Salil Kader February 13, 2005
#8 Posted by samb on February 16, 2005 11:00:08 am
``The sight of Pakistanis waving the tricolour and congratulating the Indian supporters, who had crossed the border to witness history being created, must have definitely warmed the hearts of all those peaceniks who advocate more people to people contacts.``
While the Pakistanis were waving the tricolour and congratulating the Indian supporters in lalaland, Pepsi India was coming up with ad campaigns that were derogatory to the Pakistan cricket team to widespread support from the Indian public.
But wait.. I thought this series was about dosti, jeet lo dil and all that other BS? I guess Indian public wasn`t down with the whole dosti shebang. Stupid delusional ``Pakis``.
``India won on the field, Pakistan off it, but cricket emerged as the real victor.``
Again, less of the cliches please. cricket will do all of jack shit to ``bring the people together``. In the awards ceremony after the match in Centurion in WC 2003, Indian supporters actually booed the Pakistan captain, Waqar Younis, who happens to be one of the all-time greatest cricket players and was playing his last tournament. Waqar sitll saw something funny in the situation and managed a smile. Tendulkar, the man who can do no wrong in the eyes of India, did not even have the grace or dignity to accept his man of the match award with some humility.
After the good old Pakistanis had bent over backwards for their Indian guests and been good, dignified losers (almost too good and too dignified for my taste) in the dosti series, the Pak team went over to India for the BCCI jubilee match. Salman Butt, a 20 year old, kid playing in only his 3rd or 4th game almost single-handedly won them the match. It was a special day. It marked the making of a new star and a cricket fan would have applauded the brilliant showing of this 20 year old who had beaten out physical and mental demons to lead his team to a win in a very good match of cricket. But instead Indian fans were busy mourning the one that got away. So, much for reciprocating jeet lo dil.
``That is because Karachi cannot be equated with Ahmedabad. Ahmedabad, they say, doesn’t witness the kind of sectarian and political violence that Karachi witnesses regularly.``
The first sentence made sense. The second one was shocking. Karachi has its problems but I will remind you that in Karachi, Hindu/Muslim mobs do not go out rampaging in the streets looking for Muslas/Baniyas to butcher respectively. Karachi does not see bloodshed in the scale of thousands taking place in the time of a few weeks. Besides, Karachi is the heart and soul of Pakistan and this is coming from a non-Karachiite. So, a comparsion of Karachi and Ahmedabad is ludicrous.
``And finally, if Pakistan does play in Ahmedabad, then the Great Pakistani Myth about life being dangerous for Indian Muslims in Gujarat will get absolutely punctured. That, as everybody knows, is simply not permitted in a country which is still in denial 34 years later about the realities and truths of East Pakistan/Bangladesh 1971. ``
I`m sorry but you really have to get over us. I mean as a Pakistani I couldn`t give a shit about what was going down in your country. You guys want to butcher your Muslims, please go ahead. Indian Muslims want to take revenge for Gujrat, please go ahead. WE DON`T CARE.
We`re dealing with what you claim to be our denial of 34 years and we`re doing it surprisingly well. But, after 58 years of denial maybe it your turn to get over the partition? It happened and it is here to stay.
Peace.
While the Pakistanis were waving the tricolour and congratulating the Indian supporters in lalaland, Pepsi India was coming up with ad campaigns that were derogatory to the Pakistan cricket team to widespread support from the Indian public.
But wait.. I thought this series was about dosti, jeet lo dil and all that other BS? I guess Indian public wasn`t down with the whole dosti shebang. Stupid delusional ``Pakis``.
``India won on the field, Pakistan off it, but cricket emerged as the real victor.``
Again, less of the cliches please. cricket will do all of jack shit to ``bring the people together``. In the awards ceremony after the match in Centurion in WC 2003, Indian supporters actually booed the Pakistan captain, Waqar Younis, who happens to be one of the all-time greatest cricket players and was playing his last tournament. Waqar sitll saw something funny in the situation and managed a smile. Tendulkar, the man who can do no wrong in the eyes of India, did not even have the grace or dignity to accept his man of the match award with some humility.
After the good old Pakistanis had bent over backwards for their Indian guests and been good, dignified losers (almost too good and too dignified for my taste) in the dosti series, the Pak team went over to India for the BCCI jubilee match. Salman Butt, a 20 year old, kid playing in only his 3rd or 4th game almost single-handedly won them the match. It was a special day. It marked the making of a new star and a cricket fan would have applauded the brilliant showing of this 20 year old who had beaten out physical and mental demons to lead his team to a win in a very good match of cricket. But instead Indian fans were busy mourning the one that got away. So, much for reciprocating jeet lo dil.
``That is because Karachi cannot be equated with Ahmedabad. Ahmedabad, they say, doesn’t witness the kind of sectarian and political violence that Karachi witnesses regularly.``
The first sentence made sense. The second one was shocking. Karachi has its problems but I will remind you that in Karachi, Hindu/Muslim mobs do not go out rampaging in the streets looking for Muslas/Baniyas to butcher respectively. Karachi does not see bloodshed in the scale of thousands taking place in the time of a few weeks. Besides, Karachi is the heart and soul of Pakistan and this is coming from a non-Karachiite. So, a comparsion of Karachi and Ahmedabad is ludicrous.
``And finally, if Pakistan does play in Ahmedabad, then the Great Pakistani Myth about life being dangerous for Indian Muslims in Gujarat will get absolutely punctured. That, as everybody knows, is simply not permitted in a country which is still in denial 34 years later about the realities and truths of East Pakistan/Bangladesh 1971. ``
I`m sorry but you really have to get over us. I mean as a Pakistani I couldn`t give a shit about what was going down in your country. You guys want to butcher your Muslims, please go ahead. Indian Muslims want to take revenge for Gujrat, please go ahead. WE DON`T CARE.
We`re dealing with what you claim to be our denial of 34 years and we`re doing it surprisingly well. But, after 58 years of denial maybe it your turn to get over the partition? It happened and it is here to stay.
Peace.
#7 Posted by veeresh on February 16, 2005 2:27:43 am
I agree with the Pakistani establishment`s assessment that Pakistan should not play in Ahmedabad for the following reasons:-
a) Good non-vegetarian food and alcohol appear to be the over-riding reasons for most Pakistanis to visit India, and Ahmedabad is sadly lacking in both. What will the average Pakistani journalist write about, then, if s/he can not do a proper junket? More than that, what will the Pakistani administration accompanying the team do with all their spare time?
b) Singapore Airlines has now got regular flights to Ahmedabad which go full all the time. This is unfair to Singapore Mark-II aka La,Hore. The Hidden La,Hore Hand strikes again!!
c) The Ahmedabad pitch is terribly boring, and it is not even time for Garba as yet. And if you`ve seen one Gujarati movie, you have seen them all, since they are about a man, two women and three goats. Even the Sarabhais have moved to classical dance forms.
d) And finally, if Pakistan does play in Ahmedabad, then the Great Pakistani Myth about life being dangerous for Indian Muslims in Gujarat will get absolutely punctured. That, as everybody knows, is simply not permitted in a country which is still in denial 34 years later about the realities and truths of East Pakistan/Bangladesh 1971.
All of these reasons can be ultra-important if pumped up OR can mean zilch if the organisers decide to give cricket fans regardless of origin their value for money.
Salil Kader, the difference between the Indian tour of Pakistan/2004 and the Pakistan tour of India/2005, is that Pakistan had to show to the world that it was able to host cricket matches. Nobody else was willing to come to Pakistan, remember? So, to some extent, the Indian visit was the ultimate in co-operation.
India does not have to prove anything to the world, of cricket and otherwise. Everything is open domain, and if somebody wishes to play cricket in assorted other semi-disputed arenas near Moreh/Burma border or Sir Creek/Pakistan Border or Nathu La/China Border, or in the Sunderbans/adjoining Bangladesh, well so be it.
On the other hand, the Pakistanis, especially their cricket board, were eminently well prepared in 2004 to host the cricket matches as well as to receive the Indian visitors, with everything streamlined from sale of tickets onwards. With first hand experience I can say that people got their money`s worth, whether they were from India or locals.
I don`t know how the BCCI is handling things right now, considering the state they are in. THAT is the big issue/problem, that seems to be getting deflected.
a) Good non-vegetarian food and alcohol appear to be the over-riding reasons for most Pakistanis to visit India, and Ahmedabad is sadly lacking in both. What will the average Pakistani journalist write about, then, if s/he can not do a proper junket? More than that, what will the Pakistani administration accompanying the team do with all their spare time?
b) Singapore Airlines has now got regular flights to Ahmedabad which go full all the time. This is unfair to Singapore Mark-II aka La,Hore. The Hidden La,Hore Hand strikes again!!
c) The Ahmedabad pitch is terribly boring, and it is not even time for Garba as yet. And if you`ve seen one Gujarati movie, you have seen them all, since they are about a man, two women and three goats. Even the Sarabhais have moved to classical dance forms.
d) And finally, if Pakistan does play in Ahmedabad, then the Great Pakistani Myth about life being dangerous for Indian Muslims in Gujarat will get absolutely punctured. That, as everybody knows, is simply not permitted in a country which is still in denial 34 years later about the realities and truths of East Pakistan/Bangladesh 1971.
All of these reasons can be ultra-important if pumped up OR can mean zilch if the organisers decide to give cricket fans regardless of origin their value for money.
Salil Kader, the difference between the Indian tour of Pakistan/2004 and the Pakistan tour of India/2005, is that Pakistan had to show to the world that it was able to host cricket matches. Nobody else was willing to come to Pakistan, remember? So, to some extent, the Indian visit was the ultimate in co-operation.
India does not have to prove anything to the world, of cricket and otherwise. Everything is open domain, and if somebody wishes to play cricket in assorted other semi-disputed arenas near Moreh/Burma border or Sir Creek/Pakistan Border or Nathu La/China Border, or in the Sunderbans/adjoining Bangladesh, well so be it.
On the other hand, the Pakistanis, especially their cricket board, were eminently well prepared in 2004 to host the cricket matches as well as to receive the Indian visitors, with everything streamlined from sale of tickets onwards. With first hand experience I can say that people got their money`s worth, whether they were from India or locals.
I don`t know how the BCCI is handling things right now, considering the state they are in. THAT is the big issue/problem, that seems to be getting deflected.
#6 Posted by indikad75 on February 14, 2005 5:13:48 am
Re: # 5
Thanks for the info Subroto! Cheers, Salil
Thanks for the info Subroto! Cheers, Salil
#5 Posted by subroto on February 14, 2005 4:05:53 am
#3 Farzana ``When did Hyderabad take over Bhopal?? (Or was Pataudi a closet Hyderabadi?) :) ``
Its like this jee :
Nawab of Pataudi
Full Name: Mansur Ali Khan Pataudi (Nawab of)
Born: 5 January 1941, Bhopal, Madhya Pradesh
Major Teams: Sussex, Oxford University, Delhi, Hyderabad, India.
Also Known As: M A K Pataudi
Batting Style: Right Hand Bat
Bowling Style: Right Arm Medium
And some Hyderabad stats
Team M I NO Runs H Avg C 50`s Ct
Hyderabad (India) 38 53 6 1650 198 35.10 5 4 19
Hyderabad XI 3 3 0 120 100 40.00 1 0 2
And he captained South Zone too!!
Its like this jee :
Nawab of Pataudi
Full Name: Mansur Ali Khan Pataudi (Nawab of)
Born: 5 January 1941, Bhopal, Madhya Pradesh
Major Teams: Sussex, Oxford University, Delhi, Hyderabad, India.
Also Known As: M A K Pataudi
Batting Style: Right Hand Bat
Bowling Style: Right Arm Medium
And some Hyderabad stats
Team M I NO Runs H Avg C 50`s Ct
Hyderabad (India) 38 53 6 1650 198 35.10 5 4 19
Hyderabad XI 3 3 0 120 100 40.00 1 0 2
And he captained South Zone too!!
#4 Posted by indikad75 on February 13, 2005 11:52:49 pm
Re: # 3
Farzana, reciprocation is most definitely a reference to hospitality off the field. Do you think the likes of Sehwag, Yuvraj, Dravid, Pathan, and Ganguly (and Sachin, if he plays) would give away matches sitting in that watercart singing ``yeh dosti..``? And all this just to carry on with the dosti theme? No Way!! And I am not even mildly suggesting we do it. The games will be well fought, no doubt about that and as an Indian I hope we win.
``If the reference is to hospitality, it will happen as a natural course ``
It might happen once the tour begins (though am keeping my fingers crossed and praying that we dont see a repeat of Eden Gardens 1999), but right now the hospitality isnt exactly visible Farzana.
Farzana, reciprocation is most definitely a reference to hospitality off the field. Do you think the likes of Sehwag, Yuvraj, Dravid, Pathan, and Ganguly (and Sachin, if he plays) would give away matches sitting in that watercart singing ``yeh dosti..``? And all this just to carry on with the dosti theme? No Way!! And I am not even mildly suggesting we do it. The games will be well fought, no doubt about that and as an Indian I hope we win.
``If the reference is to hospitality, it will happen as a natural course ``
It might happen once the tour begins (though am keeping my fingers crossed and praying that we dont see a repeat of Eden Gardens 1999), but right now the hospitality isnt exactly visible Farzana.
#3 Posted by FarzanaVersey on February 13, 2005 11:25:08 pm
I do not like the subhead ``Time for India to reciprocate``. This is a competitive game. It is about winning and losing. If the reference is to hospitality, it will happen as a natural course (remember that India toured Pak at the height of the `yeh dosti hum nahin chhodenge` phase); if it is about politics, then both sides are playing it. Pakistan is reacting petulantly simply because India had earlier refused Karachi; fair enough. The Shiv Sena is busy planning its pitch-digging strategy...does it matter?
But should Pakistan win the series and you get to hear that ``India let them win``, you must take it on the chin for this was what Indians had to listen to the last time. Just part of the reciprocation deal!
- - -
#1 by kabuliwallah:
[As a Hyderabadi I`m proud of our Pataudis, Jaisimhas, Azhars and Laxmans and our floodlit stadium.]
When did Hyderabad take over Bhopal?? (Or was Pataudi a closet Hyderabadi?) :)
But should Pakistan win the series and you get to hear that ``India let them win``, you must take it on the chin for this was what Indians had to listen to the last time. Just part of the reciprocation deal!
- - -
#1 by kabuliwallah:
[As a Hyderabadi I`m proud of our Pataudis, Jaisimhas, Azhars and Laxmans and our floodlit stadium.]
When did Hyderabad take over Bhopal?? (Or was Pataudi a closet Hyderabadi?) :)
#2 Posted by indikad75 on February 13, 2005 11:04:43 pm
Re: # 1
Bhai, I am sure once the stadium at Uppal gets ready we too will have matches of high quality here in Hyderabadi. As a Hyderabadi I second your opinion about us having more matches here. However, Ahmedabad has created some great results despite the quality of pitches prepared there.
We played in Karachi and Peshawar coz we were willing to play the shorter version there. If the Pakis are not keen even on a onedayer at A`bad then lets leave it at that. Its like this: A`bad is not a symbol of Indian sovereignty or honour. The Pakis are playing in 7 other centres and these cities/grounds are as representative of India as A`bad. My contention is that we not attach too much importance to one cricketing centre and ditch the politics.
Thanks for your comments brother.
Bhai, I am sure once the stadium at Uppal gets ready we too will have matches of high quality here in Hyderabadi. As a Hyderabadi I second your opinion about us having more matches here. However, Ahmedabad has created some great results despite the quality of pitches prepared there.
We played in Karachi and Peshawar coz we were willing to play the shorter version there. If the Pakis are not keen even on a onedayer at A`bad then lets leave it at that. Its like this: A`bad is not a symbol of Indian sovereignty or honour. The Pakis are playing in 7 other centres and these cities/grounds are as representative of India as A`bad. My contention is that we not attach too much importance to one cricketing centre and ditch the politics.
Thanks for your comments brother.
#1 Posted by kabuliwallah on February 13, 2005 10:30:55 pm
``The BJP led NDA had no qualms about asking Pakistan to change fixtures during the 2004 tour.``
``In 2004 we were not happy about playing in Karachi and Peshawar and they gracefully granted our wish.``
Kader Bhai,
we did play in Karachi and Peshawar. ODIs maybe, but we did play. In the same spirit PCB, could relent and play in Ahmedabad, if not a test, then a ODI.
The entire drama is, was and will be ridiculous if you ask me. Punjab is the cradle of fundamentalism and anti-Indian army in Pakistan. Yet we played 3 ODIs and 3 tests in Punjab. But we had qualms about playing in Karachi (where most people have relatives in India) and Peshawar.
In a way I`m glad PCB is against playing in Ahmedabad, not for political reasons, but for cricketing reasons. Ahmedabad pitch is one of the flattest and boring pitches in the country and most of the matches there end in a draw. Yet almost every series played in India, Ahmedabad is alloted one test match. On top of that the other two stadiums in Gujarat, Rajkot and Baroda are given at least one one-dayer. Gujarat gets more than its fair share of matches and it is about time other centres in the country that have actually produced cricketers (Pathan is a recent phenomenon and we`ve only had mediocre wicketkeepers) like Hyderabad and Bangalore get more matches. As a Hyderabadi I`m proud of our Pataudis, Jaisimhas, Azhars and Laxmans and our floodlit stadium. Yet Hyderabad is not a test center. We rarely even get a ODI.
Anyways, heres to hoping for a cracker of a series. Best regards
Kabuli
``In 2004 we were not happy about playing in Karachi and Peshawar and they gracefully granted our wish.``
Kader Bhai,
we did play in Karachi and Peshawar. ODIs maybe, but we did play. In the same spirit PCB, could relent and play in Ahmedabad, if not a test, then a ODI.
The entire drama is, was and will be ridiculous if you ask me. Punjab is the cradle of fundamentalism and anti-Indian army in Pakistan. Yet we played 3 ODIs and 3 tests in Punjab. But we had qualms about playing in Karachi (where most people have relatives in India) and Peshawar.
In a way I`m glad PCB is against playing in Ahmedabad, not for political reasons, but for cricketing reasons. Ahmedabad pitch is one of the flattest and boring pitches in the country and most of the matches there end in a draw. Yet almost every series played in India, Ahmedabad is alloted one test match. On top of that the other two stadiums in Gujarat, Rajkot and Baroda are given at least one one-dayer. Gujarat gets more than its fair share of matches and it is about time other centres in the country that have actually produced cricketers (Pathan is a recent phenomenon and we`ve only had mediocre wicketkeepers) like Hyderabad and Bangalore get more matches. As a Hyderabadi I`m proud of our Pataudis, Jaisimhas, Azhars and Laxmans and our floodlit stadium. Yet Hyderabad is not a test center. We rarely even get a ODI.
Anyways, heres to hoping for a cracker of a series. Best regards
Kabuli
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