by a Lieutenant Colonel. Having comanded an infantry battalion myself, I can assure you the last thing a Commanding Officer will do will be to overlook an act of indiscipline like rape. When someone quotes Bangladesh and like I have quoted Kashmir, they were and are combat like situations where individual acts of indisciline may occur. These as I say are neither ignored nor condoned. Those who have commanded troops know the horrofic results that stem from such an act.

Re: # 99

Tahmed Sahib and Shore sahib,

That was a good definition. I totally agree GHAIRAT means HONOR.

I dont know why HP continues to harp on his `` sick , twisted , sadistic meaning of ghairat``. The ghairat which he is talking about is abuse of POWER by powerful men in our society. They use this to control the weaker and less priviledged of our society namely the women and children. That is not ghairat!!!

tuff hay yara!

ghairat ki roti
aur honour ki daal
chowk kay b`rahmun
baja`aiN ooski dhOl

aur oodher quam ki, mulk ki aur auratON ki.......tuff hay yara!

Re: # 99
Yay!!!!!!!!!!!
Bravo!!
Applause for Tahmed!
What a Summation, Tahmed Sahib