India Through Pakistani Eyes

Opposite sexes in schools and colleges intermingles as far back as I remember and in public too. I used to sit with girls in school. We were always paired with opposite sex. My most memorable fights were with girls. I am a unique person. This is more than 2 decades back. I went to a public school and the standard was really high. I did much better in US where kids in the same grade were far less educated.

We did participate in science projects back then, and participated in at least one competition/year.

Superstitions and beliefs permeate every society. There are `ghost busters`, tarrot card readers etc. in US who run successful businesses. Pakstanis also visit peers, taveets, and such superstitions.

I don`t know about rest of India, in Punjab, the castes do inter marry. The refrain and tension comes only when a shudar or another low caste is involved.

This is a fairly good example of how education makes no difference to the pak perceptions. The learned prof starts of by stating that he is going to report on what he saw, but knows that people in kashmir and north east are not patriotic even though he did not visit those places. he did not see the most fundamental difference, there are no M16 carrying police on the roads, he did not meet any generals as vice chancellors of the universities, he did not see that the most endowed educational institutions are not military owned, he did not see the free movement of women in the streets of india, he did not see the women on two wheelers in bangalore.

The last sentence takes the cake,

``Will India`s leadership have the wisdom to arrive at some reasonable accommodation on Kashmir, cease obsessive militarization, and divert resources to pressing social needs? These larger issues, and not just advances in science and technology, will decide just how high India can rise.``

So, indoias future depends settling the kashmir dispute. The little prof does not realise that it is true for pakistan only, and that is the reason that pak military keeps the kashmir issue boiling. he does not recognise that the kargill invasion was a panic reaction by the pak military because of the fears of peace following lahore declaration. Prof, take it from me, indias future is no way linked to kashmir.

I wish Mr Hoodbhoy would have avoided propagating his views which were not related to this particular trip:

-``(except in Kashmir, and parts of the North East)``
Did he visit KAsmir or the North East?

-``The jyoti (astrologer) dictates the dates when a marriage is possible, and even whether a couple can marry at all.``
Did he attempt to get married?

-`` be spared the marginalization that accompanies globalization?``
please, most Indian`s have only seen a positive fallout from globalization.

-``these larger issues, and not just advances in science and technology, will decide just how high India can rise``
Conclusion: India may be doing better in a few areas, but countryman we have nothing to fear, it indicates nothing. Kinda reflects the worldview of the Pakistani elite. In this instance Hoodbhoy is no different than Hamid Gul !

//....Will India`s leadership have the wisdom to arrive at some reasonable accommodation on Kashmir, .... These larger issues, and not just advances in science and technology, will decide just how high India can rise...//

Classic - the typical paki bullsh!t. Your ``pakistani eye`` needs to shed some of the delusional glasses. Kashmir has nothing to do with Indias economic advancement. It`s all about advances in technology, infrastructure, governance, law-and-order ..... and giving the jack-a$$ commies boots in their rear-ends so that they stop interfering in flow of FDI. That`s how india is going to rise.

It`s unbelievable - no matter how learned and liberal a paki is, he never forgets to wear his blinkers on kashmir. 60 years has gone by - but pakis` kashmir song has never changed - it`s the same old song: Give us the Kashmir , or else. Accomdate kashmir otherwise your advancement will stop. Kashmir is the ``larger issue``, the ``core issue`` blah, blah .....

Shame!!!

> I was a little jolted upon reading Nehru`s words, written in stone at the entrance to the Jawaharlal Nehru Institute for Advanced Research in Bangalore: ``I too have worshipped at the shrine of science``. The notion of ``worship`` and ``shrine of science`` do not go well with the modern science and the scientific temper. Science is about challenging, not worshipping.
>

I think hood boy misses the forest in counting the trees.

Even great mathematician of 20th century Ramanujan used to mention that the Goddess of Namakkal appeared to him in his dreams and presented him with the incredible formulae. This attitude of humbleness and treating one`s gifts merely as gifts is the civilizational trait which dhobi ka kuttas (na ghar ka na ghat ka) do not understand. This probably kept the inspirational stream of consciiousness flowing in him. You could see the same in Aishwarya Rai`s CBS 60 minutes when she said ``this all`` is outer covering and that she felt guilty for all the attention in front of Ganesh.

When hood boys and meera nairs are interpreters of east for west then God help west. This is Americas folly in the Iraq. Suit-booted hood boys, Meera Nairs, canadian ediotic girl Mehta, Jinnahas, and Agha Khans are just that Chalu Chalabis and Alawis.

An Indian mind can make the math into deity so that it becomes a devotional sadhana. A cobbler has his deity.

Someone on this board talked about devdasi and compared it prostitution. It might have degenerated into one in few cases. But does this lady know that Mangeshkar clan is devdasi clan? Even Pawars are in this generation? Who can match their zest for life and success? One politician, another chemical industrialist and third a media baron with MBA from Wharton., one of the grand daughter of their devdasi mother will get Magasasay award. These folks do not know what they are talking when they equate devadasi to prostitution. These ediots will call Kunti ... because she invoked devas and Shakti because she prayed ParamBrmha.

Anyway! Carry on! It`s all smoke of zolliwallas chatting in a ``ethnic`` chat-house over a Rs 80 cup of joe...

BTW enlighten Indians with your interpretation of events and how re-legions can be dessimated in the subcontinent by visiting
http://www.bharat-rakshak.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=993&start=40&sid=dc02a05b8250ea586c0da2b12f0aec9a

Esp comment on India (actually the real world) which was ``discovered`` by Nehru: From above link

External affairs minister K. Natwar Singh, in his ``12th Lal Bahadur Shastri Memorial Lecture`` (The Asian Age, The Op-Ed Page, February 4, 5 and 6), typical of a loyal Congressman, has seemingly RSS (established 1925) and BJP (established 1980) to blame for 1,200 years of bad blood between Muslims and Hindus. Will this problem vanish from India, let alone the subcontinent, if the Sangh Parivar and the BJP cease to exist tomorrow? Is that likely when Buddhism, the religion of peace, disappeared from India in the 13th century before the Islamic sword, and Gandhiji failed to make Muslims walk alongside him?

But perhaps he had forgotten when Pakistan attacked India in 1965, the then Prime Minister Lal Bahadur Shastri personally rang up the RSS chief Guru Golwalkar in Maharashtra and invited him for the All-Leaders Conference. In Delhi, for the entire period of 22 days of war, traffic control was transferred to the swayamsevaks to free the police for more pressing tasks.

The admittedly pro-Communist and RSS-baiter Jawaharlal Nehru, realised his folly in the twilight of his life during the 1962 Indo-China war. Nehru, in recognition of the Sangh’s services, invited the RSS contingent to take part in the Republic Day parade of 1963. It proves that even Congressmen know whom to rely upon during times of such national crisis.

Mr Singh, of course, is selective in the recall of history. After the crushing of the 1857 uprising, a golden moment in the Hindu-Muslim relations in the subcontinent, the British resorted to the policy of divide and rule. While Hindus mostly ignored their overtures, the bulk of the Muslims fell for the bait, hook, line and sinker. On March 16, 1888, at Meerut, Sir Sayyid Ahmed Khan (founder of Aligarh Muslim University, the ``epic`` centre of partition) spoke of ``our Mohammedan nation`` and divided the country into ``Muslim nation`` and ``Hindu nation.`` On October 1, 1906 at Shimla, Aga Khan, at the head of a Muslim delegation, put two demands to Viceroy Lord Minto — Muslims should be represented by Muslims and the representation should be in excess of their numerical strength. Only two months later, in December 1906, the Muslim League was born in Dacca.

the onething which stares out from this report is that Hoodbhoy has made an effort at undestanding some aspects of India. However, what I find extremely interesting are a few points he makes

(a) He says the universities and collegs are open, independent thought is encouraged and there is no discrimination against muslims in India.

(b) Hyderabad in India has more muslims who are conservative than a comparable muslim population in Pakistan.

(c) He has visited a number of parts of India - and has commented upon them. He has not visited other parts and commented on them as well (atleast his itenary suggests that he has not visited those parts).

(d) But, as an outsider (neither a pakistani nor an Indian)I find it extremely interesting the last statement he makes. In fact in a seminar in SOAS a point was made by a professor (not a desi ) that in the ultimate analysis Pakistan`s will always use the weapon of blackmail (blackmail India directly and the west indirectly) to try and get what it wants - since the nation has never ever invested in a system which would generate wealth within itself. Indeed the statement Hoodbhoy makes ``Will India`s leadership have the wisdom to arrive at some reasonable accommodation on Kashmir, cease obsessive militarization, and divert resources to pressing social needs? These larger issues, and not just advances in science and technology, will decide just how high India can rise.`` is revealing.

On the whole one gets the idea the Hoobhoy enjoyed his stay in India and seems to have sort of liked it to a certain extent. I too hope to go there one day to see what is happening there.

jay thackeray:

Prof, take it from me, indias future is no way linked to kashmir.

...perhaps...maybe...if you say so;)


but you`d do well to ponder...that being direct neighbours...if pakistan burns india cannot escape from smoke inhalation...

rgds

t

Very well written article. And based on an extensive visit to India, covering a large number of educational institutions as well as discussions with a number of people including the president. Well balanced and informative.

# 7Mr t: I am surprised you still bother to read Thakeray posts. Things must be getting very dull in Canada. ;-) How about your views (in urdu shaeri, if you wish) about the article - which is a substantial one as I mention above.

#6 dash it, dot sahib! you are neither indian nor pakistani you say. As Falstaff would say, you are neither fish nor foul nor good wine. (just trying to be funny.).

#7 temporal that is the expectation from Pakistan - that is what everyone is led to beleive. If I heard the prof from SOAS correctly not every one believes that this will be the case.
People though the same about the balkans. What happened - the neighbours were fairly insulated and nothing much spilt over. The same was true of the fromer USSR again the neighbours gained in a manner of speaking!

from what I have read and heard India is better able to withstand these inhalations than Pakistan would be burning.

We are all living in a fools world if the thoughts are only in that direction. Every country keeps a contingency plan ready - what that plan is only time and events will tell. What we read regarding those plans is just plain speculation and more akjn to the famous Indian Rope trick (everyone has heard of it but no one has seen it!)

#9 TAhmed32 - 6 dash it, dot sahib! you are neither indian nor pakistani you say. As Falstaff would say, you are neither fish nor foul nor good wine. (just trying to be funny.).

You missed out something though - fowl! I am glad I am a chicken in this instance.

temp
//...if pakistan burns india cannot escape from smoke inhalation...//

Yeah - that`s what you guys have been threatening for so long. Give us kashmir - or else we will burn. That`s just blackmail. And it ain`t working.

Anycase - I don`t think pakistan is going to burn. Even if it does - there is hardly anything indians can do about that - except for stocking up gas masks :)

mohar11 and dotdash:

sorry buds

you guys are misreading me

...like it or not...we are direct neighbours...and imho the fallout from one`s misery cannot be contained or effectively insulated...whether it is india or the mighty US...

...if the sub-continent is dharti-ma we are parts of the body...and if one part becomes cancerous it cannot be surgically removed and patient declared fit...

rgds

t

ps: t ahmed

shaeri i-log per kartay haiN

waisay kal nasah kay jawab main kehnay walay thay such kehdooN aye musalmaaN gar tu bura na maanay;)