India Through Pakistani Eyes

Re: # 501
INDIA IS BUILDING HER MILITARY POTENTIAL BECAUSE:
#1 INDIA IS DEVELOPING AS A FORMIDABLE ECNOMIC POWER.

#2 SHE DOES NOT LIMIT HERSELF TO THE SUB-CONTINENT AND WANTS TO BE A KEY GLOBAL POWER.

#3 SHE IS THE SECOND-MOST POPULOUS COUNTRY IN THE WORLD. HER SECURITY CONCERNS SHOULD DEFINETLY TAKE INTO ACCOUNT HER ENORMOUS POPULATION.

#4 INDIA IS NOT STUCK IN ONLY A PARTICULAR TIME FRAME, UNLIKE PAKISTAN. SHE WANTS TO BE AN INDEPENDENT, DEVELOPED ECONOMIC AND POLITICAL POWER, THUS, MAKING THE WEST SIT UP AND TAKE NOTICE OF THE NEW INDIA.

#5 INDIA HAS A DOCTRINE OF DEFENCE AND NEVER OF OFFENCE.

#5 BEING A DEMOCRATIC AND FREE COUNTRY WITH A PAST HISTORY OF ENSLAVEMENT OF NEARLY 200 YEARS, IT DOES NOT HAVE ANY TERRITORIAL AMBITIONS AGAINST ANY COUNTRY.

#6 HER SECURITY HAS BEEN COMPROMISED THREE TIMES IN HER HISTORY OF 58 YEARS OF INDEPENDENT EXISTENCE.

#7 SHE HAS BEEN PLAGUED BY TERRORISM AND INSURGENTS FOR THE PAST 20 YEARS.

AND SAYING SO, I INTERACT FOR THE FIRST TIME. GREETINGS TO ALL.

HP #553

`` Sheesh! Tahmed don’t wake them up from their dreams. The Chaddi brigade really has the illusion that India is as rich as the US.

They forget that only 2.5% Indians have their own car/jeep/vans of all kinds, only 13% owns motorcycles, 43% population is proud of their bicycles, and rest of the population is still happy with Bullock carts as their primary mode of transportation.
70% of the population still lives in villages and a majority in extreme poverty. 50% of poor Asians live in India. ``

India is still poor. But India is advancing on all fronts. They are not begging anyone for handouts.

rsridhar #589,
What a sensible and thoughtful proposal. I think that Pakistan should accept it. I think that you have the interests of Kashmiris at heart. I agree with you and hope that something like this can be implemented soon. Thanks.

re:#574 by haroonellahi
You are too quick to jump to conclusions. Did u read my posts on trade prospects between the 2 countries and how there is no need for confrontation at all? Trade can create a vested interest for peace that one can build upon in future.
The problem is not Pakistanis. The problem is your Army brass. It has huge stakes and it will ensure those are protected before suing for peace with India.
Sridhar

re:#576 by haroonellahi
(I challenge you to create proposal, which is different.....)
I have talked about this in this very forum. Perhaps u did not pay heed.
Here are the propasals.
1. Complete cessatoin of hostilities, jehad, infiltration into Indian Kashmir by Pakistan
2. Gradual withdrawal of Indian troops in a stepwise manner after confirming # 1 is working
3. Substantial autonomy to Pakistani and Indian Kashmir
4. Establishment of train, bus services across the LOC (a bus service has just started; this should be expanded to other modes)
5. Establishment of local governments in respective states (it already exists in India but not in POK)
Final goal:
The 2 kashmirs to be eventually merged as India and Pak slowly give away control to the Kashmiris.
I can see India doing the above in the next 20 years or so. I do not see Pak doing even the first step. Wanna bet?
Sridhar

haroonellahi #535

`` Avenger, you are a disgrace. I thought one day you would allow your political biases to die out and become friendly, but all you do is become more violent each time I interact with you.

I do not have any intention to interact with you any more. Please try not to respond to my posts.``

The internet gives a cloak of anonymity that causes ppl to behave a lot differently.

`` Rsridhar, Kargil is under the bridge. That time era was completely different and the ground realities are quite different now too. Both sides need to be flexible. I realize that a plebliscite would be unrealistic for India, but Pakistan accepting the current situation would be unrealistic for Pakistan.

Based on those grounds, both parties should try to create solutions which offer face-saving dignified solutions.

For some reason, Indians from India`s majority religious community attain some sort of sadistic pleasure by denying Pakistan a dignified exist from the problem.``

Why should India give Pakistan a dignified exit from the problem ? What is Pakistan willing to give in return ?

Pakistani Army initiated the 1965, 1971 and 1999 wars. They are going to have to renounce military methods and back it up with deeds. No Indian leader is going to take any Pakistani general at their word.

I can suggest a few things -
1. end anti-Indian and anti-Hindu propaganda in the media and education system. It can apply to India to some degree.
2. move to a more pluralist form of government - more powers for Sindhis, Baluchis, Pusthuns
3. stop inviting USA and China to meddle in your backyard
4. end support for Taliban stlye political movements. Kick out any remnants of the Al Qaeda.
5. Increase economic co-operation with India, Iran and Central Asia. Transit for Indian goods and gas pipelines are good projects in the long run.

#576 by haroonellahi on February 27, 2005 9:51am PT


I challenge you to create proposal, which is different from India`s stance and Pakistan`s stance.


I challenge you to open your eyes and accept the reality..India isn`t going to accept any change in the status quo..except (maybe) to the extent that it agrees to convert the LoC into an International Border....If you care about the Kashmiris so much, you can offer them asylum...

This isn`t about what any one of us wants....This is about the will of the majority of people in India...hindu and muslim alike....

#582 by haroonellahi on February 27, 2005 11:46am PT


Why do you Indians want conflict?


3 out of 4 conflicts were started by Pakistan...


Pakistan is a MUCH more progressive state as compared with India when it comes to such Issues.


Uh-huh....sure..kill millions of bangladeshis and declare yourself progressive. Create the taliban and force it down the throats of the afghans and declare yourself progressive....

Re: # 583

Thanks for the offer. But I am not a politician, hence my views will be the same, irrespective the of where I air them.

#582 by haroonellahi
``You failed to answer me. You just like to evade everything I saw``

I purposely didn`t answer, because we will be just reinventing the wheel. Please point out where I have evaded you.

``Pakistan is a MUCH more progressive state as compared with India when it comes to such Issues. You guys consider it some sort of sick and sadistic pride for your majority religion which the Muslims of India humbled again and again.``

yeah thats right. So whats the problem in accepting LoC as the IB. Progressive, hence you have no problem relating kashmir with religion. Thats your problem, you have been taught how Islam for several centuries have humbled the hindus and its a pity that the Ghazi warriors have been losing land to the infidels whereas the manipulative hindoos have annexed/invaded other lands too. Kashmir with continue to a bone of contention until pakis think along that line. Its just plain truth.

#572 by haroonellahi

``Netizen, it is not about the money. It is the principle. ``

Its about land, territorial possessions. Does Pakistan think itself as modern-day Robinhood? So what is Pakistan going to do next? Ask China to be ``flexible`` wrt Sinkiang, Tibet and send its navy to defend Taiwan.
Talking about principles, where were you when pakistan in order to escape whipping disowned Taliban. And now is gunning for them.

Netizen, if you use MSN, add me. It is easier to use logic, and be more flexible in closed environments.

youthparliament@hotmail.com

You failed to answer me. You just like to evade everything I saw. Why don`t you answer me? Why do you Indians want conflict? Why can`t you get out of your old mindsets?

Pakistan is a MUCH more progressive state as compared with India when it comes to such Issues. You guys consider it some sort of sick and sadistic pride for your majority religion which the Muslims of India humbled again and again.

Now go build that flying horse, then you can use it as a pretext to attack the stinky Pakistanis.

haroonellahi

You continue to rant and rave, its not going to make any difference. A elephant walking on the street is never bothered by barking dogs. All your posts show your and your compatriots frustation and impotence. India should look beyond Kashmir and Pakistan. Already enough time and energy has been wasted on it. You continue to be a cry baby, it doesn`t affect us. Maybe in another 50 years Pakistan will climb down from ``flexibility`` to ``status quo`` as it has done from ``plebiscite`` to ``flexibililty``.

Vivek, since you Indians are so patriotic, you have always held the views of your government right?

Vivek, apparently you did not read what I said properly. I said please enumerate a different proposal which gives a different solution to the problem.

kardesh #561,
BuffaloWW bar I was refering to is actually in Kentucky, in case you come to this part of USA, I would be happy to meet you.